we have created a generation of zombies

[Brunolem]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That may be true, but it's irrelevant to the topic.

Angela Merkel was ranked number one woman in the world and then she single handedly destroyed her country and most of Europe, opening the floodgates to the invaders...

Edited January 20, 2018 by Brunolem

[Brunolem]

Just fresh from the printing press!

 

https://hackernoon.com/the-great-simulation-why-quantum-physics-artificial-intelligence-and-eastern-mystics-all-agree-b6c185213a18

[balo]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

BTW expect people like me to laugh at you wearing a <deleted> helmet. The idiots with VR masks in malls are already a source of great amusement.

What can be laughed at in 2018 can be a normal thing in 2050 .   

[Jonah Tenner]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Probably true, but the real question is are we better off that they did?

Serious question.

Most of us on here grew up without anything more advanced than Collossus, and lived successful lives without needing an app to show us where to go.

I used a slide rule until I bought my first programmable scientific calculator when I was 26 years old. Engineering became vastly much simpler with the advent of computers. Planning and design is going much faster, and is much more accurate these days with VR and graphic interfaces. Apps and computers can make working much easier and productive in a lot of jobs. I just do not understand why efficiency should be applied outside work, but then I've always worked to live and not the opposite.

[Air Smiles]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Probably true, but the real question is are we better off that they did?

Serious question.

Most of us on here grew up without anything more advanced than Collossus, and lived successful lives without needing an app to show us where to go.

We can process and access way more information now, so as a result we have more power in our lives than literally any human that has gone before.

 

You might feel contempt for social media and those who use it, but what about your 20,000 posts on this forum alone?

 

Using the technology correctly might even help you to research and gain an appreciation and understanding of David Attenborough beyond your current appraisal which is "He might make nice animal shows on tv, but he still looks like a dork" lol!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, amvet said:

He is using VR which is one step above a smart phone and the future of smart phones and he is not a zombie.  It is completely on topic. 

Plus he has his own app with over 1,000 clips spanning his 60 year career

 

In Your Opinion.

 

You are welcome to live your life plugged into the internet, and I'm not going to tell you not to, but don't expect me not to laugh at you if you walk around in public with a machine on your face, or expect me to get out of your way.

Also, you can tell us how wonderful it is to have your machine turn your lights on and off, but don't expect that to bring me ( ?us ) over to the dark side.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Jonah Tenner said:

I used a slide rule until I bought my first programmable scientific calculator when I was 26 years old. Engineering became vastly much simpler with the advent of computers. Planning and design is going much faster, and is much more accurate these days with VR and graphic interfaces. Apps and computers can make working much easier and productive in a lot of jobs. I just do not understand why efficiency should be applied outside work, but then I've always worked to live and not the opposite.

IMO, all "development" has brought us is a poisoned planet, billions of people living in poverty, the great plastic vortex, and unhappy people.

Families actually used to do things together, like playing board games, now kids hide in bedrooms with their machines and adults just watch tv. Is that "progress"?

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Air Smiles said:

We can process and access way more information now, so as a result we have more power in our lives than literally any human that has gone before.

 

You might feel contempt for social media and those who use it, but what about your 20,000 posts on this forum alone?

 

Using the technology correctly might even help you to research and gain an appreciation and understanding of David Attenborough beyond your current appraisal which is "He might make nice animal shows on tv, but he still looks like a dork" lol!

 

I agree with all you say, but.........................

 

Yes, we have more information than ever before, but, did it make us happier people?

Worth noting that porn is a significant part of the information age.

 

I have probably expressed rather less that admiration for those that use "social" media, but that is more about how so many are so isolated from other people, that they imagine they have thousands of "friends" that they never talk to face to face, and think they should tell everyone what they had for dinner.

Yes, I post a lot, on TVF, but I don't pretend I have any "friends" on here, and it's a more interesting way of passing the time than watching tv all day. I suppose I could play patience all day, but I don't really want to.

My days of going out and doing something better are sadly over, but 20 years ago I never did more on the internet than send e mails to people I actually knew.

That makes me rather amazed, as it's only taken 20 years to make huge changes to western society. Before internet/ after internet- completely different society. Previously, such major societal changes probably took hundreds of years to come about.

 

Before I research David Attenborough, I'd have to have a reason to care enough about him to do so.

I have no problem researching subjects I do want to know about. It's not like it's hard to do so. However, it's not true that everything is on the internet. Before 1980, a lot of stuff I want to know about is non existent on the internet.

[Brunolem]

11 hours ago, Jonah Tenner said:

I used a slide rule until I bought my first programmable scientific calculator when I was 26 years old. Engineering became vastly much simpler with the advent of computers. Planning and design is going much faster, and is much more accurate these days with VR and graphic interfaces. Apps and computers can make working much easier and productive in a lot of jobs. I just do not understand why efficiency should be applied outside work, but then I've always worked to live and not the opposite.44

Certainly, but faster and easier are not everything...what about better?

For example, nowadays cars conceived by computer look all the same...boring!

Weren't hand designed cars from the 50s and 60s much nicer?

 

More generally, why is it that the same persons who become rich thanks to technology like so much to spend their money on antiquities, on old cars, on shoes and clothes made by hand and so on?

 

Isn't that contradictory, or is it maybe that these same people are fully aware of the low quality of today's products made by machines?

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Certainly, but faster and easier are not everything...what about better?

For example, nowadays cars conceived by computer look all the same...boring!

Weren't hand designed cars from the 50s and 60s much nicer?

 

More generally, why is it that the same persons who become rich thanks to technology like so much to spend their money on antiquities, on old cars, on shoes and clothes made by hand and so on?

 

Isn't that contradictory, or is it maybe that these same people are fully aware of the low quality of today's products made by machines?

I think that it  is an unmixed blessing  that Henry David Thoreau on his journey  to Walden accidentally lost his Galaxy XX1 which fell out of  his top pocket whilst peering over the bridge at Cambridge,Mass.

 

Unable to send selfies-which  he dearly loved  to do- he actually had to write a book.It is true  that Thoreau remarked after  the ordeal:"I really wanted to talk about myself ;endlessly,needlessly,but alas,my smart phone  was gone..."

[amvet]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO, all "development" has brought us is a poisoned planet, billions of people living in poverty, the great plastic vortex, and unhappy people.

Families actually used to do things together, like playing board games, now kids hide in bedrooms with their machines and adults just watch tv. Is that "progress"?

First thing you need to do is get some basic education so you can intelligently discuss the subject. 

In 1820, the vast majority of people lived in extreme poverty and only a tiny elite enjoyed higher standards of living. Economic growth over the last 200 years completely transformed our world, with poverty falling continuously over the last two centuries. This is even more remarkable when we consider that the population increased 7-fold over the same time. In a world without economic growth, an increase in the population would result in less and less income for everyone. A 7-fold increase in the world population would be potentially enough to drive everyone into extreme poverty. Yet, the exact opposite happened. In a time of unprecedented population growth, we managed to lift more and more people out of poverty.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty

Edited January 21, 2018 by amvet

[amvet]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree with all you say, but.........................

 

Yes, we have more information than ever before, but, did it make us happier people?

Worth noting that porn is a significant part of the information age.

 

I have probably expressed rather less that admiration for those that use "social" media, but that is more about how so many are so isolated from other people, that they imagine they have thousands of "friends" that they never talk to face to face, and think they should tell everyone what they had for dinner.

Yes, I post a lot, on TVF, but I don't pretend I have any "friends" on here, and it's a more interesting way of passing the time than watching tv all day. I suppose I could play patience all day, but I don't really want to.

My days of going out and doing something better are sadly over, but 20 years ago I never did more on the internet than send e mails to people I actually knew.

That makes me rather amazed, as it's only taken 20 years to make huge changes to western society. Before internet/ after internet- completely different society. Previously, such major societal changes probably took hundreds of years to come about.

 

Before I research David Attenborough, I'd have to have a reason to care enough about him to do so.

I have no problem researching subjects I do want to know about. It's not like it's hard to do so. However, it's not true that everything is on the internet. Before 1980, a lot of stuff I want to know about is non existent on the internet.

It is there you don't know how to search. 

[amvet]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In Your Opinion.

 

You are welcome to live your life plugged into the internet, and I'm not going to tell you not to, but don't expect me not to laugh at you if you walk around in public with a machine on your face, or expect me to get out of your way.

Also, you can tell us how wonderful it is to have your machine turn your lights on and off, but don't expect that to bring me ( ?us ) over to the dark side.

The dark side is folks who live in ignorance of the advances technology has brought us.  The world has improved.  Less poverty.  Longer life spans.  No WWII and 50 million dead.  The advances since I was born have been the greatest in the history of man.  The dark side is the world of my father which killed half the world because of ignorance.  The great generation couldn't figure out how to avoid a war that killed 50 million people.  Abraham Lincoln couldn't stop slavery without a war that killed half the American men of fighting age (no other country had a war to stop slavery they all did it peacefully).  The past is full of dark mistakes and death and misery.    

Edited January 21, 2018 by amvet

[Odysseus123]

13 minutes ago, amvet said:

The dark side is folks who live in ignorance of the advances technology has brought us.  The world has improved.  Less poverty.  Longer life spans.  No WWII and 50 million dead.  The advances since I was born have been the greatest in the history of man.  The dark side is the world of my father which killed half the world because of ignorance.  The great generation couldn't figure out how to avoid a war that killed 50 million people.  Abraham Lincoln couldn't stop slavery without a war that killed half the American men of fighting age (no other country had a war to stop slavery they all did it peacefully).  The past is full of dark mistakes and death and misery.    

Whatever..

 

See Montgolfier and his balloon.

 

Lincoln didn't stop slavery anyway (as much as I  admire the man)

 

See 13th Amendment.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Odysseus123

[JLCrab]

Shortly before he died at the age of 107, the renowned Broadway musicial producer George Abbot was asked what was the biggest change he had seen during his long career in the theater.

 

He paused for a moment and then said: "Electricity."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/06/theater/abbott-is-remembered-in-the-colorful-spirit-of-broadway.html

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Shortly before he died at the age of 107, the renowned Broadway musicial producer George Abbot was asked what was the biggest change he had seen during his long career in the theater.

 

He paused for a moment and then said: "Electricity."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/06/theater/abbott-is-remembered-in-the-colorful-spirit-of-broadway.html

 

 

 

 

But I  prefer J.Robert Oppenheimer..

 

"Now I am become Death,the Destroyer of Worlds..."

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Odysseus123

[amvet]

21 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Shortly before he died at the age of 107, the renowned Broadway musicial producer George Abbot was asked what was the biggest change he had seen during his long career in the theater.

 

He paused for a moment and then said: "Electricity."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/06/theater/abbott-is-remembered-in-the-colorful-spirit-of-broadway.html

Yes, we all used to live on the darkside

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

The dark side is folks who live in ignorance of the advances technology has brought us.  The world has improved.  Less poverty.  Longer life spans. 

Not sure if there's less poverty, more people in the world means more poverty but maybe not in your current location.

Life spans have remained the same for the past 2,000 years (did you mean Life Expectancy?), infant mortality has changed, well, the way they die is different.

Now we kill them inside the womb and don't include then in the death statistics, before they used to die after birth so were included.

 

Anyway, in the USA the increase in life expectancy between 1907 and 2007 was largely due to a decreasing infant mortality rate, which was 9.99 percent in 1907; 2.63 percent in 1957; and 0.68 percent in 2007.

 

Now if we add in abortions Vs births (900k Vs 4000k in USA 2015) we would be back to a 20% infant mortality rate, which is double the infant mortality rate of 1907.

Edited January 21, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[amvet]

13 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Not sure if there's less poverty, more people in the world means more poverty but maybe not in your current location.

Life spans have remained the same for the past 2,000 years (did you mean Life Expectancy?), infant mortality has changed, well, the way they die is different.

Now we kill them inside the womb and don't include then in the death statistics, before they used to die after birth so were included.

 

Anyway, in the USA the increase in life expectancy between 1907 and 2007 was largely due to a decreasing infant mortality rate, which was 9.99 percent in 1907; 2.63 percent in 1957; and 0.68 percent in 2007.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Average age of death in UK 200 years ago 40 now 80.  In 1820, the vast majority of people lived in extreme poverty and only a tiny elite enjoyed higher standards of living. Economic growth over the last 200 years completely transformed our world, with poverty falling continuously over the last two centuries.  1850 a young man could expect to live to 60.1. In 2004, that same man could expect to live to 76.7.

Edited January 21, 2018 by amvet

[MaeJoMTB]

3 minutes ago, amvet said:

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Average age of death in UK 200 years ago 40 now 80.  In 1820, the vast majority of people lived in extreme poverty and only a tiny elite enjoyed higher standards of living. Economic growth over the last 200 years completely transformed our world, with poverty falling continuously over the last two centuries.  1850 a young man could expect to live to 60.1. In 2004, that same man could expect to live to 76.7.

I'm sorry, I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

[amvet]

5 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I'm sorry, I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

1850 a young man could expect to live to 60.1. In 2004, that same man could expect to live to 76.7.

Explain what?   There is about a 20 year increase in years lived ignoring infant mortality rates.  Now do you get it? 

Poverty has decreased per capita.  Fewer people live in poverty today than in 1800. 

 

The world 200 years ago was not heaven it was He^^

Edited January 21, 2018 by amvet

[MaeJoMTB]

17 minutes ago, amvet said:

1850 a young man could expect to live to 60.1. In 2004, that same man could expect to live to 76.7.

Forget 1850 and 2004, I don't have the mortality stats for those years.

Let's do 1907 and 2015.

Presumably your young man was a fetus at some point.

In 1907 USA he had a 0.3% chance of dying in utero, but a 10% chance of dying as an infant.

In 2015 USA he had a 20% chance of dying in utero, but a o.06% chance of dying as an infant.

 

So your USA 2015 fetus has 2x the chance of dying before reaching maturity, than your USA 1907 fetus.

Edited January 21, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[amvet]

11 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Forget 1850 and 2004, I don't have the mortality stats for those years.

Let's do 1907 and 2015.

Presumably your young man was a fetus at some point.

In 1907 USA he had a 0.3% chance of dying in utero, but a 10% chance of dying as an infant.

In 2015 USA he had a 20% chance of dying in utero, but a o.06% chance of dying as an infant.

 

So your USA 2015 fetus has 2x the chance of dying before reaching maturity, than your USA 1907 fetus.

200 years ago people did not live as long as today by a long shot measured from any age.  More people lived in abject poverty 200 years ago than today.  The reason people live longer to day and better today is technology including smart phones.  If you got shot on a battlefield 100 years ago you died.  If you got shot in a duel 100 years ago you died.  Today if you get shot chances are you live.  Why? Communication and antibiotics and advances in trauma centers.  There is nothing good about the good old days.  Women smelled bad and were not near as friendly as today.  Birth control changed sex habits and medical advances solved a lot of odor problems and the smart phone have made it 100% easier to hook up.  Hooray for today. Call em zombies or starfish I don't believe it. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by amvet

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, amvet said:

200 years ago people did not live as long as today by a long shot measured from any age.  More people lived in abject poverty 200 years ago than today.  The reason people live longer to day and better today is technology including smart phones.  If you got shot on a battlefield 100 years ago you died.  If you got shot in a duel 100 years ago you died.  Today if you get shot chances are you live.  Why? Communication and antibiotics and advances in trauma centers.  There is nothing good about the good old days.  Women smelled bad and were not near as friendly as today.  Birth control changed sex habits and medical advances solved a lot of odor problems and the smart phone have made it 100% easier to hook up.  Hooray for today. Call em zombies or starfish I don't believe it. 

Gad...women smelled bad eh..goodness gracious me.

 

Perhaps in a pre gasoline world they might have thought that we stank-which we do.

 

Be that as it may..100 years ago was 1918-which,no matter how ghastly it was,did not  include a surfeit of duelling..

 

Are you Thai?The abysmal knowledge of history and all that....

[Brunolem]

38 minutes ago, amvet said:

Fewer people live in poverty today than in 1800. 

 

Right and wrong...depends...

 

In 1800, the world population reached 1 billion for the first time.

Today, among more than 7 billion people, there are more than 1 billion living in poverty.

 

So, in absolute value, there are more people living in poverty today than in 1800.

 

Now, if you use a calculation in percentage, the proportion of poor people in the total population is lower today than it was in 1800.

 

[amvet]

4 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Gad...women smelled bad eh..goodness gracious me.

 

Perhaps in a pre gasoline world they might have thought that we stank-which we do.

 

Be that as it may..100 years ago was 1918-which,no matter how ghastly it was,did not  include a surfeit of duelling..

 

Are you Thai?The abysmal knowledge of history and all that....

Always amazed how people with no knowledge of history think others are as ill informed as themselves. 

The first antiperspirant, which thwarts both sweat-production and bacterial growth, was called Everdry and launched in 1903.  When did women start shaving underarms and legs?  Do you know?  Penicillin has saved between 80 and 200 million lives. 
 

[Odysseus123]

Just now, amvet said:

Always amazed how people with no knowledge of history think others are as ill informed as themselves. 

The first antiperspirant, which thwarts both sweat-production and bacterial growth, was called Everdry and launched in 1903.  When did women start shaving underarms and legs?  Do you know?  Penicillin has saved between 80 and 200 million lives. 
 

Sorry buddy but your dash to Wiki did you no good..

 

So...once again..

 

I am Australian..are you Thai?

[amvet]

Look at the data and decide yourself. 

[MaeJoMTB]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Sorry buddy but your dash to Wiki did you no good..

So...once again..

I am Australian..are you Thai?

I suspect suffering from dementia, not much point living long if you can't remember living it.

Edited January 21, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[amvet]

14 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Sorry buddy but your dash to Wiki did you no good..

 

So...once again..

 

I am Australian..are you Thai?

Women smelled bad in the good old days.  Many soldiers and other who were  shot before penicillin and modern techniques died of their wounds.  You wrote, " The abysmal knowledge of history."  Please point out my historical errors. As the university I graduated from is ranked 21 in the world as is the Australian National University I assume you graduated from there?

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by amvet