Bangkok Air Pollution

[kuma]

Bad news on the Toshiba replacement filters.

 

I have two units. I did buy one replacement filter a few years back - and was planning to buy two new ones next month, I hope they still produce them - it would be interesting (and brand impacting) if they do not have replacement filters when they are stated to have a five year life span.

 

I have model CAF C4A

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

46 minutes ago, kuma said:

Bad news on the Toshiba replacement filters.

 

I have two units. I did buy one replacement filter a few years back - and was planning to buy two new ones next month, I hope they still produce them - it would be interesting (and brand impacting) if they do not have replacement filters when they are stated to have a five year life span.

 

 

You know you need to contact the Toshiba service center hotline in BKK and check with the lady there who handles filters, who does speak decent English. Whether they have replacements for your model, though, will be interesting to see.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

I'm in Vientiane now and the air is disgusting, certainly much worse than it ever is in Bangkok.

I imagine that it is also because of the crop burning. Bangkok has a different problem.  I think we are all different in the way it effects us, but as a rule of thumb I'd say it's 50/50 whether you will suffer an allergic type reaction.  The headline figure is the pm2.5 particulates, but it's poor ground ozone and irritants such as black carbon that cause the most immediate issues such as a blocked nose and sinus issues.  

 

I can ride poor pollution for a couple of days, but was surprised at its severity in Bkk when I visited there recently.  That is not to say that there are not places much worse.  I think how you view pollution depends on lifestyle; I like to be out and about for a few hours every day, but couch potatoes and desk jockeys probably won't notice a thing.

[ChidlomDweller]

13 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

I'm in Vientiane now and the air is disgusting, certainly much worse than it ever is in Bangkok.

I was in Danang and Hoi An last December and there was a permanent light smoke around, also completely out in the woods, 50km inland.  Agricultural burning is popular in this region...

[balo]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Which model, or any 3M model?

I don't know , 9105 ?  That's the best one right? 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The 9105 is the VFlex, and that seems hard to find at present. You can check your local Tescos and see if they have any in stock.

 

But what you really want is a 3M brand N95-certified mask that's comfortable and fits your face. One of the other posters here mentioned that there are versions available in Boots stores and at HomePro as well.

 

Considering Thai retail stocking practices, perhaps the 9105s will get easier to find at Tesco and elsewhere once the smog season is over! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Got my case of 3M 9010 N95 face masks in the mail today... I bought from America, but in opening the package, looks like they were made in China. Each one individually plastic wrapped, and very thin and folded making them easy to keep and carry. Haven't needed to open one up yet for first use, fortunately.

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

On 20/03/2018 at 11:51 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The 9105 is the VFlex, and that seems hard to find at present. You can check your local Tescos and see if they have any in stock.

 

But what you really want is a 3M brand N95-certified mask that's comfortable and fits your face. One of the other posters here mentioned that there are versions available in Boots stores and at HomePro as well.

 

Considering Thai retail stocking practices, perhaps the 9105s will get easier to find at Tesco and elsewhere once the smog season is over! 

Tesco On Nut has restocked with about 20 on the shelf. Please be considerate and just take one or two rather than the whole lot.

[The manic]

On 1/24/2018 at 3:58 PM, tryasimight said:

People come to city with 10 million people and 6 million cars and complain about pollution. Some people move to the tropics and complain about the heat. 

Unbelievable. 

Too true.  I was in BKK years ago when it was worse. I go to a, pub in London where SWP/SJW complain about air... But they chose to move there. 

[kuma]

On 3/20/2018 at 11:51 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The 9105 is the VFlex, and that seems hard to find at present. You can check your local Tescos and see if they have any in stock.

 

But what you really want is a 3M brand N95-certified mask that's comfortable and fits your face. One of the other posters here mentioned that there are versions available in Boots stores and at HomePro as well.

 

Considering Thai retail stocking practices, perhaps the 9105s will get easier to find at Tesco and elsewhere once the smog season is over! 

3M N95 or N99 are great masks. I have a stock of them (they have a long shelve life) and then you are ready when bad air hits - at times like in January its too late, everyone rushes out to buy and there are none left. Next few months will be the time to get a stock to keep at home.

 

Try Thai Watsadu as well.

[balo]

I found plenty of 3M 9105 on Lazada , so I just made an order today .   Delivery time around 1 week . 50 masks around 800 baht , 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Got my new PM2.5 sensor in the mail today, and promptly set it up in my living room in downtown BKK. Then tested it before and after with my Honeywell 50250 air purifier in my 430 sf. ft. living room/kitchen area.

 

Info is here:

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bad day today.... Breathers beware!  Bangkok PM2.5 readings as of 9 am Friday.

 

•  

[mommysboy]

Yes so this does rather prove that we can't simply say that Bangkok is mostly 'normal'- reasonably ok like many capital cities.  There is a chronic problem developing imo.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Two AQI points away from Red/"Unhealthy for All" at the Chula Silom station, and already into the Red elsewhere in BKK. The sky outside looks like c**p.

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As of 4 pm in my little part of Asoke area heaven...

 

My PM2.5 sensor when placed outside gives a reading of about 65 micrograms, which is an AQI of 156 and just into the Unhealthy for All / Red category.

 

Inside, with my Honeywell 50250 air purifier running on medium in my living room, the same sensor is reading about 14 micrograms, which is just out of the Green / Good category and slightly into the Yellow / Moderate AQI category.

 

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As of 4 pm in my little part of Asoke area heaven...

 

My PM2.5 sensor when placed outside gives a reading of about 65 micrograms, which is an AQI of 156 and just into the Unhealthy for All / Red category.

 

Inside, with my Honeywell 50250 air purifier running on medium in my living room, the same sensor is reading about 14 micrograms, which is just out of the Green / Good category and slightly into the Yellow / Moderate AQI category.

 

Any chance of a comparable reading inside with air filter and then without (perhaps after an hour or 2 with window open)?  What I mean is that just securing windows and doors alone might act as a filter.

[Bangkokazy]

Best to stay indoors now 

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Any chance of a comparable reading inside with air filter and then without (perhaps after an hour or 2 with window open)?  What I mean is that just securing windows and doors alone might act as a filter.

How would it? The air inside comes from the air outside. There's no filter at the bottom of a door. Some of the particulate matter falls to the ground inside but the majority remains in the air.

[mommysboy]

35 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

How would it? The air inside comes from the air outside. There's no filter at the bottom of a door. Some of the particulate matter falls to the ground inside but the majority remains in the air.

I don't know, but that is the health advice that is commonly given: stay indoors.  It would be a good experiment wouldn't it?- shut the door and window and switch on air con for half an hour or so.

Edited March 23, 2018 by mommysboy

[edwardandtubs]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I don't know, but that is the health advice that is commonly given: stay indoors.  It would be a good experiment wouldn't it?- shut the door and window and switch on air con for half an hour or so.

That experiment had been done before many times and the results always show indoor pollution is not much better than outdoor pollution.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Any chance of a comparable reading inside with air filter and then without (perhaps after an hour or 2 with window open)?  What I mean is that just securing windows and doors alone might act as a filter.

 

Since I got the PM2.5 sensor the other day, I've been running all kinds of comparisons with my air purifiers running and with them turned off. Thus far, generally speaking, the unpurified air indoors in my home, with all the doors and windows closed, tends to be a bit less polluted than the ambient air outside.  At least in terms of just PM2.5.

 

But on a bad day outside like today was, the difference indoors without running any purifiers really doesn't provide much relief. It's still bad inside, just not quite as bad as outside.

 

[mommysboy]

14 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

That experiment had been done before many times and the results always show indoor pollution is not much better than outdoor pollution.

Well,  it could be done again, couldn't it? Just as a control check.  Mind you, I think TBJ has more or less given the answer.

 

Perhaps the advice to stay indoors is to reduce exposure to heavier particles and local irritants which might cause allergy attacks and asthma, etc.

Edited March 24, 2018 by mommysboy

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I should add, apart from getting out an old, heavy-duty Honeywell "tank" air purifier from storage and buying a new, quiet Sharp purifier for the bedroom, I've begun a routine of several other things:

 

--Keeping the windows all closed at home, since at present, the air outside is invariably worse than the air purified air I have inside. The air outside in BKK at present is anything but "fresh."

 

--Covered my regular permanent air con filters with disposable Filtrete sheets and change them periodically. (The first time, the sheets were grey dirty within a week. But since then, they're lasting a lot longer and not needing as replacement so often.)

 

--Begun dust mopping the floors in my home, using a dust mop and the dust attractant sprays that you can buy in the stores, on a once a week basis. Even with the air purifiers running and the Filtrete sheets on my AC filters, I still get a fair amount of floor dust on the mop every week. And that means less dust in the air.

 

--And lastly because of a personal thing with me, I have a bad allergy for dust mites, I got rid of my old box springs type bed frame and replaced it with a solid metal bed frame that has no fabric and no padding, thus no home for dust mites.

 

Getting rid of the bed box springs and padded headboard did wonders for my allergy symptoms. And since I started using the Filtrete filters on the AC units and dust mopping regularly, the amount of visible dust settling on furniture/tables and such in my bedroom is substantially reduced.

 

The one thing I also want to test -- but haven't had a chance to do it yet -- is whether using the Filtrete sheets on your regular permanent air con filters has any effect on PM2.5.  Supposedly, the Filtrete sheets can capture particles fairly small. But in reading up on that product, it's hard to find clear, specific info on just how small, and how efficient they are at filtration (90%, 95% 99%???).  So now that I have a PM2.5 sensor at home, testing the Filtrete sheets without running air purifiers is one of the things on my agenda.

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I should add, apart from getting out an old, heavy-duty Honeywell "tank" air purifier from storage and buying a new, quiet Sharp purifier for the bedroom, I've begun a routine of several other things:

 

--Keeping the windows all closed at home, since at present, the air outside is invariably worse than the air purified air I have inside. The air outside in BKK at present is anything but "fresh."

 

--Covered my regular permanent air con filters with disposable Filtrete sheets and change them periodically. (The first time, the sheets were grey dirty within a week. But since then, they're lasting a lot longer and not needing as replacement so often.)

 

--Begun dust mopping the floors in my home, using a dust mop and the dust attractant sprays that you can buy in the stores, on a once a week basis. Even with the air purifiers running and the Filtrete sheets on my AC filters, I still get a fair amount of floor dust on the mop every week. And that means less dust in the air.

 

--And lastly because of a personal thing with me, I have a bad allergy for dust mites, I got rid of my old box springs type bed frame and replaced it with a solid metal bed frame that has no fabric and no padding, thus no home for dust mites.

 

Getting rid of the bed box springs and padded headboard did wonders for my allergy symptoms. And since I started using the Filtrete filters on the AC units and dust mopping regularly, the amount of visible dust settling on furniture/tables and such in my bedroom is substantially reduced.

 

The one thing I also want to test -- but haven't had a chance to do it yet -- is whether using the Filtrete sheets on your regular permanent air con filters has any effect on PM2.5.  Supposedly, the Filtrete sheets can capture particles fairly small. But in reading up on that product, it's hard to find clear, specific info on just how small, and how efficient they are at filtration (90%, 95% 99%???).  So now that I have a PM2.5 sensor at home, testing the Filtrete sheets without running air purifiers is one of the things on my agenda.

 

It's probably one of the most informative postings on TV.  Well done.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Bad day today, and not looking much better for tomorrow:

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Did something today I've never ever done before in my life -- wore a Honeywell respirator mask when I went outside in Bangkok, and I guess I'm glad I did considering the red / Unhealthy air quality reading for BKK today.

 

Overall impression -- not a very pleasant experience, but tolerable when the smog is bad. The Honeywell 9010 masks I bought supposedly do an excellent job of filtering out PM2.5, better than the N 95% standard that the mask has. But this particular model is made of a soft pliant material. So every time I breathed out, the mask material expanded like blowing into a balloon. And every time I breathed in, the material was sucked up against my cheeks.

 

The one good thing about that is, that tells you you've got a good seal between the mask and your face. The first time I tried the mask on at home before we went outside, I had it too high on my face, and as soon as I breathed out, all the exhaled air shot right up out the top of the mask and into my eyes. So, pulled the mask down lower on my face, tightened the metal clip section over my nose, and got a good seal.

 

I don't know if it's just me being a big guy with big body and big lungs. But when I breathed in outside like when hiking up the BTS stairs or doing some other exertion, it felt like I wasn't getting enough air thru the mask and I really had to take deep and strong breaths to get what felt like enough air into my lungs.

 

And of course, there was the time when I got a tickle in my nose that kept bugging me and bugging me, but hard to do anything about it with the mask on. So finally, it got worse and my nose started running a bit, and then that turned into a coming sneeze. So quickly stopped and stepped aside on the sidewalk, turned aside to quickly pull the mask off my face, and then promptly sneezed all over my wife, which she really appreciated!

 

So, I guess I'll try the mask again next time when I'm outside and the air's bad, and see if it gets any better with repeated use.

 

BTW, the price below is for a box of 50 masks... Not 1,000 baht per mask!

 

 

One thing I noticed when I was outside, perhaps feeling a bit self-conscious. I probably saw a half dozen or more people outside wearing masks when we were out and around. But I don't think any that I saw were the respirator N95 type masks, and all instead were the simple hospital-type, drug store paper masks that do nothing for PM2.5.

 

I think I want to try one of the 3M "Cool Flow" kind that have a little vent for exhaling that supposedly makes wearing them more comfortable. The 9010 model above does not have any vent for exhaling.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[utalkin2me]

Just for some perspective, how bad is the air for you on a bad day here in bkk (for the entire day) vs say smoking a single cigarette as far as your health goes? I’ve gotta think the cig is going to be way way worse. 

 

I also wonder how effective conciously breathing through through your nose can be. If you’re like me you’ve got a ton of helping filters in the nostrils that is normally not so welcome, but under these circumstances... :)

Edited March 24, 2018 by utalkin2me

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

Just for some perspective, how bad is the air for you on a bad day here in bkk (for the entire day) vs say smoking a single cigarette as far as your health goes? I’ve gotta think the cig is going to be way way worse. 

 

I also wonder how effective conciously breathing through through your nose can be. If you’re like me you’ve got a ton of helping filters in the nostrils that is normally not so welcome, but under these circumstances... :)

 

Well, for starters, I've never smoked, probably because my parents both did and I always hated the ashtray breath smell, not to mention the health hazards of smoking.

 

But generally, I'd also guess that smoking itself is more harmful that just breathing BKK air, since the outside air in BKK isn't usually as bad as it is right now every day all thru the year, whereas people who smoke usually do so day after day, every day.

 

Even so, if you read the medical literature on PM2.5, which are the very tiniest pollution particles that are a particular air pollution problem in this region including BKK, it's very bad because those invisible to the naked eye particles get past all your body's defenses (including those in your nose), get absorbed thru the lung tissue and get into your blood, where prolonged exposure can cause all kinds of health problems.

 

For anyone who wants to take care of their health, obviously, they can choose not to smoke and not be around smokers. But in the same way, when the air outside is bad, everyone here -- especially the farangs who have the ability to learn and understand perhaps better than some locals -- likewise have the ability to avoid that bad air if they want to, whether inside at home or outside on the street. Just need to decide it's something you want to do, and then assemble the tools/devices you need to make it happen. It's a choice, just like not smoking is a choice.

 

 

 

[utalkin2me]

On 3/23/2018 at 9:52 PM, mommysboy said:

I don't know, but that is the health advice that is commonly given: stay indoors.  It would be a good experiment wouldn't it?- shut the door and window and switch on air con for half an hour or so.

https://www.quora.com/Does-staying-indoors-during-days-of-heavy-pollution-actually-protect-one-from-the-health-effects-of-air-pollution

 

im sorta just thinking out loud, but if you imaging a cave in a forest and a bunch of bad air came through the area, inside the cave definitely seems to me it would have cleaner air (assuming there was no crap inside the cave already). If there was some cross flow, like many apartments with open windows have, I can see the inside and outside air rapidly becoming homogeneous. 

 

I personally bet bet if the air was in the very bad unhealthy range for a couple of weeks, it would become homogeneous inside and out in many homes, especially with cross flow. But, we usually just have the really bad stuff for a day or two? 

Edited March 25, 2018 by utalkin2me