"Foreigners against smoking ban" video hits the internet as authorities scurry to explain

[zoza]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

1 hour ago, zoza said:

America you are not allowed to smoke in public by law.

Misleading as a general remark.

It's enclosed public places and certain inside workplaces such as bars.

https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/assets/factsheets/0332.pdf

Such is not the same as Thailand where smoking is being banned outdoors. Nor is it being done for health reasons. In fact by forcing smokers into small enclosures at the beaches, smokers face greater dangers to their health.

 

60 out of 72 of America's largest Cities ban smoking in Bars and Restaurant's

the 12 others are mainly in southern states. so yes not a total ban

yes forcing the poor smokers into small enclosures and making them breathe in

all their own smoke alone is wrong.....lol maybe they should think about packing

in or going for a nice stroll away from the busy parts of the beach, that would be

beneficial to all parties and obviously keep their stumps in their swimsuits...  

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Maybe something has been lost in translation but smoking bans are for non-smokers health. If smokers were concerned about their own health then they would not be smoking.

You are missing the point; it's easy to do on these sorts of threads. The smoking ban is primarily about littering on the beach, ostensibly anyway. 

 

But if it were about the dangers of second hand smoke there is no case.  The dangers of passive smoking have been greatly over-egged as real studies show, and really don't exist on the beach, or anywhere outside.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Still don't like the smell of it, sends me into a coughing fit and leaves my throat with this dryness if that makes sense, i.e. like some layer around it that makes it feel as if something is coated on it, who knows, I could be allergic to cigarette smoke ? 

 

Just walking around with irritation from borderline allergies like many of us, waiting to stumble in to a trigger, which could come from any number of causes.  Make sense?

 

The real problem is air pollution.

 

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

You are missing the point; it's easy to do on these sorts of threads. The smoking ban is primarily about littering on the beach, ostensibly anyway. 

 

But if it were about the dangers of second hand smoke there is no case.  The dangers of passive smoking have been greatly over-egged as real studies show, and really don't exist on the beach, or anywhere outside.

I remember this back home, my forefathers spent many years of their lives living with these conditions, plus many smoked...Most lived till their late eighties and nineties, not one passed on with lung cancer...Perhaps good genes...

[bodymassagemyfriend]

On 08/12/2017 at 7:18 AM, mark01 said:

Far more effective would have been to just install ashtrays.

Far more beneficial would be to stop litter and build an effective drainage system instead of skimming off all the money.

Far more efficient would habe been to educat smokers ,  when i eat a candy i am not dropping the paper on the ground , arguing that i dont have a trashcan walking next to me.

Smokers should have a portable ashtrays , this would also prevent them for smoking a lot.

Each time you give people the freedom to abuse of it. I am sure 99% if i drop a paper on the floor , smoker will tell me i am dirty , while they look at me and put their foot on the cigarette butt on the floor.

[mommysboy]

8 minutes ago, bodymassagemyfriend said:

Far more efficient would habe been to educat smokers ,  when i eat a candy i am not dropping the paper on the ground , arguing that i dont have a trashcan walking next to me.

Smokers should have a portable ashtrays , this would also prevent them for smoking a lot.

Each time you give people the freedom to abuse of it. I am sure 99% if i drop a paper on the floor , smoker will tell me i am dirty , while they look at me and put their foot on the cigarette butt on the floor.

An utterly imagined scenario.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, zoza said:

60 out of 72 of America's largest Cities ban smoking in Bars and Restaurant's

the 12 others are mainly in southern states. so yes not a total ban

yes forcing the poor smokers into small enclosures and making them breathe in

all their own smoke alone is wrong.....lol maybe they should think about packing

in or going for a nice stroll away from the busy parts of the beach, that would be

beneficial to all parties and obviously keep their stumps in their swimsuits...  

Or maybe the authorities can simply provide butt disposal containers and/or sweep the beach each morning to leave a tourist-friendly beach environment. Why pick a fight with an industry that is one of the few contributors to the nation's higher GDP growth, from 10% in 2012 to 17% now?

[sambum]

15 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

15 pages of moaning will change nothing. Do you respect Thai law or not?

Smoke on Pattaya beaches 1 year jail or 100,000 Bahts fine. If you have a problem with this go back to your country,  or go to Cambodia or Vietnam. Good riddance you are not wanted here on beaches with a ciggy dangling from your stinking gob.

Smoke on Pattaya beaches 1 year jail or 100,000 Bahts fine. If you have a problem with this go back to your country

 

Yet another one adds a scintillating comment to the thread!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by sambum

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Or maybe the authorities can simply provide butt disposal containers and/or sweep the beach each morning to leave a tourist-friendly beach environment. Why pick a fight with an industry that is one of the few contributors to the nation's higher GDP growth, from 10% in 2012 to 17% now?

I come from a seaside town.  The beach is cleaned every evening during high season; all sorts of rubbish gets turned up, with broken glass and needles being the most hazardous.  I'm surprised the authorities don't do this.  To pick on one small cohort as the root of all evil is kind of cranky, but what do you expect?...

[sambum]

8 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Or maybe the authorities can simply provide butt disposal containers and/or sweep the beach each morning to leave a tourist-friendly beach environment. Why pick a fight with an industry that is one of the few contributors to the nation's higher GDP growth, from 10% in 2012 to 17% now?

From a previous post, they don't know how to clean the beach!!!

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

butt disposal containers

What a novel idea!

 

[HHTel]

19 minutes ago, sambum said:

Do you respect Thai law or not?

Yes, to a point, but do the Thais.  Once they respect the law then visitors would have more respect.  Just now they provide a bad example and is naturally copied by visitors.  "When in Rome do as the Romans do!"

[badischer Barde]

17 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Let me tell you what bugs me. People always trying to tell me how I should live my life and what I have to do and how I should quit smoking, when in reality it is none of there damned business what I do.

Oh I just love to hear this sentence from smokers. It confirms what I wrote. They are rude enough to annoy everybody around them with their stench, but feel oppressed if the vast and annoyed majority of non-smokers pass a law against it.

And react like a 12-year old. You're not my father, you can't tell me what to yadda, yadda...

No, you can live your life however you want to. As long as you allow the same to everybody else. And if the majority chooses to live their lifes without beeing bothered by cigarette smoke, then smoke where you don't disturb anyone.

 

My freedom to swing my fists ends where my neighbours nose beginns. Incidently... so does your freedom to spread your carcinogenic fumes.

[Mac98]

On 12/9/2017 at 2:13 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Haven't smelt the smoke from a pipe since when my dad was alive, didn't mind it back then, but couldn't tell you today, although I don't believe the smell of tobacco from a pipe would trigger coughing attacks or irritate one ?

I get compliments from some passerby, women included. Cherry almond. Good tobacco that I have to bring over. The stuff they sell here, even in best of places, is awful.

[Mac98]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

Smoke on Pattaya beaches 1 year jail or 100,000 Bahts fine. If you have a problem with this go back to your country

 

Yet another one adds a scintillating comment to the thread!

 

 

 

 

In response to the screeching nutcase at top, he says if you don't like the law then leave. The former law was you could smoke on the beach. Did he leave? No, he was barking at legal smokers, spittle flying, wanting everything 100% his way.

[badischer Barde]

11 hours ago, nisakiman said:

Who pays those speaking against smoking? Don't make me laugh. Tobacco Control is a global gravy train, and they will do and say anything to make sure the wheels don't come off.

 

Like they say, if you want to get to the truth, just follow the money...

I might be missing the point here, but since when is "don't make me laugh" a legitimate substitute for an explanation. So again: How does one make money by banning smoking?

You sound exactly like all those climate change sceptics believing anthropogenic climate change were an invention of some secret council of scientists somehow making the big bucks trying to reduce CO² emissions.

 

Unfortunately for both smokers and SUV-drivers it is evident that you make money by selling stuff, not by preventing the selling of stuff.

 

Oh, right... sources:

https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/reports/federal-trade-commission-cigarette-report-2015-federal-trade-commission-smokeless-tobacco-report/2015_cigarette_report.pdf?utm_source=govdelivery

 

8 Billion $ for cigarette marketing 2015 in the US. That buys a bunch of 'scientists' and lobbyists, wouldn't you say?

 

Now: your turn. Post a nice, reliable source for your "gravy train" hypothesis.

I somehow doubt that the US finances anything health-related with more then 8 billion $

[badischer Barde]

18 hours ago, mommysboy said:

There seems to be quite a few people who find a whiff of cigarette smoke extremely offensive judging by the language they choose, and this poster provides one example: 'stench'.  Yet to me it is rather a neutral odour, sometimes quite pleasant.

oh well.. I smoked one cigarette when I was.. young. Parents were big smokers, so I wanted to find out what's so great about this stinking habbit. Turns out: Nothing. You need to smoke several cigarettes in order to overcome your revulsion. When you get used to the stench and the scratching in your throat, and addiction sets in you keep smoking, find it hard to quit, and think cigarette smoke is actually ok and others are just over-sensitive.

That's one of the reasons smokers and non-smokers don't get along so well. We forget you're weakwilled addicts, and you forget how disgusting cigarettes are to non-addicts, and were once to you before you got used to them.

 

Interestingly, many find the smell of a pipe quite ok. It is almost as carcinogenic as cigarette smoke, but the tobacco is much higher quality (cigarettes were once invented to sell the dry leftovers), and at least smells - if not pleasant, so at least more acceptable.

 

18 hours ago, mommysboy said:

My friend, it simply is a place you shouldn't be with your unfortunate sensitivity.

Yes, thank you for confirming. I have no problems with smell in Thailand. Because non of us is used to the smell of food leftovers marinating in the sun. We both find it disgusting. You are addicted and used to cigarettes, so think it's ok and everybody complaining is oversensitive.

I'm not, so for me it's equally disgustig. But you quickly pass those rare garbage cans that stink really bad. Have yet to see one walking in front of me for hundreds of meters...

[Mac98]

15 hours ago, Grumpy Duck said:

Ever heard of cancer of the mouth?

"However, even when not inhaling, cigarand pipe smokers are at increased riskfor cancer of the oral cavity and lungs. ... More than 28 cancer-causing chemicals have been found in smokeless tobacco. Chewing tobacco and snuff can cause cancer in the cheek, gums, and lips."

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/oral_health/oral_cancer_and_tobacco_85,P00900

 

An exerpt from cancer.org

Harmful Chemicals in Tobacco Products

Tobacco smoke

Cigarettes, cigars, and pipe tobacco are made from dried tobacco leaves. Other substances are added for flavor and to make smoking more pleasant. The smoke from these products is a complex mixture of chemicals produced by burning tobacco and its additives.

Tobacco smoke is made up of thousands of chemicals, including at least 70 known to cause cancer. These cancer-causing chemicals are referred to as carcinogens. Some of the chemicals found in tobacco smoke include:· 

• Nicotine (the addictive drug that produces the effect people are looking for and one of the harshest chemicals in tobacco smoke)
• Hydrogen cyanide
• Formaldehyde
• Lead
• Arsenic
• Ammonia
• Radioactive elements, such as uranium (see below)
• Benzene
• Carbon monoxide
• Nitrosamines
• Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)

Many of these substances cause cancer. Some can cause heart disease, lung disease, or other serious health problems, too. Most of the substances come from the burning tobacco leaves themselves, not from additives included in cigarettes (or other tobacco products). 

Radioactive materials in tobacco smoke

Radioactive materials are in the tobacco leaves used to make cigarettes and cigars. These materials come from the fertilizer and soil used to grow the tobacco leaves, so the amount in tobacco depends on the soil the plants were grown in and the type of fertilizers used. These radioactive materials are given off in the smoke when tobacco is burned, which smokers take into their lungs as they inhale. This may be another key factor in smokers getting lung cancer.

Is cigar smoke different?

Cigar smoke pretty much has the same toxic and carcinogenic compounds as cigarette smoke, but some of them are present at different levels.

Because of the aging process used to make cigars, cigar tobacco has high concentrations of some nitrogen compounds (nitrates and nitrites). When the fermented cigar tobacco is smoked, these compounds give off several tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs), some of the most potent cancer-causing substances known.

Also, because the cigar wrapper is less porous than a cigarette wrapper, the tobacco doesn’t burn as completely. This results in higher concentrations of nitrogen oxides, ammonia, carbon monoxide, and tar – all very harmful substances.

Smokeless tobacco products

Smokeless tobacco products include snuff and chewing tobacco that is put into the mouth or nose but is not burned like cigarettes or cigars. Still, smokeless products in the United States contain a variety of potentially harmful chemicals, including high levels of TSNAs. 

There are also other cancer-causing agents in smokeless tobacco, such as benzo[a]pyrene and other polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). These carcinogens are absorbed through the mouth and may be why several types of cancer are linked to the use of smokeless tobacco. Like other forms of tobacco, smokeless tobacco also contains radioactive substances. 

Snus (pronounced ‘snoose’) is a type of moist snuff that does not require spitting. It was first used in Sweden and Norway, but it is now available in the United States as well. Snus generally has lower levels of nicotine and TSNAs than traditional moist snuff brands, but can still be addictive and has been linked to some types of cancer. 

Which is riskier? Smokeless tobacco or cigarette smoking?

Smokeless tobacco products are less deadly than cigarettes. On average, they kill fewer people than cigarettes. Smokeless products are often promoted as a less harmful alternative to smoking, but they are still linked with cancer and can still be deadly. And they have not been proven to help smokers quit.

E-cigarettes and similar devices

E-cigarettes and other electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) are often used as substitutes for cigarettes or other tobacco products.

Marketers of e-cigarettes and other ENDS often claim the ingredients are safe. But the aerosols these products produce can contain addictive nicotine, flavorings, and a variety of other chemicals, some known to be toxic or to cause cancer. The levels of many of these substances appear to be lower than in traditional cigarettes, but the amounts of nicotine and other substances in these products can vary widely because they are not standardized. The long-term health effects of these devices are not known, but they are being studied. 

 

If second hand smoke from one source is bad and needs to be banned the same should go for all sources. However, the argument in the case of the Pattaya law is littering, so the second hand smoke in a wide open environment is a poor argument. 

The topic was pipe smoking, then your sources go off on smokeless tobacco, chewing tobacco, snuff, hookhas, e-cigarettes, cigars. Sources cite chemicals in cigars and cigarettes, saying little about pipes, which few people inhale. Your main argument is asking, "You ever heard of cancer cancer of the mouth?" CDC says vast majority of such incidents are caused by chewing tobacco. The few related to pipe smoking are minor and easily treated. How easily are people's sugar intake problems treated? I want sugar banned and I'm going to stomp my feet and screech until they keep these fatties hidden away. Imagine what role models they are for children! Down with Santa!

[sambum]

4 hours ago, bodymassagemyfriend said:

Far more efficient would habe been to educat smokers ,  when i eat a candy i am not dropping the paper on the ground , arguing that i dont have a trashcan walking next to me.

Smokers should have a portable ashtrays , this would also prevent them for smoking a lot.

Each time you give people the freedom to abuse of it. I am sure 99% if i drop a paper on the floor , smoker will tell me i am dirty , while they look at me and put their foot on the cigarette butt on the floor.

"Far more efficient would habe been to educat smokers ,  when i eat a candy i am not dropping the paper on the ground" 

 

I think you will find that most farang smokers will use an ashtray when one is provided - no education needed, and the same thing applies to candy wrappers when a trash can is provided.

 

However, I think you should address your comments re ash trays, candy papers and wrappers to Thais - the soi where I live is a disgrace with all kinds of rubbish just dropped on to the ground, but an absence of trashcans is also to blame - removed by the authorities because people weren't paying their "garbage collection tax". That had the desired effect then, didn't it?  

Edited December 10, 2017 by sambum

[badischer Barde]

40 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Down with Santa!

Ok, Mr. Grinch, you have a deal.

You ban smokers from public places, and in exchange you can keep the coca cola sponsored fatso in red.

 

Then again.. you can avert your eyes, if fat kids are so terrible for you. Averting ones nose is somewhat more difficult.

[DrTuner]

I wish there was a place where smoking is obligatory. I might move there and start just to get rid of the folks on crusade against a wee bit of smoke.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, badischer Barde said:

oh well.. I smoked one cigarette when I was.. young. Parents were big smokers, so I wanted to find out what's so great about this stinking habbit. Turns out: Nothing. You need to smoke several cigarettes in order to overcome your revulsion. When you get used to the stench and the scratching in your throat, and addiction sets in you keep smoking, find it hard to quit, and think cigarette smoke is actually ok and others are just over-sensitive.

That's one of the reasons smokers and non-smokers don't get along so well. We forget you're weakwilled addicts, and you forget how disgusting cigarettes are to non-addicts, and were once to you before you got used to them.

 

Interestingly, many find the smell of a pipe quite ok. It is almost as carcinogenic as cigarette smoke, but the tobacco is much higher quality (cigarettes were once invented to sell the dry leftovers), and at least smells - if not pleasant, so at least more acceptable.

 

Yes, thank you for confirming. I have no problems with smell in Thailand. Because non of us is used to the smell of food leftovers marinating in the sun. We both find it disgusting. You are addicted and used to cigarettes, so think it's ok and everybody complaining is oversensitive.

I'm not, so for me it's equally disgustig. But you quickly pass those rare garbage cans that stink really bad. Have yet to see one walking in front of me for hundreds of meters...

 

Must have been bad being around 2 smokers in the house, especially if one is sensitive to fumes, prone to allergies, etc.  Thankfully, most smokers wouldnt dream of doing it now.

 

But it sounds like you are still fighting yesterday's battle.

 

I remember mum asking dad if it was wise to smoke in front of us kids when we were in the lounge relaxing.  I said it was ok, nice even.  Needless to say, I was soon smoking.

 

Thankfully, the inconvenience you now face is very small , isn't it?  You should really be able to take it more comfortably in your stride.  If Thailand wasn't so stupid regarding vaping, there would be even less of a problem.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by mommysboy

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

In response to the screeching nutcase at top, he says if you don't like the law then leave. The former law was you could smoke on the beach. Did he leave? No, he was barking at legal smokers, spittle flying, wanting everything 100% his way.

What a nonsense strawman and rubbish. There was no such “former law”. Freedom means most things are allowed unless they are specifically prohibited.

If Bhutan would give me a long term visa maybe I’d move there though, tobacco completely banned.

[sambum]

3 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

What a nonsense strawman and rubbish. There was no such “former law”. Freedom means most things are allowed unless they are specifically prohibited.

If Bhutan would give me a long term visa maybe I’d move there though, tobacco completely banned.

I'd wish you Bon Voyage!

[The Teacher]

Smoke on the beach and get a 100,000baht fine and Jail. Kill a person on the road get a 5000Baht fine sounds like injustice to me 

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:44 PM, Jimdandy said:

What about the family with the children 5 meters away? Should they have their day ruined by second hand smoke? 

Have their day ruined?  I think that's a bit OTT mate.  People are becoming over sensitive about smoke since smoking bans came in.

Kids used to grow up in houses with both parents and all their friends smoking 40 a day around them. That was bad. But to complain about a few puffs of smoke, outside, 5 metres away?!

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 2:39 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Still don't like the smell of it, sends me into a coughing fit and leaves my throat with this dryness if that makes sense, i.e. like some layer around it that makes it feel as if something is coated on it, who knows, I could be allergic to cigarette smoke ? 

Yes, you could be allergic to cigarette smoke. And that can't be very nice. You should try to avoid areas where people will be smoking.  Or maybe talk to a doctor / pharmacist / health professional.

 

My brother has always suffered with hay fever. I've never heard him call for a ban on flowers though...  

[Sir Dude]

I guess most foreigners view it as petty social fascism....ironically what they go on holiday to avoid for a couple of weeks, haha.

[wavemanwww]

10 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

I guess most foreigners view it as petty social fascism....ironically what they go on holiday to avoid for a couple of weeks, haha.

 

10 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

I guess most foreigners view it as petty social fascism....ironically what they go on holiday to avoid for a couple of weeks, haha.

Your guess is totally wrong! End of story! ha ha

[wavemanwww]

8 hours ago, The Teacher said:

Smoke on the beach and get a 100,000baht fine and Jail. Kill a person on the road get a 5000Baht fine sounds like injustice to me 

More like 500 baht fine!