What is your value quotient here in Thailand?

[tryasimight]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Do you have any idea of what the income tax share is in the nation's total tax revenue?

Not much, that I can tell you.

Even in rich countries, in Europe for example, where workers are well paid, indirect taxes such as VAT represent the bulk of the nations' revenue (40% in France, for example).

In Thailand, people employed with a fixed income (salary...) and paying income tax, social security and so on, are a small minority.

Why do you think they have 2% unemployment?

Because to be officially unemployed, one has to have been employed in the first place.

Millions of adults are still farmers, street vendors, construction workers...all getting an undeclared income.

The big taxes in Thailand are not so much the VAT, which is not paid on many transactions, but for example taxes on cars and gasoline.

When a Westerner buys a new car, he pays much more taxes to the state than the average Thai pays in income tax...

 

The arrogance is breathtaking ' when a westerner buys a new car...... '. I would humbly suggest that the number of thais buying a new car far outweighs the number of western economic refugees by several orders of magnitude.  

'VAT is not paid on many transactions ' really?? I must live in a different part of Thailand ( or reality)  to you as I seem to pay VAT on pretty well everything I buy. 

[Naam]

49 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

as a good student always eager to learn

then do your homework and stop being a bad loser yakking and differentiating between personal and corporate income tax. the discussion was whether a foreigner, although income tax free on his offshore proceeds, pays taxes besides VAT.

Quote

duanebigsby said:

You aren't paying your share of income tax indirectly  by the very definition of the words  "income" tax. Buying an air conditioner etc with money that you have payed income tax on by your home country doesn't constitute any "income" tax paid to Thailand. You pay VAT and only VAT. Quit deluding yourself that you are a huge contributor to the Thai economy.

the answer is a clear YES. period!

 

case closed, witnesses are excused, plaintiff pays all court cost.

Bailiff... next case!

[MartinL]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

 

... I would appreciate if you could provide some figures showing how much is collected via this corporate income tax, and what share of the Thai national tax revenue this represents.

 

For Thailand's Fiscal Year 2557 (2014), proportions of total tax take were as follows:-

 

Personal Income Tax; 16.24%

Corporate IT; 32.96%

Petroleum IT; 5.91%

VAT; 41.13%

Business Tax; 3.07%

Stamp Duty; 0.68%

Others; 0.02%

 

Similar proportions apply for previous & subsequent tax years, too.

 

Source; p. 94 of the 2557 (2014) report  from:- 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/24602.0.html

 

I'm no financial wizard, nor am I particularly interested in the technicalities of finance - so perhaps some here could easily find fault with what I've quoted - but I've found these figures interesting and useful in a number of conversations.

Edited November 25, 2017 by MartinL

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

The arrogance is breathtaking ' when a westerner buys a new car...... '. I would humbly suggest that the number of thais buying a new car far outweighs the number of western economic refugees by several orders of magnitude.  

'VAT is not paid on many transactions ' really?? I must live in a different part of Thailand ( or reality)  to you as I seem to pay VAT on pretty well everything I buy. 

Buying goods at the local market, buying food to street vendors, eating at small restaurants, getting a massage, getting your car fixed or washed at a local garage...VAT free...at least it is just 100 km from Sangka...maybe you should consider moving a bit East...

 

Submitting that a foreigner buying a car pays taxes is not arrogant...he pays his share, like everyone else.

 

The idea is not to say that foreigners contribute more than the local population (how could they?) but just to say that they don't enjoy special benefits and pay taxes like everyone else.

 

I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding foreigners and local taxes?

 

They pay what they have to pay, no more, no less, and they don't write the tax code...

 

 

 

[Brunolem]

29 minutes ago, MartinL said:

For Thailand's Fiscal Year 2557 (2014), proportions of total tax take were as follows:-

 

Personal Income Tax; 16.24%

Corporate IT; 32.96%

Petroleum IT; 5.91%

VAT; 41.13%

Business Tax; 3.07%

Stamp Duty; 0.68%

Others; 0.02%

 

Similar proportions apply for previous & subsequent tax years, too.

 

Source; p. 94 of the 2557 (2014) report  from:- 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/24602.0.html

 

I'm no financial wizard, nor am I particularly interested in the technicalities of finance - so perhaps some here could easily find fault with what I've quoted - but I've found these figures interesting and useful in a number of conversations.

Interesting numbers that our tax expert, Naam, was unfortunately not able to provide.

 

They show, as I wrote in a post above, that, like in many countries, indirect taxes, such as VAT, are the biggest contributor to the country's treasury.

 

And personal income tax represents a modest fraction, which is not surprising since only employed people making more than 150,000 baht per year pay this tax.

[Naam]

18 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Interesting numbers that our tax expert, Naam, was unfortunately not able to provide.

Quote

Now, master, as a good student always eager to learn, I would appreciate if you could provide some figures

since when do teachers do their students' homework? so you want to be a sore loser and ridicule yourself. suits me!

next!

[bazza73]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

but you have to admit that Australia has its advantages. no communication problem as most of the people speak Austra-y-lian and you have the right to pay income tax.

Try contacting a call centre in Australia, and you may change your mind. Outsourced to Indians and Pakistanis.

The correct term for our variant of English is Strine. How's your egg nishners going?

[Naam]

30 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

And personal income tax represents a modest fraction, which is not surprising since only employed people making more than 150,000 baht per year pay this tax.

goodness gracious! you still don't understand that every consumer pays with every Baht he/she spends also a part of the income tax and any other taxes of companies and shops because these taxes are embedded in their price calculation? 

[Naam]

7 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

How's your egg nishners going?

i travelled to Australia a few times. beautiful country, nice people although they also drive on the wrong side. never saw any egg nishners. did i miss something?              

[JaiLai]

I've worked off and on in Vietnam for the best part of 8 years.
 
And you think the Thai's don't like us?

I worked in VN for 3 years, locals were much more skilled and dedicated than Thais, got on with them fine.

You must just be a tit *_^


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bazza73]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

i travelled to Australia a few times. beautiful country, nice people although they also drive on the wrong side. never saw any egg nishners. did i miss something?              

Of course you did. In every motel and car. Egg nishner = air conditioner

[Brunolem]

25 minutes ago, Naam said:

since when do teachers do their students' homework? so you want to be a sore loser and ridicule yourself. suits me!

next!

So now you are my teacher...good to know...I hope you have some solid credentials...

[Brunolem]

13 minutes ago, Naam said:

goodness gracious! you still don't understand that every consumer pays with every Baht he/she spends also a part of the income tax and any other taxes of companies and shops because these taxes are embedded in their price calculation? 

That is not necessarily true, since many Thai people do not pay income tax.

 

Here in my remote corner of Isaan, almost all the transactions are made in cash, including big ones, and nobody I know pays an income tax.

 

The income tax is deducted from the salaries of those who...have salaries...that is a very small fraction of the population (bank tellers, public employees...).

 

I would guess that a huge fraction of the national income tax is collected in Bangkok and around, leaving 

Iittle for the provinces...

 

[fanjita]

Amazing how a rabid rant by a disgruntled falang started as a racism thread over a few thousand baht has now descended to how much we contribute to the Thai economy.  And you all fell for it.  LOL. 

 

I can just picture Tony Clifton sitting at home, wherever that is, doubled up in hysterical fits of laughter.  

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by fanjita

[mogandave]

That is not necessarily true, since many Thai people do not pay income tax.
 
Here in my remote corner of Isaan, almost all the transactions are made in cash, including big ones, and nobody I know pays an income tax.
 
The income tax is deducted from the salaries of those who...have salaries...that is a very small fraction of the population (bank tellers, public employees...).
 
I would guess that a huge fraction of the national income tax is collected in Bangkok and around, leaving 
Iittle for the provinces...
 

The income tax is national, so regardless of where they collect it, it should trickle out to the provinces.

Most every multinational is paying significant income tax, at least after the first few years.

[mommysboy]

What doesn't work is having a western-centric mindset particularly one based on consumer logic.  The fact is most of us are on temporary visas and have no rights.  We are subject to the law of the land however, which does afford some protection.  On the other hand, being farangs, many Thais assume us to be rich, which does bestow some kudos, so long as we spend lavishly.

[duanebigsby]

5 hours ago, Naam said:

and you did not grasp what i wrote mate! especially for you i will now slowly type and repeat that with every Baht i spend in Thailand i pay a pro rata share of income tax of the Thai producer, the Thai distributor, the Thai shop and the Thai salesman who sell any product to me (or my wife). cost and all Thai taxes of the afore-mentioned Thai parties are included in the price i pay.

 

as far as delusion is concerned... i mentioned nowhere that i consider myself a big contributor to the Thai economy even though i spend since more than a dozen years annually the equivalent income of ~400 Thai low level employees. 

 

 

That's not income tax!

You are buying a product and the company you purchase it from pays income tax on the money you spent

You aren't paying a pro rata share. You claim you spend 400 times what any Thai does...that's 3.6 million baht per month. I don't believe that for a minute.

[mommysboy]

Those who claim elderly expats contribute a lot to the economy have a point imo when we look at it on a head to head basis.  I don't know what the average monthly spend would be, but let's say around 50,000 baht.  This is not only a relatively high amount of money, but it goes directly in to the economy as fresh cash.  The expat can not draw benefits either.

[fanjita]

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Those who claim elderly expats contribute a lot to the economy have a point imo when we look at it on a head to head basis.  I don't know what the average monthly spend would be, but let's say around 50,000 baht.  This is not only a relatively high amount of money, but it goes directly in to the economy as fresh cash.  The expat can not draw benefits either.

Fantastic and you've got first class investigative skills.  Now the question.  Should Thais prostrate themselves before you each and every day?  That's what the OP wants you to agree to.

 

The OP has got you lot wrapped around his little finger.

Edited November 25, 2017 by fanjita

[duanebigsby]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Those who claim elderly expats contribute a lot to the economy have a point imo when we look at it on a head to head basis.  I don't know what the average monthly spend would be, but let's say around 50,000 baht.  This is not only a relatively high amount of money, but it goes directly in to the economy as fresh cash.  The expat can not draw benefits either.

Many Thais put 50k baht monthly  into the economy as well. And the expats are far less than 1% of the population.

Are you suggesting  a minuscule  group of the population is going to affect the economy? We're an insignificant drop in the bucket.

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Fantastic and you've got first class investigative skills.  Now the question.  Should Thais prostrate themselves before you each and every day?  That's what the OP wants you to agree to.

 

The OP has got you lot wrapped around his little finger.

Do I need first class investigative skills to make such a basic and general observation?  It's a comment on a thread not a post-grad thesis.

 

I didn't indicate I was answering a specific question, as it is a stand alone comment.

 

But to answer, no of course not.  I do think the deal we get regarding visas is a crummy one- I mean that is not a good way of dealing with people who come here on a long term basis, and who contribute quite a bit per head. 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Many Thais put 50k baht monthly  into the economy as well. And the expats are far less than 1% of the population.

Are you suggesting  a minuscule  group of the population is going to affect the economy? We're an insignificant drop in the bucket.

 

No, I'm not making any other point than the one I made.  Many Thais might, but I doubt that it is very many, and as I said expats can not draw from the economy.  The money they put in is often pure disposable income, ie, they draw 50,000 from farangland and spend right at ground level.

 

I rather think such a customer spending like that in my business would be most welcome.

 

I did qualify the comment I made by saying on a 'head to head' basis.  Of course, therir contribution is vastly outweighed when compared with millions of people.

 

Take it or leave it!

[fanjita]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Do I need first class investigative skills to make such a basic and general observation?  It's a comment on a thread not a post-grad thesis.

 

I didn't indicate I was answering a specific question, as it is a stand alone comment.

 

But to answer, no of course not.  I do think the deal we get regarding visas is a crummy one- I mean that is not a good way of dealing with people who come here on a long term basis, and who contribute quite a bit per head. 

Don't take it personally.  The question was to the wider audience.  

 

The OP is looking for widespread consensus that Thais prostrate themselves before the falang.  

 

Looking at this thread, he's well on his way to achieving his goal.

 

The OP is clever but not that clever and more than a little narcissistic.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by fanjita

[Brunolem]

27 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

You claim you spend 400 times what any Thai does...that's 3.6 million baht per month. I don't believe that for a minute.

I arrived at the same result, based on the local minimum wage.

It seems that Naam, being a tax expert and all, has done well for himself.

With him spending over 100,000 baht every day, for years,  I can imagine that his neighborhood is flushed.

Maybe they have erected a statue in his honor...

[SiSePuede419]

"Was it because it was cheaper to live here than somewhere else? "

 

Thailand is the cheapest country that I WANT to live in. ?

 

Couldn't find a single country that's cheaper that has better food, for example.

 

I live to eat, not eat to live. 

 

The food in Columbia, for example sucks and hotels are more expensive, dirtier and much more dangerous.  Don't understand how it's cheaper unless you live in a hut in some undesirable rural location.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/mapped-the-cheapest-and-most-expensive-countries-to-live-in/

 

[Brunolem]

Why this debate and all this arguing?

Why do so many members engage in some sort of self-bashing: "our contribution is minimal...blah blah blah"?

Where in the world do immigrants contribute significantly to the local tax system?

Except for some very special cases, immigrants are always a minority of the population, and contribute accordingly, and often less.

While the German who retires in Thailand spends his pension here, builds a house with his savings, and maybe takes care of a local family, the Thai who works in Germany saves as much as possible in order to send his money back home!

And many immigrant workers, from all nations including the rich ones, behave in the same way.

Immigrants move to another country because they see some kind of advantage in doing so, and generally their motivations are not to contribute to the economy of the host country, but rather to take advantage of it.

For most foreigners in Thailand, this advantage is a lower cost of life.

So, what's wrong with that?

Japanese companies build factories in Thailand, not for the greater good of the country, but because they think it's good for them!

Western foreigners living in Thailand are not a special case and are not guilty of anything...at least as long as they follow the local rules...

[mommysboy]

I do remember when I first came to Thailand I detected a hint of chagrin in the young assistant's face at having to hand back change in a simple transaction.  Later, having considered what happened, I rather think she assumed it to be her tip!  We are fair game in their eyes, one way or another.

 

I also recall a friend who was livid following what he saw as a most unsatisfactory deal in one of the big malls.  This was in a reputable chain store.  To cut a long story short, he bought an item at a discounted price (or so he thought).  Upon being handed back his change minus the advertised discount he kicked up a fuss.  The assistant argued the discount had already been factored in to the price- it clearly didn't read that way.  She would not give way, but I think he got therein the end.  The point is- and this is where I totally agree with OP- this is no way to treat a paying customer.

 

Perhaps OP could clarify if he does require bowing and scraping- I doubt it.

[jenny2017]

I recognize my value.  Do you? NO !

[fanjita]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Perhaps OP could clarify if he does require bowing and scraping- I doubt it.

Don't be so quick.  The OP has loaded the gun and he wants you all to go out, starting tomorrow, and fire it.  

 

Apparently, and that's a big apparently, he has confronted the school over the perceived slight of overcharging his son for the school minibus and wants you all to carry on his good work.  He most certainly wants you, the falang, to make Thais understand their place in the new world order and prostrate themselves at your very sight.  

 

I'm surprised you lot don't get this.

[mommysboy]

32 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

I recognize my value.  Do you? NO !

What do you mean?  Who are you talking to?