Making a will to cover UK assets

[NACHALUAY]

Maybe this has been covered on one of the subforums. my apologies if this is the case

I am British, living in Thailand, legally married to a Thai,

I wish to make a will that will cover my UK assets.  Any advice,  avoiding pitfalls, etc would be appreciated.

[ubonjoe]

This topic might have the answer to your question.

 

[gk10002000]

Legal zoom was used by my sister to make her USA will online.  Very simple assets to account for.  I mention them because they are online and are cheap and easy.  I submit there may be something similar available for UK residents and you can complete matters online.

[Eff1n2ret]

There aren't really any major pitfalls. You need 2 wills, one made in Thailand  to cover your assets in Thailand, and one in the UK for your assets there. Mine includes a simple clause saying it refers only to my assets in "England and Wales", which I'm having to alter because I opened a savings account in the Channel Islands a few months ago. Obviously if you have assets in Scotland or Northern Ireland, you will need advice about the legal requirements in those areas. 

I don't know anything about online will-making services, but it shouldn't be difficult to contact a solicitor in whichever area you deem appropriate. You need to consider whom you wish to appoint as executor(s).

[KNJ]

7 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

There aren't really any major pitfalls. You need 2 wills, one made in Thailand  to cover your assets in Thailand, and one in the UK for your assets there. Mine includes a simple clause saying it refers only to my assets in "England and Wales", which I'm having to alter because I opened a savings account in the Channel Islands a few months ago. Obviously if you have assets in Scotland or Northern Ireland, you will need advice about the legal requirements in those areas. 

I don't know anything about online will-making services, but it shouldn't be difficult to contact a solicitor in whichever area you deem appropriate. You need to consider whom you wish to appoint as executor(s).

I would recommend a third one for the channel Islands in your case. Not the original question, but maybe applicable

[orientalist]

You can make one will in Thailand to cover Thai assets and one in the UK to cover assets everywhere except Thailand. Make sure the second will doesn't contain the standard clause about invalidating all previous wills.

[Jip99]

I would cross-reference the 2 separate Wills... i.e. "I have a separate Will covering assets in Thailand and this Will solely relates to UK assets....".

 

 

Probate in Jersey etc can be a nightmare and costly, as I recall they will not accept UK (or Thai) Probate.

[orientalist]

My UK lawyer told me not to reference the other will. His reason was that I might never get around to writing it, or it might get lost, etc.

[stanleycoin]

28 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

I would cross-reference the 2 separate Wills... i.e. "I have a separate Will covering assets in Thailand and this Will solely relates to UK assets....".

 

 

Probate in Jersey etc can be a nightmare and costly, as I recall they will not accept UK (or Thai) Probate.

Oh,   about Jersey,  is the Isle of man any better, i got an account there as well ?

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

Oh,   about Jersey,  is the Isle of man any better, i got an account there as well ?

 

 

I think para 23 refers.

 

 

https://www.gov.im/lib/docs/courtservice/Probate/informationbooklet.pdf

 

 

 

More here about Jersey:-

 

https://www.gov.je/government/nonexeclegal/judicialgreffe/sections/probateregistry/pages/grantnondomicile.aspx

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Jip99

[stanleycoin]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think para 23 refers.

 

 

https://www.gov.im/lib/docs/courtservice/Probate/informationbooklet.pdf

 

Thanks for that.

[simoh1490]

Yes, one will for Thailand and one for the UK, cross reference them both in each will and state clearly that each covers only assets in the territory the will is issued and specifically excludes assets located in the other territory.

[wirat69]

Just be doubly sure that the Will terms are clear, 'cos it is easy to incorporate ambiguities.... and ensure that the execution of the Will is done in strict compliance with the relative law(s) (usually 2 independent people present at ALL times during the signing and witnessing).....

[alant]

I have one here and one in the UK where I am told the England and Wales bit is our correct nationality. (I asked about why this was not therefore used on passports but got no clear response.)

Not really expecting problems as neither party talks to the other it seems.

[12DrinkMore]

This whole issue of wills and inheritance tax is clouded by UK incompetence and confusion, and revolves around where you are deemed to be domiciled.

 

If the taxman reckons you were UK domiciled at the time of death, then all you worldwide assets fall under inheritance tax. Which would mean the executor of your estate has a huge headache. I suppose he could "ignore" assets outside the UK, but there is way to much connectivity between various authorities and banks nowadays.

 

To get you started here is the 103 page document, which may help you.....

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547118/160803_RDR3_August2016_v2_0final_078500.pdf

 

Good luck with the automatic test and the sufficiency test.................

 

 

[Lannathaijohn]

With regard to UK Inheritance Tax, it is worth noting that inheritances are exempt from tax if less than £325,000 or if left to your husband or wife as applicable.

My advice in all cases is to have cross referenced Wills (I now have 1 in each of Thailand, England & Wales and Dubai ) prepared and copies kept with your lawyers.

 

 

[Boyblue]

I am a UK Will writer with 20 years experience in UK and overseas Wills and Probate. I don't like on-line Wills as there is no proof that the person completing the form is actually the person who the Will is for. There are two tests when taking instructions for a Will. 1. does the person have the capacity to give and understand the instructions. and 2. is the person giving the instructions for the Will actually the person for whom the Will is being made "The Testator" neither of these can be done with an online Will and therefore is fraught with danger. A UK Will is valid in the UK, you also need a Will for any Asset you hold outside of the UK, This includes the Channel Islands. I am originally from Jersey and know that a UK Will is not valid in the Channel Islands. Currently you can add a "overseas property" clause in your Will that will cover Assets in the EU, and only require Probate being done in the UK and a certified copy can be used in the EU. this may change in the future depending on "Brexit" but it shouldn't change Wills made before any change. happy to give advice if required. you can find me on Facebook or PM me here. Terry

[Boyblue]

if you have three Wills, UK, Thailand and anywhere else, make sure there is a "non revocation" clause in each Will, or the last Will you sign will Revoke all Previous Wills, so you end up with one Will and two revoked.....

 

[Baerboxer]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:42 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

There aren't really any major pitfalls. You need 2 wills, one made in Thailand  to cover your assets in Thailand, and one in the UK for your assets there. Mine includes a simple clause saying it refers only to my assets in "England and Wales", which I'm having to alter because I opened a savings account in the Channel Islands a few months ago. Obviously if you have assets in Scotland or Northern Ireland, you will need advice about the legal requirements in those areas. 

I don't know anything about online will-making services, but it shouldn't be difficult to contact a solicitor in whichever area you deem appropriate. You need to consider whom you wish to appoint as executor(s).

 

Your lawyers will advise you but my understanding is the inheritance laws in the Channel Islands have some marked differences to the Law of England & Wales. Around the granting of probate for one.

 

You might want to consider making accounts there joint which would ease things (assuming you want to leave it to your spouse). 

 

To the OP -

 

all the advise I've taken here and in the UK recommends two separate wills. One for each country. That means two lawyers, and two executors. Again the advice I've had suggests a Thai national or fluent Thai speaker at least is better for the Thai will executor.  Inheritance laws are quite different here to the UK so it is much safer to make those wills rather than die intestate and hope it goes where you want!

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Your lawyers will advise you but my understanding is the inheritance laws in the Channel Islands have some marked differences to the Law of England & Wales. Around the granting of probate for one.

 

You might want to consider making accounts there joint which would ease things (assuming you want to leave it to your spouse). 

 

To the OP -

 

all the advise I've taken here and in the UK recommends two separate wills. One for each country. That means two lawyers, and two executors. Again the advice I've had suggests a Thai national or fluent Thai speaker at least is better for the Thai will executor.  Inheritance laws are quite different here to the UK so it is much safer to make those wills rather than die intestate and hope it goes where you want!

 

 

 

+1

[Eff1n2ret]

29 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Your lawyers will advise you but my understanding is the inheritance laws in the Channel Islands have some marked differences to the Law of England & Wales. Around the granting of probate for one.

I am indeed awaiting advice, but having looked on the Guernsey Bar website:-

http://www.guernseybar.com/services/private-client/wills-and-probate.aspx

 

it does include the statement:-

"most banks will pay out without sight of probate where the amount involved is relatively small." I suspect my nest-egg would be deemed "relatively small" compared with the sums alleged to be held in such "tax havens", but perhaps it's worth asking the bank - and also ask them whether a will made in England which includes assets in the Channel Islands would be accepted by them, whatever the amount.

 

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I am indeed awaiting advice, but having looked on the Guernsey Bar website:-

http://www.guernseybar.com/services/private-client/wills-and-probate.aspx

 

it does include the statement:-

"most banks will pay out without sight of probate where the amount involved is relatively small." I suspect my nest-egg would be deemed "relatively small" compared with the sums alleged to be held in such "tax havens", but perhaps it's worth asking the bank - and also ask them whether a will made in England which includes assets in the Channel Islands would be accepted by them, whatever the amount.

 

 

Do check with your bank. My amount wasn't vast and the bank manager at the time, a Jersey born and bred national, strongly advised me to make the accounts all joint, which I did.

 

If you don't want to do that, then just ensure that your instructions are clear and appropriate. Given the way banks are going with more and more inflexible bureaucracy, I wouldn't put much faith in them paying out unless it was very insignificant amounts.

[Chongalulu]

Give very careful consideration to whom you appoint as executor. There was an article in Times money section about the enormous fees for relatively simple work that solicitors or banks can charge - it can be tens of thousands of pounds and you have little recourse to complain given the authority an executor has over the estate. I doubt your Thai wife could do it but if you have a family member who is a reasonably competent administrator it’s not that difficult for a fairly uncomplicated will  ( I acted as executor for both my mothers and sisters wills ) and there is lots of help both on line and from the uk probate office. Firms offer free or cheap  wills but that’s not where they make their money,it’s getting you to appoint them as executor.

[gk10002000]

One poster mentioned Probate.  Back in the late 50s to early 60s, in the USA there was a big thick book called "How to Avoid Probate".  It was a best seller and I remember my parents having a copy.  I used to read through it as a kid.  In retrospect it was kind of funny because my relatives did not have any money and my parents certainly didn't.  

[Jonmarleesco]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:42 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

There aren't really any major pitfalls. You need 2 wills, one made in Thailand  to cover your assets in Thailand, and one in the UK for your assets there. Mine includes a simple clause saying it refers only to my assets in "England and Wales", which I'm having to alter because I opened a savings account in the Channel Islands a few months ago. Obviously if you have assets in Scotland or Northern Ireland, you will need advice about the legal requirements in those areas. 

I don't know anything about online will-making services, but it shouldn't be difficult to contact a solicitor in whichever area you deem appropriate. You need to consider whom you wish to appoint as executor(s).

'... which I'm having to alter because I opened a savings account in the Channel Islands ...' The CIs utilise French law as well as English. 

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I am indeed awaiting advice, but having looked on the Guernsey Bar website:-

http://www.guernseybar.com/services/private-client/wills-and-probate.aspx

 

it does include the statement:-

"most banks will pay out without sight of probate where the amount involved is relatively small." I suspect my nest-egg would be deemed "relatively small" compared with the sums alleged to be held in such "tax havens", but perhaps it's worth asking the bank - and also ask them whether a will made in England which includes assets in the Channel Islands would be accepted by them, whatever the amount.

 

 

 

A Will requires Probate in all but the minimal of circumstances.

 

De-minimis limits for paying out just on the strength an unproven Will are likely to be very small.

[JAS21]

3 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I am indeed awaiting advice, but having looked on the Guernsey Bar website:-

http://www.guernseybar.com/services/private-client/wills-and-probate.aspx

 

it does include the statement:-

"most banks will pay out without sight of probate where the amount involved is relatively small." I suspect my nest-egg would be deemed "relatively small" compared with the sums alleged to be held in such "tax havens", but perhaps it's worth asking the bank - and also ask them whether a will made in England which includes assets in the Channel Islands would be accepted by them, whatever the amount.

 

I have a bank account with Santander in the Isle of Mann ... will a problem for the executors of my UK Will

[MrMo]

On 13/11/2017 at 12:51 PM, KNJ said:

I would recommend a third one for the channel Islands in your case. Not the original question, but maybe applicable

One other point is that the will that is geographically specific should be dated later than the will which is "world-wide" or non-geographic specific.   If it is not so dated the non-geographic specific will over-rule the specific will as the latest will rules.

[orientalist]

The way my lawyer recommended was to make the first will for "all countries except Thailand" and the second for Thailand.

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, MrMo said:

One other point is that the will that is geographically specific should be dated later than the will which is "world-wide" or non-geographic specific.   If it is not so dated the non-geographic specific will over-rule the specific will as the latest will rules.

 

 

Not if you cross-reference the Wills and ensure that they are geographically specific.