Lease

[greenman2841]

Hi I need some help. I have a house in Ban Chang Rayong I have it on a lease basis 30+30+30 years I also have the yellow and blue books in my name. I would like to sell up due to health issues.

Question is this possible being a lease if not is there anything I can do

Thanks

[Peterw42]

Its not clear if you own the house (through a company) freehold or you have the house leasehold. If its leasehold.its probably a condition of the lease agreement if it can be on-sold etc. I doubt you would have a Blue book in your name unless you are Thai.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Peterw42

[Delight]

Thai law states that the maximum lease term is 30 years.

As I understand it the extra 30 plus 30  are subject to final approval by the owner or descendants of the owner.

If they say no -then no it is.

 

So the Q is how many years are left of the 1st 30 years ?

That is the only thing that you have to sell.

 

In the end I suspect that it is all down to the actual owner

 

Your names in books (blue or yellow) is irrelevant to this circumstance

 

 

[Ginkas]

As stated, blue book and yellow book only show who is living in the house, it has nothing to do with ownership.

Blue books are only issued to Thai nationals.

About a year or so ago a judge ruled on a 30+30+30 lease that it was not legal and "void";

this meant that not only the +30+30 weren't enforceable but that the first 30 years of the lease were not legal.

There were quite a few posts on this forum when the ruling came out.

Without the compliance of the owner you may have nothing to sell.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Ginkas said:

Blue books are only issued to Thai nationals.

Blue books can be issued to foreigners, they just cant be listed in it. Every foreign title condo I have bought , a blue book was issued. The Ampher wanted to see it to issue the yellow book.

[Ginkas]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Blue books can be issued to foreigners, they just cant be listed in it. Every foreign title condo I have bought , a blue book was issued. The Ampher wanted to see it to issue the yellow book.

Absolutely correct.

Sloppy phrasing on my part

[heybuz]

whats on the deed

 

[HHTel]

As has been said, there is only a maximum lease period of 30 years. Renewals after that are open to negotiation.

 

Your lease is registered at the Land Office so easily checked.

[crazykopite]

On 14/01/2018 at 10:33 AM, Peterw42 said:

Its not clear if you own the house (through a company) freehold or you have the house leasehold. If its leasehold.its probably a condition of the lease agreement if it can be on-sold etc. I doubt you would have a Blue book in your name unless you are Thai.

If you have a blue book it would not be in your name it would be most likely in a Company name or the Thai owners name . The yellow book is just a book that confirms that you live in the property it does not mean ownership of the property . My understanding of Thai law is that a lease on a private property can be renewed for 30 years I don’t think this 30+30+30 has ever been tested as the idea was only thought up some 10/12 years ago I don’t even know if it had Government approval.

[JiPe]

Blue books can be issued to foreigners, they just cant be listed in it. Every foreign title condo I have bought , a blue book was issued. The Ampher wanted to see it to issue the yellow book.

Wrong........ foreigners can now be listed in it, my wife and I , both foreigners are listed in it. My lawyers (Thai and foreigner) were very surprised to see this, It was the first time that they saw this.

All leasehold owners in my development have their names listed in Blue Book.

 

[HHTel]

7 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

My understanding of Thai law is that a lease on a private property can be renewed for 30 years I don’t think this 30+30+30 has ever been tested 

It's been tested several times and the result is always the same.  30 + 30 + 30 is not enforceable and the lease will be voided by the court.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed as per forum rules. 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, JiPe said:

Blue books can be issued to foreigners, they just cant be listed in it. Every foreign title condo I have bought , a blue book was issued. The Ampher wanted to see it to issue the yellow book.

Wrong........ foreigners can now be listed in it, my wife and I , both foreigners are listed in it. My lawyers (Thai and foreigner) were very surprised to see this, It was the first time that they saw this.

All leasehold owners in my development have their names listed in Blue Book.

 

If you are not Thai and listed in a blue book, a big mistake has been made. There have been no law changes etc so that foreigners can now be in blue books, Foriegners are listed in the yellow book.

Are you the house master in your blue book ? Is your name listed in Thai or English script.

Its not common for a tennant to even be in posession of the blue book, it stays with the property and is usually in the possession of the owner. Something very unique about your development if tenants hold the blue books and are listed in it.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Peterw42

[khunPer]

On 1/14/2018 at 4:10 AM, greenman2841 said:

...I have it on a lease basis 30+30+30 years I also have the yellow and blue books in my name. I would like to sell up due to health issues.

Question is this possible being a lease if not is there anything I can do

You have a "30-year lease", anything else is illegal.

 

If your 30-year lease agreement allow sub-lease (or like wording for transferring the lease to another name), you can sell the house and the remaining lease period.

 

Blue House Book and Yellow House Book does not state ownership. The Blue Book follows a house, the Yellow Book is address proof for a foreigner. Your can be named as "Master of the Household", and thereby be the one to approve names in the Housebook(s), but that is not stating any ownership.

Edit: A good link about Lease agreements.

Quote

Can I enter into a 90-year land lease agreement?

The maximum lease term in Thailand is 30 years. This term can be renewed, but this will be a new lease and there is no guarantee the lease will be renewed. The 90 year lease agreement (3 x 30 years) includes prepaid renewal options and rights to transfer the property to a freehold title. Currently such leases are considered void and registration will be refused by the land offices due to the latest land office regulations. Some use now a separate addendum to the lease containing similar clauses.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by khunPer

[hgma]

Illegal    http://www.jftb-real-estate-phuket.com/blog/thailand-property-the-lease-of-30-30-30-is-illegal.html

I am not affiliated with this company, and naturally of moderators don't accept i accept the no posting!!

HGMA

[Thaidream]

The person whose name on the Chanot is the owner of the property -a foreigner can be on the chanot for a Condo.   If this is a house/land-  you are not the owner as no foreigner can own land in Thailand.  The only thing you can 'sell' is the remaining years on the 30 year lease. Yes, companies are formed every day with the sole purpose of 'buying' a house.  They are illegal and if challenged- the courts as they already have in other cases -will rule against a foreigner, not because they are a foreigner- because it is against the law.

[SGD]

23 hours ago, HHTel said:

It's been tested several times and the result is always the same.  30 + 30 + 30 is not enforceable and the lease will be voided by the court.

I understand this but is there a specific case, verifiable of course, which declares the original term of 30 years invalid when the second and third terms were struck out ?

 

My understanding is that the +30 options are exactly that, options and it was this part which was not enforceable and thus void but that the original main body lease of 30 years is fine.

[HHTel]

I've heard that if the plus 30 is stated in the original lease document then the whole document (lease) is invalid though I'd have to do a bit of googling to show this.

[Ginkas]

Agree with HHTel.

A case came before the courts in Phuket just over a year ago.

The judge ruled that as the +30+30 was illegal it "voided" the entire lease!

There were a lot of posts, and legal checking, about this at the time.

[khunPer]

On 1/19/2018 at 8:46 AM, SGD said:

I understand this but is there a specific case, verifiable of course, which declares the original term of 30 years invalid when the second and third terms were struck out ?

 

My understanding is that the +30 options are exactly that, options and it was this part which was not enforceable and thus void but that the original main body lease of 30 years is fine.

"Thai Real Estate Lease Leasehold and Rent laws" (Samui For Sale)...

Quote

The term of the lease agreement cannot exceed 30 years

The term of a real estate lease in Thailand may be fixed or periodic. The maximum lease term in Thailand is 30 years (section 540). Any lease of immovable property for a longer period than 30 years in Thailand may only be made by renewal of the lease contract upon its expiration. Based on supreme court judgments it is possible to say that a valid and enforceable renewal can only be made within a period of 3 years prior to the expiration of the first lease term (not 30 years prior to expiration). If for example the lessor and lessee have executed 2 or more consecutive 30-year lease agreements it shall by law be deemed as 1 lease and reduced to 30 years.

 Read more: Real Estate lease term and extensions