Turkey says world must recognise East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital

[webfact]

Turkey says world must recognise East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital

 

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu gestures at a news conference in Ankara, Turkey, October 24, 2017. REUTERS/Umit Bektas/Files

 

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkey appealed on Wednesday for the world to recognise East Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state, as it opened an Islamic summit called in response to a U.S. decision to recognise the city as Israel's capital.

 

"Firstly the Palestinian state must be recognised by all other countries. We must all strive together for this," Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said as foreign ministers convened ahead of the full summit meeting.

 

"We must encourage other countries to recognise the Palestinian state on the basis of its 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital," Cavusoglu said.

 

Jerusalem, revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike, is home to Islam's third holiest site and has been at the heart of Israeli-Palestinian conflict for decades.

 

Israel captured Arab East Jerusalem in the 1967 Middle East war and later annexed it, an action not recognised internationally.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump's announcement last week recognising the city as Israel's capital led to protests in many Muslim countries. Turkey said it would plunge the world "into a fire with no end".

 

Turkey has invited leaders of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, a group of more than 50 Muslim nations, to Wednesday's meeting in Istanbul to formulate a joint response to Trump's decision.

 

(Reporting by Daren Butler; Editing by Dominic Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-13

[Elfin]

Of course East Jerusalem should be recognised as the Palestinian capital as well as Palestine being recognised as a state. After all, it is only fair to do this.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Elfin said:

Of course East Jerusalem should be recognised as the Palestinian capital as well as Palestine being recognised as a state. After all, it is only fair to do this.

 

Did Abbas ask for this when presented with Trump's decision? I don't think so, but willing to be corrected. IMO, neither side's leaderships is ready and willing for major concessions, among them the status of Jerusalem. While both pay lip service to some things, these fail to materialize as actual agreements, be it partial ones (as conceding anything might incur further concessions).

 

Seriously and officially asking for a USA recognition of only East Jerusalem as Palestinian territory is for all intents and purposes, the same as denouncing a claim for what Palestinians (at least many of them) still see as Palestinian land. I don't know that Abbas has it in him to actually cross the Rubicon, and of course, this sadly applies for Netanyahu as well.

[observer90210]

The boys in charge on each side will never stop this never ending saga...but the tensions created can escalate and give out a global paycheck.

[Morch]

 

Was bad enough with Erdogan and his gang fanning the flames, now Abbas just "had to" add this:

 

Abbas Calls on World to Reconsider Recognition of Israel After Trump's Jerusalem Move
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/1.828687

 

As expected, Abbas's reasoning is the same old set of generalizations regarding accumulated past actions, and supported by the USA. Don't know that's much of an argument for countries to change their standing policies en masse, and not too clear what he actually thinks will be achieved. While this may delight some posters, giving a fresh ground to regurgitate rants and tirades, the prospects of this doing anything positive for the Palestinian cause aren't bright.

 

* with regard to my previous post - no, not quite the same. Abbas made such general comments in the past, and like most such statements (from both sides), things tend to fizzle down when push comes to shove. This is more about posturing, I think.

[car720]

Where is King Baldwin when you need him?

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

The boys in charge on each side will never stop this never ending saga...but the tensions created can escalate and give out a global paycheck.

 

There's a difference between not stopping and making things worse. Fair enough to say Trump's move was bad and inflamed an already problematic situation, but more of the same from whichever party isn't going to do much good.

[smotherb]

well , the West Jerusalem should be the Christian capital

[crankshaft]

No one cares what Turkey thinks....

 

[sanemax]

And Northern Cyprus is Greek

[pegman]

Seems fair enough, get'er done E.U.! 

[Kiwiken]

Either both claims should be recognised or neither claim recognised. simple

[hawker9000]

It's kind of surprising that Erdogan's govt can take the time out from its never-ending opposition witch-hunt to start pasting up stupid pronouncements like this.  The Jew-haters here will have a circle-jerk over it of course, but it's not like they pay for his Disneyland tix...

 

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

It's kind of surprising that Erdogan's govt can take the time out from its never-ending opposition witch-hunt to start pasting up stupid pronouncements like this. 

No its not.

Turkey, a NATO member, has 99.8% of the population that identifies as Muslim. Erdogan's position is consistent with all other Muslim nations in the Middle East, including US allies.

Turkey is sponsoring Organization of Islamic Cooperation, a group of more than 50 Muslim nations. It would be negligent for Erdogan not to make this announcement.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, smotherb said:

well , the West Jerusalem should be the Christian capital

 

The Christian capital of which Christian country?

[Morch]

10 hours ago, crankshaft said:

No one cares what Turkey thinks....

 

 

That's one way of dealing with things. But in reality, Turkey does have an international and regional importance, meaning its positions and views are not entirely ignored. Disliking said positions or Erdogan himself got nothing to do with it.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, pegman said:

Seems fair enough, get'er done E.U.! 

 

8 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Either both claims should be recognised or neither claim recognised. simple

 

Even if this was to happen - what would it mean in real terms? Considering Trump's announcement was basically hot air, which did little other than aggravate things, how would pouring more gasoline on the flames help?

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

No its not.

Turkey, a NATO member, has 99.8% of the population that identifies as Muslim. Erdogan's position is consistent with all other Muslim nations in the Middle East, including US allies.

Turkey is sponsoring Organization of Islamic Cooperation, a group of more than 50 Muslim nations. It would be negligent for Erdogan not to make this announcement.

 

Statements can be issued in many tones and vary in content. Erdogan and his cronies often go for the confrontational and inflammatory. And it does serve as a convenient deflection and distraction from ongoing investigations possibly implicating  Erdgoan himself with Iran sanctions violations. One could easily imagine a less combative gathering under different circumstances. 

[dexterm]

OP...

"We must encourage other countries to recognise the Palestinian state on the basis of its 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital," Cavusoglu said.

 

Good move.

With Trump disqualifying the USA as a peace broker, the Palestinians have done what they should have done years ago...bypass USA and seek pressure from the rest of the world.

This peaceful move will add to the 136 out of 193 member states that have already recognized the State of Palestine. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

 

It will further isolate the USA and Israel, demonstrating how out of step they are with the rest of the world.

 

It will also add weight to Palestinians' prosecution of Israel in the ICC for their war crimes of illegal occupation in the West Bank and blockade of Gaza.

 

And it will make the eventual imposition of sanctions more likely if Israel annexes more land without giving Palestinians equal rights.

 

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The Christian capital of which Christian country?

Well, since the Christians occupied what is called Palestine before the Muslims, why not call it Christiana? If you are worried about just creating a country; how do you think the state of Palestine, created in 1988, and the state of Israel, created in 1948, got to be?

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, dexterm said:

OP...

"We must encourage other countries to recognise the Palestinian state on the basis of its 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital," Cavusoglu said.

 

Good move.

With Trump disqualifying the USA as a peace broker, the Palestinians have done what they should have done years ago...bypass USA and seek pressure from the rest of the world.

This peaceful move will add to the 136 out of 193 member states that have already recognized the State of Palestine. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

 

It will further isolate the USA and Israel, demonstrating how out of step they are with the rest of the world.

 

It will also add weight to Palestinians' prosecution of Israel in the ICC for their war crimes of illegal occupation in the West Bank and blockade of Gaza.

 

And it will make the eventual imposition of sanctions more likely if Israel annexes more land without giving Palestinians equal rights.

 

 

A "good move" how? Most countries have already recognized the Palestinians in various levels and ways. A few more joining the list will not change how things are.

 

Such a recognition will also imply a Palestinian acceptance of the 1967 lines, which despite your misrepresentations is not quite a general consensus among Palestinians. There are good reasons for the Palestinians' reluctance to actually go forth with such formulations, as they do come with concessions which the are hard for the Palestinians to digest or agree upon.

 

What the OP is about, at least nominally, is applying diplomatic pressure and searching for an alternate mediator. The point of view pushed in the post above focuses solely on the former. Is the main goal scoring diplomatic points,  "isolating the US and Israel" , "prosecuting Israel in the ICC", "imposing sanctions" or actually addressing the Palestinian national aspirations? Seems that the priorities are muddled for some claimed "supporters".

 

[Morch]

Just now, smotherb said:

Well, since the Christians occupied what is called Palestine before the Muslims, why not call it Christiana? If you are worried about just creating a country; how do you think the state of Palestine, created in 1988, and the state of Israel, created in 1948, got to be?

 

How about calling it Nonsenseia?

[smotherb]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How about calling it Nonsenseia?

Nonsenseia, I think that may be a good name for any religion-based entity; or maybe Ridiculosa would be a better name. However, if you are going to divide Jerusalem, you ought not leave out the Christians--remember, the old division of Jerusalem into quarters--Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Armenian. So, how about the creation of Armeniana too?

[Srikcir]

33 minutes ago, dexterm said:

add weight to Palestinians' prosecution of Israel in the ICC

 

US and Israel do not recognize the ICC

34 minutes ago, dexterm said:

make the eventual imposition of sanctions more likely if Israel annexes more land without giving Palestinians equal rights.

Won't be UN sanctions with the US veto.

Most Islamic States aren't going to take individual sanctions against the US as they may rely on it for their security, banking, investments, trade, weapons, etc. But where they can disassociate themselves from the US, further support Palestine and collude with US adversaries with an anti-US agenda. Great for American security (not).

 

[dexterm]

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

A "good move" how? Most countries have already recognized the Palestinians in various levels and ways. A few more joining the list will not change how things are.

 

Such a recognition will also imply a Palestinian acceptance of the 1967 lines, which despite your misrepresentations is not quite a general consensus among Palestinians. There are good reasons for the Palestinians' reluctance to actually go forth with such formulations, as they do come with concessions which the are hard for the Palestinians to digest or agree upon.

 

What the OP is about, at least nominally, is applying diplomatic pressure and searching for an alternate mediator. The point of view pushed in the post above focuses solely on the former. Is the main goal scoring diplomatic points,  "isolating the US and Israel" , "prosecuting Israel in the ICC", "imposing sanctions" or actually addressing the Palestinian national aspirations? Seems that the priorities are muddled for some claimed "supporters".

 

The usual obfuscation. Although these days your tactics seem to be outright denial of facts.

 

Palestinians have recognized the 1967 borders as the basis of peace negotiations for decades

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/1.813524

 

You clearly would prefer the Palestinians roll over and do nothing at all.

 

 

 

 

[dexterm]

35 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

 

US and Israel do not recognize the ICC

Won't be UN sanctions with the US veto.

Most Islamic States aren't going to take individual sanctions against the US as they may rely on it for their security, banking, investments, trade, weapons, etc. But where they can disassociate themselves from the US, further support Palestine and collude with US adversaries with an anti-US agenda. Great for American security (not).

 

>>US and Israel do not recognize the ICC

I wonder why? But 123 other countries did ratify it.

 

You don't need the UN to be able to impose sanctions.

The EU, Israel's largest trading partner,  could bring Israel to its knees tomorrow.

 

Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. I recall another apartheid regime that eventually came tumbling down. And it all started with a boycott in an Irish supermarket.

Edited December 14, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

55 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Nonsenseia, I think that may be a good name for any religion-based entity; or maybe Ridiculosa would be a better name. However, if you are going to divide Jerusalem, you ought not leave out the Christians--remember, the old division of Jerusalem into quarters--Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Armenian. So, how about the creation of Armeniana too?

 

Jerusalem is not about to be divided between religions, but along national lines.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The usual obfuscation. Although these days your tactics seem to be outright denial of facts.

 

Palestinians have recognized the 1967 borders as the basis of peace negotiations for decades

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/1.813524

 

You clearly would prefer the Palestinians roll over and do nothing at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Obfuscation how? You do not even coherent reply to the post made. Nothing explained as to how the  OP represents a "good move", nothing which explains what will actually be gained - other than scoring diplomatic points and various modes in which Israel and the USA will be bashed. There is nothing in either of your posts which indicates a program leading to the fulfillment of Palestinian national aspirations.

 

As for your standing deflection - Abbas's term in office ended years ago. Last elections were 2005.  Does he have the support of all or even most Palestinians? Does the Hamas subscribe to everything that Abbas claims to stand for?  I'm not the one ignoring the facts, and it's pretty clear who's the one trying to hide them.

 

As said, Abbas makes statements about this and that. When push comes to shove, he hesitates, delays and nothing comes out of it. Pretty much like his Israeli counterparts. Painting him as bold and decisive voice for peace is laughable.

 

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>US and Israel do not recognize the ICC

I wonder why? But 123 other countries did ratify it.

 

You don't need the UN to be able to impose sanctions.

The EU, Israel's largest trading partner,  could bring Israel to its knees tomorrow.

 

Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. I recall another apartheid regime that eventually came tumbling down. And it all started with a boycott in an Irish supermarket.

 

Russia and the PRC do not recognize it as well...regardless of your trying to make it about Israel and the USA.

 

The EU does not support your extreme views, and does not share your hatred. And despite your wishful thinking, the prospects of Israel being brought to its knees on the force of (non-existent) EU sanctions is way out there. You can run that Apartheid canard all you like, little of substance on offer - but even if it did apply (and it doesn't), may want to look into the actual effect of them sanctions, which was less than advertised. The topic, though is not about that.

 

 

[dexterm]

52 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Russia and the PRC do not recognize it as well...regardless of your trying to make it about Israel and the USA.

 

The EU does not support your extreme views, and does not share your hatred. And despite your wishful thinking, the prospects of Israel being brought to its knees on the force of (non-existent) EU sanctions is way out there. You can run that Apartheid canard all you like, little of substance on offer - but even if it did apply (and it doesn't), may want to look into the actual effect of them sanctions, which was less than advertised. The topic, though is not about that.

 

 

>>Russia and the PRC do not recognize it as well...regardless of your trying to make it about Israel and the USA.
...precisely. That does not lend legitimacy to USA and Israel's boycott of the ICC, just the opposite...they too have a lot to hide.

 

>>The EU does not support your extreme views
.... My views are not extreme. Europeans are well aware of Israel's illegal occupation. The EU already insists on separate labelling of goods from illegal West  Bank colonies.

 

The more countries that recognize Palestine as a state the better. We have come a long way from Golda Meir's:  "There were no such thing as Palestinians." The Palestinian flag now flies outside the UN building.

 

Small increments, but peaceful progress.

 

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." (Martin Luther King, Jr)

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by dexterm