Prayut threatens not to call an election this year ‘unless public order prevails’

[heybruce]

15 hours ago, djjamie said:

If democracy means we go back to the dark days of spilt blood then I as well as all peace loving Thai's will chose the Junta. 

 

I am getting use to the peace that the Junta has brought. No bloody street protests, no grenades, no burning buildings and a robust economy with ever growing tourism bringing in billions of baht. The tourism numbers in itself is testament that Prayut has got it right and has brought an unheralded peace to a country craving it. 

 

If Thailand is not ready then so be it. 

In the first year after the coup you wrote countless posts about how Prayut was creating a wonderful new democracy.  Now even you admit that isn't true, but it hasn't ended your man-crush on Prayut.

 

There has always been a minority that prefers autocratic rule (we still can't call this government what it really is) over democracy.  However it is clearly a minority.  If you don't believe that, hold an election to see.

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

That is the problem, now these guys lookt the treasury before it was YL and her's that did so, pretty sure the Dem/Newin coalition did some looting too. So what is the difference in the end ?

 

Without a good alternative it will be just fighting about who will be in power to loot the treasury like it has been forever. As long as corruption on a large scale exists no goverment will be good for the people only for themselves.

Corrupt military governments never clean up corruption.  Why should they?

 

Corrupt elected governments clean up corruption when the voters demand it.   What choice do they have?

[heybruce]

13 hours ago, steven100 said:

It is the majority of Thai's who want peace and economic stability and that is what this government is providing.

You cannot argue with the truth.

Why not give the Thai people a choice between the messiness of democracy or the peace and stability of repressive military government? 

 

Oh wait, that would be too democratic for you.

[baboon]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Corrupt military governments never clean up corruption.  Why should they?

 

Corrupt elected governments clean up corruption when the voters demand it.   What choice do they have?

Or they don't. But then they have media, court cases, parliamentary scrutiny and the ballot box to worry about. Better that than this absurd notion of the 'benevolent dictator' which the sh!t sandwich sellers are proffering for our delectation...

Edited January 1, 2018 by baboon

[Scouse123]

They will make sure no elections are held and they have no intentions of having any. This is for public consumption and international press releases to try to get the West to accept his autocracy which is backed by the military and hand in glove with the police.

 

A few Bangkok bombs here and there around about March/April should do the trick and a few bombings in the deep South will finish and put an end to any nonsense about democratic elections. Drum roll.......Thailand is not stable enough to call elections.

 

After all, he and his cronies believe that the Thai public is just too stupid to be allowed to vote as they keep voting for, and electing the wrong party.

[pokerface1]

23 hours ago, steven100 said:

While ever there is unrest between parties there can be no election .....  this is common sense.

This has been proven in Thai history that democracy won't work in Thailand ...  to much political fighting.

Good job Khun Prayuth Chan O Cha for the work you have done.

Thailands economy is firing with GDP and exports up and more jobs created. It is expected that Thailand will be even more robust this year.

Happy new year to the government   !!

He has much more power than the previous parties ever had. Not only does he have the military but he also has the police force on side. Law and order therefor has a greater chance at being enforced with him in power. I think generally the Thai people are happy enough if he stays in power as long as possible. He's only a newbie in this role and still has much to learn, sure he has a long list of mistakes .........lets hope it gets shorter this year

[jerojero]

Surprise surprise surprise? Not really. There will not be election in 2018, or 19, or 20. Why would Mr Art44 PM give up power?

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, pokerface1 said:

He has much more power than the previous parties ever had. Not only does he have the military but he also has the police force on side. Law and order therefor has a greater chance at being enforced with him in power. I think generally the Thai people are happy enough if he stays in power as long as possible. He's only a newbie in this role and still has much to learn, sure he has a long list of mistakes .........lets hope it gets shorter this year

Interesting.  You think that giving unchecked power to one man who used the military to seize power, and giving this man the might of the military and police to protect his power and enforce his decrees, is a good thing.  Do you want a similar situation for your own country?

 

Regarding enforcing law and order, they are only being enforced for some people.  Not the "quality", above the law people.

 

Regarding how you think the Thai people feel, why not have an election so we can know how they feel?

Edited January 1, 2018 by heybruce

[Aj Mick]

But sir, you promised........

[metisdead]

A post that had an image containing a profane acronym has been removed as well as the reply. 

[pokerface1]

43 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Interesting.  You think that giving unchecked power to one man who used the military to seize power, and giving this man the might of the military and police to protect his power and enforce his decrees, is a good thing.  Do you want a similar situation for your own country?

 

Regarding enforcing law and order, they are only being enforced for some people.  Not the "quality", above the law people.

 

Regarding how you think the Thai people feel, why not have an election so we can know how they feel?

Oh so you think an election will create a truly democratic government. I think not. The elected party will still just be a puppet of the Junta hence there is no upside in pretending an election is going to create democracy

[Stargeezr]

The road map is full of excuses that are called detours, and delay is the goal

to stay in power as long as possible.

Geezer

[YetAnother]

On 1/1/2018 at 4:45 AM, webfact said:

If you want an election, you should stay in order peacefully.

does that sound like a military general to you ? in effect, he is carrot-and-stick ordering us to be 'orderly' , by omnipotent definition, his only

[Bob12345]

21 hours ago, djjamie said:

If democracy means we go back to the dark days of spilt blood then I as well as all peace loving Thai's will chose the Junta. 

 

I am getting use to the peace that the Junta has brought. No bloody street protests, no grenades, no burning buildings and a robust economy with ever growing tourism bringing in billions of baht. The tourism numbers in itself is testament that Prayut has got it right and has brought an unheralded peace to a country craving it. 

 

If Thailand is not ready then so be it. 

Hate to say it, but your post lacks credible content:

...the peace the junta has brought...

They brought violence by having Suthep instigate it. Before that there was little violence going on (except the South of course).

...No bloody street protests, no grenades, no burning buildings...

Which were all part of the street protests and the military starting to shoot people in the streets

...a robust economy...

Only less robust than before the junta jumped in

...ever growing tourism bringing in billions of baht...

Which was already ever growing before the junta and will still be ever growing after the junta.

...The tourism numbers in itself is testament that Prayut has got it right...

In that case Taksin also had it right, as did Yingluck as tourist numbers also increased under them.

...has brought an unheralded peace to a country craving it.

But he brought the "war" first when he colluded with Suthep to overthrow the government.

 

And no, i do not expect a reply as that is not how you roll.

You post some propaganda and never look back at the topic when people point out the flaws.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Corrupt military governments never clean up corruption.  Why should they?

 

Corrupt elected governments clean up corruption when the voters demand it.   What choice do they have?

Corrupt elected goverments in Thailand have never cleaned up corruption.. so lets not act like that is going to happen. 

[Srikcir]

46 minutes ago, robblok said:

Corrupt elected goverments in Thailand have never cleaned up corruption.. so lets not act like that is going to happen. 

The same might be said of military-led governments whose regimes in total outlast elected regimes:

 

"WHILE THE junta continued to claim that fighting corruption was on its agenda over the past year, the state-centric approach brought into question whether junta leaders were truly serious about dealing with graft – or were instead using the issue for their own benefit or to attack particular parties" - Mana Nimitmongkol, secretary-general of the Anti-corruption Organisation of Thailand

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1018316-public-sceptical-of-junta-fight-against-graft-watchdog/?utm_source=newsletter-20180102-0705&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

 

[Bob12345]

49 minutes ago, robblok said:

Corrupt elected goverments in Thailand have never cleaned up corruption.. so lets not act like that is going to happen. 

I think we should not see corruption as black and white, especially not in Thailand.

Everybody who has something to say, is in a position of power, or has a lot of followers, has been corrupted in some way.

What we should look at is the level of corruption which can indicate the overall trend.

 

Point is that we cannot hope for someone totally not corrupt to take power next, we should just hope he is less corrupt than the current person.

Therefore it is important that every government strengthens the checks and balances going forward, instead of putting more and more power towards their own group (by stacking the senate, by appointing the NACC, etc). Plus there need to be regular changes of power... like every 4 years instead of when the current person feels like it and has wasted all his goodwill.

 

By those points Taksin was poison for Thailand, as he consolidated power.

Prayut is even worse, as he consolidates power on an even bigger scale (which will take decades to be wind down again unless they get another constitution).

Yingluck was a breath of fresh air in between (relatively), as she was less occupied with power and more with shopping 

[robblok]

Just now, Srikcir said:

The same might be said of military-led governments whose regimes in total outlast elected regimes:

 

"WHILE THE junta continued to claim that fighting corruption was on its agenda over the past year, the state-centric approach brought into question whether junta leaders were truly serious about dealing with graft – or were instead using the issue for their own benefit or to attack particular parties" - Mana Nimitmongkol, secretary-general of the Anti-corruption Organisation of Thailand

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1018316-public-sceptical-of-junta-fight-against-graft-watchdog/?utm_source=newsletter-20180102-0705&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

 

Yes the same can be said of the junta now.. hence my disappointment, point being that neither the junta or ANY democratic goverment in Thailand is going to do anything about corruption that benefits themselves. 

 

So what is the difference.. one corrupt entity gets voted in to loot the treasury or one takes power after the people revolted against an corrupt goverment. For me its all the same now.. no hope no future... because there will be no change.

 

I had hopes before but after seeing how they handled all the corruption issues on their own side the latest being the watches all those hopes have been removed. That does not mean i disagree with all the junta does, or with everything a democratic goverment does. 

 

Just means I will criticize them both, but as I am seeing it no matter who is in power they are always looting the treasury and that is not going to change. 

[pornprong]

47 minutes ago, robblok said:

Corrupt elected goverments in Thailand have never cleaned up corruption.. so lets not act like that is going to happen. 

Of course it will happen.

Democracy is the key.

Opposition party's know the best way to win voters over is to expose incidence of corruption (or incompetence) on the other side.

Gradually, election after election, corruption in Thailand will reduce from the ridiculous extreme it currently sits at down to something approaching normalcy.

 

Thailand doesn't have consecutive elections because those robbing the country know that consecutive elections will bring about a severe reduction in their cashflow.

 

Thailand's problem is that no opposition is allowed or when there is an opposition, they want to take shortcuts to power by-passing elections.

 

Another point to note - every elected Thaksinite government was hounded by permanent institutions such as the courts and the NACC, every unelected military government is hounded (or even questioned) by no one.

 

Care to explain how a lifetime soldier has come to own 10 million baht worth of wristwatches??

Actually, forget that question - we all know the answer already.

Why don't you try and explain the complete lack of investigation and inquiry into Prawit - because herein lies the heart of what ails Thailand.

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

I think we should not see corruption as black and white, especially not in Thailand.

Everybody who has something to say, is in a position of power, or has a lot of followers, has been corrupted in some way.

What we should look at is the level of corruption which can indicate the overall trend.

 

Point is that we cannot hope for someone totally not corrupt to take power next, we should just hope he is less corrupt than the current person.

Therefore it is important that every government strengthens the checks and balances going forward, instead of putting more and more power towards their own group (by stacking the senate, by appointing the NACC, etc). Plus there need to be regular changes of power... like every 4 years instead of when the current person feels like it and has wasted all his goodwill.

 

By those points Taksin was poison for Thailand, as he consolidated power.

Prayut is even worse, as he consolidates power on an even bigger scale (which will take decades to be wind down again unless they get another constitution).

Yingluck was a breath of fresh air in between (relatively), as she was less occupied with power and more with shopping 

Yea maybe we get something less corrupt.. but if the next people who are in power is the PTP then with all those anti PTP NACC checkers they should be good and less corrupt. Now if the next people in power are an army backed party those checks and balances mean less. 

 

But either way corruption is not going to change.

 

As for YL being a breath of fresh air.. i disagree (corruption wise power wise I agree), YL did let those fake G2G deals go on that cost the taxpayer loads of money. Too bad we can't know how much the junta has stolen to compare it.. just gut feelings. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Of course it will happen.

Democracy is the key.

Opposition party's know the best way to win voters over is to expose incidence of corruption (or incompetence) on the other side.

Gradually, election after election, corruption in Thailand will reduce from the ridiculous extreme it currently sits at down to something approaching normalcy.

 

Thailand doesn't have consecutive elections because those robbing the country know that consecutive elections will bring about a severe reduction in their cashflow.

 

Thailand's problem is that no opposition is allowed or when there is an opposition, they want to take shortcuts to power by-passing elections.

 

Another point to note - every elected Thaksinite government was hounded by permanent institutions such as the courts and the NACC, every unelected military government is hounded (or even questioned) by no one.

 

Care to explain how a lifetime soldier has come to own 10 million baht worth of wristwatches??

Actually, forget that question - we all know the answer already.

Why don't you try and explain the complete lack of investigation and inquiry into Prawit - because herein lies the heart of what ails Thailand.

 

I disagree because we have not seen any changes in corruption. Democracy has cleaned nothing up. Not in Thailand and it wont happen. Remember when the democrats came out with rotting rice and fake rice deals. They were opposition and it was their job to point this out. They were ignored and YL said no corruption and brushed them aside. Now after the junta took power at least that corruption has been punished. It has been shown there was rotting rice and there were fake G2G deals, I am not sure that this would have happened without the junta in power. So... I have little faith in a democracy cleaning up corruption over here. Nor have i gotten any faith in the junta cleaning up corruption on their own side. To be fair YL did not clean it up on her side too just deny it. So in a way its all the same but at least the junta did get some corruption of the PTP. 

 

Point being only a goverment change can bring corruption of previous governments to light, and only if that other goverment is not the same as the previous. So was that going to happen.. nope it would be PTP on power not going after their own. 

 

If things were perfect we would have democrats in power... then ptp in power.. then democrats and ptp again and each going after corruption of their predecessors. (even better if they are going after their own but that will never happen here). But with a PTP dominating the votes (always won with a margin) there was no reason for them not being corrupt. 

[mtls2005]

Way back in 2014, when Prayut said there would no coup, and then he said there would elections before the end of 2015, some people said the Junta was planning on being around until 2020. Most scoffed at that timetable, which is now appearing to be overly ambitious.

 

The Myanmar military made the mistake in their first try, and suffered a resounding defeat. The Thai military probably realizes that they might suffer a similar loss of face, even though they need a paltry amount of lower house seats.

 

In the end though, they can just stage another coup. Who's counting?

 

Is Prawet is keeping "watch" on "public order?

 

Does the "roadmap" have some definition of acceptable "public order"?

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, pokerface1 said:

Oh so you think an election will create a truly democratic government. I think not. The elected party will still just be a puppet of the Junta hence there is no upside in pretending an election is going to create democracy

No, I think a series of elected governments with the military staying out of politics will bring democracy to Thailand.  The cycles of election-coup-election-coup will not.  However an election that shows the military how much the people of Thailand don't want to be under military rule is the first step to breaking the cycle.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Corrupt elected goverments in Thailand have never cleaned up corruption.. so lets not act like that is going to happen. 

How many corrupt governments in Thailand have lasted long enough to clean up corruption? 

 

How many consecutive elected governments chosen by the Thai people have there been in which the voters have been allowed to express and confirm their desire for government that serves the people, not the elites? 

 

What would happen to an elected government that immediately tackled the massive corruption in the military, police, and civil service before democracy became deeply entrenched?

 

I'll give you a hint:  Since the military forced "constitutional monarchy" on Thailand in 1932, only one PM has been allowed to finish his elected term in office followed by another election.  That was Thaksin, and his second term didn't last long.

 

On the other hand, military governments have had ample opportunities to tackle corruption.  How well have they done?

[Bob12345]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Point being only a goverment change can bring corruption of previous governments to light, and only if that other goverment is not the same as the previous.

Agree with you on almost everything, only the above part is not true in Thailand as there is always one party above the law... and thats the military.

 

Unfortunately they are historically one of the most corrupted, and at the same time totally untouchable.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

Agree with you on almost everything, only the above part is not true in Thailand as there is always one party above the law... and thats the military.

 

Unfortunately they are historically one of the most corrupted, and at the same time totally untouchable.

Agreed its highly unlikely that the actions of the military will be checked by a next government. I am not sure if they are the most corrupted, still think the Shins are, but your right they are almost untouchable and that makes it bad, at least the Shins got punished the army has not.

[William C F Pierce]

On 01/01/2018 at 9:31 AM, djjamie said:

If democracy means we go back to the dark days of spilt blood then I as well as all peace loving Thai's will chose the Junta. 

 

I am getting use to the peace that the Junta has brought. No bloody street protests, no grenades, no burning buildings and a robust economy with ever growing tourism bringing in billions of baht. The tourism numbers in itself is testament that Prayut has got it right and has brought an unheralded peace to a country craving it. 

 

If Thailand is not ready then so be it. 

In many western countries political protests have to take place under the law with permission from the police. In western countries you would not be allowed to indulge in 6 months of insurrection. You would also get prosecuted for interferring in a general election. A General Election is the ultimate protest of a whole nation. The Junta has not secured peace, because they have failed to deal with this and legislate for better democracy, with their new constitution. They have failed to prevent undemocratic insurrection in the future.  As a country Thailand has had more military coups than any other nation. True democracy will only come once Thailand has had it's own civil war.