Honeymoon Period Over for Kamala Harris Polls Show Tight Race

[webfact]

Britons gloomier about Brexit but no change of heart - pollster Curtice

 

Protesters wave the EU and Union flags outside the Palace of Westminster in London, Britain, December 20, 2017. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls

 

EDINBURGH (Reuters) - British pessimism on the economic consequences of leaving the European Union is growing, but Britons have not broadly changed their minds about how they voted, Britain's leading pollster John Curtice said on Tuesday.

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May is trying to deliver a new trading relationship with the EU with her authority diminished by party infighting, the resignation of key allies, a fractious parliament, a divided electorate and a tight timetable before the March 2019 Brexit deadline.

 

Research carried out in October by the National Centre for Social Research (NatCen), where Curtice is senior research fellow, found Britons increasingly critical of the UK government's handling of Brexit.

 

"Although voters ... blame the government, blame the EU, 'Leave' voters for the most part have not changed their minds about their decision," Curtice, who is also a professor of politics at Strathclyde University, told a presentation in the Scottish capital. "'Leave' voters are saying the government is mucking up, not that the decision we made (to leave the EU) was wrong."

 

The NatCen poll found 52 percent of Britons thought the economy would be worse off after Brexit, versus 46 percent in a similar poll last February. That compared with 58 percent of Scots, polled separately, unchanged from February.

 

As for Scotland, which voted to stay in the EU, Brexit is not a catalyst for Scottish independence from the UK but it has not dampened separatist fervour either, the poll found. Support for secession is at about 44 percent versus 45 percent in a 2014 independence referendum.

 

The poll also showed 52 percent of Britons now expect a "bad deal" versus 55 percent of Scots. That compares with 37 percent of Britons last February.

 

NatCen also found that support for a different Scottish immigration policy from the rest of the UK after Brexit, as favoured by the Scottish government, does not have majority support either and most Scots want the same immigration policy nationwide.

 

In Britain as a whole, 61 percent of those polled thought Brexit had been badly handled by the UK government, up from 41 percent in February and versus 69 percent in Scotland.

 

ScotCen polled 859 people, all of whom had been interviewed as part of the 2015 or 2016 Scottish Social Attitudes survey, which is carried out face to face.

 

(Reporting by Elisabeth O'Leary; Editing by Leslie Adler)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-01-10

[Samui Bodoh]

4 minutes ago, webfact said:

"'Leave' voters are saying the government is mucking up, not that the decision we made (to leave the EU) was wrong."

It is hard to argue against the idea that the UK government is handling this issue in about the worst possible manner. Simply put, they don't seem to have a clue what the hell they are doing; it is shocking that such a major undertaking is occurring with such little preparation or forethought.

 

However, the reason that the UK is in this position is the incredibly foolish decision to leave in the first place. The EU, with all its many, many faults, was beneficial for the UK. 

 

The UK voted to be small. That has ramifications, and I am sad for my British friends that they will be diminished for years/decades to come.

 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is hard to argue against the idea that the UK government is handling this issue in about the worst possible manner. Simply put, they don't seem to have a clue what the hell they are doing; it is shocking that such a major undertaking is occurring with such little preparation or forethought.

 

However, the reason that the UK is in this position is the incredibly foolish decision to leave in the first place. The EU, with all its many, many faults, was beneficial for the UK. 

 

The UK voted to be small. That has ramifications, and I am sad for my British friends that they will be diminished for years/decades to come.

 

In your opinion which you are entitled too but have failed to enlighten us all what you would do differently and if you are going to reply remember this, staying in the Single Market (as it is now) and Customs Union is not an option because in order to do so would require free movement and no ability for the UK enter trade deals with non EU countries......................effectively "not Leaving at all"

 

 

On reflection what I would have done differently.

 

- Filed Art 50 and walked away until such times as Brussels decided it was in everyone's interest to actually talk and negotiate properly without all the threats and nonsense we have seen from the EU side up to now

 

- If the next part of this process shows no sign of progress in the first 3 months then I would 100% walk out the door with a stern message - stop wasting our time either start playing ball or we go to WTO

[Enoon]

 

The research was carried out in Sept-Oct 2017.

 

Tucked way at the end of the report, in an appendix, the data also shows that, in another referendum, the vote (as of Sept 2017) would be 53% remain, 47% leave .

 

http://natcen.ac.uk/media/1508831/eu-briefing-paper-11-half-time-brexit-negotiations.pdf

 

But I'm sure nobody wants to hear that.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Enoon

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

In your opinion which you are entitled too but have failed to enlighten us all what you would do differently and if you are going to reply remember this, staying in the Single Market (as it is now) and Customs Union is not an option because in order to do so would require free movement and no ability for the UK enter trade deals with non EU countries......................effectively "not Leaving at all"

 

 

On reflection what I would have done differently.

 

- Filed Art 50 and walked away until such times as Brussels decided it was in everyone's interest to actually talk and negotiate properly without all the threats and nonsense we have seen from the EU side up to now

 

- If the next part of this process shows no sign of progress in the first 3 months then I would 100% walk out the door with a stern message - stop wasting our time either start playing ball or we go to WTO

you aren't depending on having a place to work then

[Enoon]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

The UK voted to be small. That has ramifications, and I am sad for my British friends that they will be diminished for years/decades to come.

 

 

The UK, like all collapsed empires, has been on its way to "small" for quite a while.

 

The broad political consensus, since the start of the reduction (with the loss of India, "The Jewel in the Crown", in 1947) has been "Managing Decline".

 

We have been doing quite well at that, but, every now and then, an idiot decides it's time to really f*** up and initiate events which take us to the next (lower) level, rapidly, with catastrophic results, that cause real, painful, unmistakable, material harm to the nation and the majority of its citizens.

 

This David Cameron did.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Enoon

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

The UK, like all collapsed empires, has been on its way to "small" for quite a while.

 

The broad political consensus, since the start of the reduction (with the loss of India, "The Jewel in the Crown", in 1947) has been "Managing Decline".

 

We have been doing quite well at that, but, every now and then, an idiot decides it's time to really f*** up and initiate events which take us to the next (lower) level, rapidly, with catastrophic results, that cause real, painful, unmistakable, material harm to the nation and the majority of its citizens.

 

This David Cameron did.

 

 

I don't know what the empire collapse has to do with Britain being on its way to small. The loss of empire was a long time ago and has no relevance to the direction of the UK economy for at least 50 years now. In relation to itself, the UK economy has grown tremendously since it joined what was then the Common Market and is now the EC.  In fact, it has climbed in the rankings until recently. Any upcoming decline in the UK's ranking among nations will have more to do with the rise of developing nations rather than any aftershocks from the loss of empire. This is not to defend Brexit which will certainly lead to some decline in economic growth. But there's no need for gratuitous bashing based on the irrelevant factor of a lost empire.

[smedly]

45 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

The UK, like all collapsed empires, has been on its way to "small" for quite a while.

 

The broad political consensus, since the start of the reduction (with the loss of India, "The Jewel in the Crown", in 1947) has been "Managing Decline".

 

We have been doing quite well at that, but, every now and then, an idiot decides it's time to really f*** up and initiate events which take us to the next (lower) level, rapidly, with catastrophic results, that cause real, painful, unmistakable, material harm to the nation and the majority of its citizens.

 

This David Cameron did.

 

 

you are talking absolute nonsense, the EU has held the UK back - it isn't working and is about to implode, thank god we got out just in time

 

only one country has prospered in the EU

 

open your eyes we have all been fleeced but not for much longer

[Stargeezr]

Is the Empire of the EU doing great today?  Is Greece back from being bankrupt, and has Italy and Spain magically solved their financial woes? Is Germany as rich and well off as it used to be, and is France a totally rich country?  Will Brussels continue to be as well off as it is so far? Just curious..

Geezer

[trianglechoke]

2 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

The UK, like all collapsed empires, has been on its way to "small" for quite a while.

 

The broad political consensus, since the start of the reduction (with the loss of India, "The Jewel in the Crown", in 1947) has been "Managing Decline".

 

We have been doing quite well at that, but, every now and then, an idiot decides it's time to really f*** up and initiate events which take us to the next (lower) level, rapidly, with catastrophic results, that cause real, painful, unmistakable, material harm to the nation and the majority of its citizens.

 

This David Cameron did.

 

 

I believe the people voted and David's vision of remaining in the EU was lost. But hey, why let an indisputable fact get in the way of the lie.

[Jeremy50]

The country is heading straight into a period of deep and prolonged depression thanks to the misguided votes of 17 million people. Congratulations! ...........................enjoy.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy50 said:

The country is heading straight into a period of deep and prolonged depression thanks to the misguided votes of 17 million people. Congratulations! ...........................enjoy.

Are you related to Mother Shipton by any chance?

[evadgib]

Quote

Dear Evadgib,

Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – "Leave the EU immediately".

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200165

The debate is scheduled for 22 January 2018.

Once the debate has happened, we'll email you a video and transcript.

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

Received the above email from HMG.

Edited January 10, 2018 by evadgib

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Received the above email from HMG.

Once a petition has reached more than a hundred thousand votes it has to be raised in the house.  I have had a few of these notifications on petitions I have signed.

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

The UK, like all collapsed empires, has been on its way to "small" for quite a while.

 

The broad political consensus, since the start of the reduction (with the loss of India, "The Jewel in the Crown", in 1947) has been "Managing Decline".

 

We have been doing quite well at that, but, every now and then, an idiot decides it's time to really f*** up and initiate events which take us to the next (lower) level, rapidly, with catastrophic results, that cause real, painful, unmistakable, material harm to the nation and the majority of its citizens.

 

This David Cameron did.

 

 

Why on earth do some people relate modern UK with the Empire? Everything has moved on. Britain is a modern country, with problems, which plays a fairly big role for it's relatively small size.

 

Does France get benchmarked against it's Napoleonic era all the time? Etc, etc.

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

In your opinion which you are entitled too but have failed to enlighten us all what you would do differently and if you are going to reply remember this, staying in the Single Market (as it is now) and Customs Union is not an option because in order to do so would require free movement and no ability for the UK enter trade deals with non EU countries......................effectively "not Leaving at all"

 

 

On reflection what I would have done differently.

 

- Filed Art 50 and walked away until such times as Brussels decided it was in everyone's interest to actually talk and negotiate properly without all the threats and nonsense we have seen from the EU side up to now

 

- If the next part of this process shows no sign of progress in the first 3 months then I would 100% walk out the door with a stern message - stop wasting our time either start playing ball or we go to WTO

Which is again "in your opinion" and that is the only thing any of us have because none of us know how this will pan out in the end.  May has stated over and over that we would be leaving the single market and customs union and it is hard for her now to just "change her mind".  I suspect that is why it was reported at the weekend that she was looking at a customs union plan pretty much the same as the one we have now.  By Monday there was no mention of it again......

 

You will notice the  David Davis complaint that the EU are now looking at a no-deal plan for the EU.  The idiot is surprised by that even though the mantra from May has always been "No deal is better than a bad deal".   Clearly this has scared Davis who knows very well that a no-deal would be an absolute disaster for the UK.  Don't like it when the EU calls your bluff, do you David!  That is not my opinion, just a fact. 

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

The country is heading straight into a period of deep and prolonged depression thanks to the misguided votes of 17 million people. Congratulations! ...........................enjoy.

 

Even the economic forecasters have given up on that one.

[dunroaming]

Just read this

 

"Philip Hammond and David Davis have made a direct appeal to German business leaders to help them forge a Brexit deal to secure the future of Britain’s financial services.

The chancellor and Brexit secretary travel to Germany on Wednesday on a charm offensive they hope will shift the EU’s implacable opposition to services being included in a final deal."

There is now a real desperation spreading through the Brexit negotiations and we still have a long way to go.  Of course that is just my opinion .

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Just read this

 

"Philip Hammond and David Davis have made a direct appeal to German business leaders to help them forge a Brexit deal to secure the future of Britain’s financial services.

The chancellor and Brexit secretary travel to Germany on Wednesday on a charm offensive they hope will shift the EU’s implacable opposition to services being included in a final deal."

There is now a real desperation spreading through the Brexit negotiations and we still have a long way to go.  Of course that is just my opinion .

 

They get slated for not doing enough, and they get slated when they go the extra mile! They can't do right for doing wrong in some peoples' eyes!

 

And I doubt very much that this trip is a 'cold call'.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Khun Han

[rickudon]

Quote

The NatCen poll found 52 percent of Britons thought the economy would be worse off after Brexit, versus 46 percent in a similar poll last February. That compared with 58 percent of Scots, polled separately, unchanged from February.

I can understand due to the very poor remain campaign that 54 % of people might have actually believed that leaving would improve the UK economy, but that 48% still believe this after 18 months proving otherwise, beggars belief. Immigration and sovereignty, are cases that can be argued. Better Economy, in the short term, not even on the horizon.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, rickudon said:

I can understand due to the very poor remain campaign that 54 % of people might have actually believed that leaving would improve the UK economy, but that 48% still believe this after 18 months proving otherwise, beggars belief. Immigration and sovereignty, are cases that can be argued. Better Economy, in the short term, not even on the horizon.

This is always the problem, remainers just can't or won't understand that the leave vote was not primarily about the economy. 

[dundee48]

On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 8:49 AM, Khun Han said:

Why on earth do some people relate modern UK with the Empire? Everything has moved on. Britain is a modern country, with problems, which plays a fairly big role for it's relatively small size.

 

Does France get benchmarked against it's Napoleonic era all the time? Etc, etc.

Because that's all they have.

Same as a little pissant  country like belgium thinks its important because it has some euro institution in its borders.

[F4UCorsair]

I note that quite a few posters make an issue out of GB becoming 'small', i.e., not part of the huge EU organization.

 

Take a look at New Zealand,  under 5 million people, smaller than Sydney, and geographically at the end of the world, about as far from any large population country that you could care to name, and it's prosperous, it has no shortage of trading partners, and thriving.

 

Those who didn't like the result of the vote, and demanded another referendum, must be gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands, (more violent) rioting yet to come.

Edited January 11, 2018 by F4UCorsair

[smedly]

16 hours ago, rickudon said:

I can understand due to the very poor remain campaign that 54 % of people might have actually believed that leaving would improve the UK economy, but that 48% still believe this after 18 months proving otherwise, beggars belief. Immigration and sovereignty, are cases that can be argued. Better Economy, in the short term, not even on the horizon.

can I draw your attention to the fact we haven't left yet, it is a process that will hurt for while but should come good eventually 

Edited January 12, 2018 by smedly

[smedly]

10 hours ago, dundee48 said:

Because that's all they have.

Same as a little pissant  country like belgium thinks its important because it has some euro institution in its borders.

considering the size of the UK it does have an enormous world footprint compared to most

[evadgib]

With hindsight it might have been better to extract ourselves completely from the EU a week after the referendum and then negotiated everything that followed from a much stronger position. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by evadgib

[The manic]

On 10/01/2018 at 6:38 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

It is hard to argue against the idea that the UK government is handling this issue in about the worst possible manner. Simply put, they don't seem to have a clue what the hell they are doing; it is shocking that such a major undertaking is occurring with such little preparation or forethought.

 

However, the reason that the UK is in this position is the incredibly foolish decision to leave in the first place. The EU, with all its many, many faults, was beneficial for the UK. 

 

The UK voted to be small. That has ramifications, and I am sad for my British friends that they will be diminished for years/decades to come.

 

GB was diminished a long time ago. It has got worse for everybody in many ways due to the EU, rising violent crime, mass immigration, flawed drug laws, useless police, the betrayal of the middle  classes and the working classes and the politics of spite, envy and hate engendered  by the liberal left. It is now one of those shit hole countries that Trump refers to. It is do depressing to go back there.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 1/10/2018 at 3:49 PM, Khun Han said:

Why on earth do some people relate modern UK with the Empire? Everything has moved on. Britain is a modern country, with problems, which plays a fairly big role for it's relatively small size.

 

Does France get benchmarked against it's Napoleonic era all the time? Etc, etc.

 

Why not relate the EU to the German occupation of Europe under Nazi Germany?

It seems entirely comparable to me.

[rickudon]

On 1/11/2018 at 11:44 PM, nauseus said:

This is always the problem, remainers just can't or won't understand that the leave vote was not primarily about the economy. 

You missed the point - 48% of people actually think Brexit will help the economy. In the short term, that is very unlikely. Both my children in the UK are currently jobless - both their careers were impacted by the Brexit decision (one in banking, and one who was looking for a job in the EU administration). Growth in the UK slowed last year, and until we know where Brexit is going, is going to crawl. Post Brexit? Depends on the deal, but have to assume a difficult time in the first 5 years as changes are made.

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, rickudon said:

You missed the point - 48% of people actually think Brexit will help the economy. In the short term, that is very unlikely. Both my children in the UK are currently jobless - both their careers were impacted by the Brexit decision (one in banking, and one who was looking for a job in the EU administration). Growth in the UK slowed last year, and until we know where Brexit is going, is going to crawl. Post Brexit? Depends on the deal, but have to assume a difficult time in the first 5 years as changes are made.

I don't know where you got that 48% of people actually think Brexit will help the economy stat but I certainly would dispute that. My point is that the remain arguments are always economic ones. Hope your children have better luck soon.