No more Gasohol 91 after January 2

[prepress]

I found a note in my calendar, that from today the sale of Gasohol 91 will be stopped. Anyone can confirm?

And what type of gasoline should I fill up now. My Yamaha Nuovo run excellent with 91.

[OmegaRacer]

I dont know where you got that information from, but i doubt it very much.

Benzin (the yellow one) was also supposed to disappear a few years ago, but you can still find it quite easily.

 

Anyway, you can always use 95, even better for your bike. 

[KarenBravo]

I doubt if that is true.

My ancient Honda Cubs cannot use any gasohol and I'm still buying 95 octane pure benzine at a few PTT and Caltex stations.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

21 minutes ago, prepress said:

My Yamaha Nuovo run excellent with 91.

It'll run just fine on 95 so-hol or 95 benzine. 

 

You can put a higher than recommended octane rating fuel in your engine but you dont want to go lower than the manufacturer recommends. 

 

You wont really see/feel any difference. 

 

7 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

My ancient Honda Cubs cannot use any gasohol

They'd be fine too as long as you dont let the fuel sit for an extended period of time. 

 

Its only 10% ethanol. 

[KarenBravo]

19 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

It'll run just fine on 95 so-hol or 95 benzine. 

 

You can put a higher than recommended octane rating fuel in your engine but you dont want to go lower than the manufacturer recommends. 

 

You wont really see/feel any difference. 

 

They'd be fine too as long as you dont let the fuel sit for an extended period of time. 

 

Its only 10% ethanol. 

No, it eventually clogs up the carburetor from the rubber and plastic hoses that the gasohol eats away at.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

I doubt if that is true.

My ancient Honda Cubs cannot use any gasohol and I'm still buying 95 octane pure benzine at a few PTT and Caltex stations.

You can get a fuel line & carb kit for a cub or maybe it has been fitted already during service schedules.

The change to gasohol or any bike that needs to take gasohol is not impossible.

My new CRF250 can use E20. 

[Sunak]

There is a plan to phase out Gasohol 91.

It was in misc. reports in 2017.

I don't remember the details, but it was sure not planned for this year or at least not Jan 1.

Price difference between Gasohol 91 and 95 is marginal anyway.

So not a big deal.

91 octane was out-phased in many European countries since long.

No reason to use expensive benzene (without Ethanol) if the vehicle is designed for E10 Gasohol (10% ethanol).

Recent cars and scooters run well also on E20.

--------

Just found a report from 2016(!) that Gasohol 91 should be stopped on Jan 1, 2018.

But as you know, some things take a little longer in Thailand.

Another report about a "plan" from 2012

[UncleTouchyFingers]

3 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

No, it eventually clogs up the carburetor from the rubber and plastic hoses that the gasohol eats away at.

 

The carb will clog from evaporation of the ethanol/fuel, hence dont leave it sit for months.

 

But it isnt gonna "eat rubber hoses" at 10%E. 

 

You can barely even buy gasoline in the US without the 10% ethanol in it. Unless youre talking about chainsaws or outboard boat engines that sit for extended periods, then yeah dont use it, but a scooter that goes through a tank every few days/week no big deal. 

 

Anyway put whatever you want in it but your fear is a bit misplaced. 

 

 

[KarenBravo]

I can still get benzine at my nearest gas station, so, I'll keep using that, though, it's good to know I can use E10 in an emergency.

[JonnyF]

They won't ban 91, but even if they do you can use 95. The extra mileage you get from 95 compared to 91 makes up for the small difference in price.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

55 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The extra mileage you get from 95 compared to 91 makes up for the small difference in price.

 

You dont get extra mileage from higher octane fuel. 

 

 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

You dont get extra mileage from higher octane fuel. 

 

 

You do on high compression engines, but I'd agree that on the OP Yamaha Nouvo you probably wouldn't.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You do on high compression engines, but I'd agree that on the OP Yamaha Nouvo you probably wouldn't.

 

You'd run high octane in a high compression engine, so its a moot point. 

 

Putting 95 in a honda civic wont result in any increased power or a reduction in fuel consumption. 

 

Putting 95 in a scooter wont result in anything either. 

 

It just doesn't work like that. 

 

Totally fine to put 95 in there, but it isnt "unlocking" any hidden power, or saving gas.

 

You could test it yourself by filling your tank when the light comes on & calculating the Km's used until the light comes on again, but you wont see any difference. 

[papa al]

Right, E10   95 and 91 have the same energy/power potential.

Higher octane mitigates knock/ping/pre-ignition in hi-compression engines.

Thats it.

Pure benzin/gasoline has a bit more energy density,

but not nearly in proportion to the steep price difference.

Ethanol is hydroscopic/hydrophilic, 

absorbing water out of the air.

Can be a big prob for vehicles stored a while.

;-)

[speedtripler]

On 02/01/2018 at 7:00 PM, Kwasaki said:

You can get a fuel line & carb kit for a cub or maybe it has been fitted already during service schedules.

The change to gasohol or any bike that needs to take gasohol is not impossible.

My new CRF250 can use E20. 

Nearly everything from the first cbr250 from 2010 can take e20 which is far more corrosive to rubber than e10

 

All modern (small) bikes will run great but my preference is 

Benzene #1

Gasahol 95 #2

Gasahol 91 #3

Gasohol e20

 

If you have a superbike/car I'd go for the highest octane at the pump but for most people filling up their honda click to tootle around town it will probably make no noticeable difference so the cheap stuff will be fine 

 

 

 

 

[AllanB]

It is now January 6th and no sign of 91gasahol disappearing.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that a bike designed to run on 91 won't run on 95, it is essentially the same fuel, the reason you use 91 is that the low compression engines are unable to take advantage of the higher octane levels. On the other hand running on a lower octane level than design, will restrict performance and even damage the engine.

 

The ethanol levels can be a problem on older bikes, but newer bikes sold here are designed to run on most fuels available here.

 

Politically, abolishing 91 gasahol will be seen as a dig at the poor. 98% of the bikes on the roads here run on the fuel they now want to get rid of, it is madness.

[Kwasaki]

13 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Nearly everything from the first cbr250 from 2010 can take e20 which is far more corrosive to rubber than e10

 

All modern (small) bikes will run great but my preference is 

Benzene #1

Gasahol 95 #2

Gasahol 91 #3

Gasohol e20

 

If you have a superbike/car I'd go for the highest octane at the pump but for most people filling up their honda click to tootle around town it will probably make no noticeable difference so the cheap stuff will be fine 

Yeah it's of a kinda personal choice if you ask me,  talking with engineers most will say if the design of the engine takes certain fuels & a certain grade oils why not use them but don't keep chopping & changing constantly.  

If they do away with 91e10 then I'll go 95e10 if the price of e20 even though I don't know the octane rate is a greater saving I'll go with that.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If they do away with 91e10 then I'll go 95e10 if the price of e20 even though I don't know the octane rate is a greater saving I'll go with that.

 

I wouldn't put E20 in anything unless the manufacturer specifically recommends/says its ok. 

 

As you ramp up the ethanol percentage in gasoline, you also have to ramp up the fuel curve. Most modern engines can probably handle that within the standard ECU programming but I wouldn't try it. 

 

1 gallon of Ethanol does not equal 1 gallon of gasoline. It takes more ethanol to create the same A/F ratio as gasoline. 

 

This is the main issue with ethanol fuels, that and it attracts water. 

 

Most E85 conversions for cars & trucks are nothing more than huge injectors, fuel lines and fuel pumps. Its not because it will "eat hoses" its because the supply lines are not large enough. Requires something like 50% more fuel delivery capacity. 

[canthai55]

https://neutrium.net/properties/specific-energy-and-energy-density-of-fuels/

Common Fuels

Fuel	Density kg/m3kg/m^{3}kg/m3	Specific Energy MJ/kgMJ/kgMJ/kg	Energy Density MJ/m3MJ/m^{3}MJ/m3
Gasoline	716	-47.3	-33,867
Kerosene	830	-46.2	-38,346
Diesel Fuel	830	-44.8	-37,184
Ethanol	784	-29.7	-23,278
Coal (Anthracite)	1350	-27	-36,450
Methanol	787	-22.7	-17,855

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, AllanB said:

Politically, abolishing 91 gasahol will be seen as a dig at the poor. 98% of the bikes on the roads here run on the fuel they now want to get rid of, it is madness.

I don't see it like that, most of the poor in our village use bicycles,  the not so well off wave type motorbike owners & scoot owners push their bikes to pumps in the soi's where they only have to pay for 20 baht worth of fuel and these pumps are all 95 E10.  

[AllanB]

22 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't see it like that, most of the poor in our village use bicycles,  the not so well off wave type motorbike owners & scoot owners push their bikes to pumps in the soi's where they only have to pay for 20 baht worth of fuel and these pumps are all 95 E10.  

You must live in a different part of Thailand to me, Isaan is considered the poorest part of Thailand and in the villages here, only children ride bicycles, indeed even young kids ride around on motorcycles. The more wealthy folks fit a sidecar for the family or business, or both, so everyone uses 91.

 

What you consider a small increase has a big impact on the poor and even if it makes little real difference, the political impact will be considerable. Not that they can do much...

 

The people selling fuel by the bottle will put 95 gasahol in and that means less for 20 baht.

[speedtripler]

On 06/01/2018 at 10:01 AM, AllanB said:

It is now January 6th and no sign of 91gasahol disappearing.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that a bike designed to run on 91 won't run on 95, it is essentially the same fuel, the reason you use 91 is that the low compression engines are unable to take advantage of the higher octane levels. On the other hand running on a lower octane level than design, will restrict performance and even damage the engine.

 

The ethanol levels can be a problem on older bikes, but newer bikes sold here are designed to run on most fuels available here.

 

Politically, abolishing 91 gasahol will be seen as a dig at the poor. 98% of the bikes on the roads here run on the fuel they now want to get rid of, it is madness.

Nonsense, all bikes since about 2010 can even use e20 or 91 or 95 or benzene 

 

You think 98% of the bikes in Thailand will only run on gasahol 91 is laughable, seriously 

[AllanB]

4 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Nonsense, all bikes since about 2010 can even use e20 or 91 or 95 or benzene 

 

You think 98% of the bikes in Thailand will only run on gasahol 91 is laughable, seriously 

I didn't say they would only run on Gasahol 91, I was and am saying that most smaller petrol stations only have G91, G95 and diesel, many only have G91 and diesel and that will leave the bike rider with the more expensive 95. The people selling bottled petrol will now only offer the more expensive 95.

 

On top of that most don't understand what these "E" grades are and don't trust them. 

 

In Khon Kean, where they have them, the E pumps are very rarely used, I have personally never used them, I stick to G91 and G95 for the Lifan which needs 93+.

 

As far as I am concerned the lower the ethanol levels the better, the reason, these rubber compounds are "resistant" to ethanol and that resistance is not 100%. 

[speedtripler]

12 minutes ago, AllanB said:

I didn't say they would only run on Gasahol 91, I was and am saying that most smaller petrol stations only have G91, G95 and diesel, many only have G91 and diesel and that will leave the bike rider with the more expensive 95. The people selling bottled petrol will now only offer the more expensive 95.

 

On top of that most don't understand what these "E" grades are and don't trust them. 

 

In Khon Kean, where they have them, the E pumps are very rarely used, I have personally never used them, I stick to G91 and G95 for the Lifan which needs 93+.

 

As far as I am concerned the lower the ethanol levels the better, the reason, these rubber compounds are "resistant" to ethanol and that resistance is not 100%. 

If 91 is banned, the pumps that used to sell 91 will  change the green sticker to orange and sell 95

Don't worry, the world will not grind to a halt

 

Benzene is still  the best fuel you can buy in my opinions, even without considering engine wear I get less mpg per gallon using ethanol blends but it is 20% cheaper than premium benzene and if you don't have a high quality performance vehicle then you should probably save your money and run the cheap stuff

[AllanB]

4 hours ago, speedtripler said:

If 91 is banned, the pumps that used to sell 91 will  change the green sticker to orange and sell 95

Don't worry, the world will not grind to a halt

 

Benzene is still  the best fuel you can buy in my opinions, even without considering engine wear I get less mpg per gallon using ethanol blends but it is 20% cheaper than premium benzene and if you don't have a high quality performance vehicle then you should probably save your money and run the cheap stuff

Not worried, nothing will change for me, I am a rich farang, not sure why the authorities are doing this. Most manufacturers have designed their engines around 91 octane fuel...??