TM30 Notication Clarification Needed for Foreign Holders of Yellow House Book

[tomdfc]

Just read a confusing thread on the Chiang Mai forum, as well as then googling for further information.  But am now even more puzzled and concerned, not being able to get a clear English statement of what - if anything - is the requirement for people like ourselves.  

My Brit wife and I have a Yellow Tabian Baan and have had for some years.  We report to Immigration annually to extend our permisson to stay on our retirement / dependent visas.  When we leave the country of course on return we complete the TM6 arrival/departure cards.  And we report on a 90 days basis when needed.  We do not have "aliens" residing with us.  We have never had any problems when submitting our paperwork for our annual extensions and have never been asked by any Immigration officer about the absence of a TM30.  

Is there any such legal reporting requirement now for people like ourselves?  Have we missed a trick? 

Thanks in advance. 

[ubonjoe]

A yellow house book does not exempt you from doing the TM30 reporting. 

Not all immigration offices enforce the reporting. Some only want only want one if you change addresses.

If you use the Chiang  Mai immigration office they have been enforcing the requirement for over 2 years now. They want it updated every time you leave and re-enter the country.

[tgeezer]

Noone can speak for Immigration but my feeling is that you should carry on as before. Making a TM 30 can be justified legally but since Immigration haven't needed it from you in the past, if they make a change in procedure they should inform you.
I have never been reported on a TM 30 either but last time I renewed my driving licence Immigration wouldn't confirm my address so I wonder if that was the reason.


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[Denim]

I am curious.

 

If you are living here on a multi non O based on marriage obtained at Suv.,and do visa runs every 90 days ( exit country ) is any kind of reporting to local immigration still required ?

 

I was under the impression that since an immigration official sees you at the border and you complete a TM 30 card on re entry this is enough to satisfy legal requirement.

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, Denim said:

I am curious.

 

If you are living here on a multi non O based on marriage obtained at Suv.,and do visa runs every 90 days ( exit country ) is any kind of reporting to local immigration still required ?

 

I was under the impression that since an immigration official sees you at the border and you complete a TM 30 card on re entry this is enough to satisfy legal requirement.

You complete a TM-6 card on entry - not a TM-30. You'd think that would be enough, but ...

 

You need to go to your local immigration office and file a TM-30 if:

1. Your local immigration office enforces the TM-30 rules (Bangkok's Chang Wattana doesn't)
2. Your local immigration office's particular interpretation of the TM-30 law requires you report returning to the same place you have always lived (some do, some don't, some did and now don't but might start again when high-season ends), sometimes depending on how long you were gone.
3. You ever intend to use your local immigration office for an extension or other service, at which point they might do a check to see if you have filed a TM-30, and take the opportunity to collect a fine from you if you haven't.

Many use the Multi-O visa to avoid ever going to their local immigration office due to bad experiences, but others choose to get 60-day "visit wife" extensions of some of their 90-day entries, which could lead to a TM-30 reporting check.

[tgeezer]

Denim, I am also curious. If you have a "multi non O" what is the attraction of leaving the country every 90 days? Why not try actually "living here" by extending for a year on the basis of marriage and on the same day, get multiple re-entry permits to use when you need to travel?



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[whatsupdoc]

11 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Denim, I am also curious. If you have a "multi non O" what is the attraction of leaving the country every 90 days? Why not try actually "living here" by extending for a year on the basis of marriage and on the same day, get multiple re-entry permits to use when you need to travel?



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The attraction is not having to deal with local immigration at all.

Plus if you like traveling it might not be a problem to leave the country every 90 days, even nice to do so.

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

The attraction is not having to deal with local immigration at all.

Plus if you like traveling it might not be a problem to leave the country every 90 days, even nice to do so.

 

That's what all the local married expats say, that haven't got two satang's to rub together.

The Non Imm ME O is issued to 'visit' your wife, but is often misused to stay in Thailand.

 

They complain about the travel and Visa costs as well.

 

The wiser Australian and American nationals obtain a proof of income letter from their Embassies now (with no proof of funds) to get extensions based on marriage, so they can dispense with the hassle and costs associated with continually exiting and re-entering the Country.

[whatsupdoc]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

 

That's what all the local married expats say, that haven't got two satang's to rub together.

The Non Imm ME O is issued to 'visit' your wife, but is often misused to stay in Thailand.

 

They complain about the travel and Visa costs as well.

Doesn't make much sense. Traveling abroad every 90 days and getting a new visa every year probably costs more than going to local immigration but some people don't mind about that. Anyway it is legal to do so, so I don't understand why it would be misuse...

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Doesn't make much sense. Traveling abroad every 90 days and getting a new visa every year probably costs more than going to local immigration but some people don't mind about that. 

 

The vast majority I know using the Non Imm O ME Visa, don't use it because they want to, they use it as an alternative to remain in Thailand because they cannot meet the financial requirements for an extension at Immigration.

[whatsupdoc]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

 

The vast majority I know using the Non Imm O ME Visa, don't use it because they want to, they use it as an alternative to remain in Thailand because they cannot meet the financial requirements for an extension at Immigration.

Yes, I understand that but some people (myself included) have no problem to meet those requirements but like to travel. I would leave the country every 90 days anyway so why bother with local immigration? For some, getting non-Imm O ME visas is a choice, not a necessity.

[rumak]

3 hours ago, tomdfc said:

st read a confusing thread on the Chiang Mai forum, as well as then googling for further information.  But am now even more puzzled and concerned, not being able to get a clear English statement of what - if anything - is the requirement for people like ourselves.  

My Brit wife and I have a Yellow Tabian Baan and have had for some years.  We report to Immigration annually to extend our permisson to stay on our retirement / dependent visas.  When we leave the country of course on return we complete the TM6 arrival/departure cards.  And we report on a 90 days basis when needed.  We do not have "aliens" residing with us.  We have never had any problems when submitting our paperwork for our annual extensions and have never been asked by any Immigration officer about the absence of a TM30.  

Is there any such legal reporting requirement now for people like ourselves?  Have we missed a trick? 

Thanks in advance. 

Ubon Joe has given you the CORRECT answer !   If you continue to read other info from other sources

you will indeed get more and more confused .   If in CM, when you get back to your residence get your

butt to CMI within 24 hours or on Monday following weekend.   If you live in another province, some

enforce this and others don't.   Just walk on in and ask ..... or avoid it till they ask for tm30 or fine you.

 

[Denim]

35 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Yes, I understand that but some people (myself included) have no problem to meet those requirements but like to travel. I would leave the country every 90 days anyway so why bother with local immigration? For some, getting non-Imm O ME visas is a choice, not a necessity.

I agree. I can meet the requirements ( even for a retirement visa ) but can't stand dealing with officialdom. Where we lived before the local amper was very uncooperative  and liked to fish for back handers.

 

My wife and I like to travel and going the multi O way gives us a good excuse to get off our backsides and go exploring. Usually make a week long trip of it exploring places we otherwise would likely never have gone to.

 

I also know people who previously went the yearly extension route but eventually gave it up in favour of the multi O option. Different strokes for different folks.

 

As for the try ' living here ' comment not really relevant as over the past 30 years I reckon I have been in the Kingdom for 29 of them.

[Denim]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

You complete a TM-6 card on entry - not a TM-30. You'd think that would be enough, but ...

 

You need to go to your local immigration office and file a TM-30 if:

1. Your local immigration office enforces the TM-30 rules (Bangkok's Chang Wattana doesn't)
2. Your local immigration office's particular interpretation of the TM-30 law requires you report returning to the same place you have always lived (some do, some don't, some did and now don't but might start again when high-season ends), sometimes depending on how long you were gone.
3. You ever intend to use your local immigration office for an extension or other service, at which point they might do a check to see if you have filed a TM-30, and take the opportunity to collect a fine from you if you haven't.

Many use the Multi-O visa to avoid ever going to their local immigration office due to bad experiences, but others choose to get 60-day "visit wife" extensions of some of their 90-day entries, which could lead to a TM-30 reporting check.

Thanks for the clarification. Appreciated.  Polite and informative.

[worgeordie]

Chiang Mai,does enforce TM30, it's a nice little earner for them with a fine

of 1,600 THB,if you don't have one,the only time they are going to ask you

for it is when you do your extension.

regards woregeordie

[Dipterocarp]

Does Chiang Mai does not require it for 90 day reports? (I don’t do 90 days reports).



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[tgeezer]

I agree. I can meet the requirements ( even for a retirement visa ) but can't stand dealing with officialdom. Where we lived before the local amper was very uncooperative  and liked to fish for back handers.
 
My wife and I like to travel and going the multi O way gives us a good excuse to get off our backsides and go exploring. Usually make a week long trip of it exploring places we otherwise would likely never have gone to.
 
I also know people who previously went the yearly extension route but eventually gave it up in favour of the multi O option. Different strokes for different folks.
 
As for the try ' living here ' comment not really relevant as over the past 30 years I reckon I have been in the Kingdom for 29 of them.

Thanks, I was genuinely curious because travelling seems such a chore to me. I move in each direction once per year.

You correctly quoted my quote of your’s but misunderstood, try ‘living here’ means try ‘doing what you are doing’. I can’t presume to know what you mean by it, especially since ‘living here’ is by law supposed to be under the scrutiny of the authorities. In avoiding Immigration there s the danger of them mis reading your behavior as avoiding scrutiny, such situations can be acceptable but backhanders may become due.



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[NanLaew]

With the OP saying that he's been in LOS for 'some years', I think it's safe to say that he and his wife have possibly filed at least one extension and have departed and returned a few times and never been asked for the TM30 despite it being 'required' at Chiang Mai immigration for over 2 years already. The TM30 has been a 'feature' of Jomtien Immigration for maybe over a year now but there's still evidence that the bulk of extension renewers and 90-day reporters don't get asked for it and furthermore, they go in and out of the country a couple or three times a year and never submit one either.

 

The whole TM30 issue is fraught with inconsistency but unless there's overwhelming evidence that the TM30 requirement is being 101% enforced on EVERY exit/re-entry, ALL 90-day reporters and on ALL extension renewals, I would tend to keep below the radar until pestered for one. Very likely that such a belated request will be accompanied with a modest fine which is pretty silly since it's been THEIR lack of oversight that has allowed the 'victim' to dodge TM30 filing before but that's just one of the many, wonderful things that we bend over, hold our ankles and take like a man we like about living here, isn't it?

[Russell17au]

just a quick question, does anybody know how strict Khon Kaen is with the TM30?

[jojothai]

On 11/19/2017 at 1:45 PM, NanLaew said:

With the OP saying that he's been in LOS for 'some years', I think it's safe to say that he and his wife have possibly filed at least one extension and have departed and returned a few times and never been asked for the TM30 despite it being 'required' at Chiang Mai immigration for over 2 years already. The TM30 has been a 'feature' of Jomtien Immigration for maybe over a year now but there's still evidence that the bulk of extension renewers and 90-day reporters don't get asked for it and furthermore, they go in and out of the country a couple or three times a year and never submit one either.

 

The whole TM30 issue is fraught with inconsistency but unless there's overwhelming evidence that the TM30 requirement is being 101% enforced on EVERY exit/re-entry, ALL 90-day reporters and on ALL extension renewals, I would tend to keep below the radar until pestered for one. Very likely that such a belated request will be accompanied with a modest fine which is pretty silly since it's been THEIR lack of oversight that has allowed the 'victim' to dodge TM30 filing before but that's just one of the many, wonderful things that we bend over, hold our ankles and take like a man we like about living here, isn't it?

The law is the law. Listen to Ubonjoe and the others telling you what the law is.

Take your own risk as you please, but I would not advise others to do so.

f you had read the many posts in TV the last year or two you would know that it started as a big problem in Chiang Mai and is not to be ignored there in particular.

I presume you are aware that registered hotels etc have to do the reporting when you stay.

The problem is mainly when you are staying in unregistered accomodation, renting apartment / staying with friends.

The basic requirement is not difficult to comply with if you are staying in one place.

If you move around regularly staying in unregistered accom it it is potentially a bigger problem.

However, the problem will normally only surface if you have to go to immigration in relation to your visa, eg extension.

 

I have two condos rented out in Jomtien and as you say the officers there do know about and have started asking for TM30's.

Maybe not all the time and i hear that they have tended to be lenient on people initially claiming that they did not know. However people are getting fined and numbers will increase if people ignore it.

I have given my tenants the forms necessary to report and a special form giving them the power to report themselves and other foreigners with them in the condo. I have revised their tenancies last Jan / Feb making the requirement clear and that they are responsible for any fines incurred by their failure to report when they re-enter Thailand.

In theory I could get fined as well as them. Why should I be accused of breaking the law?

Would you accept lawbreakers making you also accountable for their failure to do what is a legal requirement?

 

The TM 30 requirement is spreading and has expanded to other places, including Hua Hin.

I would be surprised if the authorities in places like Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui. etc turn their blind eye to such an income opportunity that may rarely come along gift wrapped for them.

I do not know how many other districts are imposing the law. but I would expect that it is increasing. Best search TV.

 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, jojothai said:

The law is the law.

You have figured out how to easily deal with the requirements in Jomtien, but do not imagine these bear anything but a passing similarity to the requirements laid out in Section 37 and Section 38 of the Thai Immigration Act of 1979. The law as written is completely impractical, and fortunately what is enforced (which varies greatly from area to area) is never the literal letter of the law.

[jojothai]

29 minutes ago, BritTim said:

You have figured out how to easily deal with the requirements in Jomtien, but do not imagine these bear anything but a passing similarity to the requirements laid out in Section 37 and Section 38 of the Thai Immigration Act of 1979. The law as written is completely impractical, and fortunately what is enforced (which varies greatly from area to area) is never the literal letter of the law.

I believe that thai immigration have tried to make the requirements in relation to the TM30 clear on their website.

As I understand it is based on law from 1979,  but not enforced until about 2 years ago.

 

I agree that it is completely impractical to be re-registering everywhere a foreigner stays more than 24 hours.

 

You have to bear in mind that the current govern..   powers that be want full control. That covers things like plans for telephone registering and tracking, single gateway internet, and also logically where you stay.