Organic Fertilizers, Compost, Mulch Etc. In Large Bags

[Smithson]

We've just moved into a new house and are working on the garden. I need quite a bit of organic fertilizers compost, mulch etc. so I want to get some decent sized bags. I'm particularly interested in fertilizers that come in pellets. In Australia there's a product called Dynamic Lifter, this is pellets made from chicken manure.

There's a large gardening/outdoor center near Chatuchuk that sells huge sacks of ground coconut husks. They're only 60B ea. This stuff is excellent for use on pots or garden beds. Has anyone else used it?

[ewelve]

We've just moved into a new house and are working on the garden. I need quite a bit of organic fertilizers compost, mulch etc. so I want to get some decent sized bags. I'm particularly interested in fertilizers that come in pellets. In Australia there's a product called Dynamic Lifter, this is pellets made from chicken manure.

There's a large gardening/outdoor center near Chatuchuk that sells huge sacks of ground coconut husks. They're only 60B ea. This stuff is excellent for use on pots or garden beds. Has anyone else used it?

[/quo

[ewelve]

Sorry about the previous. Mate, my friend who used to work as a fertiliser advisor in the Sydney Botanical Gardens, says after testing all known fertilisers the best results by far came from a worm compost mix, this stuff mixed with good soil or manure (not pig or chicken for some reason), gave the best results and the beauty was it was all organic, there was a man selling organic worm compost in an earlier thread, i got to talk to him, poor sod stopped writing on here because certain people started to use obscure points from obscure sites to down cry his product refusing to listen to what he said in his posts, im sure someone can find the thread for you. My advice to you is get a small bag of this stuff and try it out as i have done dont listen to people who have never even tried it and slag it off, the results i got were bloody fantastic, proof undeniable and a onlya few baht to find this out.

[chownah]

I was one of the posters that disagreed with the worm guy. I listened to what he had to say. I didn't "slag off" his product. I didn't use "obscure" points from "obscure sites". Most of the sites I referenced were pro worm compost and I only used them to establish application rates and what the cost was for the recommended application. I think that worm compost is a great product from what I've heard although I've never tried it....only I think it is expensive for most applications. I find that you get better value for money with cow manure. I think if you check what worm castings cost and go to a farming community and find what you can get cow manure for you will find that you will get a better deal with the cow manure. I could be wrong and I don't really care if anyone buys worm castings or not...entirely up to them...they are reportedly a great product and they are organic...so go for it....its your garden, your money, and your time......its up to you!!!!!

Chownah

[brahmburgers]

Worm castings are very good. There is also cricket poop (I jest not!). There's a guy doing it in the States - where most innovations originate. I think he feeds the crickets corn or cornmeal. If anyone could shed light on this, I'd like to hear about it. I bet it's great stuff.

Thais are not familiar with compost - but one simple way to make it is to get cut grass (field grass works better than rice stalks) and make as big a pile of the stuff as you can. Then water it liberally. A week later, when the pile is half it's original size, turn it inside out. There are no real pitchforks in Thailand, so you'll have to make your own or use something similar, like a rake. Water it again. Repaeat this process over a couple months and you should wind up with grayish/brownish compost. Excellent for mixing half and half with regular soil. It doesn't add much essential elements (N, K, of P), but it aerates it and makes it 'friable' (not in the dictionary, but it's a real word). Your plants will thrive, as their roots grow vigorously with all that tilth. Labor intensive - yes indeed. Work outdoors with your shirt off and give the onlooking gals a giggle.

[ewelve]

Right then Mr Chowna, lets let the others in the forum decide, if memory serves, you put the application rates at up to 320kgs /Rai and any PC owning reader can put 'worm cast application rates' or similar in their search engine and will come up with a multitude of sites, i personally like 'Revital', and in every site you will find a huge difference from what you came up with some sites have rates of 30kgs/Rai up, bloody funny that eh?. If you examine what the worm guy said and you will find he says that you can use just castings but advises a combination of manure and castings, my friend at Sydney Bottanical told me about an Argentinian delegation coming to a seminar on worm casts and Mr Chowna i know they have a cow or two there.

Let me spell it out, worm cast fertiliser does a different job than just manure, if your happy with manure stick with it, dont trawl the web to find an obscure site, and it was, to back up your argument, we know you are a clever guy already, no need to try and pull someone to pieces to make yourself look knowledgeable.

Finally Mr Chowna, with reference your sanctimonious and condescending comment about me 'going out into the farming community', i was born a bloody farmer. Please dont come back bleating to me with a barrage of clever words, the proof is out there for anyone to find and i dont need you, in your struggle for forum supremacy, to start an argument, personally i above that.

Thank you for your time, Regards Ewelve

[chownah]

Ewelve,

You wrote: "Let me spell it out, worm cast fertiliser does a different job than just manure,...."

I have an open mind about our difference of opinion. I'm wanting to learn about this "different job" that worm castings perform. What is it and how does it work? Please "spell it out". The rate of 30kg per rai is equivalent to 20 grams per square metre...about a handful per square metre....how does this very small amount of material condition a square metre?...how much good does it do. If I take run of the mill rice paddy and apply worm castings at this rate can I grow corn there?...or peppers?....what exactly will 20 grams of worm castings per square metre do for me? My estimation is that 20 grams would maybe be enough for a small flower pot...but I don't know.

Chownah

Edited January 20, 2007 by chownah

[Pink Mist]

make your own composter

use chicken droppings mix in water, leave in sun for a while and apply to ground, use a lot of mulch.

[Smithson]

I would be interested in info on the worm castings. Thais are familar with compost, I used to make it from leaves and grass clippings when we lived on a large property. I think they stopped making it when chemical fertilizers were introduced.

Has anyone used the ground coconut fibre? This stuff is great whether used in pots or on garden beds. It has excellent water retention without becoming waterlogged.

[ewelve]

Oh dear, here we go again, last time for me im bored, mate i assume you can read, i sincerely hope so and im not mocking you, its just you seem to totally ignore what other people say, i mentioned my favourite site on this subject is a site called 'revital' its very informative and explains all so if i can understand it a brainy fellow like you must be able to and it has a few experts in this field attesting to the 'remarkable' results of this stuff at the bottom of the page, go on spoil yourself have a look then should you feel like stepping up a class and want an argument with them knock yourself out. Mate i have nothing against you except your attitude towards certain things that come up on here and for some reason you want to ask for the in and outs of triviality and ignore the main theme. Stop fighting against advice other people give, if they are wrong i bloody sure it was given with the best intent and if you genuinely know its not right say so then and only then, stop saying things like i cant see that" or "i could be wrong but" look at the last three words you said in your last note "I dont know". Mate i would take you for a beer if i found you, no worries and i dont kiss arse if you knew me you would know that in a second but bugger mate look at the damage you caused to the poor sod selling the stuff, definitely not deserved.

[ewelve]

See how thick i am, i for got to address you Mr Chowna, i apologise. Regards Ewelve

[chownah]

Smithson,

Since you expressed interest in finding out more about worm castings and worm compost I suggest that you take a look at the site that ewleve recommended. It has alot of information about why worm castings and worm compost are good products (from all that I have heard although I haven't actually tried it myself).

http://www.revitalfertilisers.co.nz/index....geID=2145820807

It is a bit of a tricky read though in that in presenting the benefits of the worm product it does not clearly state what it is comparing the worm product to and it does not clearly state in most cases what the application rate was or the actual amount of benefit received. I also suggest that you look around a bit at other sites and try to find some that are not representing people in the industry.

Revital has another page that I could find on the web:

http://www.revitalfertilisers.co.nz/files/....indd2005-6.pdf

This one has better information about actually applying the product and the results achieved. It gives application rates for thier worm product for growning maize (corn) and grain. They recommend 1-2 tonnes per hectare for use as a soil conditioner and 3-4 tonnes per hectare as a base fertilizer. 1 tonne per hectare is equivalent to 160 kilograms per rai and 4 tonnes per hectare is equivalent to 640 kilograms per rai. The estimate of 320 kilograms per rai which ewelve has attributed to me (I can't actually remember what I posted previously) seems to fit nicely near the middle of their recommended application rates and a hugely larger amount than the 30 kilograms per rai that ewelve attributes to other internet sites. For your use in a garden you might note that 1 tonne per hectare is equivalent to 100 grams per square metre and 4 tonnes per hectare is equivalent to 400 grams per square metre......this should help you determine how much product to purchase.

I agree totally with ewelve's first post where he recommends buying some worm product and trying it out to see how it goes. I also recommend buying some aged manure (or fresh manure and then waiting a few months for it to age) and trying it out to see how that goes. My guess is that kilo per kilo the results will be approximately the same...but that for baht per baht the manure will far outperform the worm product....but of course this depends on the price for each....it sounds like you live in town and cow manure might be real expensive for you to buy.

Fact is, if there was a convenient place for me to obtain a commercial worm product I would buy a small amount and try it out.....on the other hand since I use alot of manure on my garden I already have worms in my soil busily making wormcastings and worm compost out of the organic material which I put in my garden. In all of the places that I have ever gardened (and in most places everywhere except for very sandy soils so I have heard) worms will naturally appear in a plot when enough organic material has been worked into the soil.....free worms.....free worm castings...all you need to do is provide the organic material and in short order a pregnant worm will arrive and colonize.....and if none do then go find a few worms and plant them in your manure pile...soon there will be many....nature is a wonderful thing.

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

there was a man selling organic worm compost in an earlier thread, i got to talk to him, poor sod stopped writing on here because certain people started to use obscure points from obscure sites to down cry his product refusing to listen to what he said in his posts, im sure someone can find the thread for you.

I've done a quick search and this is the only thread on wormcast I could find

Wormcast

I could'nt see the posts you were refering to on it. Please remember this is a discussion forum....we discuss things here If someone comes onto the forum with obviously a vested intrest in a product I think it's reasonable for them to recive a bit of "cross examination" and back up and verify their claims to it. If it's just free advertising they want there is a classifides section.

[ewelve]

Wont this die, Ok Mr RandomChances if your reply was directed at me lets analyse it, you said it was a discussion forum lets discuss, first off i thought you were in charge of this forum so its a little unsettling that you cant remember this thread as i was not that long ago and even Mr Chowna can remember and admits to commenting on it. Next since i am the only vociferous person involved in this little exchange i take it you mean me as having a 'obvious vested interest', mate its balls, its just a case of rights right and wrongs wrong period, next, "reasonable to receive cross examination", absolutely right but if the cross examination was started and based on should we say ' unreasonable and unsound prosecution evidence and bastardisation of the law, we need the jury to be aware of this to make a valid and competent decision to come up with a fair verdict. Free advertising eh? for who? where? contact details? phone number? e-mail address?, Mr RandomChances if indeed this was the idea i have made an absolute <deleted> dont you think.

You know, i said previously i dont kiss ass so i mean this with sincerity, two people i used to read and many times used and trusted their advice was yourself and MaizeFarmer, i dont know what it is to you guys about this subject to make a bloke like yourself (in my opinion), to become blinkered and defensive of what i think was an unjust flailing of a particular product. Note once again, there has been no reference to where or who to get this product so come on mate ease up and see this for what it is.

Mr Chowna, i just cant believe it, your at it again. i will try to tell you in as many monosyllable words i can muster, sorry get to try and put it into your head. Cow poo and worm poo do different jobs, different means not same so can not be compared like for like, bloody hel_l this is hard. Revital is a good site so why did you not read it where it says you mix it with poo at about 10% - 20%, then goes on to say putting more on makes no ( big word coming) difference, why did you not write were it commented (said) 20-40 grams per square meter made Significant improvement in growth, that means bigger, faster and better. On testing lucerne, what ever that is, the application rates, cant be arsed any more with this childishness, were 200kilograms per h/a not the bloody 640 you now bring up, mate grow a pair of balls and admit your wrong, even the King of Thailand is serious about this stuff go and look for yourself on Soi Asoke, the governments of so many countries are starting farms up all over the world, what and who the hel_l do you think you are that you know more than the rest of the world, stop looking for tiny things to prove your point, mate i suggest if you put as much time in on your land as you do at assassination on here, nobody need give a sod about the Amazon the world has your farm.

Finally i dont give a rats ass what lucerne is

The End. Ciao Chowna Ewelve

[chownah]

Smithson,

Ewelve brought up an interesting set of issue when he posted:

"Revital is a good site so why did you not read it where it says you mix it with poo at about 10% - 20%, then goes on to say putting more on makes no ( big word coming) difference, why did you not write were it commented (said) 20-40 grams per square meter made Significant improvement in growth, that means bigger, faster and better. On testing lucerne, what ever that is, the application rates, cant be arsed any more with this childishness, were 200kilograms per h/a not the bloody 640 you now bring up, ......"

First, both he and I agree that their site is a good one....and I did read it so now I would like to address some of the issues he raised about some of its contents.

He wrote: "it says you mix it with poo at about 10% - 20%, then goes on to say putting more on makes no ( big word coming) difference"

One portion of their information he is referring to reads as follows:

"Over the past five years the soil ecology laboratory at the Ohio State University has developed a comprehensive research program in vermicomposting. They have found consistently the addition of relatively small amounts of worm castings to standard horticultural container mixes, and even commercially prepared premium quality container media has resulted in dramatic improvements to plant growth.

A consistent and interesting trend for trials with plants grown in container media is for the best responses to occur when worm castings constitute only 10 - 20% of the volume of the mix and with increasing proportions of castings not always improving plant growth as well. "

This study done at Ohio State University and consisted of taking an mostly inert potting media which had virtually no fertility of its own and then adding different amounts of worm castings to different batches of the material and seeing if the worm castings had a beneficial effect on the seedlings grown in them. And surely it did as I would expect and anyone else would expect if they new about worm castings at all. I haven't read the research report (I did read an abstract) so I'm not sure but my guess is that the seedlings in the plain potting media sprouted and then did very very poorly...and....with increasing amounts of worm casting they did better and better....up to about 10 to 20% of worm castings in the media...and that generally having over this range of amount did not always make an improvement. This is not surprising to me....the worm castings were the only thing providing significant fertililty in this experiment and since worm castings are indeed loaded with fertilizers you would expect these results. The result is actually saying that unfertilized potting media does not grow seedlings very well and as fertilizer is added (in this case worm castings) the seedlings growth will improve until a certain amount of fertility is added and then additional fertility does not have an appreciable effect......this does not, however compare the fertility of worm castings to other fertilizers....it only shows that worm castings so in fact provide adequate fertility when mixed with potting media and that the optimal range is 10 to 20%. As an aside I note that adding 10 to 20% worm castings to the top few inches of a farmer's field would be very expensive indeed. Also, specifically I would like to point out that this study does not compare the effects of worm castings to the effects that might be had if 10 to 20% of aged manure was added to the potting media.....and what I have tried to focus on is a cost comparison between worm compost and aged manure...something that this experiment did not address from what I have read so far.....I intend to read more later.

Another portion of their information he is referring to is:

"Broad acre application of 200kg /ha of vermicast onto lucerne gave a 15% increase in yield (6). The low % of castings required for a dramatic response indicate that the dramatic responses are more than simply a function of supplying plant nutrients and that other related growth stimulants are involved (3). "

Lucerne is a legume crop grown for fodder mostly. Legume crops need a bacteria in the soil for them to act as host so that nitrogen is fixed from the air into the soil and then taken up by the plant. Since they do not report on the level of the required bacteria in the soil without the worm castings we do not know if the improvement might have come about because the worm castings provided a boost in this bacterial population. Worm castings probably do or might contain the appropriate bacterium....it is my experience that the aged cow manure that I use has it. If it is the application of this bacteria that causes this effect then it is certainly consistent with their statement (from above), "the dramatic responses are more than simply a function of supplying plant nutrients and that other related growth stimulants are involved"......the "other related growth stimulant" here might be the bacteria provided. Once again this study shows a benefit of worm castings but it does not compare the benefit it imparts with the benefits imparted by aged cow manure.

Another portion of their information he is refering to is:

"Pasture trials have shown the same effects with as little as 20 - 40 grams of vermicast per square metre making significant improvements to grass growth (5). "

In the context of scientifically conducted research regimen the term "significant improvements" usually means that the improvements are measureable.....it does not mean that they are large improvements but just that they can be detected. I don't know how "significant" the improvements noted were....that information is not provided...I'm hoping to find out when I read whatever is available at Ohio State University. Also....this report about their study does not indicate that they compared worm castings to aged manure...or that they even tested aged manure to see it effectiveness.

I'm hoping to have time to read more of Ohio State University's publications on this matter as this is the first university sponsored research I have found on worm products.

Chownah

no time to proof read I hope it makes sense.

[Somtham]

Wont this die, Mr Chowna, i just cant believe it, your at it again. i will try to tell you in as many monosyllable words i can muster, sorry get to try and put it into your head. Cow poo and worm poo do different jobs, different means not same so can not be compared like for like, bloody hel_l this is hard. Revital is a good site so why did you not read it where it says you mix it with poo at about 10% - 20%, then goes on to say putting more on makes no ( big word coming) difference, why did you not write were it commented (said) 20-40 grams per square meter made Significant improvement in growth, that means bigger, faster and better. On testing lucerne, what ever that is, the application rates, cant be arsed any more with this childishness, were 200kilograms per h/a not the bloody 640 you now bring up, mate grow a pair of balls and admit your wrong, even the King of Thailand is serious about this stuff go and look for yourself on Soi Asoke, the governments of so many countries are starting farms up all over the world, what and who the hel_l do you think you are that you know more than the rest of the world, stop looking for tiny things to prove your point, mate i suggest if you put as much time in on your land as you do at assassination on here, nobody need give a sod about the Amazon the world has your farm.

Finally i dont give a rats ass what lucerne is

The End. Ciao Chowna Ewelve

Dude, you are killing me with this post. I can't stop laughing. I know a 100 people on this forum, well maybe not quite that many, that would totally agree with what you have said.

Ignore and move on. Maintain your blood pressure.

rgds

[RamdomChances]

ewelve

I was actually refering to the "wormcast" guy who you said did'nt post anymore cos he was given a hard time. I also put a link in to the only other "wormcast" thread I could find. Organic farming is'nt one of my specialities or intrests so it hardly supprising I would'nt remember the actual post you were talking about.

If you have any complaints please PM me and we'll discuss it as 1. it takes the thread off topic and 2. Discussing moderation is against the rules

[chownah]

Somtham,

You've got the perfect opportunity to test worm castings, aged manure, and chemical fertilizers....You are collecting buckets for growing makua, aren't you?.....why not put a worm compost mix in a few, some aged manure into others, and chemical fertilizers into yet others.....then compare the results.......I'm sure you would be able to prove me wrong!!!

or....why not spread 20 to 40 grams per square metre on your existing makua rows....see what effect it has.

Chownah

P.S. Good advise to Ewelve!!! Blood pressure is a terrible thing to waste.

Chownah

Edited January 22, 2007 by chownah

[kbvicar]

If ewelve and chowna are finished with their pissing contest would some kind soul tell me where I can purchase wormcastings and/or a contact # ???

[bunta71]

Anybody aware of bags or truckloads of compost available in Chiang Mai? Or even some worm castings.The worm castings are one of the finest inventions of the century

[Smithson]

Anybody aware of bags or truckloads of compost available in Chiang Mai? Or even some worm castings.The worm castings are one of the finest inventions of the century

I think worms invented their castings a long time ago. Seriously though, the worm business hasn't taken of in the way many envisaged. Are there any worm farms currently operating in Thailand? I've tried without success to get hold of composting worms.

[kbvicar]

^^^^BUMP^^^^

[kloghead]

Get your worms/wormcastings here:

http://www.thaiworm.com/index.php?lay=show...e&Id=406438

http://www.thaiworm.com/index.php?lay=show...380&Ntype=5

This site is an agricultural co-op and has everything about vermicomposting.

350 gram packs for 25 baht. I just made an order for 25 kilos and got a substantial price break.

The guy to talk to is Khun Yai -- 081 823 6514. Speaks good english.

Edited September 23, 2008 by kloghead

[mrissara]

Get your worms/wormcastings here:

This site is an agricultural co-op and has everything about vermicomposting.

350 gram packs for 25 baht. I just made an order for 25 kilos and got a substantial price break.

The guy to talk to is Khun Yai -- 081 823 6514. Speaks good english.

From the same URL, 08/30/08

The most recent price from another farm is 15k per ton. (375 for 25 kg bag)

khun TherdSak 085-1638779

I also start a small colony of 100 worms a couple days ago. They ate FAST.

[IsaanAussie]

As a regular contributer to Lickeys Farming Humour thread, I think the greater part of this subject should be migrated to the humour column. I have not laughed so hard in ages. Who's on First, What's on Second....

Actually, doubt the worms give a sh_t anyway.

My question is, has anyone produced pelletised organic fertiliser? If so, where did you get the pelleting equipment? Is it an axial extruder or a drum type?

[Smithson]

My question is, has anyone produced pelletised organic fertiliser? If so, where did you get the pelleting equipment? Is it an axial extruder or a drum type?

I bought some pellet fertilizer a long time ago, it looked exactly like Dynamic Lifter. It was only a small bag and there were no details on it.

[farmerapache]

if you have like 2 weeks time we will be able to give you the correct information about a very good fertilyzer wich we gonna import from europe.

it's 100% bio fertilyzer,lot's cheeper,faster harvest and ontill 35% better harvest as well.

Edited November 15, 2008 by soundman
No email addresses as per forum rules.

[tig28]

Hi guys

The family uses this organic fertilizer each year for the rice fields --- i have attached photos of the bags FYI --- if the contact details are not able to be read --- feel free to pm me.

[farmerapache]

have a look at this website, www.pd-im-export-thailand.com

this stuf is very good and tested in thailand on many crops,we also use it on our plantages.

[tig28]

Hi guys

The family uses this organic fertilizer each year for the rice fields --- i have attached photos of the bags FYI --- if the contact details are not able to be read --- feel free to pm me.

Adding photos (again ??) Right click on image to enlarge.

cheers tig