Two weeks to unlock Brexit, EU tells Britain's May

[rooster59]

Two weeks to unlock Brexit, EU tells Britain's May

By Elizabeth Piper and Jan Strupczewski

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May meets with her Swedish counterpart Stefan Lofven (not pictured) at Gothia Towers Hotel on the eve of the EU Social Summit for Fair Jobs and Growth in Gothenburg, Sweden November 16, 2017. TT News Agency/Bjorn Larsson Rosvall via REUTERS ATTENTION EDITORS - THIS IMAGE WAS PROVIDED BY A THIRD PARTY. SWEDEN OUT. NO COMMERCIAL OR EDITORIAL SALES IN SWEDEN

 

GOTHENBURG, Sweden (Reuters) - "There is more work to be done" to unlock Brexit talks, British Prime Minister Theresa May was told on Friday, as the European Union repeated an early December deadline for her to move on the divorce bill and border with Ireland.

 

May met fellow leaders on the sidelines of an EU summit in Gothenburg, Sweden, to try to break the deadlock over how much Britain will pay on leaving the bloc in 16 months. She signalled again that she would increase an initial offer that is estimated at some 20 billion euros, about a third of what Brussels wants.

 

But without any immediate plans to detail which financial commitments Britain was planning to cover and with a growing row with Ireland over their shared border, European Council President Donald Tusk, who coordinates Brexit for the bloc's other 27 leaders, concluded Britain must take further steps.

 

He increased the pressure on May to make progress by early December, in time for the EU to react at a summit on Dec. 14-15, or risk losing a chance to push the talks to a discussion of future trade ties, something London desperately wants so it can offer some certainty to nervy businesses.

 

Asked about Brexit minister David Davis complaining that Britain had made "all the running" in finding compromises on the third key divorce issue -- the rights of expatriate citizens, Tusk said pointedly: "I can say only that I really appreciate Mr. Davis's English sense of humour."

 

He told the news conference: "While good progress on citizens has been made, we need to see much more progress on Ireland and on the financial settlement.

 

"In order to avoid any ambiguity about our work calendar, I made it very clear to prime minister May that this progress needs to happen at the beginning of December at the latest."

 

It was an echo of the ultimatum issued by the EU's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, who a week ago gave Davis until the end of the month to detail the British approach to the financial settlement -- and effectively increase the money on the table.

 

But Tusk, who met May earlier on Friday, added another demand - more progress on the future status of the border between EU member Ireland and Northern Ireland, which Britain says is almost impossible to make without discussing the future trade deal as that would determine the kind of customs needed.

 

PRESSURE AT HOME, AWAY

 

Under pressure at home from lawmakers in her own party who are concerned she is preparing for Britain to walk away with no deal and from the EU, May has tried to gloss over the differences and emphasise how far the talks have come.

 

"We've agreed that good progress has been made. More does need to be done. But we're clear, and I'm clear, that what we need to do is move forward together and that is how we can ensure that we are going to get the best deal for the United Kingdom and the European Union," May told reporters.

 

But a growing row with Ireland broke into the open on Friday, with Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney saying Dublin was not ready to allow the talks to move onto a discussion of future trade next month.

 

Prime Minister Leo Varadkar went further. "I can't say in any honesty that it's close on the Irish issue or on the financial settlement," he told Sky News.

 

"After 40 years of marriage, most of them good, now Britain wants a divorce but an open relationship the day after."

 

With German Chancellor Angela Merkel absent from the summit because of government formation talks in Berlin, it was left to French President Emmanuel Macron to speak for the heavyweight powers which are taking a tough line with London:

 

"We won't change the agreed process in any way, and we won't open talks on the future relationship as long as the conditions set in the first phase have not been met," he said Sweden.

 

But May, weakened after losing her Conservative Party's majority at a June election she did not need to call, has little room for manoeuvre. Some of her team of ministers are pressing her to hold off from naming a figure, seeing it as one of the few levers Britain has to press for better trade deal.

Despite the tough language, Tusk offered some hope.

 

"I feel much better, safer after my meeting with Theresa May, everything is possible," the former Polish premier said.

 

"There was very visibly goodwill on both sides. We still have a chance to achieve our first goal -- to achieve the finalisation of the first phase of negotiations. I am very cautious. But optimistic."

 

($1 = 0.8480 euros)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-18

[Samui Bodoh]

I think leaving the EU was a terrible decision, but it is one where reasonable people can disagree.

 

However, I am sure ALL will agree that the leaving process has been one of the most egregious displays of incompetence ever. 

 

There is nothing like kicking yourself in the crotch when you are already down... 

[alant]

Once again this is presented as the EU issuing threats to wreck UK trade if it does not come to heal.

Do we take it the EU is not worried about losing the UK as a market?

Over £300 billion pa to the UK and they are not worried?

 

Bluster to cover up the facts maybe?

[alant]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think leaving the EU was a terrible decision, but it is one where reasonable people can disagree.

 

However, I am sure ALL will agree that the leaving process has been one of the most egregious displays of incompetence ever. 

 

There is nothing like kicking yourself in the crotch when you are already down... 

on both sides

[Get Real]

4 minutes ago, alant said:

Once again this is presented as the EU issuing threats to wreck UK trade if it does not come to heal.

Do we take it the EU is not worried about losing the UK as a market?

Over £300 billion pa to the UK and they are not worried?

 

Bluster to cover up the facts maybe?

Why on earth would EU loose UK as a market? Long before EU it was a lot of trading that all countries could benefit from.
You´re living in a dream. The rules is going to be set so tight, so it would have been much better to never have been talking about a Brexit.

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

the former Polish premier said.

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Get Real said:

 you are living in a dream..... it would have been much better to never have been talking about a Brexit.

 

 

 

But we ARE..... because it is happening..... I think it is you living in a dream.

[Get Real]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

But we ARE..... because it is happening..... I think it is you living in a dream.

Yep! On the terms of the European Union. Good Luck! Remember December! 

[transam]

Be good if the Germans paid the UK it's costs for the death a destruction it caused for achieving nothing...

[vogie]

David Davis is doing his best to negotiate, Barnier is being bloody beligerent, they are leaving the the UK with no options but to walk away and let the EU stew in its own juices.

[RuamRudy]

53 minutes ago, vogie said:

David Davis is doing his best to negotiate, Barnier is being bloody beligerent, they are leaving the the UK with no options but to walk away and let the EU stew in its own juices.

I am sure he is doing his best - but is it good enough? 

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am sure he is doing his best - but is it good enough? 

Under the circumstances, it is good enough, D Davis is trying to negotiate, Barnier isn't. But I guess you knew that anyway. Slagging off the UK all the time will not help anyone. Don't you think the EU should play a part in these 'negotiations?' Negotiating is not saying 'I want this, you will do that!' Of course some sort of a deal will be beneficial to both sides, but with Barnier and the rest of the crazy gang, it might not happen!

[natway09]

"But we are doing all the talking"     of course you are. This was your idea not the EU's

They do not want a divorce ,,,, you do.

This will badly affect the UK for 15  years if it actually happens

[whatsupdoc]

Clear rules were set by the EU: first progress on the Irish border, the rights of EU citizens in the UK and vice versa, and the financial commitments. The UK agreed with this approach but cannot make up its mind what is actually wants so no progress in the talks.

And many Brexiteers still want to blame Barnier for the lack of progress???? Unbelievable.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Under the circumstances, it is good enough, D Davis is trying to negotiate, Barnier isn't. But I guess you knew that anyway. Slagging off the UK all the time will not help anyone. Don't you think the EU should play a part in these 'negotiations?' Negotiating is not saying 'I want this, you will do that!' Of course some sort of a deal will be beneficial to both sides, but with Barnier and the rest of the crazy gang, it might not happen!

I am not sure how you came to the above diatribe from my contribution. 

 

Despite recognising the utter folly of what lies ahead, I am accepting it becoming a reality, so I want that the best people for the job actually do the job. Why, as the above photograph shows, does he walk into a meeting on one of, if not THE, most important trade discussions ever, without a sheet of paper to refer to? Is he so confident in his ability that he is just going to sit back in his chair and wax lyrical - and get a satisfactory, equitable result? 

 

As for slagging off the UK? Be serious - Davis is not the UK. Unfortunately he is the man that our PM sent to represent our interests, but commenting on his less than stellar performance and apparent lack of preparedness can hardly be seen to be an attack on the UK.  

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

David Davis is doing his best to negotiate, Barnier is being bloody beligerent, they are leaving the the UK with no options but to walk away and let the EU stew in its own juices.

 

Barnier is doing as instructed, exactly as instructed.

 

They want a punitive very large, and plucked out of thin air, "fine" for Britain to leave. A figure Britain must come up with without any help from them. And once Britain has agreed to a substantial figure, they might then consider, perhaps, some favors on trade.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU are remotely interested in a fair deal is deluded.

[vogie]

52 minutes ago, natway09 said:

"But we are doing all the talking"     of course you are. This was your idea not the EU's

They do not want a divorce ,,,, you do.

This will badly affect the UK for 15  years if it actually happens

If you divorce your wife and she screws you, that'll be ok will it?

[Naam]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Barnier is doing as instructed, exactly as instructed.

 

They want a punitive very large, and plucked out of thin air, "fine" for Britain to leave. A figure Britain must come up with without any help from them. And once Britain has agreed to a substantial figure, they might then consider, perhaps, some favors on trade.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU are remotely interested in a fair deal is deluded.

a typical out of thin air drawn Brexiteer claim without any basis.

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

David Davis is doing his best to negotiate, Barnier is being bloody beligerent, they are leaving the the UK with no options but to walk away and let the EU stew in its own juices.

Do you really think if walking away was an option that the UK wouldn't have done it by now?  Why would they keep floundering and insisting that progress is being made?  Why would they put themselves through this enormous embarrassment if they had a viable option?  Time to take off the rose tinted glasses.

 

Britain has to find a deal and that is going to cost us dearly.  Or, admit that it is not possible to negotiate a deal that will be beneficial for the UK and scrap the whole idea.  I won't hold my breath on that!

 

Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not sure how you came to the above diatribe from my contribution. 

 

Despite recognising the utter folly of what lies ahead, I am accepting it becoming a reality, so I want that the best people for the job actually do the job. Why, as the above photograph shows, does he walk into a meeting on one of, if not THE, most important trade discussions ever, without a sheet of paper to refer to? Is he so confident in his ability that he is just going to sit back in his chair and wax lyrical - and get a satisfactory, equitable result? 

 

As for slagging off the UK? Be serious - Davis is not the UK. Unfortunately he is the man that our PM sent to represent our interests, but commenting on his less than stellar performance and apparent lack of preparedness can hardly be seen to be an attack on the UK.  

As James Stewart once said 'oh Rudy Rudy Rudy.'

Is that called finding fault saying he hasn't any paper with him, maybe he's gone digital, I don't know. If Teresa May had sent Henry Kissenger you would still have found fault.

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think leaving the EU was a terrible decision, but it is one where reasonable people can disagree.

 

However, I am sure ALL will agree that the leaving process has been one of the most egregious displays of incompetence ever. 

 

There is nothing like kicking yourself in the crotch when you are already down... 

 

And exponentially the biggest reason for the mess is remain refusing to accept the decision to leave, and undermining the government on it at every turn.

[Khun Han]

43 minutes ago, Naam said:

a typical out of thin air drawn Brexiteer claim without any basis.

 

Baerboxer supports remain.

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And exponentially the biggest reason for the mess is remain refusing to accept the decision to leave, and undermining the government on it at every turn.

Really? And here was me thinking it was the EU making it difficult to leave.  Amazing how everyone is to blame except the inept idiot Davis who is trying and failing miserably.

[Khun Han]

43 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Do you really think if walking away was an option that the UK wouldn't have done it by now?  Why would they keep floundering and insisting that progress is being made?  Why would they put themselves through this enormous embarrassment if they had a viable option?  Time to take off the rose tinted glasses.

 

Britain has to find a deal and that is going to cost us dearly.  Or, admit that it is not possible to negotiate a deal that will be beneficial for the UK and scrap the whole idea.  I won't hold my breath on that!

 

Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

 

"Do you really think if walking away was an option that the UK wouldn't have done it by now?  Why would they keep floundering and insisting that progress is being made?  Why would they put themselves through this enormous embarrassment if they had a viable option?"

 

It's the need to keep some kind of political unity within the government and it's party. The economic argument is purely speculative.

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Really? And here was me thinking it was the EU making it difficult to leave.  Amazing how everyone is to blame except the inept idiot Davis who is trying and failing miserably.

 

If the EU were dealing with a unified UK, it's position would be much, much weaker. High level meetings with the Corbynistas, war criminal Blair, etc, show us that the EU is hand-in-glove with the UK's brexit saboteurs.

[RuamRudy]

39 minutes ago, vogie said:

As James Stewart once said 'oh Rudy Rudy Rudy.'

Is that called finding fault saying he hasn't any paper with him, maybe he's gone digital, I don't know. If Teresa May had sent Henry Kissenger you would still have found fault.

Well I wouldn't call Davis a mass murdering war criminal but that is for another topic. However, if you are convinced of the ability and preparedness of Davis and his UK counterparts then I am a bit dumbfounded. To what extent would their collective incompetence need to be demonstrated before you suspect that they really weren't up to the task? See Johnson comparing the RoI / NI border with English Channel for more.

[Samui Bodoh]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Barnier is doing as instructed, exactly as instructed.

 

They want a punitive very large, and plucked out of thin air, "fine" for Britain to leave. A figure Britain must come up with without any help from them. And once Britain has agreed to a substantial figure, they might then consider, perhaps, some favors on trade.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU are remotely interested in a fair deal is deluded.

While I read these threads regarding Brexit, I do try to limit my comments as I am not from the UK.

 

However...

 

Why would anyone believe that the EU is interested in a "fair" deal? Why wouldn't the EU want the best deal possible, from their perspective? Why do UK people think they deserve a "fair" deal? What does the EU owe the UK?

 

The UK said 'lets renegotiate the terms of the deal and we will hold a referendum!'. Renegotiations occurred and the question was put to a referendum. The people of the UK decided to leave. Period.

 

What exactly does the EU owe to the UK? 

 

Nothing.

 

Move along...

 

[alant]

8 hours ago, Get Real said:

Why on earth would EU loose UK as a market? Long before EU it was a lot of trading that all countries could benefit from.
You´re living in a dream. The rules is going to be set so tight, so it would have been much better to never have been talking about a Brexit.

I didn't understand your response, am I living a dream? Need I Get Real?

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

And exponentially the biggest reason for the mess is remain refusing to accept the decision to leave, and undermining the government on it at every turn.

A real step forward.
The first time that the EU is not portrayed as a responsible culprit.
Now slowly the word BREXIT gets a content.
And this content is rich in facets like a kaleidoscope.
This extends from: throwing all foreigners out of the country, own border controls, paying no divorce costs, over a transition period, having a new trade deal, to remaining in the common market, continue to maintain good relations with the EU, paste and copy EU laws, but, ......
And all this coupled with a time pressure and time limit, within reasonable solutions can not be realized.
Have already posted in another thread how long normally new trade agreements take until they are signed.
The UK negotiators seem to forget that they are negotiating with 27 states at the same time and that's system conditionally, time-consuming.
The whole thing is a bit like Nena's song: 99 Balloons.
And every balloon is a new idea that is released daily by the UK politicians.
Even the Brexiters do not agree on what kind of brexit they really want.

Edited November 18, 2017 by tomacht8

[Basil B]

10 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think leaving the EU was a terrible decision, but it is one where reasonable people can disagree.

 

However, I am sure ALL will agree that the leaving process has been one of the most egregious displays of incompetence ever. 

 

There is nothing like kicking yourself in the crotch when you are already down... 

Too true, I was a remainer too, I see little advantage off being out, what we gain by not paying into the EU we lose in exports to the EU, the upheaval of leaving I predicted.

 

My thoughts are now, as we are facing intransigence by the bully boys "Messrs Tusk, Barnier & Juncker" we should say compromise or we will stop the negotiations, then table a take it or leave none negotiable proposal.