Bikeman93 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Has anyone been impacted by the non resident rule and the removal of the tax free threshold and application of a 32% flat tax? Link to comment
maprao Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Has anyone been impacted by the non resident rule and the removal of the tax free threshold and application of a 32% flat tax?What are you referring to ?Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment
Bikeman93 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ A foreign (non) resident is an Australian who spends half the year overseas. Then a flat tax of 32% applies on all Australian earned income. Link to comment
gk10002000 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 2/5/2018 at 10:31 AM, Bikeman93 said: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ A foreign (non) resident is an Australian who spends half the year overseas. Then a flat tax of 32% applies on all Australian earned income. What the heck? I thought the USA had some interesting tax things, and things like how to qualify for tax exemption while living over seas. Here it sound like Australia is doing the exact opposite. 32% seems pretty high, especially since for 6 months work one would probably not be making too much money and would be in a lower tax bracket. But it says "earned income" so I assume Oz tax man wouldn't count investment income, dividends, interest etc. So if one were retired outside of Oz, the 32% would not be an issue, but if one went out and back in and worked, wow. 32% Link to comment
OJAS Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 All this sounds a bit like the proposal which HMRC floated a while back to deny UK tax non-residents entitlement to the annual personal tax-free allowance. Fortunately for us British expats this proposal was booted into the long grass - although ominous-sounding murmurings were made at the time about the possibility of reviving it at some point in the future. But thanks to more pressing Brexit priorities for Her Majesy's Government it is to be hoped that any revival would now sink even further into the deep horizon. Link to comment
salavan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 07/02/2018 at 1:38 PM, OJAS said: All this sounds a bit like the proposal which HMRC floated a while back to deny UK tax non-residents entitlement to the annual personal tax-free allowance. Fortunately for us British expats this proposal was booted into the long grass - although ominous-sounding murmurings were made at the time about the possibility of reviving it at some point in the future. But thanks to more pressing Brexit priorities for Her Majesy's Government it is to be hoped that any revival would now sink even further into the deep horizon. and the removal of the facist moron George Osborne also helped Link to comment
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/5/2018 at 10:31 AM, Bikeman93 said: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ A foreign (non) resident is an Australian who spends half the year overseas. Then a flat tax of 32% applies on all Australian earned income. Well, is your earned income "Australian Earned Income"? On 2/6/2018 at 11:42 PM, gk10002000 said: What the heck? I thought the USA had some interesting tax things, and things like how to qualify for tax exemption while living over seas. Here it sound like Australia is doing the exact opposite. 32% seems pretty high, especially since for 6 months work one would probably not be making too much money and would be in a lower tax bracket. But it says "earned income" so I assume Oz tax man wouldn't count investment income, dividends, interest etc. So if one were retired outside of Oz, the 32% would not be an issue, but if one went out and back in and worked, wow. 32% They used to be very lax, but they changed the rules a few years ago. The USA we have to spend 330 days outside the USA to qualify for the exclusion, but Oz WAS 180 days. Now, nope. The UK is still 180 days I believe. So it used to be the USA was the worst but now its UK, USA, then Oz. And I believe when they enacted this law, they back-dated it a few years as well. I know a couple guys offshore that got mega-screwed by it. Link to comment
Bikeman93 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 3:42 PM, gk10002000 said: What the heck? I thought the USA had some interesting tax things, and things like how to qualify for tax exemption while living over seas. Here it sound like Australia is doing the exact opposite. 32% seems pretty high, especially since for 6 months work one would probably not be making too much money and would be in a lower tax bracket. But it says "earned income" so I assume Oz tax man wouldn't count investment income, dividends, interest etc. So if one were retired outside of Oz, the 32% would not be an issue, but if one went out and back in and worked, wow. 32% They dangle the carrot, let some get the carrot, then fry them with the carrot Link to comment
OJAS Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, salavan said: and the removal of the facist moron George Osborne also helped As well as the right and proper outcome of the Brexit referendum, of course. Link to comment
Bikeman93 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: Well, is your earned income "Australian Earned Income"? They used to be very lax, but they changed the rules a few years ago. The USA we have to spend 330 days outside the USA to qualify for the exclusion, but Oz WAS 180 days. Now, nope. The UK is still 180 days I believe. So it used to be the USA was the worst but now its UK, USA, then Oz. And I believe when they enacted this law, they back-dated it a few years as well. I know a couple guys offshore that got mega-screwed by it. I cant see anywhere where it says "earned income", just says income. Correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Bikeman93 said: I cant see anywhere where it says "earned income", just says income. Correct me if I am wrong. Says exactly that in your second post. Post number 3 in here. Literally the last 3 words of it: On 2/5/2018 at 10:31 AM, Bikeman93 said: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ A foreign (non) resident is an Australian who spends half the year overseas. Then a flat tax of 32% applies on all Australian earned income. Reads to me like if it isn’t Australian earned Income then you’d be a lot better off. AUSTRALIAN earned income = money MADE in OZ. Link to comment
Bikeman93 Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 14 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: Says exactly that in your second post. Post number 3 in here. Literally the last 3 words of it: Reads to me like if it isn’t Australian earned Income then you’d be a lot better off. AUSTRALIAN earned income = money MADE in OZ. Yeah, I know. I am confused too. Damn semantics. Tax used to be about numbers. Link to comment
BEVUP Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just been browsing the AU Gov Tax site This comment is just for people that still work in Auss alone The way I see it there is no need to worry about this 183 day rule since you still live in Auss If you did go overseas for work you have to declare any earnings (taxed or not ) , as this will determine your Medicare & other payments A non Resident is a person who takes up a permanent address (maybe like your own condo here ) OR has declared themselves leaving Auss permanently THIS IS BRIEF Link to comment
BEVUP Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 11:42 AM, gk10002000 said: What the heck? I thought the USA had some interesting tax things, and things like how to qualify for tax exemption while living over seas. Here it sound like Australia is doing the exact opposite. 32% seems pretty high, especially since for 6 months work one would probably not be making too much money and would be in a lower tax bracket. But it says "earned income" so I assume Oz tax man wouldn't count investment income, dividends, interest etc. So if one were retired outside of Oz, the 32% would not be an issue, but if one went out and back in and worked, wow. 32% All income is taxable in Auss including interest/dividends ect Link to comment
BEVUP Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/8/2018 at 7:58 PM, UncleTouchyFingers said: I know a couple guys offshore that got mega-screwed by it. Yes Auss dropped all privileges for working overseas - It is all declarable (taxed or untaxed ) They were probably only paying 10 % tax or whatever the deal was, but since the 180 day limit was dropped they're open to the full tax upto 50% About the non resident 183 days = This is what the yanks done on the rigs in nth West Auss Since they were non residents they would of had to pay full Auss taxes if they stayed more then 183 days (in a year) so guess what They had yearly shifts that didn't allow this Link to comment
UncleTouchyFingers Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BEVUP said: Yes Auss dropped all privileges for working overseas - It is all declarable (taxed or untaxed ) They were probably only paying 10 % tax or whatever the deal was, but since the 180 day limit was dropped they're open to the full tax upto 50% About the non resident 183 days = This is what the yanks done on the rigs in nth West Auss Since they were non residents they would of had to pay full Auss taxes if they stayed more then 183 days (in a year) so guess what They had yearly shifts that didn't allow this When I worked in Bass Straight we worked whatever (over 240 days/year) and the company paid our taxes on our behalf to OZ (our take home wages never changed) and when they dont, they calculate OZ tax so that when paid, we stall walk with the same take home pay. (Im American) And because we were working in OZ, and because we were "paying tax" already to OZ, Americans got a tax credit in the US. Example: if you are working in Thailand and getting paid in Thailand and paying tax on that income in Thailand then even in Oz you get credits/deductions for the tax paid in Thailand. No country that I know of double taxes income. No matter what though you have to declare all your money, but what you end up paying in tax is gonna be lower if you already pay in another country. Thats what I'm asking in that another post: If its money made in OZ you will be taxed differently than if its money made in another country and taxes paid on it to that other country. But anyway as far as OP goes he needs to do a ton of reading or spend a couple hundred dollars and hire an accountant to explain/do his taxes for him at least for a year or 2. Link to comment
BEVUP Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: When I worked in Bass Straight we worked whatever (over 240 days/year) and the company paid our taxes on our behalf to OZ (our take home wages never changed) and when they dont, they calculate OZ tax so that when paid, we stall walk with the same take home pay. (Im American) And because we were working in OZ, and because we were "paying tax" already to OZ, Americans got a tax credit in the US. Example: if you are working in Thailand and getting paid in Thailand and paying tax on that income in Thailand then even in Oz you get credits/deductions for the tax paid in Thailand. No country that I know of double taxes income. No matter what though you have to declare all your money, but what you end up paying in tax is gonna be lower if you already pay in another country. Thats what I'm asking in that another post: If its money made in OZ you will be taxed differently than if its money made in another country and taxes paid on it to that other country. But anyway as far as OP goes he needs to do a ton of reading or spend a couple hundred dollars and hire an accountant to explain/do his taxes for him at least for a year or 2. Yes fully understand that But in the OP's case he shouldn't have anything to worry about unless he has done something that would declare him a non resident, & being out of the country for more then 183 days doesn't automatically make you a Non Resident As you mentioned the bit about tax credits/ ect, it may to well work for an Aussie as well or have a reverse affect But it does state for sure (tax law ) that they will calculate your Medicare/child payment ect of your full world income from any source As you mentioned he needs to seek professional advice PS: I will be in the same situation as I have holidayed out of Auss since 1st July 2017 so that's 7 mths but i still have a residence I can immediately access so there still a resident Link to comment
Nakrob Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Nothing new here. If you're non res then the blanket rate applies to all income that is generated in Aus, for example rental income on a property in Aus that you kept after leaving the country for 2+ years thus becoming 'non res' for tax purposes. Link to comment
ELVIS123456 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 No change - same as it has been for years in Aus. This will tell you if you are a non-resident for tax purposes. You have to take the test as if you are just about to leave. https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Host/?anchor=DORSLA&anchor=DORSLA/questions#DORSLA/questions For tax residency there are several key factors: Permanency of leaving Citizen/Born Staying in the same place Staying for more than 2 years Link to comment
isaantony Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I wrote an article about this very topic plus other financial considerations Australians should be aware of when deciding to move to Thialand here http://tonyinthailand.com/australians-moving-overseas-beware/ I would be interested to here of your thoughts. Link to comment
Nakrob Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I wrote an article about this very topic plus other financial considerations Australians should be aware of when deciding to move to Thialand here http://tonyinthailand.com/australians-moving-overseas-beware/ I would be interested to here of your thoughts.Good article Tony, and good website - I'll read your blogs with interest. While not retired yet I'm already aware of the unfavourable implications of being a non resident when drawing an income in Aus (I'm currently non res). However, as a resident the implications in my case are also unfavourable as "worldwide income" is included as taxable income which means getting stung for tax on UK income (which isn't taxed in the UK as it's below my personal allowance level). Can't win either way! Link to comment
Scott Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 A post with a racial slur has been reported and removed. Link to comment
Dumbastheycome Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 11:42 AM, gk10002000 said: What the heck? I thought the USA had some interesting tax things, and things like how to qualify for tax exemption while living over seas. Here it sound like Australia is doing the exact opposite. 32% seems pretty high, especially since for 6 months work one would probably not be making too much money and would be in a lower tax bracket. But it says "earned income" so I assume Oz tax man wouldn't count investment income, dividends, interest etc. So if one were retired outside of Oz, the 32% would not be an issue, but if one went out and back in and worked, wow. 32% The nominal tax on "un earned " income is usually about that. Earned income varies between 20 and over 32 depending on income level. Then add GST when you come to spend what you have already paid tax on !!unless you are a rich basket and get tax breaks and/or lower income tax on anything over and above what the average sucker gets. The Australian Government is demonstrating it's objection to anyone who spends $ outside of the tax net. After all you can just imagine what a struggle it is to balance out the cost of housing and feeding boat people etc and increasing Parliamentary salaries for doing such a fine job without doing financial damage to the rich who keep you in place ! Now that would just not be fair dinkum ! Link to comment
Ban Phe Dezza Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/8/2018 at 7:58 PM, UncleTouchyFingers said: Well, is your earned income "Australian Earned Income"? They used to be very lax, but they changed the rules a few years ago. The USA we have to spend 330 days outside the USA to qualify for the exclusion, but Oz WAS 180 days. Now, nope. The UK is still 180 days I believe. So it used to be the USA was the worst but now its UK, USA, then Oz. And I believe when they enacted this law, they back-dated it a few years as well. I know a couple guys offshore that got mega-screwed by it. Technically I think the aged Pension is possibly subject to the tax not that they enforce it to my Knowledge Link to comment
simoh1490 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 It's a sign of the times. The US has now removed the Personal Exemption for any non-resident Green Card holders, for retirees in this category, this means their monthly social security (aka SSc Pension) is now taxable at 24.5% - expect the UK to follow suit by removing the personal exemption for non-residents. Link to comment
biggles45 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I seem to recall reading that in addition to these changes they scrapped the capital gains tax concession for tax non residents as well ? Link to comment
simoh1490 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just now, biggles45 said: I seem to recall reading that in addition to these changes they scrapped the capital gains tax concession for tax non residents as well ? Indeed. Link to comment
GTgrizzly Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 6/02/2018 at 1:31 AM, Bikeman93 said: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ A foreign (non) resident is an Australian who spends half the year overseas. Then a flat tax of 32% applies on all Australian earned income. Fur king hell, just when I'm about 4 months of moving to LOS they drop this on us Good onya ATO thanks for nothin Link to comment
Russell17au Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 It is probably to work out your yearly Medicare contribution from your yearly gross income Link to comment
Russell17au Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, GTgrizzly said: Fur king hell, just when I'm about 4 months of moving to LOS they drop this on us Good onya ATO thanks for nothin Don't blame the ATO, it has come from higher up the ladder, try Government House, Canberra. Link to comment
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