What is your value quotient here in Thailand?

[TonyClifton]

3 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Easy there Tony,don't get overwrought,and what's all this about hookers,we don't all use their services,and not all of us have a girlfriend/wife who has been one,i think you could find a better analogy than this.

I knew a lady from Pattaya named Jinda.  Jinda was a hooker.  She met John from Great Britain and eventually married him.  He never deserved such a fine woman.  I would trust her with the combination to my safe and house keys.  I have never met a finer human being here.  Not only was she lovely, but she was honest and a sincerely nice woman.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[JLCrab]

There is the American expression: The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

In Thailand, I prefer to keep my wheels well greased so that they do not squeak and as few people as possible actually know that I am here. Should things not go my way, the last thing I would like to do is to see how much trouble I could cause someone.

[duanebigsby]

On 11/24/2017 at 5:26 AM, TonyClifton said:

Don't waste time here, go find a scammer to enable and defend.

Sent from my USA make America Great Again Motorola mobile phone.
 

Motorola was bought by Lenovo in 2014 and the US plants were shut down, were they not?

[duanebigsby]

I think many of us overvalue our financial impact on Thailand. The estimates I've seen of how many expats are living here is between 250k-500k people. Most are pensioners having modest income. Many are wealthy and drop big coin here. But we're a drop in the bucket compared to 75 million Thais, many paying taxes, and 25 million tourists spending a lot of money in their 3 week holiday.

[Srikcir]

On 11/24/2017 at 12:42 AM, KittenKong said:

it is vastly superior to tax revenue in every way.

Paying income taxes has no worth with regard to measuring value.

If it did, more than 13 million low-income Thai earners now registered under the welfare scheme for the low-income earners (paying no income taxes) would be viewed as worthless. 

Same  might apply to Thai companies that pay no income tax.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

I knew a lady from Pattaya named Jinda.  Jinda was a hooker.  She met John from Great Britain and eventually married him.  He never deserved such a fine woman.  I would trust her with the combination to my safe and house keys.  I have never met a finer human being here.  Not only was she lovely, but she was honest and a sincerely nice woman.

I knew a lady from Pattaya named Jinda.

 

That would make a great first line for a limerick .

[tryasimight]

On 23/11/2017 at 9:58 PM, TonyClifton said:

 

No, it's mostly a "give" relationship.

 

These people as you call them are also contributing.  Your post smacks of elitist sentimentalities.  Just because they don't contribute as much as you, doesn't mean that they are taking.  They are also giving but less than you.   

 

What is this nonsense about contributing to the Thai economy?  Get real,  you are spending money to feed, clothe and for shelter as you would anywhere else and nothing more.  It is hardly the height of philanthropy as you seem to allude to.

Take your economy supporting funds to Vietnam by all means but I doubt the Thai economy will collapse as a result. 

[thaiguzzi]

"Do I think the Thais should be thanking me daily for helping to prop up their economy"?

Now that is the most stupid thing I've read on here in a looooooong time.

Maybe you need to get out a bit more, you know, the places where you don't see "the white man".

Not;

Hua Hin

Phuket

Pattaya

Chiang Mai

et al

 

[Brunolem]

On 11/24/2017 at 8:12 AM, KittenKong said:

I know several people who have spent more here supporting hookers girlfriends than I spent buying my condo and car

So do I...

[bazza73]

Most of us are here because it's cheaper to live here than in our country of origin. In terms of Australia, half the cost or less, depending on how well one wants to live.

I don't consider the Thais should be bowing and scraping to us just because we retired here with more money than the average Thai. We are a minor part of their economy.

[Brunolem]

This is all very interesting...

If we are not tourists, but live here, then we are immigrants, plain and simple.

Having said that, I can't imagine such a debate (what is our value, our contribution...) between immigrants living in Western countries.

The very fact that we ask ourselves this kind of questions is somehow comforting.

In the West, one would be more likely to find a thread between immigrants exchanging tips on how to milk the host country until the last drop.

Altogether, it seems to me that Western immigrants in Thailand don't have anything to be ashamed of, with regard to their behavior and contribution to their host country.

Obviously, there are some black sheep, but so few that their cases can be exposed individualy in the news!

Compare that, for example, with the Russians...as soon as they set up foot in the country, they brought their mafia, their own hookers, some went on robbing banks and kill policemen.

And what about the Africans in Bangkok?

 

Our value, as far as we Westerners are concerned, is not only monetary...not everything is about money...but also in our education and the small steps forward that parts of the local society can make with our modest input. 

 

[Suradit69]

On 11/23/2017 at 7:33 PM, TonyClifton said:

 

Regardless of who you are, do you know your worth here in Thailand?

What was your worth wherever it was that you fled from? Something tells me there were a lot of happy people at your send off expressing their gratitude for your decision to move on.

[JLCrab]

2000 baht per month.

[Naam]

On 11/23/2017 at 7:45 PM, NanLaew said:

On 11/23/2017 at 7:33 PM, TonyClifton said:

Each and every one of you spend your money here. ... 

Yes we do.  But what percentage pay taxes here? And I don't mean VAT on purchases either.

you think the "tax free" retirees are paying only VAT? wrong! with every Baht i spend i am paying indirectly my share of income tax of others. buying an airconditioner, a car, a TV or property, a dozen eggs, a burger, a kilo of rice or vegetables  i pay my pro rata share of income tax of the manufacturer/producer, the distributor or shop plus VAT. and on imported items i pay an additional import duty, excise duty, luxury duty, etc.

[buick]

OP - there is no perfect place in the world.  there is always something that will be frustrating, etc..  you just have to take the good with the bad.  managing a dispute with a thai can be difficult at times.  but i don't encounter it all that often.  managing disputes in my home country (USA) can also be frusrating but for different reasons.

 

i spend some of my time in buriram.  they sell stuff on the side of the road there.  every now and then, we stop to buy something.  most recent was a small inflatable 'pool'.  the thais in the car with me told me to lie down on the back seat so they didn't get overcharged for the pool (i was paying but if i got out the car, supposedly, the price would go up.  so i gave them the 200thb).  this has happened several times and i just have a laugh. 

 

 

 

[Suradit69]

2 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Our value, as far as we Westerners are concerned, is not only monetary...not everything is about money...but also in our education and the small steps forward that parts of the local society can make with our modest input.

Sounds very much like the myths promoted by the European colonialists as they exploited & plundered much of Africa and Asia, devastating the local economies and treating the indigenous populations as expendable slaves in their own countries. 

 

The myth was that the colonialists were bringing enlightenment, education, etc to the heathen masses. And then of course in this part of the world the Americans "saved" Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia from Communism by killing off sizable portions of their civilian populations.

 

Quote

the small steps forward that parts of the local society can make with our modest input.

I seriously doubt the input of westerners has, on balance, been positive. There's a reason why the mention of Thailand in the west seems to immediately cause many people to think of desperate western sex tourists in sleazy bars rather than haloed westerners sharing their over-inflated skills and wisdom.

[steven100]

20 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Most of us are here because it's cheaper to live here than in our country of origin. In terms of Australia, half the cost or less, depending on how well one wants to live.

I don't consider the Thais should be bowing and scraping to us just because we retired here with more money than the average Thai. We are a minor part of their economy.

absolutely correct bazza,  Australia is ridiculously expensive for what it has to offer ...

food prices are at the top,  a cup cake is $5 at the markets, electricity is highest it has been and many go without food just to pay the bill,  telstra takes your remaining credit of your pre paid if you don't use it ( which I think stinks )  fuel is expensive, accom is expensive, house prices are out of reach of the average worker. Banks charge what they like.

Thailand is heaven compared to many western countries imo,  we don't realise how good we have it.

[duanebigsby]

12 minutes ago, Naam said:

you think the "tax free" retirees are paying only VAT? wrong! with every Baht i spend i am paying indirectly my share of income tax of others. buying an airconditioner, a car, a TV or property, a dozen eggs, a burger, a kilo of rice or vegetables  i pay my pro rata share of income tax of the manufacturer/producer, the distributor or shop plus VAT. and on imported items i pay an additional import duty, excise duty, luxury duty, etc.

You aren't paying your share of income tax indirectly  by the very definition of the words  "income" tax. Buying an air conditioner etc with money that you have payed income tax on by your home country doesn't constitute any "income" tax paid to Thailand. You pay VAT and only VAT. Quit deluding yourself that you are a huge contributor to the Thai economy.

[Brunolem]

49 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Sounds very much like the myths promoted by the European colonialists as they exploited & plundered much of Africa and Asia, devastating the local economies and treating the indigenous populations as expendable slaves in their own countries. 

 

The myth was that the colonialists were bringing enlightenment, education, etc to the heathen masses. And then of course in this part of the world the Americans "saved" Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia from Communism by killing off sizable portions of their civilian populations.

 

I seriously doubt the input of westerners has, on balance, been positive. There's a reason why the mention of Thailand in the west seems to immediately cause many people to think of desperate western sex tourists in sleazy bars rather than haloed westerners sharing their over-inflated skills and wisdom.

This is quite a narrow view of Westerners...as if the Western population could be reduced as a bunch of "sex tourists" and aspiring colonialists!

 

What about all these teachers and entrepreneurs who either provide education or jobs to the local population?

 

What about the thousands of Westerners who live in remote corners of the country, far from the sex industry, raising children, building houses, buying cars and tractors...providing for an extended family with their retirement pensions?

 

I am not convinced that Isaan, for example, would be better off if all the Westerners living there were to move somewhere else.

 

When it comes to colonialism..."devastating the local economies"...seriously?

 

Certainly, Cambodia, for example, was better off with Pol Pot and after, than with its French colonialists!

And in the Middle East and Africa, colonialists were immediately replaced with dictators, but at least it was THEIR dictators...as for their economies...Zimbabwe anyone?

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, buick said:

but i don't encounter it all that often.  managing disputes in my home country (USA) can also be frusrating but for different reasons.

Agree. Part of the problem with threads like this is that people take individual problems they've had here, and of course we've all had some, and generalize them to all Thais versus all of us. And the other part of the problem is either forgetting or choosing to ignore problems and frustrations we had to contend with in our own countries.

 

There also seems to be an assumption that the "us" and "them" in "us versus them" can be generalized to all westerners against all Thais and that "we" have to always rally behind team farang and disparage everyone on team Thai. 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Suradit69

[Naam]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

You aren't paying your share of income tax indirectly  by the very definition of the words  "income" tax. Buying an air conditioner etc with money that you have payed income tax on by your home country doesn't constitute any "income" tax paid to Thailand. You pay VAT and only VAT. Quit deluding yourself that you are a huge contributor to the Thai economy.

and you did not grasp what i wrote mate! especially for you i will now slowly type and repeat that with every Baht i spend in Thailand i pay a pro rata share of income tax of the Thai producer, the Thai distributor, the Thai shop and the Thai salesman who sell any product to me (or my wife). cost and all Thai taxes of the afore-mentioned Thai parties are included in the price i pay.

 

as far as delusion is concerned... i mentioned nowhere that i consider myself a big contributor to the Thai economy even though i spend since more than a dozen years annually the equivalent income of ~400 Thai low level employees. 

 

 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

absolutely correct bazza,  Australia is ridiculously expensive for what it has to offer ...

food prices are at the top,  a cup cake is $5 at the markets, electricity is highest it has been and many go without food just to pay the bill,  telstra takes your remaining credit of your pre paid if you don't use it ( which I think stinks )  fuel is expensive, accom is expensive, house prices are out of reach of the average worker. Banks charge what they like.

Thailand is heaven compared to many western countries imo,  we don't realise how good we have it.

but you have to admit that Australia has its advantages. no communication problem as most of the people speak Austra-y-lian and you have the right to pay income tax.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

You aren't paying your share of income tax indirectly  by the very definition of the words  "income" tax. Buying an air conditioner etc with money that you have payed income tax on by your home country doesn't constitute any "income" tax paid to Thailand. You pay VAT and only VAT. Quit deluding yourself that you are a huge contributor to the Thai economy.

Do you have any idea of what the income tax share is in the nation's total tax revenue?

Not much, that I can tell you.

Even in rich countries, in Europe for example, where workers are well paid, indirect taxes such as VAT represent the bulk of the nations' revenue (40% in France, for example).

In Thailand, people employed with a fixed income (salary...) and paying income tax, social security and so on, are a small minority.

Why do you think they have 2% unemployment?

Because to be officially unemployed, one has to have been employed in the first place.

Millions of adults are still farmers, street vendors, construction workers...all getting an undeclared income.

The big taxes in Thailand are not so much the VAT, which is not paid on many transactions, but for example taxes on cars and gasoline.

When a Westerner buys a new car, he pays much more taxes to the state than the average Thai pays in income tax...

 

[dotpoom]

Mark Twain once said what the two most important days in a person's life are....."The day they were born, and the day they discovered why".

   I guess that is the only question worth thinking about ( for myself only).

[Naam]

4 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Do you have any idea of what the income tax share is in the nation's total tax revenue?

Not much, that I can tell you.

"not much" because you have no idea that corporations/companies pay income tax too.

 

read and learn!

Quote

Corporate Income Tax (CIT) is a direct tax levied on a juristic company or partnership carrying on business in Thailand or not carrying on business in Thailand but deriving certain types of income from Thailand.

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

All companies, including other forms of legal entities, that are registered under Thai law, or that are incorporated underforeign law and carry on business in Thailand, are subject to corporate income tax.

Companies registered underforeign law and carrying on business in Thailand are taxed on their net profits arising from their business activities inThailand.

 

 

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

I don't consider the Thais should be bowing and scraping to us just because we retired here with more money than the average Thai. We are a minor part of their economy.

Farang, at least those who are the chronic whiners, seem to need constant, demonstrable displays of love and appreciation or else they whinge about "they don't want us here" or "they only want our money."

 

All it takes to set them off is one 7/Eleven cashier who frowns or one taxi driver who is disagreeable.

 

Aside from the financial benefits derived from farang tourists and long term residents, why would any typical Thai care whether or not "we" came to Thailand? Most countries do want tourists or foreigners with skills or money to invest because it supposedly benefits their economy, but I doubt many cashiers or taxi drivers in any country spend much time expressing their gratitude to random foreigners or give a rat's a** whether any foreign individual stays or leaves. 

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Suradit69 said:

Farang, at least those who are the chronic whiners, seem to need constant, demonstrable displays of love and appreciation or else they whinge about "they don't want us here" or "they only want our money."

[khunPer]

On 11/23/2017 at 1:33 PM, TonyClifton said:

I could easily spend my money in Vietnam and maybe I will. 

Perhaps you'll be more happy there...

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

"not much" because you have no idea that corporations/companies pay income tax too.

 

read and learn!

 

 

 

 

I was refering to the personal income tax, because this thread is about people, not corporations.

 

Posters above are arguing about their contribution, as persons, not in comparison with multinational conglomerates.

 

Having said that, the existence of a tax, and how much is collected via this tax, are two very different things.

 

Very rich and successful corporations, the world over, are known for paying very little income tax, if any.

 

Now, master, as a good student always eager to learn, I would appreciate if you could provide some figures showing how much is collected via this corporate income tax, and what share of the Thai national tax revenue this represents.

 

Thank you in advance...

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Brunolem
Spelling