German parties at impasse as deadline passes with no deal

[webfact]

German parties at impasse as deadline passes with no deal

By Thorsten Severin and Hans-Edzard Busemann

 

Germany’s would-be coalition partners appeared to be stalled over the thorny issue of immigration policy on Sunday despite inching closer to agreement on other major sticking points including climate policy. 

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's would-be coalition partners appeared to have reached an impasse over immigration policy as a self-imposed Sunday evening deadline for agreeing the outlines of a government programme passed with no deal.

 

A deadline of 1700 GMT passed with no announcement being made, suggesting Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives, the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) and the Greens had been unable to agree the painful compromises needed to wrap up talks, which appear set to continue.

 

The reluctant partners were forced to pursue the three-way tie-up, untested at national level, by voters who deserted the main parties of left and right in a September election, returning a highly fragmented parliament.

 

Failure could precipitate Germany's worst political crisis in decades, since the Social Democrats (SPD) have already said they intend to go into opposition after coming second. Options include new elections or a minority government, unprecedented in the country's post-war history.

 

"Everyone has to take a success back home," said Julia Kloeckner, deputy chair of Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU), highlighting the difficulty of compromise. "People must ask themselves if they are prepared for this to fail over details."

 

The tie-up represents Merkel's only realistic chance of securing a fourth term. But the FDP, freshly returned to parliament after four years in the wilderness, and the Greens, out of power for 12 years, are reluctant to put their hard-won return at risk by alienating their rank-and-file.

 

"The FDP is now waiting for the Greens and the conservatives to see how far they are prepared to go and if we can then look each other in the eye," said Greens chairwoman Nicola Beer, suggesting it was now for the others to make concessions.

 

'WE WILL FIGHT'

 

For Merkel's own arch-conservative allies in Bavaria's Christian Social Union (CSU), the stakes are existential. The CSU fears that a failure to secure an immigration cap could fuel a far-right surge in a regional election next year, perhaps even unseating the CSU after 60 years in power.

 

While the FDP continues to demand tax cuts, the trickiest sticking point concerns immigration, where the CSU insists on capping new arrivals at 200,000 a year.

 

The cap is opposed by the Greens, who also want to preserve a rule allowing successful asylum seekers to bring family members to join them - though the CDU's Kloeckner implored the Greens to acknowledge this as only a "subsidiary right".

 

Failure to reach a deal could lead to a new election, something all the parties are anxious to avoid as they fear this could lead to the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) making further gains after surging into parliament in September.

 

"To us it is about humanity. It is about making family reunions possible," top Greens negotiator Michael Kellner told public broadcaster ZDF. "And we will fight for those issues."

 

(Additional reporting by Andreas Rinke; Writing By Thomas Escritt; Editing by Pravin Char and David Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-20

[schlog]

Coalition nonsense is over.

 

Respect to FPD Lindner.

 

Byebye Merkel, Seehofer, Leyen and all the rest of this power suckers.

Good day for Germany and Europe.

[FreddieRoyle]

"To us it is about humanity. It is about making family reunions possible," top Greens negotiator Michael Kellner told public broadcaster ZDF. "And we will fight for those issues."

 

I'm not sure the German leftists have clearly thought out this family reunification. Most estimates are that Germany has taken in 2 million Arabs and Africans over the last 2 years. If each of them brings 20 relatives and family members that would be 40 million of them, and after a couple of years if each of these 40 million bring 20 relatives each there would then be 800 million of them. So within 5 years there could easily be 800 million descendants of the recently arrived Arab and African migrants in Germany. I'm no expert but I sense this could possibly cause stress to the German welfare system, and might not be beneficial to the Germans themselves?

[bert bloggs]

The greens are just as looney in their way as is Merkel in hers , the fact they are the main party in Brighton in the UK says it all ,

[Jonmarleesco]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

"To us it is about humanity. It is about making family reunions possible

It's that that has brought Germany to this point. 

[zydeco]

So much for Merkel as the new leader of the Free World. She can't even lead her own coalition.

[Geoffggi]

It can be summed up in one word "Sovereignty" unfortunately the leaders in most of the western countries cannot see this or choose to ignore it for whatever idiotic reasons.

[webfact]

Merkel fourth term in doubt as German coalition talks fail

By Joseph Nasr and Andreas Rinke

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) speaks to media after the exploratory talks about forming a new coalition government collapsed in Berlin, Germany, November 20, 2017. REUTERS/Hannibal Hanschke

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Monday her efforts to form a three-way coalition government had failed, thrusting Germany into a political crisis and pushing Europe's largest economy closer to a possible new election.

 

The pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) unexpectedly pulled out of more than four weeks of negotiations with Merkel's conservative bloc and the ecologist Greens, citing irreconcilable differences.

 

The euro hit a two-month low against the yen soon after FDP leader Christian Lindner said on Sunday that his party was withdrawing from the talks as the three would-be partners could not find common ground on key issues.

 

A tired looking Merkel said she would stay on as acting chancellor and would consult with President Frank-Walter Steinmeier on how to move forward, adding that a deal had been within reach.

 

"It is a day of deep reflection on how to go forward in Germany," Merkel told reporters. "As chancellor, I will do everything to ensure that this country is well managed in the difficult weeks to come."

 

It was a sobering moment in the career of a woman who during 12 years in power became a symbol of stability, leading the euro zone during its debt crisis and building compromise within the European Union on a deal with Turkey to stem migrant arrivals.

 

Merkel was weakened after a September election as voters angry with her decision in 2015 to open Germany's borders to more than a million asylum seekers punished her conservatives by voting for the Alternative for Germany (AfD) far-right party.

 

The break down of the talks leaves Germany with two unprecedented options in the post-World War Two era: Merkel forms a minority government, or the president calls a new election if no government is formed.

 

The centre-left Social Democrats (SPD), Merkel's current coalition partners who were the second-biggest party in the election, have ruled out a repeat of an alliance with her conservatives, who won the vote but were left with fewer seats.

 

There is little appetite for a new election. The main parties fear that the AfD would win more than the almost 13 percent of votes it secured to enter parliament for the first time as the third-biggest party.

 

'DIFFICULT FOR ECONOMY'

 

Failure to form a government in Europe's largest economy could have implications for everything from euro zone reforms championed by French President Emmanuel Macron to the shape of relations with Britain after it leaves the EU.

 

The next government was also expected to increase spending, raising hopes of more fiscal stimulus for an economy that has been relying on consumption and state spending for growth.

 

While campaigning for a fourth term, Merkel cited the strong performance of an economy that has been growing since 2010 and a record low unemployment rate as reasons for voters to back her conservatives.

 

Economists have accused her of complacency on the economy, saying she should overhaul the tax system to make it more growth-friendly and boost investment on digital infrastructure - demands also made by the FDP.

 

The DIHK Chambers of Industry and Commerce said a prolonged period of uncertainty would be bad for the economy.

 

"There is the danger that work on major issues for the future of our country will be delayed for a prolonged period of time," DIHK President Eric Schweitzer wrote in an email. "German companies must now prepare for a possibly long period of uncertainty. This is always difficult for the economy."

 

The break down of the talks came as a surprise, especially as it was announced by the resurgent FDP, Merkel's preferred coalition partners who had dropped out of parliament four years ago and had ruled with her conservatives during 2009-2013.

 

After its impressive electoral comeback, the FDP's decision to pull out of coalition talks was puzzling, according to Jackson Janes, of the American Institute for Contemporary German Studies at Johns Hopkins University.

 

"And it is also a dangerous game of poker for Germany," Janes added.

 

Immigration was the main sticking point in the negotiations. Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU) and their Christian Social Union (CSU) Bavarian allies had demanded a yearly cap on the number of asylum seekers that Germany accepts each year, a measure rejected by the Greens.

 

There was also discord over conservative proposals to limit the right of some accepted asylum seekers to bring in immediate family members. Merkel said a compromise with the Greens on immigration had also been possible.

 

Government spending, tax cuts and climate policy had also been sticking points.

 

"Today there was no progress but rather there were setbacks because specific compromises were questioned," the FDP's Lindner said. "It is better not to rule than to rule the wrong way. Goodbye!"

 

(Additional reporting by Andrea Shalal; Writing by Joseph Nasr; Editing by Peter Cooney and Simon Cameron-Moore)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-20

[RichardColeman]

Merkel might go home, but her imports wont ! Absolutely ruined Germany this woman singlehandedly.   

[dunroaming]

Bad news for May and Germany if Merkel goes.

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, schlog said:

Coalition nonsense is over.

 

Respect to FPD Lindner.

 

Byebye Merkel, Seehofer, Leyen and all the rest of this power suckers.

Good day for Germany and Europe.

"Coalition nonsense" nonsense

 

Better than UK system

 

Much more democratic!

 

Discuss. Papers on my desk by 09.00 tomorrow!

[maximillian]

The so called Social Democrat (SPD) will join with Merkel's CDU again.

Yesterday they said "No" tomorrow they will say "Yes, please".

Powerhungry suckers, traitors...

[Grouse]

Nothing wrong with a Grand Coalition! You don't want the AfD involved surely?

[mrdome]

14 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

"To us it is about humanity. It is about making family reunions possible," top Greens negotiator Michael Kellner told public broadcaster ZDF. "And we will fight for those issues."

 

I'm not sure the German leftists have clearly thought out this family reunification. Most estimates are that Germany has taken in 2 million Arabs and Africans over the last 2 years. If each of them brings 20 relatives and family members that would be 40 million of them, and after a couple of years if each of these 40 million bring 20 relatives each there would then be 800 million of them. So within 5 years there could easily be 800 million descendants of the recently arrived Arab and African migrants in Germany. I'm no expert but I sense this could possibly cause stress to the German welfare system, and might not be beneficial to the Germans themselves?

Got some real numbers for you, Freddie:

 

2015:  1.091.894 asylum cases

2016:      321.371 asylum cases

 

source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flüchtlingskrise_in_Deutschland_ab_2015#Zahlen_und_Fakten

 

From these you have to deduct the ones that already returned home.

 

Your number of 20 additional ones and 800 million is of course pure fiction to artificially pump up your argument, it's a bad joke really and only undermines your credibility.

 

 

Not sure if this is really the end for Merkel & Seehofer (never liked them, personally and never voted CDU), a minority government is still a possibility, the Social-Democrats might change their mind about being in the opposition now (although, the last 4 years have not been good for them and IMHO they should not change their mind) or the talks could still resume as the president just called for.

 

If there are new elections, I doubt the numbers will be much different, TBH. The question only ever has been, who gets the 3rd most votes and we could erase that shameful result there; that's all one could hope for.

Edited November 20, 2017 by mrdome
missing 'r' added

[observer90210]

Markets already reacted and the €uro started to drop and others may follow, as there is rarely unquestionnable logic in such monetary fluctuations....

[JemJem]

Beginning of the end for Merkel ?!

 

I certainly hope so. As a Turkish person, I am appalled at the agreement she has orchestrated between the EU and Turkey about refugees/migrants. This deal has resulted in not only a significant amount of money going to the corrupt, autocratic, fascist government of Turkey (thus consolidating the power of Erdogan/AKP), but also has resulted in changing the demographics of my country (with an increased security risk), and also of course causing more economic hardship for most Turkish citizens.

 

I am not against refugees/migrants, but in Turkey's case, we are talking about a VERY LARGE number. Countries that are a lot richer than Turkey, like Slovakia and Poland, are whining about only a few thousand refugees/migrants, but Turkey has taken in MILLIONS !!

[mrdome]

1 hour ago, observer90210 said:

Markets already reacted and the €uro started to drop and others may follow, as there is rarely unquestionnable logic in such monetary fluctuations....

And you see that where? Just went to XE.com:

 

The GBP is up a little (was 1.120 something last time I checked and is now at 1.1275 but about 10 days ago it went as high as 1.144 before dropping again to 1.11-ish  -  before the Brexit vote the exchange rate was about 1.31 to the Euro, to keep things in perspective) .

 

The USD is just as soft as since the last time its last slide began, also about 10 days ago; now at 1.1740.

 

These are totally normal fluctuations within the expected parameters.

 

If you're not following the markets on a regular basis in this case and not checking the facts, you just end up not looking so smart.

Edited November 20, 2017 by mrdome
added 1 sentence, corrected 1 spelling error

[mrdome]

42 minutes ago, JemJem said:

Beginning of the end for Merkel ?!

 

I certainly hope so. As a Turkish person, I am appalled at the agreement she has orchestrated between the EU and Turkey about refugees/migrants. This deal has resulted in not only a significant amount of money going to the corrupt, autocratic, fascist government of Turkey (thus consolidating the power of Erdogan/AKP), but also has resulted in changing the demographics of my country (with an increased security risk), and also of course causing more economic hardship for most Turkish citizens.

 

I am not against refugees/migrants, but in Turkey's case, we are talking about a VERY LARGE number. Countries that are a lot richer than Turkey, like Slovakia and Poland, are whining about only a few thousand refugees/migrants, but Turkey has taken in MILLIONS !!

While I agree with you and feel for Turkey, I doubt her predecessor will chart a drastically different course with Erdogan.

 

Someone was always going to be stuck with the bill here

[observer90210]

1 hour ago, mrdome said:

And you see that where? Just went to XE.com:

 

The GBP is up a little (was 1.120 something last time I checked and is now at 1.1275 but about 10 days ago it went as high as 1.144 before dropping again to 1.11-ish  -  before the Brexit vote the exchange rate was about 1.31 to the Euro, to keep things in perspective) .

 

The USD is just as soft as since the last time its last slide began, also about 10 days ago; now at 1.1740.

 

These are totally normal fluctuations within the expected parameters.

 

If you're not following the markets on a regular basis in this case and not checking the facts, you just end up not looking so smart.

No need to jump in your high horse or get so upset dear fellow.... was plainly making a correlation with the rate of the € to CHF this morning and as the CHF was dropping a bit towards the €, I humbly made a correlation with the German crisis....now as for looking smart, I think that it never is very smart to try to appear so, thus I will pass my turn if you don't mind.

[Stargeezr]

I think that Germany is like all countries, and needs to change its leadership regularly.   New blood in politics can be a good thing.

Geezer

[bert bloggs]

6 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I think that Germany is like all countries, and needs to change its leadership regularly.   New blood in politics can be a good thing.

Geezer

As long as Britain never gets the comedy duo Abbot and Corbyn .

[FreddieRoyle]

20 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Merkel might go home, but her imports wont ! Absolutely ruined Germany this woman singlehandedly.   

Yes well said. This sorry saga has come about through Merkel having no children. Normally when a person has kids the most important thing in their world is the wellbeing of their children. In Merkels case the most important thing in Merkels world is her being admired by her peers. In this crazy age of out of control liberalism, this resulted in her inviting the 3rd world to come and live on German welfare to show to world leaders and the liberal elite how virtuous and amazing Merkel is.  Of course, in a couple of generations there will be no Germany it will have been renamed to something more suitable by the new rulers.

 

 MrDome, your figures are only showing those that claimed asylum in Germany, there will be 00s of 000s more arrived illegally that for whatever reason did not yet claim asylum. My figure of 2mill is more realistic for the amount of arrived 3rd worlders to Germany in the last 2 years. I hear that family reunification has already started. And you say to take into account those that have been sent back to their home!!! We are talking about less than 1,000 people, and most of those that were sent home with up to 10,000Euros in their pocket came straight back to Germany(after a nice holiday at home where they were perfectly safe! on German taxpayers dime).

 

 The only silver lining here is that Merkel will have finally realized what she has done, and yes at the moment she has excellent control of German media but that will not last forever. The trend will be a huge swing to the right, and one thing that Germans do well is swing to the right. Looking forward to the show.

[anon537687643]

She’s banking on getting more votes in another Federal Election,let’s hope the German people give her 2 fingers


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[BuaBS]

21 hours ago, markaoffy said:

She’s banking on getting more votes in another Federal Election,let’s hope the German people give her 2 fingers


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Hopefully the middle finger !

[mrdome]

On 11/21/2017 at 9:24 AM, markaoffy said:

She’s banking on getting more votes in another Federal Election,let’s hope the German people give her 2 fingers

Keep dreaming, no other party will get more votes than her CDU and the SPD is down to 20% these days. As much as I'd like to see someone else in charge, it just isn't realistic at this point.

[mrdome]

On 11/21/2017 at 9:15 AM, FreddieRoyle said:

MrDome, your figures are only showing those that claimed asylum in Germany, there will be 00s of 000s more arrived illegally that for whatever reason did not yet claim asylum. My figure of 2mill is more realistic for the amount of arrived 3rd worlders to Germany in the last 2 years. I hear that family reunification has already started.

Yes, of course only official figures as you have to be a recognized refugee for the family reunification program.

 

Your claim of 600+K waiting in the wings to apply for asylum is another fabrication of yours not based on any verifiable numbers and more a reflection on your state of mind, i.e. "the hordes are just outside the city gates'). What do you think Germany should do? Abolish the right to asylum?

 

Freddie, family reunification has existed and been practiced for decades already. If you are going to put something in writing, do some research first.