What is your value quotient here in Thailand?

[fanjita]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

What do you mean?  Who are you talking to?

Probably aimed at the OP.

[Naam]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

3 hours ago, Naam said:

goodness gracious! you still don't understand that every consumer pays with every Baht he/she spends also a part of the income tax and any other taxes of companies and shops because these taxes are embedded in their price calculation? 

That is not necessarily true, since many Thai people do not pay income tax.

 

Here in my remote corner of Isaan, almost all the transactions are made in cash, including big ones, and nobody I know pays an income tax.

you are one unique lucky man living in an area where you don't pay income tax on a refinery's profit that cracked crude oil into gasoline which an attendant filled in the tank of your Bentley (or Honda Click?) because you pay with cash.

 

may the force be with you and may nobody ever nominate you for the Darwin award.

 

honi soit qui mal y pense!  

[jenny2017]

46 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Probably aimed at the OP.

Boy doesn't understand him wife.

[tryasimight]

4 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Buying goods at the local market, buying food to street vendors, eating at small restaurants, getting a massage, getting your car fixed or washed at a local garage...VAT free...at least it is just 100 km from Sangka...maybe you should consider moving a bit East...

 

Submitting that a foreigner buying a car pays taxes is not arrogant...he pays his share, like everyone else.

 

The idea is not to say that foreigners contribute more than the local population (how could they?) but just to say that they don't enjoy special benefits and pay taxes like everyone else.

 

I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding foreigners and local taxes?

 

They pay what they have to pay, no more, no less, and they don't write the tax code...

 

 

 

You have missed my point entirely. Expats have same deal as Thais in my experience,  no more and no less.  The inference that somehow an expat buying a car and paying tax is some form of benevolent largesse is nonsense. 

If I moved 30k east,  let alone 100k I would be in Cambodia...... No thank you. 

I think a lot of people supporting the concept that spending their pension pittance somehow requires thanks from the Thai economy have an over inflated sense of themselves.  They should be more concerned about the politics in their own country as more and more people ask the question 'why are we sending these funds overseas when they could be spent in the home country? ' Many people resent what they see as a taxpayer funded extended overseas holiday. 

It's happening in Australia now and it will become more common as time goes by. 

It doesn't matter that it can be claimed 'I earned the right to the pension' the simple fact is that the money is coming out of the current account and the draw on that money is increasing as life expectancy increases. There is no bottomless pit of funds. 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

You claim you spend 400 times what any Thai does...that's 3.6 million baht per month.

what part of "annually" is it you don't understand? 

 

Quote

i mentioned nowhere that i consider myself a big contributor to the Thai economy even though i spend since more than a dozen years annually the equivalent income of ~400 Thai low level employees. 

i admit for clarification the Thai salaries should have had the attribute "monthly" and apologise for the confusion.

[djayz]

A person's greatest emotional need is to feel appreciated - H. Jackson Brown. 

Some people, apparently, have a much greater emotional need than others to feel appreciated.

I don't expect any more, or less, here just because I'm a foreigner/expat/white man.  

Life's not perfect, make the most of it and try to enjoy every day as if it were your last. 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by djayz

[steven100]

11 hours ago, khunPer said:

Perhaps you'll be more happy there...

There's plenty of TV whingers who fit into that catagory ....  

[InMyShadow]

Is this a troll? Are you a troll? Do I really have to explain the concept of value to you?
 
Even the poorest expat puts money in the hooker's bank account who in turn buys things.  He pays rent or hotel and buys food from the street or stores.  This is not about who is spending the most money. 
 
Maybe you don't get it.  Pity.  

I don't know where you live but it most certainly isn't among expats and I doubt it's even thailand.

"The poorest" expats don't do hookers in fact most expats drift away from that scene

I suggest you spend some time in expat areas next time you holiday

[mogandave]

I don't know where you live but it most certainly isn't among expats and I doubt it's even thailand.

"The poorest" expats don't do hookers in fact most expats drift away from that scene

I suggest you spend some time in expat areas next time you holiday

I would think the poorest expats would be Burmese, and I agree, it is not likely they are spending a lot on prostitutes.

I think a lot of people that participate in a particular behavior think everyone does the same thing. It often has a lot to do with the people the associate with.

I remember back when I was smoking grass, I thought everyone did.

[taipeir]

I think many of us overvalue our financial impact on Thailand. The estimates I've seen of how many expats are living here is between 250k-500k people. Most are pensioners having modest income. Many are wealthy and drop big coin here. But we're a drop in the bucket compared to 75 million Thais, many paying taxes, and 25 million tourists spending a lot of money in their 3 week holiday.

Not only that.

There are vast property investments going into Thailand now from Chinese and other Asians. Look around you and see who funded that.



Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[Brunolem]

10 hours ago, Naam said:

you are one unique lucky man living in an area where you don't pay income tax on a refinery's profit that cracked crude oil into gasoline which an attendant filled in the tank of your Bentley (or Honda Click?) because you pay with cash.

 

may the force be with you and may nobody ever nominate you for the Darwin award.

 

honi soit qui mal y pense!  

Sensei...no refinery in Isaan...and no Bentley because not everybody can afford to spend 3,600,000 baht per month like you..

 

And on top of that you also master French!

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Sensei...no refinery in Isaan...

you drive your Honda Click with cooking oil?

[Brunolem]

10 hours ago, tryasimight said:

 

If I moved 30k east,  let alone 100k I would be in Cambodia...... No thank you. 

 

That would rather be South...

 

Moving East, on road 24, from Sangka, you will soon cross into Sisaket province, and after 100km, arrive in the vicinity of Kantharalak...and then you can keep on driving East to Ubon province...

[Srikcir]

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

And on top of that you also master French!

Or mastered Wikipedia (such is our world today):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honi_soit_qui_mal_y_pense

 

[Naam]

6 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

not everybody can afford to spend 3,600,000 baht per month like you..

another Isaan dweller who doesn't know the meaning of "annually"

[Brunolem]

1 minute ago, Naam said:

you drive your Honda Click with cooking oil?

Let me explain...if I may...sensei...

 

One don't need to live close to a refinery in order to get gasoline!

Gasoline is transported by tank trucks, over hundreds of kilometers, in order to supply gas stations.

 

By the way, does your Bentley come equipped with a mini fridge and a flat screen TV?

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Srikcir said:

Or mastered Wikipedia (such is our world today):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honi_soit_qui_mal_y_pense

 

French is my mother tongue, German my "father" tongue.

[Naam]

Just now, Brunolem said:

One don't need to live close to a refinery in order to get gasoline!

Gasoline is transported by tank trucks, over hundreds of kilometers, in order to supply gas stations.

is that the reason why you don't pay with your cash Baht any profits of the refinery, the truck company or the service station? Isaan must be paradise.

 

shall we count now how many times you shot your own foot? is it the left, right or both feet? 

[Brunolem]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

another Isaan dweller who doesn't know the meaning of "annually"

But...sensei...annually 400 Thais spend much more than 3,600,000 baht!

 

And by the way, congratulations for spending 300,000 baht per month in your host country...one can't accuse you of not contributing very significantly to the local economy...

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

 

shall we count now how many times you shot your own foot? is it the left, right or both feet? 

I don't know if I shoot my foot (don't feel anything) but I almost pissed my pants reading your prose.

That the nice thing with internet...strange encounters of all kinds...

[geriatrickid]

On 11/23/2017 at 7:47 AM, TonyClifton said:

VAT is a tax.  Why would you discount its importance?

Many visitors come to my country, overstay and they collect welfare.

Your point?

Because the VAT derived from people like you doesn't contribute very much compared to the  resources you take from the economy. There is a big difference between the  relatively high paying  short time visitors and the long term visitors who are in Thailand. Those short timers spend much more per diem than do foreign residents.

 

On 11/23/2017 at 10:28 AM, TonyClifton said:

No, it's mostly a "give" relationship.

These people as you call them are also contributing.  Your post smacks of elitist sentimentalities.  Just because they don't contribute as much as you, doesn't mean that they are taking.  They are also giving but less than you.   

Sorry but they are taking, and taking significantly. The foreigners who reside in Thailand  use a lot of the services. They drive on the roads, they use the airports  and railways. The difference between the short term visitors and  foreign residents who are on limited budgets and are dependent upon fixed old age or other types pensions is pronounced. The long term foreign residents have an environmental impact with their use of water, energy and land resources. They create waste and garbage that must be processed. 

 

The number of  high value foreign residents is not significant, for the simple reason that companies cut  back on their foreign managers. My previous employer  went from 20+ in one unit 15 years ago to one today. Wealthy foreigners do not retire to Thailand for the simple reason that the services are not good. They will visit for a short time but not stay. Portugal, Spain, the South of France are all much more desirable for the law abiding super wealthy. There are no shake downs, no need to worry about parasites in the  water etc. Thailand cannot compare to Sardinia. Sure, some will come to Thailand, but they don't stay long. Why would they when Singapore offers a safer, cleaner  alternative?

 

Thailand attracts the lower end 2nd tier and 3rd tier retiree expats, the ones with limited incomes. That is why their economic value is not  as significant as you believe it is.

 

On 11/23/2017 at 1:09 PM, TonyClifton said:

You are correct.  You're the first serious responder to this thread.  We pump pure money into this economy.  They should be thanking us at Immigration when we come and go.  

You are not "pumping" pure money into the economy. And your contribution is a pittance compared to the  small high value niche. You are unimportant because unlike the Japanese & Chinese gangsters you don't plunk down 10 million baht for a poorly built condo in Phuket or Pattaya and visit once in a while. You are not as valuable as the Russian  thug who needs to put his money somewhere because he is blocked from laundering assets in the west and both Greece and Cyprus had a meltdown. You don't compare to the elderly Scandinavian retirees because they spend alot per capita , use minimal services and stay for short periods.

 

I am sorry to say but the foreign expat community in Thailand is not  as wealthy as you believe it to be. It just isn't.

 

 

[tingtongtourist]

You can argue if on a whole, Thailand NEED the farang?

But look at the family that farang guy will marry into or even Thai girlfriend of farang:

 

Supporting whole family ans parents

Buying house, car, bikes

Buying land they cant own and sooner or later will probably loose

Setting up a business for a GF

Paying rent, power, water etc 

Living expenses.

 

And even sometimes Paying for a scooling and upkeep of a Thai mans children 

 

 

 

I can say i did once do some of the things above but never again. Never did know of any Thai showing any thanks either, just expecting more!

 

Also i remember a certain prem, giving lecture on a friday night TV, how Thais dont need luxuries and shouldnt to borrow money for stuff they dont need.

 

But in the end prem did say this..if you want this life of luxury then go to marry a farang.

 

So yes, If you ask the Thai partners of farang, then YES they absolutely need the farang to keep them in the comfortable life they could of never have if up to them. 

But dont expect any thanks!

[duanebigsby]

12 hours ago, Naam said:

what part of "annually" is it you don't understand? 

 

i admit for clarification the Thai salaries should have had the attribute "monthly" and apologise for the confusion.

Yes, I was confused by your poor wording but I know what annually means.

I took your statement to mean you spend more than 400 Thais. Minimum wage of 9k baht per month times 400 people = 3.6 million baht.

[duanebigsby]

14 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Why this debate and all this arguing?

Why do so many members engage in some sort of self-bashing: "our contribution is minimal...blah blah blah"?

Where in the world do immigrants contribute significantly to the local tax system?

Except for some very special cases, immigrants are always a minority of the population, and contribute accordingly, and often less.

While the German who retires in Thailand spends his pension here, builds a house with his savings, and maybe takes care of a local family, the Thai who works in Germany saves as much as possible in order to send his money back home!

And many immigrant workers, from all nations including the rich ones, behave in the same way.

Immigrants move to another country because they see some kind of advantage in doing so, and generally their motivations are not to contribute to the economy of the host country, but rather to take advantage of it.

For most foreigners in Thailand, this advantage is a lower cost of life.

So, what's wrong with that?

Japanese companies build factories in Thailand, not for the greater good of the country, but because they think it's good for them!

Western foreigners living in Thailand are not a special case and are not guilty of anything...at least as long as they follow the local rules...

Well, that would be me of course. I suggested that we over estimate our economic input not to talk about money, but to counter those who feel that the Thais need to bow down and grovel in front of the rich farang, which was the tone of the OP and many others I've seen on TV.

 I agree with everything in your post.

 

[tryasimight]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

That would rather be South...

 

Moving East, on road 24, from Sangka, you will soon cross into Sisaket province, and after 100km, arrive in the vicinity of Kantharalak...and then you can keep on driving East to Ubon province...

Well there you go..... 

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Because the VAT derived from people like you doesn't contribute very much compared to the  resources you take from the economy. There is a big difference between the  relatively high paying  short time visitors and the long term visitors who are in Thailand. Those short timers spend much more per diem than do foreign residents.

 

Sorry but they are taking, and taking significantly. The foreigners who reside in Thailand  use a lot of the services. They drive on the roads, they use the airports  and railways. The difference between the short term visitors and  foreign residents who are on limited budgets and are dependent upon fixed old age or other types pensions is pronounced. The long term foreign residents have an environmental impact with their use of water, energy and land resources. They create waste and garbage that must be processed. 

 

The number of  high value foreign residents is not significant, for the simple reason that companies cut  back on their foreign managers. My previous employer  went from 20+ in one unit 15 years ago to one today. Wealthy foreigners do not retire to Thailand for the simple reason that the services are not good. They will visit for a short time but not stay. Portugal, Spain, the South of France are all much more desirable for the law abiding super wealthy. There are no shake downs, no need to worry about parasites in the  water etc. Thailand cannot compare to Sardinia. Sure, some will come to Thailand, but they don't stay long. Why would they when Singapore offers a safer, cleaner  alternative?

 

Thailand attracts the lower end 2nd tier and 3rd tier retiree expats, the ones with limited incomes. That is why their economic value is not  as significant as you believe it is.

 

You are not "pumping" pure money into the economy. And your contribution is a pittance compared to the  small high value niche. You are unimportant because unlike the Japanese & Chinese gangsters you don't plunk down 10 million baht for a poorly built condo in Phuket or Pattaya and visit once in a while. You are not as valuable as the Russian  thug who needs to put his money somewhere because he is blocked from laundering assets in the west and both Greece and Cyprus had a meltdown. You don't compare to the elderly Scandinavian retirees because they spend alot per capita , use minimal services and stay for short periods.

 

I am sorry to say but the foreign expat community in Thailand is not  as wealthy as you believe it to be. It just isn't.

 

 

Heck. One has to put up with a lot with your partisan postings, but I think you have surpassed yourself on this occasion.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

Well, that would be me of course. I suggested that we over estimate our economic input not to talk about money, but to counter those who feel that the Thais need to bow down and grovel in front of the rich farang, which was the tone of the OP and many others I've seen on TV.

 I agree with everything in your post.

 

Some people seem to have problems with the locals that I have never encountered.

Thais are generally friendly and polite when involved in any kind of transaction.

They don't bow, but why would they?

Now, in places like Pattaya, which are overrun with farangs, and not necessarily the cream of the crop, things might get heated from time to time.

Yet, all in all, it seems to me that the Thai people remain very composed, considering the number and, in many cases less than friendly attitude, of the farangs they have to deal with.

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

There is a big difference between the  relatively high paying  short time visitors and the long term visitors who are in Thailand. 

 

Thailand attracts the lower end 2nd tier and 3rd tier retiree expats, the ones with limited incomes. 

 

 

That is, of course, if you count without Naam and his Bentley, and his 10,000 to 100,000 baht daily expenses, depending on his mood...and his calculations...

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

That is, of course, if you count without Naam and his Bentley, and his 10,000 to 100,000 baht daily expenses, depending on his mood...and his calculations...

Naam owns a Bentley? Must be a masochist.

[Brunolem]

41 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Naam owns a Bentley? Must be a masochist.

Probably a status symbol...the master has to mark his territory...