Surreal

[12DrinkMore]

I have decided the whole thing is incomprehensible.

 

In the last 7 days no less than 50 new craptos have been launched.

 

https://coinmarketcap.com/new/

 

So how much of all these massive market caps are convertible to real money?

 

Let's take a few samples.

 

Aurora, 1 day, USD 12 milliom.

OneRoot, 4 days, USD 16 million.

Internet Node, 4 days, USD 94 million

Telcoin, 5 days, 131 million

 

Somehow I really do not think that in one day (or three months if you go from the start) the happy owners of Aurora

 

https://auroradao.com/about/

 

have managed to create an asset worth USD 12 million. Along with all of the others I clicked on, they have a few things in common,

 

- lot of impressive jargon

- bunch of young hopefuls

- a wonderful mission statement

- going to revolutionise and change the world, "disruptiv technology" pops up regularly

- no actual real customers with contracts.

 

But they do have an interesting playground, which is fortunately to a large extent totally isolated from real economies. There is no way that all those billions can ever leak out.

 

The crapto-fans like converting all their activity into USD's. In the last 24 hours internally they claim USD 45 billion in transactions. This is running at around 16 trillion per annum, or roughly the same size as the US gdp,

 

Does anybody seriously think that a USD in the Crapto-World is anywhere near equivalent to a Greenback used in the daily buying and selling activities of 330 million people?

 

The fallacy lies in the assumption that using the dollars as a unit of accounting implies that it is the same dollar that the USD uses. Zimbawe also uses dollars.

 

(I am not bashing the bitters, just trying to understand what it is all about. So before you whack me with the incessant an hominem nonsense, please try to think of something interesting that might help all those struggling to find a handle to hold onto)

 

 

[kekalot]

market cap is the current price per coin multiplied by the number of coins in circulation

 

example: Bitcoin: $11,690.90 per coin and 16,811,900 coins = $196,546,241,710 market cap

 

absolutely impossible to sell even 10% of those coins at this price, there are not enough buyers, the price would drop quickly until the 10% are sold (plus some people that are panic selling)

in fact you would not even be able to sell 1% of the coins (168,119 of them) at current price because there are not enough buyers

 

https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD

 

check on the left side and let me know if you ever see anything over 1000 BTC (you won't). green for people buying, red is people selling

 

and even if in theory it dropped to 5000$, the market cap would be 84,059,500,000$ and still mean nothing because within a few days the price would skyrocket back to the current selling price because people are not willing to sell under $11,690

 

it means absolutely nothing for crypto

 

if someone created 1,000,000,000 circulation alt coin and sold them ALL at 10 cents each to me, it creates a 100 million market cap but if I bought all those coins and decided that i'm not selling one of them under 1$ then it's now 10x that and can only go up since no one in their right mind would sell it under the price they paid for.

 

no offense but you could have found that by yourself if you bothered to Google what you seem to want to diss

 

market cap doesn't mean squat.

[punchjudy]

it should be called "the great crypto swindle"

 

don't you love how they call them "coins"

[rufanuf]

8 minutes ago, punchjudy said:

it should be called "the great crypto swindle"

 

don't you love how they call them "coins"

Sadly its Fiat Currency that is the greatest swindle in the history of mankinds creation of currency.  Bitcoins value has grown with each passing year, as it gradually becomes apparent its hard to "corrupt". Like all currencies though in the end its value is not attached to anything physical hard to see how it wont go to zero...just like dollars, gbps, euros and all other fiats. An acre of land will always be an acre of land, an ounce of gold will always be an ounce of gold...maybe a piece of blockchain will always be a peace of blockchain? But its such a new innovation Id like to wait 100,000 years before passing judgement.

[SteveB2]

 

“Never invest in a business you cannot understand.”

                                                                                                                  Warren Buffett 

[Suradit69]

20 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

I have decided the whole thing is incomprehensible.

And you thought you'd find enlightenment here at TV??

Some of the best financial minds in the  world can't get their heads around it all. 

 

20 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

Somehow I really do not think that in one day (or three months if you go from the start) the happy owners of Aurora have managed to create an asset worth USD 12 million.

Something, anything is "worth" (or at least priced at) what someone else is willing to pay for it.  In the year 2000 Enron had a market cap of US$60 billion. It was all smoke and mirrors. The per share price reached $91. One year later you might have found someone to buy your shares for US$1  each and the company was worth $ 0 or less.

 

The value of "real money," as you quaintly call it, depends on the faith and imagination of the people willing to hold it. Most major currencies have fallen in value when you consider what things you could trade them in for.  US$1 could buy a whole lot more stuff years ago than it can now and it was supposedly backed by gold and silver. Now it's backed solely on the faith that the idiots running the country don't totally destroy it.

 

Some cryptos will undoubtedly cease to exist in time. Some may be around for a long, long time, but their prices in terms of "real money" will depend on what people are willing to pay for them or sell them for ... same as any other asset or pieces of paper with fancy artwork on them.

 

Here's some "real money" that wouldn't buy you a loaf of bread and an example of why some people in some dodgy countries would love to turn their real money into cryptos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Suradit69

[wombat]

squeeze that lemon till the juice runs down your leg.

[12DrinkMore]

17 hours ago, kekalot said:

market cap doesn't mean squat.

 

not quite.

 

It does set the perception in the minds of the gullible that there is a solid and very substantial bunch of assets supporting the whole edifice. Currently measured at $588,015,605,449.

 

The numbers are impressive and people, being on the whole fairly stupid in matters financial, want a piece of the action.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by 12DrinkMore

[MrPatrickThai]

The only crypto bashers are the one who missed out.

 

I made a lot of money, even thought I only started buying 1 year ago, buying  Ethereum, Ripple XRP, OMG, then later KNC. I've taken out 20 x what I invested and still have much more than I put in. It's a great feeling to be playing with "house money" in  which the house paid off my mortgage and new car! 

Edited January 20, 2018 by MrPatrickThai

[lkn]

47 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

Sadly its Fiat Currency that is the greatest swindle in the history of mankinds creation of currency.  Bitcoins value has grown with each passing year, as it gradually becomes apparent its hard to "corrupt". Like all currencies though in the end its value is not attached to anything physical hard to see how it wont go to zero...just like dollars, gbps, euros and all other fiats

There is a lot of price manipulation going on at the various unregulated exchanges, so I wouldn’t say it is hard to “corrupt” cryptocurrencies. Much easier to manipulate than regulated currencies.

 

As for fiat currencies not being attached to anything physical; they are tied to the economy. This works because we have international trade, so calling it a swindle makes no sense.

 

The ZWD shows that the system works exactly as it should: the land reform caused a major loss of productivity, limiting export, thus limiting the demand for ZWD, causing the value of ZWD to fall. The government tried to compensate by just printing more money, and the resulting hyperinflation showed that you can’t do that (as most people already knew).

 

[DDbkh]

14 minutes ago, lkn said:

There is a lot of price manipulation going on at the various unregulated exchanges, so I wouldn’t say it is hard to “corrupt” cryptocurrencies. Much easier to manipulate than regulated currencies.

 

As for fiat currencies not being attached to anything physical; they are tied to the economy. This works because we have international trade, so calling it a swindle makes no sense.

 

The ZWD shows that the system works exactly as it should: the land reform caused a major loss of productivity, limiting export, thus limiting the demand for ZWD, causing the value of ZWD to fall. The government tried to compensate by just printing more money, and the resulting hyperinflation showed that you can’t do that (as most people already knew).

 

The latest problem for these crypto currencies is that banks refuse to accept funds from cryptos because they rightly fear money laundering. 

[Dario]

Just now, DDbkh said:

The latest problem for these crypto currencies is that banks refuse to accept funds from cryptos because they rightly fear money laundering. 

Can you back up your claim, please?

[MrPatrickThai]

6 minutes ago, DDbkh said:

The latest problem for these crypto currencies is that banks refuse to accept funds from cryptos because they rightly fear money laundering. 

The whole point is avoiding banks.

[Enoon]

25 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

not quite.

 

It does set the perception in the minds of the gullible that there is a solid and very substantial bunch of assets supporting the whole edifice. Currently measured at $588,015,605,449.

 

The numbers are impressive and people, being on the whole fairly stupid in matters financial, want a piece of the action.

 

 

 

Hopefully it will only be the "investors" who suffer.

 

Those who bought in at the start and sold last year have every reason to feel very pleased with themselves.

 

As were those who did the same before:

 

Examples of Asset Bubbles

 

 

 

[Dario]

37 minutes ago, Dario said:

Can you back up your claim, please?

I just received the following article on my screen from The Economic Times in India. This might be part of your answer.

[chicowoodduck]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

The only crypto bashers are the one who missed out.

 

I made a lot of money, even thought I only started buying 1 year ago, buying  Ethereum, Ripple XRP, OMG, then later KNC. I've taken out 20 x what I invested and still have much more than I put in. It's a great feeling to be playing with "house money" in  which the house paid off my mortgage and new car! 

I hate that feeling when a TV know it all continues to blow smoke up my arse.....try to keep the scheme rolling....and I will keep on dreaming the good dream....???

[12DrinkMore]

40 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Hopefully it will only be the "investors" who suffer.

 

Those who bought in at the start and sold last year have every reason to feel very pleased with themselves.

 

As were those who did the same before:

 

Examples of Asset Bubbles

 

 

Those who bought and sold last year probably fall into the class of "investors", broadly interpreted.

 

The majority of newbies jumping into the cauldron from September 2017 onwards are gamblers. These are the guys that are being scammed and scalped. They are also not the guys you see posting if they are losing.

 

If somebody makes 500% profit all the world has to be told. 

 

If they lose 80% nobody wants to admit it.

[MrPatrickThai]

45 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Hopefully it will only be the "investors" who suffer.

 

 

 

 

 

Not very nice.

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, chicowoodduck said:

I hate that feeling when a TV know it all continues to blow smoke up my arse.....try to keep the scheme rolling....and I will keep on dreaming the good dream....???

Rather rude. I'm not a now-it-all. I know nothing about cryptos but saw a low loss high gain opportunity.  It is a bit like gambling but so is my mutual fund which got 18% last year. much nicer feeling to see 100% gains in a day.

[Golden Triangle]

It seems to me that there are plenty of people having a dabble with cryptos and some have made a tasty profit, right place right time syndrome, nothing more than that, but it is very strange that although many of them diss fiat currencies they just cant wait to convert their 'play money' (my term) back into REAL money ??

[Wake Up]

If North Korea can steal Bitcoin electronically then boasting of  Bitcoin safety is not a great boast.

 

All currencies have risks and congrats to those that have bet on it and gotten out. But like the winners in Vegas it is hard to leave the table with winnings. 

[taiping]

PLEASE 12DrinkMore, if you find cryptos "incomprehensible" then just don't get involved with it. Simple as that. Since you don't understand, then what's the point of posting your thoughts on TV? In order to support your ego? Why?

[tryasimight]

16 minutes ago, taiping said:

PLEASE 12DrinkMore, if you find cryptos "incomprehensible" then just don't get involved with it. Simple as that. Since you don't understand, then what's the point of posting your thoughts on TV? In order to support your ego? Why?

They way I read the OP was that he was asking for help in understanding the system.  All he got in reply was the usual jargon by people trying to uptalk the idea and hopefully increase the price of the crypts. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by tryasimight

[tryasimight]

20 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Rather rude. I'm not a now-it-all. I know nothing about cryptos but saw a low loss high gain opportunity.  It is a bit like gambling but so is my mutual fund which got 18% last year. much nicer feeling to see 100% gains in a day.

I bet there are a few people who are not too happy after the last few days ...they didn't make a 100% gain. 

 

For all the talk of the money people are making ( and regardless of the handful of people who may accept cryptos as payment) they have zero value until you dispose of them. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by tryasimight

[taiping]

1 minute ago, tryasimight said:

They way I read the OP was that he was asking for help in understanding the system.  All he got in reply was the usual jargon by people trying to uptalk the idea and hopefully increase the price of the crypts. 

There are many YouTube videos which would educate him on cryptos. Why ask TVers, since as you say they might be "uptalking" crypros? Anyone interested can find out for themselves, using a little diligence.

[tryasimight]

2 minutes ago, taiping said:

There are many YouTube videos which would educate him on cryptos. Why ask TVers, since as you say they might be "uptalking" crypros? Anyone interested can find out for themselves, using a little diligence.

Isn't that the very idea of a forum.... To pose questions and/ or opinion? 

You never know there may be an honest person who admits he lost a lot gambling on the crypto market. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by tryasimight

[PerkinsCuthbert]

It's already over. You might have made serious money if you'd jumped in at 12.01am but doing so now is pure gambling, with the added frisson that any day governments will effectively neuter crypotos.

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

I bet there are a few people who are not too happy after the last few days 

I bet there are many who bought at the low and are now laughing. 

 

I even did a bit of day trading as the price was so good at it's low a few days ago, seeing 30-60% increases in ONE DAY!.

[taiping]

Just now, tryasimight said:

Isn't that the very idea of a forum.... To pose questions and/ or opinion? 

Yes, I agree, but it's clear that the OP has a negative opinion on cryptos and finds it all "incomprehensible." If anyone is looking for sensible advice on TV then they are living in a parallel universe. There are much better resources.

 

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I bet there are many who bought at the low and are now laughing. 

 

I even did a bit of day trading as the price was so good at it's low a few days ago, seeing 30-60% increases in ONE DAY!.

If you made a profit..... Someone else lost, that's the way gambling works.

Unless you are Warren Buffet it may be you next time.