Ahab Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 7 hours ago, transam said: And what you were born with.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 1:56 AM, Once Bitten said: I wonder how many of us confirmed atheists when taking our last breaths on earth would blurt out the words ..Oh God I don't want to die Safer being a Deist and that is closest to what I really believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Ahab said: ? Genes.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 3:53 PM, seancbk said: I know for sure there isn't a heaven or a hell. Life is merely bioelectricity, once the process of generating electricity stops so does life. LOL. How do you know that the mind doesn't continue after this body stops, but in a different environment? I'm aware that it's all electricity, but everything is, not just a body. Even gas molecules are just electricity holding subatomic particles together. Our mind could be transferred to a different mode of support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 4:56 PM, Once Bitten said: I wonder how many of us confirmed atheists when taking our last breaths on earth would blurt out the words ..Oh God I don't want to die There are no atheists on a battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 12:52 PM, balo said: I believe in science so in the future we can transfer our brain to a new body , grown in a lab. A copy of ourselves. then just carry on with the same brain so you don't lose your identity. If anyone in the future reads this come and pick me up. Just for the sake of assumption, if that is true, all those trillions of minds in substitute bodies will still all die when the universe ends, as it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: There are no atheists on a battlefield. Sure there are. They are everywhere and I am sure they are represented on a battlefield at the same percentage they are represented everywhere else. In fact in a battlefield where the Soviets were involved, everyone on the soviet side and some on the other side were atheists. Now you might say that some of them were not real atheists and when it came down to it, they begged for God's help, but conversely one could also argue that after viewing the horrors of war a religious person could reject God. Now if you were to say that on a battlefield some might grasp at straws, I would agree . I also would like to add that some of as, when we are about to die should wish there is no God given the place we would be going if there was one! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, sirineou said: Sure there are. They are everywhere and I am sure they are represented on a battlefield at the same percentage they are represented everywhere else. In fact in a battlefield where the Soviets were involved, everyone on the soviet side and some on the other side were atheists. Now you might say that some of them were not real atheists and when it came down to it, they begged for God's help, but conversely one could also argue that after viewing the horrors of war a religious person could reject God. Now if you were to say that on a battlefield some might grasp at straws, I would agree . I also would like to add that some of as, when we are about to die should wish there is no God given the place we would be going if there was one! What did I say that was confusing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, sirineou said: What did I say that was confusing? Who's confused? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: On 2/24/2018 at 3:53 PM, seancbk said: I know for sure there isn't a heaven or a hell. Life is merely bioelectricity, once the process of generating electricity stops so does life. LOL. How do you know that the mind doesn't continue after this body stops, but in a different environment? I'm aware that it's all electricity, but everything is, not just a body. Even gas molecules are just electricity holding subatomic particles together. Our mind could be transferred to a different mode of support. 'Free' electricity ie the charge holding atomic particles together has no function for storing memories in itself. It is merely the energy that keeps memories alive in a structure that can hold them. The same as a computer memory chip is powered by those free flowing electrons but once the current is removed the 'memory' ceases to exist. Dissipating your remaining electrical energy into the ground and atmosphere once the ability to generate a constant flow of energy within your body wouldn't transfer your memories to a different mode of support, as there isn't one. It might one day be possible to transfer the energy into a fresh body, but I believe that is a long way off. More likely is we figure out how to copy it to a computer. Either way that would not constitute heaven or hell. No matter how many evil thoughts and actions I have, it isn't going to result in an eternity of discomfort. Death is like sleep without dreams and without waking up. Every time you switch off for the night you are accepting that you might not wake up, therefore you are accepting death without much fuss. Strange really that people make so much fuss about dying yet if they didn't wake from sleep they wouldn't even be aware they'd died. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, seancbk said: Strange really that people make so much fuss about dying yet if they didn't wake from sleep they wouldn't even be aware they'd died. It's the concept of never waking up and no longer having a conscious "self" that's frightening, as inevitable as it might be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, giddyup said: It's the concept of never waking up and no longer having a conscious "self" that's frightening, as inevitable as it might be. That is just the mind, the illusory 'me' talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 minute ago, soalbundy said: That is just the mind, the illusory 'me' talking. Explain that to the majority of people who fear death. The "me" is what we know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 minute ago, giddyup said: Explain that to the majority of people who fear death. The "me" is what we know. The 'me' is pathetic when you think about it, what is it but a collection of memories from the now none existent past, a series of transient sensations and feelings, hope in a not yet existing future and the illusion of control, not such a loss that will fall away at death. There is a life essence that is keeping you alive at this moment, you aren't keeping your heart beating or digesting your food,neither are you in control of the anti-bodies fighting disease, you aren't consciously breathing, in, out, in, out, or holding your body at the right temperature. Where were 'you' when your fathers sperm entered your mothers egg? You are a manifestation of consciousness, the 'one' and you will return to that source, just not as 'me'. You have not been 'me' for eternity before 'you' were born, it didn't hurt did it? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 minute ago, soalbundy said: The 'me' is pathetic when you think about it, what is it but a collection of memories from the now none existent past, a series of transient sensations and feelings, hope in a not yet existing future and the illusion of control, not such a loss that will fall away at death. There is a life essence that is keeping you alive at this moment, you aren't keeping your heart beating or digesting your food,neither are you in control of the anti-bodies fighting disease, you aren't consciously breathing, in, out, in, out, or holding your body at the right temperature. Where were 'you' when your fathers sperm entered your mothers egg? You are a manifestation of consciousness, the 'one' and you will return to that source, just not as 'me'. You have not been 'me' for eternity before 'you' were born, it didn't hurt did it? The concept of being "unborn" is too hard for most people to grasp once you become a living, conscious being. To lose all sensory abilities and return to a nothingness is not something to look forward to, although in a lot of cases, especially when aging and suffering ill-health, it may be a relief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, giddyup said: Explain that to the majority of people who fear death. The "me" is what we know. Who is this 'me' that knows 'me' It is awareness, the presence that was never born nor will ever die, you are known by this awareness, you are this awareness. Edited February 26, 2018 by soalbundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, soalbundy said: Who is this 'me' that knows 'me' It is awareness, the presence that was never born nor will ever die, you are known by this awareness, you are this awareness. Where was this 'awareness" before you were born? I don't remember it. Edited February 26, 2018 by giddyup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, giddyup said: The concept of being "unborn" is too hard for most people to grasp once you become a living, conscious being. To lose all sensory abilities and return to a nothingness is not something to look forward to, although in a lot of cases, especially when aging and suffering ill-health, it may be a relief. Up until the age of two or so, you had no concept of 'me', only bodily sensations, you saw the world without conceptualizing it, you were one with it because you had no language to conceptualize things, after a while when your mother kept referring to you as little Billy you realized, that is me, I am separate, the tree isn't me, the garden isn't me, you lost true consciousness/awareness and replaced it with 'me', a bad swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, giddyup said: Where was this 'awareness" before you were born? I don't remember it. The finite 'me' cannot know the infinite. The quarks, electrons etc that make up your brain (there is no 'matter' as such, just energy) are manifestations of the one consciousness, it is therefore finite,manifested at the time of your creation, it has a birth and it will die. That which brought about and is aware of this manifestation, your true essence (you are this consciousness) cannot be known by the finite mind but it can be felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, soalbundy said: Up until the age of two or so, you had no concept of 'me', only bodily sensations, you saw the world without conceptualizing it, you were one with it because you had no language to conceptualize things, after a while when your mother kept referring to you as little Billy you realized, that is me, I am separate, the tree isn't me, the garden isn't me, you lost true consciousness/awareness and replaced it with 'me', a bad swap. 8 minutes ago, soalbundy said: The finite 'me' cannot know the infinite. The quarks, electrons etc that make up your brain (there is no 'matter' as such, just energy) are manifestations of the one consciousness, it is therefore finite,manifested at the time of your creation, it has a birth and it will die. That which brought about and is aware of this manifestation, your true essence (you are this consciousness) cannot be known by the finite mind but it can be felt. In other words a return to "nothingness". I had an operation recently where I was given a general anaesthetic. That's the closest I can conceptualize death. It was truly a "nothingness" for 2 hours, but it could have just as easily been eternity. Edited February 26, 2018 by giddyup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Just now, giddyup said: In other words a return to "nothingness". Perhaps, 'we' can't know that, I am not a spiritual teacher. Some of the oldest spiritual teachings point to there being nothing (no-thing) in the first place. Everything perceived is one because we are all part of the same 'dream' if you like. If, as some of the most ancient teachings (Advaita Vedanta,I believe that translates to 'one,not two') say is correct (very loosely described) then there is one universal consciousness,the power of which creates and veils its true nature, 'Maya',everything in the universe exists due to this one consciousness and is pervaded by it and exists within consciousness and so everything is an illusion since the 'creation' cannot continue to be of its own accord. This finds resonance even with some scientists,James Jeans, an English physicist,mathematician and astronomer once remarked that the universe resembles more a thought than a great machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, giddyup said: In other words a return to "nothingness". I had an operation recently where I was given a general anaesthetic. That's the closest I can conceptualize death. It was truly a "nothingness" for 2 hours, but it could have just as easily been eternity. Yes, I have had the same experience, but 'time' is also a mystery in itself, does it exist or is it a construct of the mind? physicists are themselves confused about it and many adopt the 'block model' as being the easiest thing to do but the mystery remains. As you get older time seems to run faster, it is subjective. People who have had near death experiences where they meet their dead relatives etc. report that they felt that hours or even days had past during this experience and yet they were only clinically dead for 3 minuets. Time apparently is also part of the manifestation, there can be no time in infinity, how long is infinity? how many years does it have? it must be zero, it just is. This might interest you, I have posted this before, it is an interview with Tony Parsons, he used to be a businessman and publisher and is the author of 'The open secret' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 15 hours ago, giddyup said: Who's confused? in my reply #142 s few replies further up on the page a poster responded with a "confused" icon. And I was wondering what in my reply was confusing, that's all , No biggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) yes, i find strength in that life will only get worse, either ending up paralyzed or more pain, or both, death is less miserable. of course, hanging in a morgue & being suspect to autopsy buggers me, i wish i could dodge it. yet another humiliation even when i'm dead, looks like not just life is a bitch Edited February 27, 2018 by poanoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 hours ago, poanoi said: yes, i find strength in that life will only get worse, either ending up paralyzed or more pain, or both, death is less miserable. of course, hanging in a morgue & being suspect to autopsy buggers me, i wish i could dodge it. yet another humiliation even when i'm dead, looks like not just life is a bitch I bet you're a ball of fun at parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, soalbundy said: I bet you're a ball of fun at parties. Fun is only an illusion experienced by the "not me". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, giddyup said: Fun is only an illusion experienced by the "not me". 5555555 but as Tony Parsons said, emotions happen, just not for anyone as long as you don't have the 'me' anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, soalbundy said: 5555555 but as Tony Parsons said, emotions happen, just not for anyone as long as you don't have the 'me' anymore. I tried to watch the video you posted, but I never heard so much gobbledegook in all my life. The poor reporter had no idea what he was on about, and I suspect neither do most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, giddyup said: I tried to watch the video you posted, but I never heard so much gobbledegook in all my life. The poor reporter had no idea what he was on about, and I suspect neither do most people. He resonated with me although as he himself said it was a tad radical but that message is even there in the bible, "deny yourself" ie the 'me' "be as little children" ie be the way you were before you learnt to conceptualize and see yourself as a separate entity.He also said that the 'me' would in most cases reject this message as it doesn't want to die. none duality is a theme that runs through all ancient teachings and has been found to be true by modern mystics, Ramana Maharshi,even today one of the most respected and influential (even though he no longer lives) person in India summed it up when he raised one hand to the sky and pointed with one hand to the world and said "I am that" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, soalbundy said: Ramana Maharshi,even today one of the most respected and influential (even though he no longer lives) person in India summed it up when he raised one hand to the sky and pointed with one hand to the world and said "I am that" That makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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