sanemax Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Kadilo said: I agree. But they are doing it with women who are there to sell themselves and not what they are doing, as opposed to the likes of students in the West end who are trying to earn a few extra quid. And how many of the girls made any complaint ? Seems that is was just the undercover reporters . The woman didnt seem to mind, its just the do-gooders getting offended on someone elses behalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 56 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: In what way could it be seen as entrapment? The reports of harassment don't even come from the journalists and even if they did they would need to have encouraged the men to harass them for it to be entrapment, but as they only witnessed others being harassed and took statements from them, all we actually have is a pathetic attempt to victim blame. It's like putting a speed camera on a section of highway where it is known nearly every car speeds but no one is driving faster than the conditions suggest. You are going to catch a lot of speeders but no one was made any safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadilo Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, sanemax said: And how many of the girls made any complaint ? Seems that is was just the undercover reporters . The woman didnt seem to mind, its just the do-gooders getting offended on someone elses behalf We are never gonna agree so let's at least agree on that. :) Edited January 25, 2018 by Kadilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, sanemax said: And how many of the girls made any complaint ? Seems that is was just the undercover reporters . The woman didnt seem to mind, its just the do-gooders getting offended on someone elses behalf Well it certainly sounds like they were expecting the staff to be harassed. The accompanying brochure included a full-page warning that no attendees or staff should be sexually harassed. You just have to put up with the annoying men and if you can do that it’s fine,” Ms Dandridge told the hostess https://www.ft.com/content/075d679e-0033-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 am I the only one here to think that there obviously was a problem with the recruitment of these hostesses ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, canuckamuck said: It's like putting a speed camera on a section of highway where it is known nearly every car speeds but no one is driving faster than the conditions suggest. You are going to catch a lot of speeders but no one was made any safer. We have laws protecting employees from sexual harassment, it's not legal to tell staff that they "have to put up with it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, manarak said: am I the only one here to think that there obviously was a problem with the recruitment of these hostesses ? The only way to avoid complaints would through contract. Do you think a contract that signed away their right not to be sexually assaulted would be legal? Would they not then effectively turn the charity fundraiser into a brothel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsensam Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 19 hours ago, trainman34014 said: So; all is normal in The City then. I worked there for 25 years and saw what is now described as 'Sexual Harassment' happening on a daily basis, but in those days it was called 'Flirting' and much of it led eventually to marriage/affairs, or just casual dating. In these Politically Correct days no man is free to even talk to women without it being assumed he is 'after something'. Glad my time working in Office's is well and truly over as the atmosphere must be Caustic ! 19 hours ago, BEVUP said: So they knew it was a mens only event but were allowed in What were they expecting & as mentioned it use to be called Flirting I've been in the position of being reamed out by the boss of a project as I was trying to put the hard word on a women in Auss ( in a construction camp facility ) These women think they are the untouchables (wanna be cops ) She obviously didn't like it (a flirting attempt ) So the west can keep their BS, much better here so, groping, putting your had up a woman's skirt is just flirting, exposing your penis is just flirting? interesting point of view they were employed to wait tables. would you be happy for your daughter or wife to be treated in such a way if she was employed to wait tables? if it's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: The only way to avoid complaints would through contract. Do you think a contract that signed away their right not to be sexually assaulted would be legal? Would they not then effectively turn the charity fundraiser into a brothel? I think a contract could cover lewd speech and groping, giving also the hostess the opportunity to walk away if anything went too far for her tastes... I see no problem with such events if it can be made sure hostesses know what to expect when signing up for the job and what their rights are if anything goes too far. If laws obstruct the process a forming a clear agreement between parties, then the laws are bad and need to be changed. Edited January 25, 2018 by manarak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 All the guys defending it here....... Crazy. Since when its a guys right to grope and touch woman who are just there to serve drinks. I guess you guys also think it was quite normal to expose the genitals to the waitress. I wonder if you guys would be so understanding if it were your daughters or wives serving drinks there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, manarak said: I think a contract could cover lewd speech and groping, giving also the hostess the opportunity to walk away if anything went too far for her tastes... I see no problem with such events if it can be made sure hostesses know what to expect when signing up for the job and what their rights are if anything goes too far. If laws obstruct the process a forming a clear agreement between parties, then the laws are bad and need to be changed. Laws are made to protect weak people... but your idea says a lot about your mentality. If they had hired prostitutes it would be ok.. oh.. NOT because that is against the law int he UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, robblok said: Laws are made to protect weak people... but your idea says a lot about your mentality. If they had hired prostitutes it would be ok.. oh.. NOT because that is against the law int he UK. except mentioning "my mentality", you don't bring up any clear argument in your post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, manarak said: I think a contract could cover lewd speech and groping, giving also the hostess the opportunity to walk away if anything went too far for her tastes... I see no problem with such events if it can be made sure hostesses know what to expect when signing up for the job and what their rights are if anything goes too far. If laws obstruct the process a forming a clear agreement between parties, then the laws are bad and need to be changed. When a law prevents vulnerable people from being exploited, the law is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Kieran00001 said: When a law prevents vulnerable people from being exploited, the law is good. ok let's ban all work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: The only way to avoid complaints would through contract. Do you think a contract that signed away their right not to be sexually assaulted would be legal? Would they not then effectively turn the charity fundraiser into a brothel? Steady on , it wouldnt turn the fundraiser into a brothel and it was hardly sexual assault Just people enjoying themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 20 hours ago, snoop1130 said: "You look far too sober," the man was reported as saying. "I want you to down that glass, rip off your knickers (underwear) and dance on that table." At the Red Parrot in Vung Tau, you don't even have to ask them to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, manarak said: ok let's ban all work No, let's not, let's just ban jobs that have contracts signing away basic human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Kieran00001 said: No, let's not, let's just ban jobs that have contracts signing away basic human rights. Why not segregate males and females from the working environment , to stop any natural attraction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sanemax said: Why not segregate males and females from the working environment , to stop any natural attraction 4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: No, let's not, let's just ban jobs that have contracts signing away basic human rights. it's also a basic human right to agree too ! even Amnesty International agrees that sex work is a human right. my concern is to make sure there are no abuses, your concern seems to be to ban everything that doesn't fit your morals. vade retro, bigotry ! Edited January 25, 2018 by manarak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, sanemax said: Steady on , it wouldnt turn the fundraiser into a brothel and it was hardly sexual assault Just people enjoying themselves Is that what you call enjoying yourself in your country? In the West that behaviour is illegal and if we want to enjoy ourselves with a woman she has to be willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Kieran00001 said: Is that what you call enjoying yourself in your country? In the West that behaviour is illegal and if we want to enjoy ourselves with a woman she has to be willing. Well , the offences reported seem to be *holding hands , arm put around a womans waist , and an inappropriate suggestion* Considering that it was an adults only evening event , I do think that we can excuse those actions, on this occassion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, manarak said: it's also a basic human right to agree too ! even Amnesty International agrees that sex work is a human right. my concern is to make sure there are no abuses, your concern seems to be to ban everything that doesn't fit your morals. vade retro, bigotry ! And we don't ban sex work in the UK, we ban employing people in sex work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: Is that what you call enjoying yourself in your country? In the West that behaviour is illegal and if we want to enjoy ourselves with a woman she has to be willing. "in the West" ... you are being a bit megalomaniac, there are plenty of Western countries where adequate personnel can legally be recruited for such events: Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Austria, Belgium... just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, manarak said: except mentioning "my mentality", you don't bring up any clear argument in your post? Because i find it amazing that people like you seem to think its ok to grope up serving ladies in bars and exposing your genitals to them. If you do that in the general public you will be in trouble. Why should it be permitted for serving ladies.. and where does it end... its ok to grope this serving lady at this event but not that one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said: And we don't ban sex work in the UK, we ban employing people in sex work. which is as hypocritical as it comes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 The poor dears, it'll take years of therapy to overcome the trauma of it all but they'll never be the same again. If only had it really been the bible reading class they thought they'd signed up for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, sanemax said: Well , the offences reported seem to be *holding hands , arm put around a womans waist , and an inappropriate suggestion* Considering that it was an adults only evening event , I do think that we can excuse those actions, on this occassion That activity can be observed in nearly every bar, every night, everywhere in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, sanemax said: Well , the offences reported seem to be *holding hands , arm put around a womans waist , and an inappropriate suggestion* Considering that it was an adults only evening event , I do think that we can excuse those actions, on this occassion Read the FT original report, it involves putting hands up skirts and exposing genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, robblok said: Because i find it amazing that people like you seem to think its ok to grope up serving ladies in bars and exposing your genitals to them. If you do that in the general public you will be in trouble. Why should it be permitted for serving ladies.. and where does it end... its ok to grope this serving lady at this event but not that one..... it's not ok, and needs to be policed by organizers. "serving ladies" is a blanket term that does not reflect the different meanings it covers. when you say "serving ladies" I picture ladies looking like hi-class hotel staff, elegant but unerotic. in this exclusively masculine event though, the ladies were wearing thin, short, body-revealing see-through dresses and high heels, and their primary task was not to serve drinks but to "entertain the guests". so we are far from what I would picture as "serving ladies". the organizers are responsible for making sure everyone is on the same page about the nature of the event and what can be tolerated and what not, as well as for providing the necessary security resources to enforce the rules. Edited January 25, 2018 by manarak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, manarak said: "in the West" ... you are being a bit megalomaniac, there are plenty of Western countries where adequate personnel can legally be recruited for such events: Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Austria, Belgium... just to name a few. Sticking your hand up a waitresses skirt is not legal in any of those countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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