Relative Costs Thailand vs US

[GinBoy2]

Now, I don't care whatever the zealots think, I'm just posting this for informational purposes only, so troll away I'll ignore you!

It came up in another group that I posted in, and thought it may be useful. It was sorta prompted after reading Mobi's blog following his reprapriation to the UK

Basically a comparison of living costs

My PEA monthly bill was ฿5000 ~ $152
My Montana/Dakota Gas + Black Hills Utility bill is $64+$111
Gas costs $2.04/gal, thats what I paid this morning, which is roughly the same, or a little cheaper than Thailand
Internet, TOT Fiber 200M ฿1200 ~$36
Midco 1Gig, $63
I own my house, so thats a sunk cost, I pay $2400 annual property tax
BUPA Thailand I paid ฿65000 ~$2000
Obamacare I have a zero monthly premium after tax credit with $35 doctor office co-pays
Car insurance, ฿17000 for a Ford Ranger, ~$515
Car insurance $630 for a Ford Escape

Restaurants, well thats pretty subjective. If we're talking Thai street food, well nothing comes close to that. Mall Food, or Bangkok restaurants, thats pretty close.
I used to shop almost exclusively at Tops, and if I compare that to shopping at Safeway for similar products, pretty damm similar.

On housing, I sold one of my condo's in Noble Remix for ฿6.5M which I was renting out for ฿32000/month. I turned around and bought a condo here for $105K which I rent out for $890/month. You do the math

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Property tax and maintenance fees on U.S. condo?

[GinBoy2]

On the condo at Noble Remix I paid a common area fee of ฿27000/year, ~$818. On my condo here I pay property tax of $1750 +$800 annual HOA

Edited December 31, 2017 by GinBoy2

[55Jay]

How about annual home insurance premium.  Is that required in Montana?

[simoh1490]

Income tax on rental income in US?

 

On other points, by contrast:

 

Our monthly PEA bill averages THB 1,100 throughout the year, that's for a two bed/2 bath house containing 4 aircon plus the usual array of appliances - ithe house is however  energy efficient.

 

We also shop at TOPS but only for about 10% of the things we need, the remainder is done at local markets where the quality is higher and the costs are often one third cheaper.

 

Our water bill for two people is typically 90 baht a month.

 

Our contents/ liability insurance costs 5,500 per year.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

How about annual home insurance premium.  Is that required in Montana?

This is America, very little is actually ever required. But that being said, my HOA fee covers the ‘walls out’ insurance then I have additional insurance for internal contents, a $150K policy costs me $250/year

 

To add to another comment regarding water.

 

In Thailand my monthly water ran about ฿200-250/month.

Here I pay $40/month unlimited

[55Jay]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is America, very little is actually ever required. But that being said, my HOA fee covers the ‘walls out’ insurance then I have additional insurance for internal contents, a $150K policy costs me $250/year

 

To add to another comment regarding water.

 

In Thailand my monthly water ran about ฿200-250/month.

Here I pay $40/month unlimited

Wow, ok, that's not bad.  My only reference is Krazy Kalifornia, which is why I asked.  Nice post, thanks.

[GinBoy2]

4 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Wow, ok, that's not bad.  My only reference is Krazy Kalifornia, which is why I asked.  Nice post, thanks.

I had no agenda, I’d made my decision and move,  but I thought it would be useful for folks to actually see some real numbers

[JLCrab]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I had no agenda <snip>

Troll Post #1: Whenever someone feels the need to say that they don't have an agenda, that means that they have an agenda.

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Troll Post #1: Whenever someone feels the need to say that they don't have an agenda, that means that they have an agenda.

I'm beginning to agree and it looks like that agenda might be pro-USA, anti-Thailand.

[GinBoy2]

Believe what you want. Sometimes I feel regardless of what you say on TVF, people just need to think the worst,
Sad lives you must lead if all you always need to think the worst

Edited January 1, 2018 by GinBoy2

[simoh1490]

15 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Believe what you want. Sometimes I feel regardless of what you say on TVF, people just need to think the worst,
Sad lives you must lead if all you always need to think the worst
 

There have been numerous threads over the years on TVF showing cost comparisons between a home country and Thailand, the answer is very similar to the often asked question, how much does it cost to live here - the answer is, how long is a piece of string! Different locations, different lifestyles both in the home country and within Thailand make precise comparisons very difficult to achieve, even approximate comparisons are unreliable. Age, personal preference, location within each country, lifestyle preferences, health status, family age and size and more, all make the task almost impossible. We live in a semi-rural setting just North of Chiang Mai and our living costs are quite low, as a retired person they are almost certainly lower than a 20 something who is renting and partying a lot. Contrast that with ten years ago when we lived in Phuket where our living costs were 250% greater than they are today.

Similarly, the cost of living in Palo Alto is quite different from that in Detroit, as is the cost to live in London versus the industrial North.

 

So when somebody comes along with some sample living costs that show it's cheaper to live in the USA than it is in Thailand, it's understandable that some posters get suspicious - that's either an incomplete cost comparison that is based on naivety or it's a purposeful attempt to make a case that one location is more expensive than the other, which is yours!

[GinBoy2]

I give up, you guys kill me!

[Ahab]

We are renting while our house is being built in Buriram.

PEA bill about 2000 baht~$60 per month (2 aircons running), in Hawaii (no aircons) our electricity bill was never below $210 USD (6930 baht).

Rent in a fairly modern 3 bedroom house in rural Thailand 5000 baht per month (~$149), rent in Hawaii was $2500 per month (~82,0000 baht).

A bottle of Buffalo Trace bourbon costs about $27 in Hawaii ( 900 baht), here at Tops in Buriram it costs about 1600 baht ($48 USD, and the bottle is smaller).

A bottle of drinkable red wine in Hawaii can be bought for about 8-10 USD (264-330 baht), here in Thailand the cost of a similar quality bottle of wine is roughly double.

Fresh fruits and vegetables bought at the local fresh markets are a small fraction of their cost in Hawaii.

Boneless chicken breasts in TESCO the other day were 74 baht a kg ($2.27 for 2.2 lbs.), in Hawaii 2.2 lbs. of chicken breasts would cost around 505 baht ($6.99 per lb.), or more.

A good steak in Hawaii could be bought for $15-20 USD per lb. (NY Strip, or ribeye), I saw a similar quality bone in ribeye steak here in Thailand (Passion Delivery), but the cost was $60 USD for a 1 lb. steak.

We could buy a frozen turkey in Hawaii for less than $7 USD (up to 14 lbs.), I saw a frozen Norbest turkey in Foodland in Pattaya for 4100 baht (~$124 USD). We ate roast chickens for Thanksgiving this year

 

Hawaii is a pretty extreme example of the costs differences, but it is where we lived for 25 years before moving to Thailand.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

We are renting while our house is being built in Buriram.

PEA bill about 2000 baht~$60 per month (2 aircons running), in Hawaii (no aircons) our electricity bill was never below $210 USD (6930 baht).

Rent in a fairly modern 3 bedroom house in rural Thailand 5000 baht per month (~$149), rent in Hawaii was $2500 per month (~82,0000 baht).

A bottle of Buffalo Trace bourbon costs about $27 in Hawaii ( 900 baht), here at Tops in Buriram it costs about 1600 baht ($48 USD, and the bottle is smaller).

A bottle of drinkable red wine in Hawaii can be bought for about 8-10 USD (264-330 baht), here in Thailand the cost of a similar quality bottle of wine is roughly double.

Fresh fruits and vegetables bought at the local fresh markets are a small fraction of their cost in Hawaii.

Boneless chicken breasts in TESCO the other day were 74 baht a kg ($2.27 for 2.2 lbs.), in Hawaii 2.2 lbs. of chicken breasts would cost around 505 baht ($6.99 per lb.), or more.

A good steak in Hawaii could be bought for $15-20 USD per lb. (NY Strip, or ribeye), I saw a similar quality bone in ribeye steak here in Thailand (Passion Delivery), but the cost was $60 USD for a 1 lb. steak.

We could buy a frozen turkey in Hawaii for less than $7 USD (up to 14 lbs.), I saw a frozen Norbest turkey in Foodland in Pattaya for 4100 baht (~$124 USD). We ate roast chickens for Thanksgiving this year

 

Hawaii is a pretty extreme example of the costs differences, but it is where we lived for 25 years before moving to Thailand.

There are some items that are just not reasonable to compare because they are not native to Thailand, imported and/or heavily taxed, motor vehicle imported foodstuff and liquor are three such items.  If you want to make a reasonable comparison, perhaps compare pork, chicken and native beef, vegetables, electricity bills, gasoline prices, milk etc.

[Ahab]

8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

There have been numerous threads over the years on TVF showing cost comparisons between a home country and Thailand, the answer is very similar to the often asked question, how much does it cost to live here - the answer is, how long is a piece of string! Different locations, different lifestyles both in the home country and within Thailand make precise comparisons very difficult to achieve, even approximate comparisons are unreliable. Age, personal preference, location within each country, lifestyle preferences, health status, family age and size and more, all make the task almost impossible. We live in a semi-rural setting just North of Chiang Mai and our living costs are quite low, as a retired person they are almost certainly lower than a 20 something who is renting and partying a lot. Contrast that with ten years ago when we lived in Phuket where our living costs were 250% greater than they are today.

Similarly, the cost of living in Palo Alto is quite different from that in Detroit, as is the cost to live in London versus the industrial North.

 

So when somebody comes along with some sample living costs that show it's cheaper to live in the USA than it is in Thailand, it's understandable that some posters get suspicious - that's either an incomplete cost comparison that is based on naivety or it's a purposeful attempt to make a case that one location is more expensive than the other, which is yours!

There are places in the USA where the costs of living are reasonable, for some stuff. But try doing a comparison of what it costs to get a floor retiled, or some metal fencing welded/fabricated, or anything that involves manual labor. We live in rural Thailand on less than what we paid for rent in Hawaii, and we are still able to put about 35000 baht away in the bank on most months. So yes, it is just a bit cheaper to live here.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

There are places in the USA where the costs of living are reasonable, for some stuff. But try doing a comparison of what it costs to get a floor retiled, or some metal fencing welded/fabricated, or anything that involves manual labor. We live in rural Thailand on less than what we paid for rent in Hawaii, and we are still able to put about 35000 baht away in the bank on most months. So yes, it is just a bit cheaper to live here.

Yes, I agree, generally, labour costs are far cheaper. I'm a Brit so whilst my cost comparisons are against the UK, I've also lived in the US for over 20 years hence I have a good understanding of cost factors there. For me personally, living in Thailand and not being taxed on worldwide income makes for a significant cost advantage although even without that aspect, it's much cheaper for me to live in Thailand than the UK, mostly as a result of other taxes.

[55Jay]

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I had no agenda, I’d made my decision and move,  but I thought it would be useful for folks to actually see some real numbers

Haven't lived in the States since '98, so I do find these "real numbers" posts interesting and useful.

 

Never done a detailed comparison, but in broad strokes, my sense is I "save" money living in Thailand by not paying CA state taxes, slightly lower sales tax rate and lack of an additional municipal sales tax.  No property tax, compulsory home insurance and no HOA fees - my only ref point being my Mom's HOA = $225/month! 

 

In my case, Thailand works out better for housing, internet, car insurance/registration/tax, and like you said, local food procurement.  Soon as you hit the imports/Villa Market, etc., alcohol, costs start balancing out.  I self-insure with cash, so not sure about med insurance.  I save (avoid) other costs in boy toys, like a boat, quads/Jeeps, etc., and related taxes, licensing, insurance and maintenance. 

 

These "savings" are wiped out when we fly back for annual visits, which cost me anywhere from $9,000-$13,000 a pop between air fare, rental cars and cash burn. 

 

So it might be a wash for me if we lived there full-time, and the money we spend on back and forth travel, and then some, would go toward housing and its related costs.   I would also need to diminish my income producing portfolio to buy housing vs. rent, then I would probably "have" to work, even part time, to fill the void.  Wife would probably have to work as well. 

 

And so we'll be in the work to live, live to work grind again. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by 55Jay

[JLCrab]

My relative cost index:

I can afford to live comfortably in Isaan Thailand.

I can afford to live comfortably in North-Central Florida.

[lannarebirth]

Would one not need to have an annual income below the poverty level in order to net a zero cost Obamacare policy? You would in my state and that puts you on Medicaid.

[mania]

On 12/31/2017 at 4:51 PM, lannarebirth said:

Would one not need to have an annual income below the poverty level in order to net a zero cost Obamacare policy? You would in my state and that puts you on Medicaid.

 

Actually his is not zero costs as he pays a $35 co-payment

 

What you say though is true about "annual income below the poverty level " for free care

But this is the weird part....does not matter how much you have in the bank but just that your "annual income" is under 16-18k a year for a couple.

 

This is an odd country these days

 

 

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, mania said:

 

Actually his is not zero costs as he pays a $35 co-payment

 

What you say though is true about "annual income below the poverty level " for free care

But this is the weird part....does not matter how much you have in the bank but just that your "annual income" is under 16-18k a year for a couple.

 

This is an odd country these days

 

 

 

It's a pretty easy system to game if one doesn't mind drawing down their savings to live or set up a bond ladder.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/27/theyre-millionaires-and-they-get-obamacare-subsidies.html

[mania]

2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's a pretty easy system to game if one doesn't mind drawing down their savings to live or set up a bond ladder.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/27/theyre-millionaires-and-they-get-obamacare-subsidies.html

 

Yeah there was a time when these things pissed me off but as I get older & see

our government giving 8 Billion a year to others like Israel  (what is that like 20 million a day??)

Or especially after the 2008 banker bail out

 

Now I no longer care if I see citizens gain anything

 

[GinBoy2]

21 hours ago, mania said:

 

Actually his is not zero costs as he pays a $35 co-payment

 

What you say though is true about "annual income below the poverty level " for free care

But this is the weird part....does not matter how much you have in the bank but just that your "annual income" is under 16-18k a year for a couple.

 

This is an odd country these days

 

 

You are correct. You can have $1M in the bank, but your income on that money is small, hence you qualify for the tax credit offset.

I have assets, so I chose the high deductible ($5000) but with a non deductible $35 doctors office co-pay plan, so I could get a prescription for an asthma inhaler or similar prescription pretty cheaply. 

If something catastrophic happened to me, I could cover the deductible, but in the overall scheme of US health care I’d be fine.

Now again one of the vagaries of our wonderful system is all depends on the State that you reside, and what providers offers plans in that State. 

I’m pretty certain that the provider I got here only provides coverage in the midwest, so it’s hard to give a generic answer

[Ahab]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 8:53 AM, JLCrab said:

My relative cost index:

I can afford to live comfortably in Isaan Thailand.

I can afford to live comfortably in North-Central Florida.

Ditto. The amount we are currently living comfortably on in Isaan Thailand would not pay the monthly rent (and only the rent) on the island of Oahu (Hawaii, USA). Here we live comfortably and are able to travel around Thailand and explore the country each month or so.

[4MyEgo]

On 01/01/2018 at 11:54 AM, simoh1490 said:

There have been numerous threads over the years on TVF showing cost comparisons between a home country and Thailand, the answer is very similar to the often asked question, how much does it cost to live here - the answer is, how long is a piece of string! Different locations, different lifestyles both in the home country and within Thailand make precise comparisons very difficult to achieve, even approximate comparisons are unreliable. Age, personal preference, location within each country, lifestyle preferences, health status, family age and size and more, all make the task almost impossible. We live in a semi-rural setting just North of Chiang Mai and our living costs are quite low, as a retired person they are almost certainly lower than a 20 something who is renting and partying a lot. Contrast that with ten years ago when we lived in Phuket where our living costs were 250% greater than they are today.

Similarly, the cost of living in Palo Alto is quite different from that in Detroit, as is the cost to live in London versus the industrial North.

 

So when somebody comes along with some sample living costs that show it's cheaper to live in the USA than it is in Thailand, it's understandable that some posters get suspicious - that's either an incomplete cost comparison that is based on naivety or it's a purposeful attempt to make a case that one location is more expensive than the other, which is yours!

I think one of the most overlooked areas when people are looking to move abroad should be, how much can I make to survive comfortably in Thailand without having to pay tax, everything else will follow that and fall into place.

 

Living in Isaan will cost less to live than it will in Bangkok, Phuket, or Pattaya for that matter.

 

I budgeted for 40,000 baht per month, house built and paid off, as is the car and bike, but have exceeded that amount every month I am sure because I can afford too.

 

If you are in a fortunate position to have lived in a country where you had a property and sold it and then invested your hard earned $'s into, for example the share market, in blue chip low risk shares, that pay good dividends, and you buy and sell shares as well, and your government doesn't tax you additionally because the stocks are fully franked, and also doesn't tax you on capital gains i.e. the company paying you the dividends has already deducted the tax, and there is no need to pay capital gains tax, then your on a great wicket and could be earning much more than you were earning back home in comparison to here.

 

For me personally, I have found food, beer, labour costs, car insurance, house insurance, water, council and electricity rates to be much much cheaper here than back in Sydney, however if you want the good things that your used to back home, then you will pay the same prices as back home, if not more in some situations.

 

Don't forget the reason you moved here for, for me it was to never have to work another day, to slow my mind right down, to eat well, to not rush, to just breath, to exist, to play, to have fun, to be bored at times, to drink in moderation, to eat well and never have to worry about making ends meet, ever again, or a boss busting my balls to meet ridiculous deadlines so he could make his bonus off of my broken buns.

Edited January 5, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[sirineou]

 You can compare until the cows come home but it will not get you anywhere.  You need to look at the bottom line.

As with anything in life there good things and there bad things with everything.

There is no denying that labor is cheaper in Thailand, So anything that has a Thai labor component in it, will be less expensive . 

  Then there is the freedom in Thailand that allows you   to do some things less expensive but does not offer you the protections of more regulation .

For instance, In my Florida home , I wanted to build a shed in my backyard,  (I have 30 years in the carpenters union) , I drew nice detailed plans (studs 16" OC, T111 ply , etc )  and went to the planning commision to get a permit. The building inspector looked at my plans and said that they were great, but needed to be approved and stamp  by an architect , I asked if he knew , approximately how much such thing would cost, and the cost he mentioned was more than it would have cost me to buy one already pre made from the home depot.  then he said that I would have to put it so many ft from the 

back fence, and so many ft from the side fence, in an other words , In the middle of my yard!!

So I went to the home depot , bought a pre-maid one , put it on skids , up against the fence, (if I ever need to sell, I will hook it to the back of my truck and pull it to where it need to be to be legal.

    The point , anyone that will be buying my house would be protected that everything is legal, but. it will be a lot more expensive.

S0 when I hear people complain about things in Thailand and how they need to improve, I always say, "be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it"

So I build a very nice house in Khon Kaen on land we already own, for less than what I paid for my Pick up truck in the US. 

I still keep my house in the US, I don't know when situations might force me to have to repatriate.

But, if you own your own house . paid for, in Thailand,  you own your own car and have a modest income,. Then life can be pretty sweet. 

 

PS: people say the have no agenda. Not true!! people always have the agenda of rationalising their decisions . 

Edited January 5, 2018 by sirineou

[GinBoy2]

OK here is my 'agenda' to simply give real number to some of the endless nonsense that gets spouted about this topic.

You realize, I've said it enough, we still own a house in Thailand and plan to do a 50:50 split of our time, so no I don't hate Thailand, just 'for us' Thailand has lost the appeal of living there full time. In point of fact we would have been back in Thailand by now if Mrs G hadn't wanted to see snow for the first time in her life

I't's like if I said I like cats, I'd be accused of hating dogs, yet I like both. That being said I'm intellectually capable of comparing both cats and dogs, pluses and minuses, doesn't mean I have to denigrate one or the other.

It appears some you would have to hate one or the other, and God forbid anything that you perceive is being negative gets said about your favorite furry creatures.
Sometimes you can be objective without having to favor one or the other.
....now back to fighting like cats n dogs

Enjoy your silo's guys!

[lannarebirth]

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

OK here is my 'agenda' to simply give real number to some of the endless nonsense that gets spouted about this topic.

You realize, I've said it enough, we still own a house in Thailand and plan to do a 50:50 split of our time, so no I don't hate Thailand, just 'for us' Thailand has lost the appeal of living there full time. In point of fact we would have been back in Thailand by now if Mrs G hadn't wanted to see snow for the first time in her life

I't's like if I said I like cats, I'd be accused of hating dogs, yet I like both. That being said I'm intellectually capable of comparing both cats and dogs, pluses and minuses, doesn't mean I have to denigrate one or the other.

It appears some you would have to hate one or the other, and God forbid anything that you perceive is being negative gets said about your favorite furry creatures.
Sometimes you can be objective without having to favor one or the other.
....now back to fighting like cats n dogs

Enjoy your silo's guys!

 

You make a lot of good points. BTW, what's the temperature there today?

[GinBoy2]

5 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You make a lot of good points. BTW, what's the temperature there today?

Next week....