Motorbike accident advice...please help

[jane108]

Just now, BEVUP said:

So where's your husband (is he thai or falang ) 

If Thai he could handle it that way with the woman 

He is a foreigner. 

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, jane108 said:

He is a foreigner. 

Good, let the owner go to police - Between 2 Falangs wont really worry unless their getting free meals

 

[jane108]

1 minute ago, BEVUP said:

Good, let the owner go to police - Between 2 Falangs wont really worry unless their getting free meals

 

I don't think he will go. I learned the bike doesn't have the proper "rental" permission required by the local gov't. I was not aware of this so....

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Jane, if the renter has no licence to rent out bikes then I suggest you harden your stance. Enough of this nonsense, offer them a reasonable sum to fix a twenty-year-old bike, take it or leave it, but - and I stress this - do not issue threats and do not leave yourselves vulnerable to intimidation or violence.

[jane108]

20 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Jane, if the renter has no licence to rent out bikes then I suggest you harden your stance. Enough of this nonsense, offer them a reasonable sum to fix a twenty-year-old bike, take it or leave it, but - and I stress this - do not issue threats and do not leave yourselves vulnerable to intimidation or violence.

Thanks. I have not been threatening whatsoever. I genuinely just want to resolve the situation, but am also not going to allow someone, particularly a foreigner, to take advantage of me. I believe I have been very fair in offering to pay for the damage done and still have no problem in doing so ---but within reason. 

I realize I could be vulnerable. Sad for something so small.I have thought about that as well. Any advice for the later issue would be appreciated. :) 

Edited January 26, 2018 by jane108

[glasswort]

No doubt the bike is insured! Sorry but anyone that rents a motor cycle without damage insurance in Thailand get what they deserve, be the accident their fault or not.

 

As a matter of interest I had a collision on my 4 year old PCX a couple of years back. The front end and all the offside sustained severe damage. The total bill for repairs was just less than 10k and this included a check by a Honda dealer that the repairs were o.k.

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, glasswort said:

No doubt the bike is insured! Sorry but anyone that rents a motor cycle without damage insurance in Thailand get what they deserve, be the accident their fault or not.

I did never see a motorbike (scooter) for rent that had more than the compulsary insurance (many not even this), so what are you talking about?

 

In case he wants to make more problems: Renting motorbikes is probably not one of the allowed jobs for foreigners

Edited January 26, 2018 by jackdd

[glasswort]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I did never see a motorbike (scooter) for rent that had more than the compulsary insurance (many not even this), so what are you talking about?

 

In case he wants to make more problems: Renting motorbikes is probably not one of the allowed jobs for foreigners

so what are you talking about? Exactly what I have written. I have never rented a scooter in Thailand and would not do so if it did not have full insurance. Caveat emptor.

[jackdd]

Just now, glasswort said:

so what are you talking about? Exactly what I have written. I have never rented a scooter in Thailand and would not do so if it did not have full insurance. Caveat emptor.

Then you should just say: Don't rent a motorbike in Thailand. The way you wrote it, it seemed it is very well possible to rent one with insurance.

[richard_smith237]

This is all becoming a little clearer.

 

The 'Couple' (Thai Lady / Western Male) may be struggling financially. 

The 'Couple' rented their bike out to a Western lady (the OP)

The 'Couple' rented their bike out illegally (no rental license)

The 'Western Lady' had an accident

The 'Couple' are claiming excessive damages (charges to repair)

The 'Couple' have become aggressive (shouting)

The 'Western' Lady has independently confirmed the Damage at 5000 baht 

 

It is quite clear that this 'Couple' are desperate and thought they could squeeze some extra money from you. It seems they are not very nice people.

 

The Honda you rented is not a 'Classic Honda Cub' which may increase in value... It is a bog standard, aged and depreciated Honda Dream.

 

Course of action: 

Offer 5000 baht to the Couple for the damage

If they get angry - tell them you will walk away and offer nothing

They will make threats of the Police, play their bluff, thats fine

 

Be Prepared: 

Have the Costs of a bike the same Age and Model (printed on paper). 

Have a quote from your friend (based on the photos) of repair costs (i.e. not more than 5000 baht) printed on paper. 

 

 

 

[jane108]

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is all becoming a little clearer.

 

The 'Couple' (Thai Lady / Western Male) may be struggling financially. 

The 'Couple' rented their bike out to a Western lady (the OP)

The 'Couple' rented their bike out illegally (no rental license)

The 'Western Lady' had an accident

The 'Couple' are claiming excessive damages (charges to repair)

The 'Couple' have become aggressive (shouting)

The 'Western' Lady has independently confirmed the Damage at 5000 baht 

 

It is quite clear that this 'Couple' are desperate and thought they could squeeze some extra money from you. It seems they are not very nice people.

 

The Honda you rented is not a 'Classic Honda Cub' which may increase in value... It is a bog standard, aged and depreciated Honda Dream.

 

Course of action: 

Offer 5000 baht to the Couple for the damage

If they get angry - tell them you will walk away and offer nothing

They will make threats of the Police, play their bluff, thats fine

 

Be Prepared: 

Have the Costs of a bike the same Age and Model (printed on paper). 

Have a quote from your friend (based on the photos) of repair costs (i.e. not more than 5000 baht) printed on paper. 

 

 

 

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. One note, the couple said the bike is twenty years old. I asked today and they won't confirm now. So I am assuming this. I know it is a Honda Dream 125 cc. I posted two pictures of the damage on Page 2. Finally if I ask the nice Thai lady who owns the motorbike shop, and said it will cost no more than 5000 b. to write me this, am I putting her in any kind of predicament??? I think at this point everyone is saying the same thing, offer them 5000 b. and walk away.

 

The Thai lady did say that "she didn't want to make this a power thing", and that "she knows the family who has power in her neighborhood". Would a "powerful" family of a street actually get involved for something like this? 

Edited January 26, 2018 by jane108
Adding the word "confirm"

[samsensam]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is all becoming a little clearer.

 

The 'Couple' (Thai Lady / Western Male) may be struggling financially. 

The 'Couple' rented their bike out to a Western lady (the OP)

The 'Couple' rented their bike out illegally (no rental license)

The 'Western Lady' had an accident

The 'Couple' are claiming excessive damages (charges to repair)

The 'Couple' have become aggressive (shouting)

The 'Western' Lady has independently confirmed the Damage at 5000 baht 

 

It is quite clear that this 'Couple' are desperate and thought they could squeeze some extra money from you. It seems they are not very nice people.

 

The Honda you rented is not a 'Classic Honda Cub' which may increase in value... It is a bog standard, aged and depreciated Honda Dream.

 

Course of action: 

Offer 5000 baht to the Couple for the damage

If they get angry - tell them you will walk away and offer nothing

They will make threats of the Police, play their bluff, thats fine

 

Be Prepared: 

Have the Costs of a bike the same Age and Model (printed on paper). 

Have a quote from your friend (based on the photos) of repair costs (i.e. not more than 5000 baht) printed on paper. 

 

 

 

 

sounds like good advice. i mean if you had a valuable vintage motorcycle would you really be renting it out to tourists?

 

in my experience every time a thai has said they will go to the police i just say 'right, lets go' and head off to the local cop shop, they always back down.

 

[DefaultName]

26 minutes ago, jane108 said:

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. One note, the couple said the bike is twenty years old. I asked today and they won't confirm now. So I am assuming this. I know it is a Honda Dream 125 cc. I posted two pictures of the damage on Page 2. Finally if I ask the nice Thai lady who owns the motorbike shop, and said it will cost no more than 5000 b. to write me this, am I putting her in any kind of predicament??? I think at this point everyone is saying the same thing, offer them 5000 b. and walk away.

 

The Thai lady did say that "she didn't want to make this a power thing", and that "she knows the family who has power in her neighborhood". Would a "powerful" family of a street actually get involved for something like this? 

You posted here to ask for advice, looks like you have it.

[jane108]

40 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

You posted here to ask for advice, looks like you have it.

Yes, thanks to everyone. I may give a brief update in the near future. Until then, have a nice weekend. :) 

[thaiguzzi]

5 hours ago, jane108 said:

Husband went to try and talk seeing that they clearly were not ready to talk to me. OMG, what a mess. So I was told by the foreigner owner of the bike that the owner, and friend, of the motorbike repair shop looked at the bike yesterday and said 50/50 chance it will work. Today his wife tells my husband, owner is on the mainland and the bike is in a queue. No one has looked at it. Her husband keeps saying the bike is a write off. My husband says okay, what would you sell it to me for. Husband says 30000 b. My husband says c'mon be reasonable, this is a 20 yr. old bike. He goes silent. Then says he will call the police. My husband says okay, I am fine with that. So, now the story is changing. The bike has not been assessed. And, it might be fixed here according to the wife. The husband maintains that it cannot be fixed. Please see images of the bike. :) 

From these pics, can't see too much wrong with it. New front basket - 120 baht.

Bent bits - straighten.

You may not be aware, these bikes have no top yoke or top triple tree or top crown (depending on your country/language), and are basically similar to a bicycle front end. This alignment going out is very common, even dropped at a walking pace. Very easy to fix, just like a bicycle. 2 strong blokes can straighten this with no tools or dismantling recquired.

Shop would charge you less than 500 baht for the above. Inc a new basket...

By the way, if the bike has no Por Lor Bor (3rd party ins and annual road tax) it aint worth more than 5k. With a current, up to date legit green book with the above PLB, 9-10k. No more.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, jane108 said:

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. One note, the couple said the bike is twenty years old. I asked today and they won't confirm now. So I am assuming this. I know it is a Honda Dream 125 cc. I posted two pictures of the damage on Page 2. Finally if I ask the nice Thai lady who owns the motorbike shop, and said it will cost no more than 5000 b. to write me this, am I putting her in any kind of predicament??? I think at this point everyone is saying the same thing, offer them 5000 b. and walk away.

 

The Thai lady did say that "she didn't want to make this a power thing", and that "she knows the family who has power in her neighborhood". Would a "powerful" family of a street actually get involved for something like this? 

 

"am I putting her in any kind of predicament???" .... Only you or the lady can answer that. If she refuses to write something on paper the answer is yes, however, if she is happy to help you out, then perhaps not. 

 

"she knows the family who has power in her neighborhood"... this is juvenile rubbish, every Thai, ok many, use this threat when they get upset - it was picked up in the school yard along with 'my dad's can beat up your dad' and they haven't emotionally evolved. 

 

 

It seems you are offering more than a reasonable solution. If they won't accept that, walk away and let them know that - they have nothing to hold over you, but you have 5000 baht to hold over them but only if they are going to be reasonable. 

 

Simply just offer Offer 5000 baht one last time and tell them if they won't accept that happily, just walk away... then just ignore them... eventually they'll accept it and be happy with it because they have no other option. 

 

 

Personally - I would have already lowered it to 2500 baht and if they hassled me any more I'd ask the Police to get involved to check their Rental License and the Immigration Status of her husband who may be on an overstay and / or working illegally....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by richard_smith237

[Emmess]

Very probable that he is working illegally.

Also as a side note, this case kind of proves to an extent that the person who has more 'power' in a particular position does behave like a bully. Be it an expat or a Thai. In this particular case it's an expat vs a tourist.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Emmess

[Airbagwill]

So when you hire a vehicle you need to check that your insurance covers any damage to the vehicle.....not just to 3rd parties.

 

If you have a crash, the first thing is to call the insurance man.....everyone else after that.

 

Do you realise that in Thailand unless stated otherwise priority is to traffic on the left?

 

The costs for repair or replacement you have been quoted are quite exorbitant. 

 

There are lessons to be learned here for anyone renting a bike.

You should have photographed the machine from all angles before you drove off. It certainly hasn't been maintained...there is rust around the wheel bearings.

There is no way that you can even be certain that all of the alleged damage occurred in your accident.

The guy is obviously scared and broke and hopes to bluster his way out of this as he probably on top of running an illegal business with no work permit has no insurance cover of his own.

Do you live on the island or are you visiting?

 

Please God say you didn't give him your passport!

 

There's no wayway this guy should get a penny...shouldn't be renting bikes and, obviously gas nostation idroad repair costs or he's trying to profit from your misfortune.

 

In the end depending on how much you settle for, even if you agree to his gouged prices, once away from the island you can name and shame.

He should realise in the long run, he's on a hiding to nothing.

It's over for him.

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Airbagwill

[ALFREDO]

13 hours ago, jane108 said:

.I asked them about insurance coverage, they say it only covers injuries of third parties. 

That is normal  ;-) 

 

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I declined when they informed me that the insurance does not cover damage. 

You found a shop then who insures bikes also against damage and even 1st class damage in Chiang Mai?

Which one does that? And how much higher in price then?

 

I know POPS Motorbikes for rent in Chiang Mai, I think biggest Company there, 800 Baht a day for new Yamaha 300+ cc

believe they have no 1st class insurance - not sure with normal damage insurance for second party.  

[keithpa]

8 hours ago, jane108 said:

Yes, thanks to everyone. I may give a brief update in the near future. Until then, have a nice weekend. :) 

Please dont. Done to death already.

[canuckamuck]

11 minutes ago, keithpa said:

Please dont. Done to death already.

Please do. And Keithpa find a different thread to troll, You don't think she should update her own thread?

[dfdgfdfdgs]

OP, which island are you on?

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

OP, which island are you on?

I would advise against giving too much info about your location. This guy is clearly unpredictable/unstable and appears to have already made (veiled?) threats .

Once you are clear then you could release details.

 

There is a lot in this episode that is relevant to tourists and others in Thailand who are thinking of casually renting motorcycles....or any other vehicle come to that.

 

Make sure you keep a good "diary" or written record detailing everything in case you need to resort to the law...or the press.

 

It seems to me the guy should settle for whatever he can get and shut down his operation to avoid further hassle.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Airbagwill

[Rc2702]

20 hours ago, jane108 said:

The bike was not rented from a shop. Rather from people I knew (a thai and foreigner husband) who had extra bikes that they rent out to make some extra money from. I live on an island....things are different.....I asked them about insurance coverage, they say it only covers injuries of third parties. 

You should not be paying for them damages and the guy is on crack to suggest the costs and this vintage statement sounds rubbish and a feeble way to get you to pay up.

 

Appreciate you live on an island so it is a more delicate matter.

 

10k to walk away and never rent from the guy again. I'd take it but I'd never rent from them again. Bikes are very cheap. Purchased 1 to ride onto my Mrs families farm. Paid 11k for it 2 years ago. Never had an issue.

 

Could have been a lot worse. I'm surprised the owner is farang and trying to swindle long term customers. 

 

 

[dfdgfdfdgs]

48 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

10k to walk away and never rent from the guy again. I'd take it

 

People giving in to unreasonable demands is why these scams keep happening.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

50 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

You should not be paying for them damages

 

Who should be paying for them, then?

[dfdgfdfdgs]

52 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I would advise against giving too much info about your location. This guy is clearly unpredictable/unstable and appears to have already made (veiled?) threats .

 

Not sure why the OP can't say which island they are on?  Unless you're suggesting the guy could be reading this in which case enough info has already been given for him to know this thread is about him.

[wazzupnow]

On 1/25/2018 at 6:01 PM, richard_smith237 said:

As your husband let the Thai drive off heis responsible for the damage unless you can locate the other party...   it also seems like the person who rented the bike to you is trying to profit.

 

1) Take the bike away and have it fixed yourself. 

 

2) Then buy an old Honda Dream for yourself so you are not reliant on someone trying to rip you off. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/110585945628334/search?query=Honda Dream

 

 

 

 

the only way to do this

by the way the dreams are very popular,on cm motorcycle market no dreams below 17000

but than they are in a very good shape

a new supercub(dream)is only 37000 bht

so your bike renter must be very gready, or very drunk

[Rc2702]

Just now, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

People giving in to unreasonable demands is why these scams keep happening.

It's not about the scam it's their home so an island life needs to be trod a bit more delicately IMO. They have damaged the bike so 10k is peanuts in this situation and if all can walk away from incident with no issue. Small price to pay.

[canuckamuck]

4 hours ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

OP, which island are you on?

Well the guy renting out the bike is on fantasy Island. I don't think a Dream even cost 30k new 20 years ago. It is pretty obvious he is trying to intimidate and rip off the OP. Personally I would have taken it to the police already. But island police might be more bent then the guy she is having the issue with.

The OP should find a capable arbitrator supply them with the facts and authorize them to make a deal with a set limit.

Edited January 27, 2018 by canuckamuck