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[webfact]

May makes dawn flight to Brussels as Brexit deal seems done

By Alastair Macdonald and Guy Faulconbridge

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May is welcomed by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker at the EC headquarters in Brussels, Belgium December 8, 2017. REUTERS/Yves Herman

 

BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May met European Union chief executive Jean-Claude Juncker before dawn in Brussels on Friday after a night flight from London, apparently having clinched a deal to open talks on post-Brexit trade.

 

Neither answered when asked if a deal was done as they shook hands after May arrived at the European Commission's building but shortly afterwards Juncker's chief-of-staff tweeted a picture of white smoke emerging from a Vatican chimney - an indication that the European Union believes a deal is done.

 

May's key parliamentary ally in Northern Ireland said a text clarifying arrangements on the UK-EU border on the island of Ireland had been agreed, four days after 11th-hour objections from Belfast scuppered May's attempt to sign off on an accord over the Irish border during a lunch in Brussels on Monday.

 

The Commission said May and Juncker would brief reporters in the hour after their 7 a.m. (0600 GMT) breakfast meeting.

 

May would then meet European Council President Donald Tusk around 8 a.m. and hold a further news conference around 8:30 a.m. with the man who will chair a crunch summit next Friday where May hopes EU leaders will grant her trade negotiations.

 

EU and Irish officials had said earlier that Britain and Ireland were hours from agreement on a text outlining how they would run their post-Brexit land border on the island of Ireland, paving the way for a deal that would remove the last obstacle to opening free-trade talks with the European Union.

 

A carefully choreographed attempt to showcase the progress of Brexit talks collapsed at the last minute on Monday when the Northern Irish party that props up May's government vetoed a draft deal already agreed with the government in Dublin.

 

Since then, May has been scrambling to clinch a deal on the new UK-EU land border in Ireland that is acceptable to the EU, Dublin, her own lawmakers and Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), which keeps her government in power.

 

DUP leader Arlene Foster negotiated through the early hours with May, a DUP source told Reuters. Foster said a text was ready that removed her concerns that Northern Ireland would leave the EU on different terms from the rest of the United Kingdom. Dublin and the EU want "regulatory alignment" on both sides of the border after Brexit to avoid disrupting the peace.

 

Foster told Sky News: "We're pleased to see those change because for me it means there's no red line down the Irish Sea and we have the very clear confirmation that the entirety of the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union, leaving the single market, leaving the customs union."

 

"There are still matters there that we would have liked to have seen clarified, we ran out of time essentially, we think that we needed to go back again and talk about those matters but the prime minister has decided to go to Brussels in relation to this text and she says she has done that in the national interest."

 

Moving to talks about trade and a Brexit transition are crucial for the future of May's premiership, and to keep trade flowing between the world's biggest trading bloc and its sixth largest national economy after Britain leaves on March 30, 2019.

 

But the EU will only move to trade talks if there is enough progress on three key issues: the money Britain must pay to the EU; rights for EU citizens in Britain and British citizens in the EU; and how to avoid a hard border with Ireland.

 

BREXIT DEAL?

 

The EU says May has an effective deadline of Sunday night if she wants to seal a deal and hope to have agreement on trade talks in time for the EU summit on Dec. 15.

 

All sides say they want to avoid a return to a hard border between EU member Ireland and the British-ruled province of Northern Ireland, which might upset the peace established after decades of violence.

 

The DUP insists that Northern Ireland, as part of the United Kingdom, must leave the EU in the same way as the rest of the United Kingdom.

 

To clinch a deal, though, May must ensure she has the support of the DUP, whose leader told her bluntly on Monday that it would not support her minority government's legislation unless the Irish border draft deal was changed.

 

She must also convince her divided Conservative Party that the deal she makes is acceptable.

 

(Reporting by Alastair Macdonald in BRUSSELS and Guy Faulconbridge in LONDON; Editing by Paul Tait)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-08

[webfact]

BREAKING NEWS

EU's Juncker on Brexit talks: We have made the breakthrough we needed /REUTERS

 

 

[webfact]

Aide to EU Commission head tweets picture of white smoke at Brexit meeting with May

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Martin Selmayr, a top aide to the head of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker, signaled on Friday there was an agreement on Britain's divorce terms with the EU by tweeting a picture of white smoke that is a symbol of the election of a new pope.

 

Juncker, Selmayr and the EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier are at a working breakfast with British Prime Minister Theresa May in Brussels.

 

(Reporting By Alastair Macdonald; Writing by Jan Strupczewski; Editing by Richard Borsuk)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-08

[webfact]

Britain and EU reach deal to move Brexit talks forward

By Alastair Macdonald and Guy Faulconbridge

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May is welcomed by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker at the EC headquarters in Brussels, Belgium December 8, 2017. REUTERS/Yves Herman

 

BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - The European Commission said on Friday enough progress had been made in Brexit negotiations with Britain and that a second phase of negotiations should begin, ending an impasse over the status of the Irish border.

 

The Commission announced its verdict in an early morning statement after intense talks, which resulted in British Prime Minister Theresa May taking an early-morning flight to Brussels to announce the deal alongside Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker.

 

The Commission's recommendation that sufficient progress has been made will now go to the European Union summit of leaders taking place next week. May said she expected a formal agreement to be approved at the summit.

 

"Prime Minister May has assured me that it has the backing of the UK government. On that basis, I believe we have now made the breakthrough we need. Today's result is of course a compromise," Juncker told a hastily arranged news conference.

 

The commission said it was ready to begin work immediately on Phase Two talks, which cover trade and long-term relations with the bloc.

 

Moving to talks about trade and a Brexit transition is crucial for the future of May's premiership, and to keep trade flowing between the world's biggest trading bloc and its sixth- largest national economy after Britain leaves on March 30, 2019.

 

May's key parliamentary ally in Northern Ireland said a text clarifying arrangements on the UK-EU border on the island of Ireland had been agreed, four days after 11th-hour objections from Belfast scuppered May's attempt to sign off on an accord over the Irish border during a lunch in Brussels on Monday.

 

A carefully choreographed attempt to showcase the progress of Brexit talks collapsed at the last minute when the Northern Irish party that props up May's government vetoed a draft deal already agreed with the government in Dublin.

 

Since then, May has been scrambling to clinch a deal on the border in Ireland acceptable to the EU, Dublin, her own lawmakers and Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), which keeps her government in power.

 

(Reporting by Alastair Macdonald in Brussels and Guy Faulconbridge in London, additional reporting by William James in London, editing by Larry King)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-08

[Grouse]

Well? Go on! What's the deal?

[Orac]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well? Go on! What's the deal?

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/files/joint-report-negotiators-european-union-and-united-kingdom-government-progress-during-phase-1-negotiations-under-article-50-teu-united-kingdoms-orderly-withdrawal-european-union_en

[terryw]

The deal is a fudge to enable both parties to begin trade talks. Most of the areas of disagreement have been put to one side to be discussed at a later date.

[ballpoint]

19 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well? Go on! What's the deal?

The UK will leave the EU, however:

 

Will still pay an annual seven figure sum for being able to bask in the radiance of Europe

Must still allow free movement of anyone who happens to be inside the EU at the time, however UK citizens will require a passport and visa to travel to the EU

Will still be subject to EU laws and rulings

Must not impose any import duties on goods from the EU, but goods going the other way will be heavily taxed

Must not make separate trade deals with non EU countries

Must pay the costs of all banks and other companies that wish to relocate from London

Will have no voting rights

Must begin the compulsory teaching of German for all school children, as all lessons will be conducted in German by 2025

Will gradually phase out the Pound and introduce the Euro by the same date

Must hand over all assets and ownership of the country to the EU should they break any of these rules, or even think about holding another referendum to leave

Must not believe everything they read on TV, especially posts that are not intended to be taken seriously, even if they could have a hint of truth about them.

 

[emilymat]

One wonders if this was all a set up. No agreement with DUP until the last moment, then dramatic early morning flight to Brussels, showing what an 'ace' negotiator she is.

 

My only surprise she did not return and wave a peace of paper on the tarmac like Chamberlain. Cynic? maybe.

[Bluespunk]

So soft it is. 

[RickBradford]

Aide to EU Commission head tweets picture of white smoke at Brexit meeting with May

 

That wasn't white smoke, it was a white flag being waved by Mrs May.

[RuamRudy]

[Orac]

One wonders if this was all a set up. No agreement with DUP until the last moment, then dramatic early morning flight to Brussels, showing what an 'ace' negotiator she is.
 
My only surprise she did not return and wave a peace of paper on the tarmac like Chamberlain. Cynic? maybe.

Arlene Foster, amongst others, is still spouting the “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” soundbite so it could be TM couldn’t wave her bit of paper as her hands are still stuck behind her back with her fingers crossed.

TM now needs to get on with negotiating the best deal possible and if she can do this without pandering to the hard right there is a possibility that something positive might come out of this.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Arlene Foster, amongst others, is still spouting the “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” soundbite so it could be TM couldn’t wave her bit of paper as her hands are still stuck behind her back with her fingers crossed.

TM now needs to get on with negotiating the best deal possible and if she can do this without pandering to the hard right there is a possibility that something positive might come out of this.
 

 

If she can achieve consensus with the hard brexiteers in the Tory party, she will certainly rise in my estimations.

 

Heavyweight Brexiteers among 60 Tory MPs to demand clean break from the EU

"Sixty Tory MPs including seven ex-Cabinet ministers have demanded Theresa May pulls Britain out of the single market and customs union amid fears her Brexit stance could be watered down. Michael Gove, Iain Duncan Smith, John Whittingdale and Theresa Villiers are among the leading Eurosceptics to put their names to the negotiation demand."

[billd766]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

If she can achieve consensus with the hard brexiteers in the Tory party, she will certainly rise in my estimations.

 

Heavyweight Brexiteers among 60 Tory MPs to demand clean break from the EU

"Sixty Tory MPs including seven ex-Cabinet ministers have demanded Theresa May pulls Britain out of the single market and customs union amid fears her Brexit stance could be watered down. Michael Gove, Iain Duncan Smith, John Whittingdale and Theresa Villiers are among the leading Eurosceptics to put their names to the negotiation demand."

 

As my drill instructor used to say many years ago,

 

"If they can't take a joke, then they shouldn't have joined".

 

He was right. <deleted> 'em.

 

Get behind the PM and the country and do your job which is NOT tossing your toys out of the pram or spitting your dummy out.

 

ALL those 60 MPs were elected by their constituency to work fo the people of that constituency.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

As my drill instructor used to say many years ago,

 

"If they can't take a joke, then they shouldn't have joined".

 

He was right. <deleted> 'em.

 

Get behind the PM and the country and do your job which is NOT tossing your toys out of the pram or spitting your dummy out.

 

ALL those 60 MPs were elected by their constituency to work fo the people of that constituency.

But were it that simple. It seems that the public is behind the 60:

 

Even Remainers now back a 'hard' Brexit: Most Brits want to regain full control of our borders and to become free of meddling EU judges, survey reveals

 

This would definitely be popcorn time, if it was not so serious. 
 

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But were it that simple. It seems that the public is behind the 60:

 

Even Remainers now back a 'hard' Brexit: Most Brits want to regain full control of our borders and to become free of meddling EU judges, survey reveals

 

This would definitely be popcorn time, if it was not so serious. 
 

 

I read the story however in there it said

 

quote " The survey of 3,293 people by the London School of Economics (LSE) and Oxford University found that when questioned in detail about their views, many favoured the elements of a so-called ‘hard Brexit’."

 

3,293 people is not IMHO what I would consider "most Brits" by any standard.

 

If you were to read a story about Brexit in the Mail, Express or Sun and then read the same story in the Guardian, Independent etc and ignore the obvious bias from each of them, then the real story would be somewhere in the middle.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I read the story however in there it said

 

quote " The survey of 3,293 people by the London School of Economics (LSE) and Oxford University found that when questioned in detail about their views, many favoured the elements of a so-called ‘hard Brexit’."

 

3,293 people is not IMHO what I would consider "most Brits" by any standard.

 

If you were to read a story about Brexit in the Mail, Express or Sun and then read the same story in the Guardian, Independent etc and ignore the obvious bias from each of them, then the real story would be somewhere in the middle.

Indeed, and those most adept at spin will introduce whatever nuances they think will play best with the masses. Farage is calling the result a cop-out; the remainers are suggesting that we are giving up all the rights and accepting all the restrictions of EU membership. God knows how the Mail and Express will report it, but the PM needs to sell this to all - a tough job, I am sure. 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

3 hours ago, terryw said:

The deal is a fudge to enable both parties to begin trade talks. Most of the areas of disagreement have been put to one side to be discussed at a later date.

So, you are saying that it was the EU which backed down from its original insistence on real progress on those points before trade talks could begin?  Some compromise from the EU side at last then, as Juncker admitted at the  press conference?

Edited December 9, 2017 by Retiredandhappyhere
Clarification

[Srikcir]

51 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I read the story however in there it said

 

quote " The survey of 3,293 people by the London School of Economics (LSE) and Oxford University found that when questioned in detail about their views, many favoured the elements of a so-called ‘hard Brexit’."

 

3,293 people is not IMHO what I would consider "most Brits" by any standard.

 

If you were to read a story about Brexit in the Mail, Express or Sun and then read the same story in the Guardian, Independent etc and ignore the obvious bias from each of them, then the real story would be somewhere in the middle.

People need to put the poll in its correct context.

For example, data was collected on April 26-27. This is not a new poll in August, but a photograph in time from one week after Theresa May called the snap election. 

"... the whole debacle shows exactly why you should not publish conclusions in the press before checking those conclusions are agreed by your scientific peers."

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/this-was-neither-up-to-date-nor-a-poll-and-not-a-single-participant-voiced-their-support-for-hard-brexit-1-5153096

 

[goldenbrwn1]

https://news.sky.com/story/eu-wanted-up-to-75bn-in-brexit-divorce-bill-sources-11162517

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

But were it that simple. It seems that the public is behind the 60:

 

Even Remainers now back a 'hard' Brexit: Most Brits want to regain full control of our borders and to become free of meddling EU judges, survey reveals

 

This would definitely be popcorn time, if it was not so serious. 
 

The Mail?

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, terryw said:

The deal is a fudge to enable both parties to begin trade talks. Most of the areas of disagreement have been put to one side to be discussed at a later date.

Not really.  It's only the Northern Ireland deal and that is just a form of words.  "If no other agreement can be found then the UK will continue to abide by the single market and customs union regulations".  They then say that doesn't need to be decided until the final deal.  Anyone can see that that will be where we end up because there is no other option available.  Saying it can be decided later is just a distraction to soften the outrage.

 

There is now agreement on citizens rights and that includes the fact that until we leave in 2019 the UK is still open for any EU citizen to come and settle here.  Also that any EU citizen and their family members living in Britain can remain and all their current rights are protected.

 

The money issues are agreed in that the system for calculating them has been agreed. The projection is between £35 billion and £39 billion (about 44 billion euros) but that may rise depending on what trade deals are negotiated.

 

However none of this means much until we get to stage three which will be the actual trade talks.  First we have to agree a transition period which is being pitched at two years. The EU have said that any transition period would have to be under EU rules and that means that Britain cannot begin trade deals with any other countries until that period is concluded.  In other words no new trade deals until 2021.

 

But make no mistake there are going to be bigger hurdles as we go along and many more bitter arguments.

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

So, you are saying that it was the EU which backed down from its original insistence on real progress on those points before trade talks could begin?  Some compromise from the EU side at last then, as Juncker admitted at the  press conference?

Hard to see many compromises from the EU side to be honest, but we are where we are, which is trying to pick out some of the facts from all the spin.  Anyway the next set of negotiations are due in February so I think we can expect more mixed messages and confusion then.

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Not really.  It's only the Northern Ireland deal and that is just a form of words.  "If no other agreement can be found then the UK will continue to abide by the single market and customs union regulations".  They then say that doesn't need to be decided until the final deal.  Anyone can see that that will be where we end up because there is no other option available.  Saying it can be decided later is just a distraction to soften the outrage.

 

There is now agreement on citizens rights and that includes the fact that until we leave in 2019 the UK is still open for any EU citizen to come and settle here.  Also that any EU citizen and their family members living in Britain can remain and all their current rights are protected.

 

The money issues are agreed in that the system for calculating them has been agreed. The projection is between £35 billion and £39 billion (about 44 billion euros) but that may rise depending on what trade deals are negotiated.

 

However none of this means much until we get to stage three which will be the actual trade talks.  First we have to agree a transition period which is being pitched at two years. The EU have said that any transition period would have to be under EU rules and that means that Britain cannot begin trade deals with any other countries until that period is concluded.  In other words no new trade deals until 2021.

 

But make no mistake there are going to be bigger hurdles as we go along and many more bitter arguments.

I still think we should can Brexit and retain a say at the top table instead of just having to harmonise anyway but pay a ton of money. What IS the point?

[dunroaming]

38 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I still think we should can Brexit and retain a say at the top table instead of just having to harmonise anyway but pay a ton of money. What IS the point?

It is difficult to see now what can possibly be achieved by Brexit.  But still the children follow the piped piper.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Indeed, and those most adept at spin will introduce whatever nuances they think will play best with the masses. Farage is calling the result a cop-out; the remainers are suggesting that we are giving up all the rights and accepting all the restrictions of EU membership. God knows how the Mail and Express will report it, but the PM needs to sell this to all - a tough job, I am sure. 

 

Mrs May's job is not one that I would relish despite the good salary and perks that go along with it.

 

Brexit seems to be a very hot potato, just out of the oven that nobody wants to touch for very long.