You are Going to Die – Are You Ready

[balo]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously, old age sucks, and not in a good way.

 

We are all different , a change in lifestyle could prevent that , my dad lived until he was 92 and died not so long time ago . He was out walking with his dog untl a few weeks before he passed away , I never heard he complained much about his old age even if he probably had some pain in his knees. 

 

The best thing you can do is to move around every day , and do not drink or smoke too much .  My dad did not drink  but he was a chain smoker until 85 , but the cigarettes did not kill him .  He loved fishing and every week he was out in his boat together with his dog , he had a great life at his old age until 92.

 

So its possible , yes you need some luck on the way - 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tippaporn]

5 hours ago, bazza73 said:

No we are not. We are matter. We can produce energy if our bodies are cremated; however, we then react to form mostly carbon dioxide and water, with a few oxides of nitrogen as well. That is still matter.

So anyone who agrees with you is intelligent, and anyone who begs to differ is unintelligent. What BS.

Let me know when you start passing the collection plate around so I can absent myself.

If you're unfamiliar with quantum physics then check it out.  Quantum physics suggests that all matter is composed of energy.  Here's one link.  There are many.

 

As to the next statement it's utterly false.  Never implied any such thing.  I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not, which I've stated outright multiple times.  You're talking trash with that statement.  That's not a judgement.  It's simply fact.

 

Collection plate?  Why do you need to create fabrications?  Come on, bazza.  Be better than that.

 

Giddyup seemed to love your response so I wouldn't expect much quality input from him as well.  Anyone else have something worthwhile to contribute?

Edited November 28, 2017 by Tippaporn

[bazza73]

5 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

If you're unfamiliar with quantum physics then check it out.  Quantum physics suggests that all matter is composed of energy.  Here's one link.  There are many.

 

As to the next statement it's utterly false.  Never implied any such thing.  I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not, which I've stated outright multiple times.  You're talking trash with that statement.  That's not a judgement.  It's simply fact.

 

Collection plate?  Why do you need to create fabrications?  Come on, bazza.  Be better than that.

 

Giddyup seemed to love your response so I wouldn't expect much quality input from him as well.  Anyone else have something worthwhile to contribute?

I am familiar with E=mc2. So what?

You are just putting forward another belief set, like so many before you. Cloaked in the usual waffle.

When you make a statement " At last, an intelligent response...." the implication is that every poster before that response is unintelligent. Simple logic. " I wouldn't expect much quality input from him as well"? You condemn yourself out of your own mouth. In Australia, it's called coming the raw prawn.

The comment about the collection plate arises from my perception you are trying to convert others to your way of thinking. It's called proselytism. I'm not buying it.

 

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, bazza73 said:

I am familiar with E=mc2. So what?

You are just putting forward another belief set, like so many before you. Cloaked in the usual waffle.

When you make a statement " At last, an intelligent response...." the implication is that every poster before that response is unintelligent. Simple logic. " I wouldn't expect much quality input from him as well"? You condemn yourself out of your own mouth. In Australia, it's called coming the raw prawn.

The comment about the collection plate arises from my perception you are trying to convert others to your way of thinking. It's called proselytism. I'm not buying it.

 

Geez, bazza, you stated matter is not energy so I provided you with a link to quantum physics which states that everything is composed of energy.  You reply with a brusque, ". . . e=mc². So what?" answer.  What does e=mc², the theory of relativity, have to do with quantum physics?  Why not respond directly to the evidence I provided which backs up my statement?  Correct yourself or admit that quantum physics has it wrong?  It's not that big of a deal to do so.

 

seancbk did provide an intelligent response.  You provided a good initial post and challenged me as well.  As to all of the other responses to my posts, would you consider them intelligent responses or trash talking?  I'll ask again so you don't miss answering, would you consider the other responses to my posts intelligent responses or trash talking?  As far as I'm concerned they are what they are.  An orange is an orange and an apple is an apple.  I don't confuse the two.  Nor do I sugarcoat.

 

As to my expectations of any future response from giddyup, given his previous responses, which were trash, why would I expect a quality response?  Simple logic, right?  But then again I could be wrong about him.  In which case I would happily admit it.  Why, I would even offer him a sincere apology.  But I confronted him with his own hypocrisy and he wouldn't address it.  He had two opportunities to do so but chose to double down on talking trash.  Gut feeling and logic leave me feeling doubtful that he'd turn it around.  So, no, I wouldn't agree that I'm condemning myself out of my own mouth.  I'm making a judgement called based on the evidence thus far.

 

Your perception re my trying to convert anyone is wrong.  It is flat out wrong.  I've clearly stated multiple times that I'm not religious and that I have no interest in changing anyone's beliefs about anything.  I've stated as well that doing so is, in fact, a foolish endeavor.  Yet some posters, regardless, keep on with the meme that I'm trying to "sell" something.  Please explain to me why you keep insisting on pushing that falsity.  Please do so.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Tippaporn

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 As to my expectations of any future response from giddyup, given his previous responses, which were trash

 

Trash? Because I asked you to prove your assertion that you knew what happens when we die? Hate to back you into a corner, but I'm still waiting, and I don't need pages of quotes lifted off the internet, but a simple, straightforward answer, something I doubt you are capable of. You come across as someone filled with their own self-importance, who sees all others as lesser beings, but I just see you as a windbag.

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Trash? Because I asked you to prove your assertion that you knew what happens when we die? Hate to back you into a corner, but I'm still waiting, and I don't need pages of quotes lifted off the internet, but a simple, straightforward answer, something I doubt you are capable of. You come across as someone filled with their own self-importance, who sees all others as lesser beings, but I just see you as a windbag.

I gave you an explicit answer, giddyup.  I'll leave you to all of your other misconceptions.

 

 

[bazza73]

23 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Geez, bazza, you stated matter is not energy so I provided you with a link to quantum physics which states that everything is composed of energy.  You reply with a brusque, ". . . e=mc². So what?" answer.  What does e=mc², the theory of relativity, have to do with quantum physics?  Why not respond directly to the evidence I provided which backs up my statement?  Correct yourself or admit that quantum physics has it wrong?  It's not that big of a deal to do so.

 

seancbk did provide an intelligent response.  You provided a good initial post and challenged me as well.  As to all of the other responses to my posts, would you consider them intelligent responses or trash talking?  I'll ask again so you don't miss answering, would you consider the other responses to my posts intelligent responses or trash talking?  As far as I'm concerned they are what they are.  An orange is an orange and an apple is an apple.  I don't confuse the two.  Nor do I sugarcoat.

 

As to my expectations of any future response from giddyup, given his previous responses, which were trash, why would I expect a quality response?  Simple logic, right?  But then again I could be wrong about him.  In which case I would happily admit it.  Why, I would even offer him a sincere apology.  But I confronted him with his own hypocrisy and he wouldn't address it.  He had two opportunities to do so but chose to double down on talking trash.  Gut feeling and logic leave me feeling doubtful that he'd turn it around.  So, no, I wouldn't agree that I'm condemning myself out of my own mouth.  I'm making a judgement called based on the evidence thus far.

 

Your perception re my trying to convert anyone is wrong.  It is flat out wrong.  I've clearly stated multiple times that I'm not religious and that I have no interest in changing anyone's beliefs about anything.  I've stated as well that doing so is, in fact, a foolish endeavor.  Yet some posters, regardless, keep on with the meme that I'm trying to "sell" something.  Please explain to me why you keep insisting on pushing that falsity.  Please do so.

 

 

 

 

Your problem can be expressed in one word. Sentience.

It is all very well to come out with some theory about energy being immortal because it cannot be created or destroyed, although black holes, naked singularities and event horizons do play merry hell with that proposition.

Let's say energy is immortal. If it is not organized into a sentient pattern or being, then what's the point of it? Apart from the ghosts believed in by more credulous humans, can anyone truthfully claim they have encountered a sentient organism that has evolved after the process of death?

You, like many before you, have built a belief system on a central tenet - this time quantum physics. The most fundamental logical flaw is the incorrect assumption. Sentience.

Arthur C Clarke came up with a very astute observation in his science fiction classic, "Childhood's End". He said if mankind could go back with real-time vision of the lives of Abraham, Jesus,  Mohammed etc. the religions based around them would fade into nothing, because we would see what actually happened, not just what was written about them.

OK, you are not trying to convert anyone to your way of thinking - you just want intelligent debate. What you are arguing seems to me to be lifted from the intelligent design template.

 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I gave you an explicit answer, giddyup.  I'll leave you to all of your other misconceptions.

 

 

 

ex·plic·it

ikˈsplisit/

adjective

adjective: explicit

1.

stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.

"the speaker's intentions were not made explicit"

synonyms:clear, plain, straightforward, crystal clear, easily understandable; 

 

Really?

 

 

[Kwasaki]

54 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't need pages of quotes lifted off the internet

 I just see you as a windbag

Or a vainglorious person I got that from the internet. 

 

[Tippaporn]

25 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 

ex·plic·it

ikˈsplisit/

adjective

adjective: explicit

1.

stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.

"the speaker's intentions were not made explicit"

synonyms:clear, plain, straightforward, crystal clear, easily understandable; 

 

Really?

 

 

If you choose to not accept it as a valid answer then I'm fine with that.

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Or a vainglorious person I got that from the internet. 

 

Very clever, Kwasaki.  Good on you.

 

Well, then, this is going nowhere.  LOL.  I'll spend my time elsewhere.

[bazza73]

44 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Very clever, Kwasaki.  Good on you.

 

Well, then, this is going nowhere.  LOL.  I'll spend my time elsewhere.

Loosely translated, that means " I don't like this game anymore, so I'm taking my bat and ball, and going home".

[Gruff]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

Trash? Because I asked you to prove your assertion that you knew what happens when we die? Hate to back you into a corner, but I'm still waiting, and I don't need pages of quotes lifted off the internet, but a simple, straightforward answer, something I doubt you are capable of. You come across as someone filled with their own self-importance, who sees all others as lesser beings, but I just see you as a windbag.

Don't 'mince your words' Giddyup !

[Gruff]

17 hours ago, balo said:

 

We are all different , a change in lifestyle could prevent that , my dad lived until he was 92 and died not so long time ago . He was out walking with his dog untl a few weeks before he passed away , I never heard he complained much about his old age even if he probably had some pain in his knees. 

 

The best thing you can do is to move around every day , and do not drink or smoke too much .  My dad did not drink  but he was a chain smoker until 85 , but the cigarettes did not kill him .  He loved fishing and every week he was out in his boat together with his dog , he had a great life at his old age until 92.

 

So its possible , yes you need some luck on the way - 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bit contradictory isn't it, don't drink or smoke much but my Dad smoked until 85 and it did not kill him!  Your dad is just one individual, we are all dfferent.

[garryjohns]

5 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Loosely translated, that means " I don't like this game anymore, so I'm taking my bat and ball, and going home".

Yep, and its much the same as the childish and oft quoted you are now on my "ignore list"

[seancbk]

On 11/28/2017 at 1:58 PM, Tippaporn said:

An intelligent reply . . . finally.  Thank you.

 

 

You are welcome.

 

On 11/28/2017 at 1:58 PM, Tippaporn said:

Another truth science has recognized, and one that I agree is valid, is that energy cannot be destroyed.  It can only be transmuted.  We know very, very, very little of who we truly are (O.K., in my opinion).  So I'll deliver another punch line.  Everything that is known is composed of energy.  We are composed of energy.  We are energy.  And since energy cannot be destroyed we are then . . . eternal.  No need to devise a technological means to give you eternal life.  We have it already.

 

 

Whilst energy cannot be destroyed, it also cannot carry any information (unless we manipulate it but for the purposes of this discussion you and I are talking about raw potential energy stored in our bodies).   When we die the energy cannot and does not have any part of who we were.  The energy when it makes us 'live' is merely the fuel that powers the processes that make us 'us'.   The fuel is not 'us' anymore than petrol or electricity in a car knows it is in that car.

 

On 11/28/2017 at 1:58 PM, Tippaporn said:

BTW, seanbck, while our technology has created marvelous toys and devices and plenty of weapons for death and destruction as well I, myself, would not hold out for technology to produce eternal life for us.  And what for???  We're eternal anyway.  Besides, living inside a box doesn't seem appealing to me.  What if someone tripped over the power chord?  How would you have sex?  

 

In any case, thanks for a decent reply, seancbk.

We are not eternal.  Our atoms maybe but our memories and everything that makes us who we are only exists as long as energy (cellular electricity in our brains) continues to be present.

As for living in a virtual environment, everything you 'experience' right now such as taste, sight, sound, and the sensations of sex exist in your brain.  There is no reason why if your brain exists as a virtual construct in a quantum computer, that you wouldn't be able to eat, feel, see, hear etc as if still existing in your original body.   

 

[GarryP]

13 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

You are welcome.

 

 

Whilst energy cannot be destroyed, it also cannot carry any information (unless we manipulate it but for the purposes of this discussion you and I are talking about raw potential energy stored in our bodies).   When we die the energy cannot and does not have any part of who we were.  The energy when it makes us 'live' is merely the fuel that powers the processes that make us 'us'.   The fuel is not 'us' anymore than petrol or electricity in a car knows it is in that car.

 

We are not eternal.  Our atoms maybe but our memories and everything that makes us who we are only exists as long as energy (cellular electricity in our brains) continues to be present.

As for living in a virtual environment, everything you 'experience' right now such as taste, sight, sound, and the sensations of sex exist in your brain.  There is no reason why if your brain exists as a virtual construct in a quantum computer, that you wouldn't be able to eat, feel, see, hear etc as if still existing in your original body.   

 

You could still enjoy sex virtually? Sounds good to me.

[seancbk]

3 minutes ago, GarryP said:

You could still enjoy sex virtually? Sounds good to me.

With a blue skinned woman with 3 breasts, while hanging from a tree using your own prehensile tail. 

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, seancbk said:

With a blue skinned woman with 3 breasts, while hanging from a tree using your own prehensile tail. 

 Well, you never know. Could be fun. 

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

You are welcome.

 

 

Whilst energy cannot be destroyed, it also cannot carry any information (unless we manipulate it but for the purposes of this discussion you and I are talking about raw potential energy stored in our bodies).   When we die the energy cannot and does not have any part of who we were.  The energy when it makes us 'live' is merely the fuel that powers the processes that make us 'us'.   The fuel is not 'us' anymore than petrol or electricity in a car knows it is in that car.

 

We are not eternal.  Our atoms maybe but our memories and everything that makes us who we are only exists as long as energy (cellular electricity in our brains) continues to be present.

As for living in a virtual environment, everything you 'experience' right now such as taste, sight, sound, and the sensations of sex exist in your brain.  There is no reason why if your brain exists as a virtual construct in a quantum computer, that you wouldn't be able to eat, feel, see, hear etc as if still existing in your original body.   

 

Well, now, you've tempted me to reply, seancbk, and I think I will.  But . . . at the moment, and most likely through the weekend, work is suffocating my time.  But I will reply as soon as I can breathe again.

 

Just one, quick comment.  I've come to the conclusion long ago that it is not within my (and our) purview to declare what is possible in this world and what is not.  Can technology provide a virtual reality to extend life?  That's something I've never considered and would have to think about.  I will say, though, that I believe it would be impossible if the virtual environment was a Microsoft product.

 

bazza, for whatever reason I did not see your last response to me before I bowed out.  I have some comments about what you wrote as well.

[bazza73]

14 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

bazza, for whatever reason I did not see your last response to me before I bowed out.  I have some comments about what you wrote as well.

You are making the assumption I am still interested in what you have to say.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 11/19/2017 at 3:34 PM, Once Bitten said:

So now I'm wondering what others here think on the subject .  You have done all the family legal stuff and necessary paper work and you are trying to stay healthy with diet and exercise but that little voice inside your head  keeps reminding you.  The sands of time are running out .   

 

So how are you mentally preparing your self , how are you mentally coming to terms with your own inevitable demise and what if any advice can you offer to other's .

 

You appear to be suffering from some form of mental illness.

Why think and worry about stuff you can't prevent?

[steven100]

don't worry ..............  we are all going to kark it one day ....  after that let the others burn you or throw you in the ground.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:13 AM, seancbk said:

 

I will tell you what I believe.   The human brain operates on a mere 20 watts of electricity, barely enough to run a dim light bulb, yet with that low power we have a biological quantum computer that in many ways outperforms even the best supercomputers.  But what happens to the electricity coursing through a computer when you turn it off?  Does that electricity jump somewhere else?  No, it simply stops flowing and the computer stops working.   The same happens to our human computers (us), once the power stops we stop.  The electricity flowing through our brains is not "us" it doesn't contain anything it is merely the energy that makes our biological computers work.  Death is the end for us in the same way pulling the plug on a PC turns it off and it is no longer a functioning item.

Ultimately, whilst I hope I'm around when humanity changes from biological to digital, chances are pretty slim and even if I am around the first people to get the opportunity will be the world's billionaires (trillionaires in 30 years most likely).    Start saving Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies if you want to have a chance at being amongst the first billion people to become immortal.

 

The weak spot in your argument is that no one has discovered how to initiate life, as distinct from a lump of meat that doesn't do anything.

You can't plug a biological form into an electrical outlet and make it work.

If you could make a human shaped entity with all the correct bits to feel, think, reproduce etc, and make it alive, you would be "god".

 

BTW you don't know anymore than anyone else what happens to human consciousness after the body that carries "us" around ceases working. Like everyone else you can only make an educated guess, but there is no way you can prove it one way or another.

Far as I know, no one can explain why we sometimes think of someone just before that person contacts us, and many other such examples of unexplainable phenomena.

 

IMO the idea of being around for ever is not my idea of a good thing.

In your scenario, people like Hitler, Stalin and Mao could be immortal.

[seancbk]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The weak spot in your argument is that no one has discovered how to initiate life, as distinct from a lump of meat that doesn't do anything.

You can't plug a biological form into an electrical outlet and make it work.

If you could make a human shaped entity with all the correct bits to feel, think, reproduce etc, and make it alive, you would be "god".

However, once we can copy exactly what is going on in a living human brain, perhaps we will discover that we can transfer (copy) a consciousness from a human to a computer.  The key is sufficiently powerful quantum computers.

 

 

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

BTW you don't know anymore than anyone else what happens to human consciousness after the body that carries "us" around ceases working. Like everyone else you can only make an educated guess, but there is no way you can prove it one way or another.

Far as I know, no one can explain why we sometimes think of someone just before that person contacts us, and many other such examples of unexplainable phenomena.

I'm educated enough to know that 'electrical energy' that was once contained in a living human does not carry any memories, when it dissipates after the person dies.   Energy is energy, it isn't the data.

 

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the idea of being around for ever is not my idea of a good thing.

In your scenario, people like Hitler, Stalin and Mao could be immortal.

I'm sure we'd develop suitable controls to deal with people like that.   We could even create our own version of hell to put them in.

 

Immortality in a digital realm would not be the same as immortality in a human body.  

 

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

However, once we can copy exactly what is going on in a living human brain, perhaps we will discover that we can transfer (copy) a consciousness from a human to a computer.  The key is sufficiently powerful quantum computers.

 

 

I'm educated enough to know that 'electrical energy' that was once contained in a living human does not carry any memories, when it dissipates after the person dies.   Energy is energy, it isn't the data.

 

I'm sure we'd develop suitable controls to deal with people like that.   We could even create our own version of hell to put them in.

 

Immortality in a digital realm would not be the same as immortality in a human body.  

 

I'm just wondering if you have read Roger Zelazny's novelette " For a Breath I Tarry". Very similar type of concept. Only reversed, so the computer is eventually assuming the identity of a human.

 

"Regard this piece of ice, mighty Frost. You can tell me its composition, dimensions, weight, temperature. A Man could not look at it and do that. A Man could make tools which would tell Him these things, but He still would not know measurement as you know it. What He would know of it, though, is a thing that you cannot know."
   "What is that?"
   "That it is cold."

Edited December 1, 2017 by bazza73
Zelazny quote

[bazza73]

8 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 

You appear to be suffering from some form of mental illness.

Why think and worry about stuff you can't prevent?

I believe the expression is worrywart. Some people find happiness in it, strange as that may seem.

[totally thaied up]

 

9 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 

You appear to be suffering from some form of mental illness.

Why think and worry about stuff you can't prevent?

 

43 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

I believe the expression is worrywart. Some people find happiness in it, strange as that may seem.

We all suffer from some form of mental illness. Just some more than others. I have voices in my head and not joking about it, relatives of mine say I have the devil in me. I think it is laughable but still, people in this world (and these people are very well educated)  believe this. I believe death is much more natural than living in such a world of such rhetoric and megalomania and for me, maybe death seems comforting. 

 

The day you can download my mind into a box having my body function as it is now, but without pain and ability to be able to interact physically, if that ever happened, that is when we have become our own Gods. Like all things to such issues and such power, whoever has the key to our power source, will ultimately be our Master.

 

You see, that is the problem. We in some sense will always have someone or something to control us. 

 

What is the old saying? ''You cannot beat death and taxes.''

[bazza73]

21 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

 

 

We all suffer from some form of mental illness. Just some more than others. I have voices in my head and not joking about it, relatives of mine say I have the devil in me. I think it is laughable but still, people in this world (and these people are very well educated)  believe this. I believe death is much more natural than living in such a world of such rhetoric and megalomania and for me, maybe death seems comforting. 

 

 

There are many well educated people who believe in an afterlife. Education should not be confused with knowledge or wisdom.

One conundrum that interests me is the Nobel Prize for subject areas such as chemistry and physics.

If one looks at the prizewinners in those fields, there are about 200 Jews coming from a population of about 15 million worldwide.

In contrast, Islam has about 1.5 billion adherents on Planet Earth. Despite the huge population disparity,

Muslims are represented by just two Nobel prizewinners in the sciences.

Possibly we are being swamped by mass insanity already.

[MaeJoMTB]

2 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Muslims are represented by just two Nobel prizewinners in the sciences.

That's because only (99%) white male Anglo Saxons (mostly of Germanic origins) invent stuff.

The whole world we live in was made by white men.