Trump says China 'Caught RED HANDED' allowing oil into North Korea

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, baboon said:

You really, really don't want to go there with the goodies v baddies argument

It's not the "goodies v. baddies" as you have characterized.

Good & bad are degrees of behavior found in any ideology. I didn't use such as an argument to distinguish between Russia, China and South Korea.

 

Communism and oligarchy share similar autocratic ideologies that directly conflict with a democratic populist ideology. That is why both have (in part at least) a shared interest in maintaining an ideological buffer between themselves and South Korea vis a vis North Korea. Otherwise there's too great a danger of democratic "bleed" into their respective nations.

[baboon]

6 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It's not the "goodies v. baddies" as you have characterized.

Good & bad are degrees of behavior found in any ideology. I didn't use such as an argument to distinguish between Russia, China and South Korea.

 

Communism and oligarchy share similar autocratic ideologies that directly conflict with a democratic populist ideology. That is why both have (in part at least) a shared interest in maintaining an ideological buffer between themselves and South Korea vis a vis North Korea. Otherwise there's too great a danger of democratic "bleed" into their respective nations.

With respect, it does become goodies v baddies when one starts bandying pejorative terms like "Communist Russia vs Democratic USA" about.

[midas]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

I did mean that if North Korean doesnt threaten the USA , then the US would have no reason to attack NK .

  (Although I can understand the misunderstanding, from what I wrote)

LOL  and if USA didn't threaten North Korea with perpetual war games in the back garden I'm sure things will be a lot calmer also

 

 

[sanemax]

28 minutes ago, midas said:

LOL  and if USA didn't threaten North Korea with perpetual war games in the back garden I'm sure things will be a lot calmer also

 

 

No, the USA sending their navy to off the Korean coast is a direct result of Korea firing missiles and developing Nuclear weapons .

[riclag]

What a mess PT inherited . Come on China and Russia ! How much will it cost my country for you to adhere to the UN sanctions ?  You have been fake supporting America from the beginning on the sanctions.

[Grouse]

The USA is the world's only super power.

 

It also considers itself the world's policeman ( or olive man as iPhone autocorrect would have it)

 

Is it too much to expect some sort of responsibility? Look, I know the USA has rescued everyone, single handedly, on many occasions. I suppose it is difficult to be singlehandedly even handed?

 

The USA is actually selfish and amoral in my opinion. Nothing will be done with NK unless America itself is at risk (their colonies can go hang). Their allies don't count either.

 

So, I reiterate Delta Tango, SOGOP.

 

Either display some moral fortitude and bring Rocket Man to heel or bugger off and let the Russians and Chinese deal with it.

 

Stay home and cuddle up to your Saudi and Israeli pals.

[212Roger]

On 12/29/2017 at 9:12 PM, Grouse said:

I think you will find the overarching concern is to avoid troop casualties these days. Drones are the thing

 

But my point is this, if you're going to threaten, then follow through. I don't think the Americans have the balls; the Japanese would 

The Japanese are afraid of nuclear bombs...

[smotherb]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

Amuse me; examples?

Examples? Well, you are still communicating in English aren't you?

[Scott]

Off-topic troll posts and replies removed.  

[mrwebb8825]

Perhaps this is the main fear for both China and Russia:

"Putin sends troops to Russia's border with North Korea after China also sends soldiers to its boundary over fears Trump will attack Kim Jong-un, sparking a tidal wave of refugees

The Russian President has sent troops and equipment to his North Korea border

Footage shows trains carrying tanks to 11-mile frontier in Russia's south east

Comes after China sent 150,000 troops to its own frontier with North Korea

There are fears of a mass exodus of North Korean refugees if war breaks out"

Now, if all northern border crossings were to be destroyed by their respective owners by these same troops to prevent this mass exodus it might give the little fat man pause knowing he's sentencing himself and his people to death by continuing. It would also make China and Russia less concerned about mass amounts of refugees. Roads and bridges can be rebuilt much cheaper and easier than rounding up and deporting a million runners.

[JHolmesJr]

gosh, isn't it common knowledge that n korea is just a proxy for the chines and russians to keep sticking a thorn in the US side (while C&R act all concerned and goody two shoes about it).

 

Good on trump for calling it out.

[Grouse]

50 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

gosh, isn't it common knowledge that n korea is just a proxy for the chines and russians to keep sticking a thorn in the US side (while C&R act all concerned and goody two shoes about it).

 

Good on trump for calling it out.

The Americans invited the USSR into Korea at the end of the war in the Pacific. The Soviets and Americans agreed to partition a country that had been a contiguous state for about 1,000 years. There would be a communist North and an Americanised South. Just as in Vietnam, the overriding wish of all Koreans was to reunite their country. Is this really beyond the wit of man? 

 

How about the UN negotiating a United Korea with a guarantee of no Chinese or American troops. Anywhere. The Americans can retreat to their Guam colony (they're unwanted in Japan). No nuclear weapons, peace guaranteed by UN?

 

Bad for American Industrial Military machine, good for everyone else ....

[Monomial]

One interesting strategic ploy which may come out of all of this. If you were Trump and looking to introduce targeted sanctions against China for economic reasons, how would you go about it? Something like this could have serious ramifications on the economy as well as on how America is viewed in its trade deals around the world.

 

Consider however, that if you could be seen as justified and morally correct when doing this, then you may even be able to get your citizens to accept a little hardship to make this happen. Many people think Trump is just an idiot, and he certainly panders to that crowd. But he is also known to be a ruthless businessman who is not above using deception to gain an advantage.

 

Seems to me there is a possibility he may have engineered this situation to get a way to accuse China of something that would allow the US to respond in kind. The issue may never really have been North Korea at all, but instead simply a trap to catch China. And if China didn't do something wrong, the US could always fabricate data to say they did anyway.

 

Trump is very aware China is the main competitor. He built his campaign around it, and honestly believes he can beat them. While he is both a psychopath and a demagogue, he is not stupid, and it is a mistake to treat him like an idiot.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out going forward.

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts recapping the history of WW1 and WW2 have been removed as well as the replies.  A post containing a derogatory slang comment toward Americans was removed as well:

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[mrwebb8825]

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

peace guaranteed by UN?

You had something there right up until this last bit. 

[mrwebb8825]

22 hours ago, Monomial said:

One interesting strategic ploy which may come out of all of this. If you were Trump and looking to introduce targeted sanctions against China for economic reasons, how would you go about it? Something like this could have serious ramifications on the economy as well as on how America is viewed in its trade deals around the world.

 

Consider however, that if you could be seen as justified and morally correct when doing this, then you may even be able to get your citizens to accept a little hardship to make this happen. Many people think Trump is just an idiot, and he certainly panders to that crowd. But he is also known to be a ruthless businessman who is not above using deception to gain an advantage.

 

Seems to me there is a possibility he may have engineered this situation to get a way to accuse China of something that would allow the US to respond in kind. The issue may never really have been North Korea at all, but instead simply a trap to catch China. And if China didn't do something wrong, the US could always fabricate data to say they did anyway.

 

Trump is very aware China is the main competitor. He built his campaign around it, and honestly believes he can beat them. While he is both a psychopath and a demagogue, he is not stupid, and it is a mistake to treat him like an idiot.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out going forward.

 

Wish there was a way to give you a "selective like". While I dislike your slighting remarks about President Trump, I do like your assessment of his prowess.

 

Wouldn't it be a hoot if the real meetings between the campaign and Russia going back 2 years were never found until the collapse of China? Then being revealed that Russia had been helping to bring all this about, working in full cooperation with US Intelligence Agencies, knowing that Obama was on his way out and it being so easy to discredit HC.

All the time playing the DNC game against them by feeding the so called special counselor Muller red herring after red herring from incredibly obvious email trails.

The new sanctions against Russia and the obvious responses by Russia, having no real impact but fed the MSM who took it and ran like they found something real.

[VocalNeal]

Trump should read up on his recent history. What happened the last time his country backed another Asian country into a corner with sanctions and the like...

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Wish there was a way to give you a "selective like". While I dislike your slighting remarks about President Trump, I do like your assessment of his prowess.

 

Wouldn't it be a hoot if the real meetings between the campaign and Russia going back 2 years were never found until the collapse of China? Then being revealed that Russia had been helping to bring all this about, working in full cooperation with US Intelligence Agencies, knowing that Obama was on his way out and it being so easy to discredit HC.

All the time playing the DNC game against them by feeding the so called special counselor Muller red herring after red herring from incredibly obvious email trails.

The new sanctions against Russia and the obvious responses by Russia, having no real impact but fed the MSM who took it and ran like they found something real.

'Considering what would happen to the American economy if sanctions powerful enough to make China collapse were imposed, the Trump administration would be long gone before said Chinese collapse.

Anyway, the scenario you posit sounds like something viewed in a right wing wet dream.