Consequences of leaving Thailand 5 days after 90 day report due?

[jharr]

Is this a potential issue or because it is within the 7 day grace period a non-issue?

Cheers

[elviajero]

It's a non-issue.

[BritTim]

It depends if you will be coming back, and using the same immigration office in the future.

 

No check on 90-day reporting compliance is done at the airport. Thus, you will have no problems leaving or returning to Thailand. However, if you subsequently visit the same immigration office you used in the past, they will likely discover that you did not do the report. Having been 90 days in the country, a report was required. A grace period to submit the report is granted, but leaving the country is not counted as a report.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

And, if caught out, the fine is baht 2,000.

 

Mac

[Somtamnication]

There is a 7 day before and after clause. You leave within those 7 days, you are cleared.  You left the country. 

[phuketrichard]

above incorrect; 14 days before, 7 days after the due date

no problem leaving, ur 90 day reset when u re enter.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

above incorrect; 14 days before, 7 days after the due date

The 7 days after is to do the report. Leaving the country is not doing a report.

Not likely to happen but if an officer was to notice you failed to do the report before leaving the could fine you for not doing it.   

[noise]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The 7 days after is to do the report. Leaving the country is not doing a report.

Not likely to happen but if an officer was to notice you failed to do the report before leaving the could fine you for not doing it.   

AS UbonJoe said, I was "caught" and fined once because I forgot about reporting until 2 weeks after the due date.  The Immigration Officer fined me for being 14 days late and explained that days 1 to 7 were over due days but did not incur a fine until day 8 and beyond.   It was not the amount of the fine that caught my attention but the receipt saying 14 days late. 

[chrisinth]

6 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

There is a 7 day before and after clause. You leave within those 7 days, you are cleared.  You left the country. 

That is incorrect. The 7 day grace period after the report date is only applicable if you (or representative) are attending to do the report in person. And I believe it is 14 days before.

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

It depends if you will be coming back, and using the same immigration office in the future.

 

No check on 90-day reporting compliance is done at the airport. Thus, you will have no problems leaving or returning to Thailand. However, if you subsequently visit the same immigration office you used in the past, they will likely discover that you did not do the report. Having been 90 days in the country, a report was required. A grace period to submit the report is granted, but leaving the country is not counted as a report.

Correct, leaving the country doesn't count as a report, but leaving stops the clock.

 

Although a report becomes due at midnight on day 90 the OP will only be in the country continuously for 95 days, and only people staying in the country longer than 97 days can be fined. How can immigration, based on their own rules, fine someone that stayed in the country 95 days without reporting?

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Correct, leaving the country doesn't count as a report, but leaving stops the clock.

 

Although a report becomes due at midnight on day 90 the OP will only be in the country continuously for 95 days, and only people staying in the country longer than 97 days can be fined. How can immigration, based on their own rules, fine someone that stayed in the country 95 days without reporting?

The law says you must report if in the country longer than 90 days, not 97 days. If you report before day 97, you are in compliance with the law. Your interpretation is equivalent to reporting every 97 days with no grace period of 7 days to make the report. That is not the intent of allowing the report a few days late. If you are in the country for 90+ days, and do not report by the end of the grace period, you are in violation of the rules. Leaving during the grace period does not remove the requirement to report. Leaving on day 92, returning on day 95 and reporting on day 96 would, however, be legal, although strange because usually the new entry starts the clock on a new 90 days..

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

The law says you must report if in the country longer than 90 days, not 97 days. If you report before day 97, you are in compliance with the law. Your interpretation is equivalent to reporting every 97 days with no grace period of 7 days to make the report. That is not the intent of allowing the report a few days late. If you are in the country for 90+ days, and do not report by the end of the grace period, you are in violation of the rules. Leaving during the grace period does not remove the requirement to report. Leaving on day 92, returning on day 95 and reporting on day 96 would, however, be legal, although strange because usually the new entry starts the clock on a new 90 days..

You didn't answer my question.

 

The law says you have to report having stayed in the country longer than 90 continuos days. That means the first day you can report is day 91. Fortunately immigration give a 3 week window for people to comply. As they have to give extra time for obvious practical reasons they cannot fine someone for reporting during that extra time.

 

I accept that a report becomes due at midnight on day 90 etc., however, the OP will only be staying in the country for a total of 95 days. Only people that report on or after day 97, having continuously stayed in the country for 97+ can be fined.

 

So, how can immigration, based on their own rules, fine someone that only stayed in the country 95 days without reporting? 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

The law says you have to report having stayed in the country longer than 90 continuos days. That means the first day you can report is day 91

No, the first day you can report is day 77 (you are allowed to report up to 14 days early or 7 days late, as long as you do report).

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

I accept that a report becomes due at midnight on day 90 etc., however, the OP will only be staying in the country for a total of 95 days. Only people that report on or after day 97, having continuously stayed in the country for 97+ can be fined.

No, people who stayed in the country longer than 90 days and did not report between day 77 and day 97 can be fined. The law does not say you must report if in the country more than 97 days.

[steve73]

Imm. will sometimes let you report much earlier than 14 days before, if you are doing an extension at the same time, in order to align the dates...

Although if you do 90 day reports on line you loose 1-2 weeks each time and so will be out of phase again come the following year.

 

OP could simply do his 90 day report on-line to save any potential future hassles.

[Suradit69]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

I accept that a report becomes due at midnight on day 90 etc., however, the OP will only be staying in the country for a total of 95 days. Only people that report on or after day 97, having continuously stayed in the country for 97+ can be fined.

The fine would be imposed if he fails to do the report by the 97th day, but the obligation to make a report begins at the end of the 90th day. 

 

If he leaves the country and returns, since the report would not have been made on or before the 97th day, he could be fined if someone at his immigration office notices the report was never made.

 

He wouldn't be fined on the 95th day and if he was leaving the country permanently then, he would have no further interactions with Thai immigrations so it wouldn't matter, but since the obligation to report was never met, potentially it could come back to bite him in the derriere in future if he returned to Thailand.

 

 

[fxe1200]

23 hours ago, Thanyaburi Mac said:

And, if caught out, the fine is baht 2,000.

 

Mac

Not necessarily, I forgot the first and one time only my 90 days report and was eleven days late. They understood my mishap and let me get away with it.

[Autonuaq]

You will be fined for not reporting.

 

You could send the 90 day report by mail. 14 days before.

So there is no excuse.

 

You are lucky if all goes well and no stamp in the passport that you paid the fine which can be up to 5000 th

[denby45]

Probably everyone knows this (except I didn't). I did a trip to Abu Dhabi in September and obviously reset my 90 day report to December. As I did my renewal of retirement extension in this month (11th. Nov) I was stupidly assuming my next report date would be reset again to 90 days. As I was leaving the office I thought I better make sure so I asked the girl on the desk. Sure enough she confirmed that the 90 day report has to be done in December and that the renewing of the extension has no bearing on the reporting mechanism. Even though you visit the Imm. it does not mean you have reported your 90 day stay. I also asked, in that case, while I was there could I do my 90 day report to align the two and she told me it is not possible because too early. Have to wait until December.

 

It wasn't a big deal as I am Jomtien Imm. and they are in my estimation very good and you are in and out in no time at all.

lesson learned never assume always ask.

 

Den

 

[12DrinkMore]

2 hours ago, steve73 said:

Imm. will sometimes let you report much earlier than 14 days before, if you are doing an extension at the same time, in order to align the dates...

Although if you do 90 day reports on line you loose 1-2 weeks each time and so will be out of phase again come the following year.

 

OP could simply do his 90 day report on-line to save any potential future hassles.

 

The enlightened immigration officers where I extend my retirement visa have for the last couple of years simultaneously issued a new 90 day report slip.

 

Is the online reporting now working?

 

Never worked for me, and I tried multiple times for a year ot two and then gave up.

[steve73]

39 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

The enlightened immigration officers where I extend my retirement visa have for the last couple of years simultaneously issued a new 90 day report slip.

 

Is the online reporting now working?

 

Never worked for me, and I tried multiple times for a year ot two and then gave up.

On-line reporting has been working for around 6 months... I did mine again last week. 

[Phuket Man]

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

On-line reporting has been working for around 6 months... I did mine again last week. 

Online reporting does not work for many.

Myself and UbonJoe included.

[elviajero]

You still didn't answer my question.

 

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

No, the first day you can report is day 77 (you are allowed to report up to 14 days early or 7 days late, as long as you do report).

I was referring to the law. To clarify; the first day you are required to report, by law, is day 91.

 

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

No, people who stayed in the country longer than 90 days and did not report between day 77 and day 97 can be fined. The law does not say you must report if in the country more than 97 days.

No people can't be fined under immigration rules. Fines do not apply until day 97+. The law says that to have to report as soon as possible from day 91 onwards. Immigration give people 6 days to report without being fined. Only people that stay continuously in the country longer than 96 days, that haven't reported within 97 days, can be fined.

 

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. ...

 

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

The fine would be imposed if he fails to do the report by the 97th day, but the obligation to make a report begins at the end of the 90th day. 

Agreed.

 

5 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

If he leaves the country and returns, since the report would not have been made on or before the 97th day, he could be fined if someone at his immigration office notices the report was never made.

If he leaves on day 95 the clock stops.

 

The ability for immigration to fine does not start until day 97 because they have to give people time to report because the requirement to report doesn't start until day 91. If someone leaves on day 95 they have not stayed 97+ days, therefore ,the fine cannot be issued. If someone leaves on day 97+ I would agree that immigration could issue a fine.

 

The idea of retrospective fining is simply the opinion of UJ that people repeat. I have never heard of anyone being fined at a later date having left within the 7 day reporting window, neither do I recall any reports on TVF.

 

[NicoBKK]

Was not an issue for me, I left for a business trip with a 2+ months delay on 90 days and got back wit a fresh restart date avoiding the fine. 

 

[BritTim]

52 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The ability for immigration to fine does not start until day 97 because they have to give people time to report because the requirement to report doesn't start until day 91. If someone leaves on day 95 they have not stayed 97+ days, therefore ,the fine cannot be issued. If someone leaves on day 97+ I would agree that immigration could issue a fine.

First, everyone agrees that you cannot be fined at the airport on your way out of the country prior to day 97.

 

Secondly, if your interpretation is correct, it would be a lot simpler if immigration said you must report if in the country more than 97 days, and can do the 97 day report up to 21 days early.

[Wake Up]

9 hours ago, denby45 said:

Probably everyone knows this (except I didn't). I did a trip to Abu Dhabi in September and obviously reset my 90 day report to December. As I did my renewal of retirement extension in this month (11th. Nov) I was stupidly assuming my next report date would be reset again to 90 days. As I was leaving the office I thought I better make sure so I asked the girl on the desk. Sure enough she confirmed that the 90 day report has to be done in December and that the renewing of the extension has no bearing on the reporting mechanism. Even though you visit the Imm. it does not mean you have reported your 90 day stay. I also asked, in that case, while I was there could I do my 90 day report to align the two and she told me it is not possible because too early. Have to wait until December.

 

It wasn't a big deal as I am Jomtien Imm. and they are in my estimation very good and you are in and out in no time at all.

lesson learned never assume always ask.

 

Den

 

FYI. BKK CW staples a note into your passport that when you file to renew your extension of stay by filing TM7, the date you filed the TM 7 restarts  the 90 day reporting period.  I filed my renewal of extension of stay TM 7 on October 31 so my new 90 day report date is January 30, 2018. 

 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

Secondly, if your interpretation is correct, it would be a lot simpler if immigration said you must report if in the country more than 97 days, and can do the 97 day report up to 21 days early.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

It's simple already. The legal requirement to report starts on day 91, and has to be done asap. Immigration want it done before day 97, and if you report after day 96 they can fine you. If you leave the country before day 97, or report before day 97, they can't fine you because you haven't stayed longer than 96 days without reporting, which is the point they can legally fine you.

[BritTim]

11 hours ago, BritTim said:

Secondly, if your interpretation is correct, it would be a lot simpler if immigration said you must report if in the country more than 97 days, and can do the 97 day report up to 21 days early.

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

That doesn't make any sense.

 

It's simple already. The legal requirement to report starts on day 91, and has to be done asap. Immigration want it done before day 97, and if you report after day 96 they can fine you. If you leave the country before day 97, or report before day 97, they can't fine you because you haven't stayed longer than 96 days without reporting, which is the point they can legally fine you.

To repeat what I said before in a slightly different way. Having stayed longer than 90 days, you are correct that they cannot fine you on day 95. However, if you have not reported being longer than 90 days in the country, and are out of the country on day 97, you are liable to be fined as soon as you are back in Thailand and immigration detects your non report.

 

I would be interested in any difference you can point to (if your interpretation is correct) between 90-day reports (with no need to report if you leave Thailand before day 97) and 97-day reports.

[tgeezer]

Personally I think that they have you bang to rights if you are in country beyond 90 days and fail to report. The police order may give seven days and that is very reasonable if you make a report.

The actual wording of The Immigration Act says “report not pull-slow” (Chak Cha ) to describe what you must not be. Tardy might be a good translation.

I know that this doesn’t answer the question except to say that in my opinion you would not have a strong case if it was discovered and it became an issue.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, Wake Up said:

FYI. BKK CW staples a note into your passport that when you file to renew your extension of stay by filing TM7, the date you filed the TM 7 restarts  the 90 day reporting period.  I filed my renewal of extension of stay TM 7 on October 31 so my new 90 day report date is January 30, 2018. 

They only do that for the first extension of stay application since it counts as doing a report.

If you have already done one extension of stay you will go by the date on the receipt for your most recent 90 day report.