Thailand to declare war on plastic bags - by charging for them

[Road Warrior]

why not adopt the u.s.a way  - large brown paper bays that disintegrate  ?????

[spidermike007]

A change in consciousness must start at the most basic level. Most Thais think plastic is the best thing ever invented, and the percentage of Thais that even consider the negative ramifications of plastic is incredibly small. This requires some education. I always do two things to avoid the consumption of plastic.

 

1. I bring re-usable bags with me every time I go shopping. I use the larger shopping bags I buy in the US, which are made of recycled materials. Most of the clerks have to be dealt with. Even when they see my bag, they still start putting the stuff in plastic. I always mai sai toom. No plastic! Then they start loading up my bag. Most look at me like I am from Mars. Do I care? Not one iota. About 1% thank me, and get it. Not many do. My Thai wife does not like bringing the bags to the store. I force her to. By now, she expects it, and sometimes even asks if I have any bags in the car, or on the motorbike. Same with the water bottles. It used to embarrass her. Now, it is second nature, as I have been doing this for so long, she expects it. So, if a Thai can be conditioned to follow these simple principals, then anyone can. 

 

2. I bring a bottle of water with me, every time I go to a restaurant. I refill my plastic bottles from the 20 liter bottles at home. It is easy. I never buy bottled water at a restaurant. This saves 300-600 bottles a year. I use a plastic bottle dozens of times. I never get any flack from the restaurants. Only once did someone say something to me. She said you cannot bring you own water. My response was if you serve the water in a glass bottle, and I do not have to consume a plastic bottle, I am happy to pay for that. She was lost. I told her to leave and get me my food. She went away. 

 

We simply cannot say we are concerned about the environment, and then do nothing about it. Action demonstrates commitment. Lack of action demonstrates nothing. 

 

Lastly, restaurants can demonstrate their commitment, by serving drinking water from the 20 liter bottles. It saves alot of plastic. They lose a small amount of revenue, by not selling thousands of bottles of water. But, their operation is still profitable, and they are making a real difference. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by spidermike007

[djayz]

3 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

his idea is not a new one.. China's grocery stores make you pay per plastic bag. yet it doesn't hinder them from buying more. i have yet to see them whip out a bag to put there food in. 

although it sounds like a good idea. i doubt it will deter the Thais.  it will just add 5 baht to their overall bill..  

My point precisely! Hence the suggested ฿10 or ฿15 per bag fine. 

[jsgatse]

I bring my own reusable bags to my grocery store...been doing so for about 3 years now, about 3 times a week.  So, let's say around 150 times since this practice started.  Still, each and every time, the staff looks at me like I am from outer space...  I can't tell if they think it's a great idea, or a crazy idea...or just an idea.

[Happyman58]

3 hours ago, Mike555 said:

They brought in a similar thing a few years back when I was living in Makati in Manila. They actually didn't even have a pay-for-plastic option, I don't think. I was just no more plastic bags. Everything had to be paper...and they charged for those I think. Almost nothing, but a bit. Very glad to hear that Thailand is at least going to make an effort to deal with the issue. Would love to see the plastic straws and cutlery get replaced with bio-degradable alternatives as well. Same with plastics...my trash bags are all bio-degradable. The technology exists to make this happen; just requires political will. 

Glad you said effort mike  It wont be much of am effort but at least they talked about it Now that was an effort by the Thai government to start talking about it I am sure all who attended  the meeting will be handsomely reimbursed accordingly  At the meeting would of been 6 Generals 2, Colonels, 2 captains, and 1 civilian and 2 police officers   

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, lvr181 said:

And the serious limitations are?

They don't filter most chemicals and require constant maintenance.. Most people in Thailand have water delivered in 20 litre bottles. When you see people buying lots of bottles it is for party or restaurant.

 

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

A change in consciousness must start at the most basic level. Most Thais think plastic is the best thing ever invented, and the percentage of Thais that even consider the negative ramifications of plastic is incredibly small. This requires some education. I always do two things to avoid the consumption of plastic.

 

1. I bring re-usable bags with me every time I go shopping. I use the larger shopping bags I buy in the US, which are made of recycled materials. Most of the clerks have to be dealt with. Even when they see my bag, they still start putting the stuff in plastic. I always mai sai toom. No plastic! Then they start loading up my bag. Most look at me like I am from Mars. Do I care? Not one iota. About 1% thank me, and get it. Not many do. My Thai wife does not like bringing the bags to the store. I force her to. By now, she expects it, and sometimes even asks if I have any bags in the car, or on the motorbike. Same with the water bottles. It used to embarrass her. Now, it is second nature, as I have been doing this for so long, she expects it. So, if a Thai can be conditioned to follow these simple principals, then anyone can. 

 

2. I bring a bottle of water with me, every time I go to a restaurant. I refill my plastic bottles from the 20 liter bottles at home. It is easy. I never buy bottled water at a restaurant. This saves 300-600 bottles a year. I use a plastic bottle dozens of times. I never get any flack from the restaurants. Only once did someone say something to me. She said you cannot bring you own water. My response was if you serve the water in a glass bottle, and I do not have to consume a plastic bottle, I am happy to pay for that. She was lost. I told her to leave and get me my food. She went away. 

 

We simply cannot say we are concerned about the environment, and then do nothing about it. Action demonstrates commitment. Lack of action demonstrates nothing. 

 

Lastly, restaurants can demonstrate their commitment, by serving drinking water from the 20 liter bottles. It saves alot of plastic. They lose a small amount of revenue, by not selling thousands of bottles of water. But, their operation is still profitable, and they are making a real difference. 

Most restaurants do serve water from 20 ltr bottles, that's the free water in jugs or samovars....people pay extra for bottled water

Edited December 18, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

Just now, Airbagwill said:

Most restaurants do serve water from 20 ltr bottles, that's the free water in jugs or samovars on the table....people pay extra for bottled water

Making people pay in Thailand won't work.

It may seem a small amount to a westerners but 5 to 15 baht on a 40 baht meal is not practical.

You need the will of the people  behind it.

In the UK schemes for replacing plastic bags had been introduced and failed for over 20 years  before they were accepted

Just fining users is by its very definition punitive, a change needs to be sympathetic and encouraged, not forced. Something quite alien to this government who prefer to rule by dictum not rationale

[mitos]

At last time. Yet for many years in Thailand I waering with myself used cotton bag. Both on market for only 10 B.

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, mitos said:

At last time. Yet for many years in Thailand I waering with myself used cotton bag. Both on market for only 10 B.

Won't hold my noodle stock, will it?

[spidermike007]

28 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Most restaurants do serve water from 20 ltr bottles, that's the free water in jugs or samovars....people pay extra for bottled water

Not true. Only the most basic restaurants do that, who serve mostly low income Thai customers that cannot afford the cost of water, or are unwilling to pay the extra 20 baht. The vast majority of restaurants I eat in do not offer that option. Probably 95% of those I frequent. I would welcome that option. 

[spidermike007]

24 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Making people pay in Thailand won't work.

It may seem a small amount to a westerners but 5 to 15 baht on a 40 baht meal is not practical.

You need the will of the people  behind it.

In the UK schemes for replacing plastic bags had been introduced and failed for over 20 years  before they were accepted

Just fining users is by its very definition punitive, a change needs to be sympathetic and encouraged, not forced. Something quite alien to this government who prefer to rule by dictum not rationale

 

Offering some education about the evils of plastic, and raising the awareness and consciousness of the public on this issue, is the key. In the US now a very high percentage of the people I know will not use plastic bags, and if they do, they re-use them many times. Thais have little understanding of what happens to the plastic, and the enormous environmental, and marine degradation they cause. 

[Airbagwill]

17 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Not true. Only the most basic restaurants do that, who serve mostly low income Thai customers that cannot afford the cost of water, or are unwilling to pay the extra 20 baht. The vast majority of restaurants I eat in do not offer that option. Probably 95% of those I frequent. I would welcome that option. 

But you obviously don't eat at the majority of Thai restaurants.  Only a small percentage are your kind. The only time I eat in places like that are in resort towns like Pattaya. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Airbagwill

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:28 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

It is about bloody time that this idea gets discussed and (hopefully!) implemented in Thailand; the sheer number of plastic bags in this country is both shocking and disgusting.

 

I am a figure of awe when I go to my local market, buy my stuff, then whip a used plastic bag out of my pocket for my purchase.

 

"GASP!" "Look at that!" "Wah!" "I didn't know you could do that!" "Double Wah!"

 

Make it five baht a bag, and watch the use of plastic bags plummet. Please.

 

20 baht a bag more like. 

 

It works back home. People just get used to taking a bag with them to go to supermarket.

 

17 pages in one day! is that a record?

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Making people pay in Thailand won't work.

It may seem a small amount to a westerners but 5 to 15 baht on a 40 baht meal is not practical.

You need the will of the people  behind it.

In the UK schemes for replacing plastic bags had been introduced and failed for over 20 years  before they were accepted

Just fining users is by its very definition punitive, a change needs to be sympathetic and encouraged, not forced. Something quite alien to this government who prefer to rule by dictum not rationale

LOL. By that definition there should be no traffic fines.

Using a new plastic bag every time is indeed a crime on the environment and punishment is the only way to stop the culture of a new bag for everything.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:07 AM, quadperfect said:

How about just putting a few trash cans around thailand. There are so few available.

That is obviouse.

The thai people get there food off the street in plastic. So good luck with that, you thought they complained about pick ups for transport and helmet laws. Just try to charge a thai each time he buys food.

 

get there food off the street in plastic

Biodegradable alternatives exist. It's probably something that requires legislation to make happen though, as I'm sure the plastics lobby is working hard to continue pollution by plastic.

[Airbagwill]

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. By that definition there should be no traffic fines.

Using a new plastic bag every time is indeed a crime on the environment and punishment is the only way to stop the culture of a new bag for everything.

A facile comment. No matter how damaging they are, it is not yet a crime....I think fascism is a markedly unproductive approach.

Few people remember the keep Britain tidy campaign and how that totally changed public opinion on litter.

If you change the peolmes5 attitude then you can have appropriate legislation, but draconian laws or dictums are the tools of despots and dictators and destined not to work

Edited December 18, 2017 by Airbagwill

[pieeyed]

Seeing Thailand is supposed to be growing hemp? Why not ban plastic bags and go back to paper/hemp/degradable bags?

 

[Airbagwill]

9 minutes ago, pieeyed said:

Seeing Thailand is supposed to be growing hemp? Why not ban plastic bags and go back to paper/hemp/degradable bags?

 

Try taking your soup home in that

Edited December 18, 2017 by Airbagwill

[wayned]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How about just putting a few trash cans around thailand. There are so few available.

That won't work either!  I live near a small town that had blue plastic trash cans on every corner.  People would deposit their trash on or near them.  The local government then got the bright idea that they should charge for trash pickup and removed them.  They now have a truck that roams the neighbor hood areas on assigned days to pickup trash in customer supplied cans in front of houses, but they don't go everywhere.  So the locals just trow their trash on the side of the back road out of town.  They occasionally clean it up and burn it but what the new system has created is a local land fill on the side of the public road.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

The garbage problem is not Thailand's alone....economics dictate the use of plastics and even fully developed countries are failing to deal with the problem.

In many circumstances the use of plastics is not just unavoidable but a necessity.

Plastics exist forever and as yet no countries have come to terms on how to safely dispose of them.

Unfortunately they are now in the sea and every nook and cranny of the environment.....we are actually ingesting plastic ourselves as it has entered the food chain.

So blaming Thailand as if they are especially poor at this is missing the point.

 

I have never seen a Thai litter but the country is covered with garbage. Every drain hole is stuffed with drink bottles and every canal with trash.They know it is wrong but do it when nobody is looking. It is a face thing. Most don't care about trash and filth as long as their house, clothes and body are clean. Go to my country however,  people who know better sometimes drop trash where they know somebody is paid to clean it up (like inside a Walmart or airport),  however, in areas overrun by the permanent underclass, Newark NJ, Chicago,  etc. and you will see people littering in the street in broad daylight. A cultural difference.

 

I don't miss your point about toxics and plastic entering the environment and food chain but even if bags were completely banned Thais would still drop  food containers, drink bottles, wrappers, and take out packages everywhere.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[sambum]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

A change in consciousness must start at the most basic level. Most Thais think plastic is the best thing ever invented, and the percentage of Thais that even consider the negative ramifications of plastic is incredibly small. This requires some education. I always do two things to avoid the consumption of plastic.

 

1. I bring re-usable bags with me every time I go shopping. I use the larger shopping bags I buy in the US, which are made of recycled materials. Most of the clerks have to be dealt with. Even when they see my bag, they still start putting the stuff in plastic. I always mai sai toom. No plastic! Then they start loading up my bag. Most look at me like I am from Mars. Do I care? Not one iota. About 1% thank me, and get it. Not many do. My Thai wife does not like bringing the bags to the store. I force her to. By now, she expects it, and sometimes even asks if I have any bags in the car, or on the motorbike. Same with the water bottles. It used to embarrass her. Now, it is second nature, as I have been doing this for so long, she expects it. So, if a Thai can be conditioned to follow these simple principals, then anyone can. 

 

2. I bring a bottle of water with me, every time I go to a restaurant. I refill my plastic bottles from the 20 liter bottles at home. It is easy. I never buy bottled water at a restaurant. This saves 300-600 bottles a year. I use a plastic bottle dozens of times. I never get any flack from the restaurants. Only once did someone say something to me. She said you cannot bring you own water. My response was if you serve the water in a glass bottle, and I do not have to consume a plastic bottle, I am happy to pay for that. She was lost. I told her to leave and get me my food. She went away. 

 

We simply cannot say we are concerned about the environment, and then do nothing about it. Action demonstrates commitment. Lack of action demonstrates nothing. 

 

Lastly, restaurants can demonstrate their commitment, by serving drinking water from the 20 liter bottles. It saves alot of plastic. They lose a small amount of revenue, by not selling thousands of bottles of water. But, their operation is still profitable, and they are making a real difference. 

"They lose a small amount of revenue, by not selling thousands of bottles of water"

 When they charge 50 - 60 baht for a bottle of water that costs about 10 baht in a supermarket, it is not a small amount of revenue!

 

By the way, I have never been asked to consume a plastic bottle in a restaurant - usually the food on the menu is sufficient! 

Edited December 18, 2017 by sambum

[lvr181]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

They don't filter most chemicals and require constant maintenance.. Most people in Thailand have water delivered in 20 litre bottles. When you see people buying lots of bottles it is for party or restaurant.

 

"They don't filter most chemicals...." Reverse Osmosis systems do. But if you want "pure water" then buy or gather your own distilled water (gathered from steam) but you then need to supplement your diet with minerals that have been removed.

[sambum]

5 hours ago, wayned said:

That won't work either!  I live near a small town that had blue plastic trash cans on every corner.  People would deposit their trash on or near them.  The local government then got the bright idea that they should charge for trash pickup and removed them.  They now have a truck that roams the neighbor hood areas on assigned days to pickup trash in customer supplied cans in front of houses, but they don't go everywhere.  So the locals just trow their trash on the side of the back road out of town.  They occasionally clean it up and burn it but what the new system has created is a local land fill on the side of the public road.

The main problem is that if (mainly Thai) people can get away with not paying for trash removal, they will, and forget the damage to the environment, which is obvious by your comments above. 

In the small complex where we used to live, we payed an extra 50 baht a month which was factored into the rent to pay for the garbage collection. We also supplied the garbage bins. Worked a treat until the garbage bins disappeared, and the landlord refused to supply, or even help with the cost of acquiring new ones, so we had to find an alternative means of disposal e.g. outside the local 711. He also refused to reduce the rent by 50 baht even though the garbage was not being collected because there were no bins! Exit stage left! As stated previously, we used to live there!

[snoopy21]

I totally support what the Thai government trying to do. Just like Hong Kong, we get used to bring along with our own bag when shopping. If we asked for plastic bag, HKD0.5 for small one, and HKD1 for the large. But, I also believe educating the Thai people not to dispose trash improperly should be the first and foremost matter that the government should do in decreasing trash in the Kingdom.

[Airbagwill]

13 hours ago, lvr181 said:

"They don't filter most chemicals...." Reverse Osmosis systems do. But if you want "pure water" then buy or gather your own distilled water (gathered from steam) but you then need to supplement your diet with minerals that have been removed.

I don't think you are thinking through the practicalities and costs of what you are suggesting... A domestic filtration and now a reverse osmosis in every house?

 

[tigermoth]

There are biodegadable plastic bags available but the manufacturers of plastic bags do not make them  because they claim it costs more. So what!!! Make it law that they must produce only biodegradable bags. Weep,weep, our pofits will be reduced. I personally take a large shopping bag and the only things I get in plastic are meat, fish etc.

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

I don't think you are thinking through the practicalities and costs of what you are suggesting... A domestic filtration and now a reverse osmosis in every house?

 

I think you hve misread what I said. The RO system was in answer to your comment about "not removing all chemicals." I was not suggesting it as a practiable solution for all households, but for those who can afford such a system.

[DigiMax]

In South Australia  deposits have been on Bags & Bottles/Cans for years which tidied up the State in no time . It has a two bennefits, by people bringing their own bags to Supermarkets etc & returning  bottles to the recycling depot for a refund. Bags cost near 4 baht with bottle/can deposit at 2,5 baht equivalent. In tourist areas where public bins are provided, some people rummage throu bins for easy pickings.

In all it works, just go interstate & see the difference ?

[Katipo]

I refuse the small bags from 7/11s etc as they are rarely necessary for the few items in them. I sometimes accept the larger ones if I know I will reuse it to hold my running shoes or use in my rubbish bin. If I take a plastic bag, it's never for single use.