Israel launches heavy Syria strikes after F-16 crashes

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Seems my source was not reliable, sorry, can't find any confirmation.

 

Also did not find any confirmation of drone shot down over Israel btw, only source for that seems to be the Israeli military.

Thanks for your refreshing honesty. 

[Grouse]

By what right does Benjamin Netanyahu order major air strikes on targets in Syria? Has Israel suffered strikes from Syria or its allies? A totally unnecessary escalation IMHO.

[dexterm]

You just gotta ask yourself in whose interest is this confrontation? Iran and Syria don't need a war with Israel right now...stretches their resources ultra thin and would upset USA already hankering to cancel deals; but not quite the same scenario the other way around though.

 

“There is no incentive for the Iranians, Syrians or Russians to draw the Israelis into a military situation that has been moving in their favor for some time,” said Stephen B. Slick, a former C.I.A. station chief in Israel who now directs the Intelligence Studies Project at the University of Texas at Austin.

“I fail to see the logic behind the Iranians sending a drone to Israel,” said Ehud Yaari, an Israeli television analyst of Arab affairs and an Israel-based fellow of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “They have other priorities right now in Syria.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/10/world/middleeast/israel-iran-syria.html

 

Was the drone headed towards Tel Aviv with a full payload, did it just skirt the illegally annexed border inadvertently for 90 seconds, or did it even cross the border?

"The Syrian military and its allies denied that the drone violated Israel's airspace, Syria's state-run SANA news agency reported. 

The joint operations room, run by Syria, Iran, Russia and Hezbollah, said the aircraft was on a regular mission gathering intelligence on fighters of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL)."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/israel-fighter-jet-crash-ratchets-regional-tensions-180210165047222.html

 

It appears Israel is the only one who can choose whom Syria is allowed to have as allies. So when Israel attacks Syria as it has been doing for the last 6 years over 100 times, and sends its own drones over neighboring countries repeatedly for the last decade, that's called self defense, but when Syria has the temerity to fire back at a hostile power invading its soveriegn territory , Israel calls it the aggressor. What amazing chutzpah; just another example of  Israel's ability to call black white.

 

How about attempting to make peace with your neighbors based on the return of illegally annexed territories, rather than provoke them into yet another wider escalation?

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

By what right does Benjamin Netanyahu order major air strikes on targets in Syria? Has Israel suffered strikes from Syria or its allies? A totally unnecessary escalation IMHO.

 

Do try and follow the timeline on this one. First an Iranian UAV flying from Syria being intercepted in Israel's territory. Then a retaliatory airstrike against Iranian and Syrian targets.

[dexterm]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Do try and follow the timeline on this one. First an Iranian UAV flying from Syria being intercepted in Israel's territory. Then a retaliatory airstrike against Iranian and Syrian targets.

The timeline is that Israel has been provocatively bombing Syria repeatedly for the last 6 years. This time the bully Israel got a bloody nose so all hell breaks loose, while they whine  "Whatd'we do to deserve this?"

Edited February 11, 2018 by dexterm

[Naam]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

The Iranian drone entered Israeli territory , hence it was shot down .

the Israeli F16 entered Syrian territory, hence it was shot down.

[tukkytuktuk]

 

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

the Israeli F16 entered Syrian territory, hence it was shot down.

Yes, the Israeli  jet entered Syrian airspace to destroy the drone launching vehicle and after the Israeli f 16 got shot down, other Israeli F16s went back into Syria to destroy where those missiles came from

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

The quoted bit from Slick, when read in context, is IMO more related to sides interests in avoiding further escalation, rather than supporting your routine insinuations. And with all due respect to the opinions cited, they both refer to Iran's decision making as if its free of conflicting interests or miscalculations (addressed in more detail on previous post).

 

The Iranian UAV was shot down near Kfar Ruppin. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with the geography. Not quite  what you try to push. If it was just patrolling over the border, then it was in Jordanian territory. I don't think that there was any claim raised about it being headed to Tel Aviv, just more of your usual irrelevant nonsense. I would venture that had Syria intercepted an Israeli UAV, you would not accept such spurious comments and excuses as you now make.

 

Israel is not obligated to seat back and let Iran do whatever it feels like. If Syria chooses to actively ally itself with Iran, and act as a forward base for Iranian interests, it is not surprising that this could carry consequences. Ignoring the context of Israel's attacks in Syria (usually countering advanced arms transfer, often Iranian, to Hezbollah) is a lame attempt to minimize Iran's role in the situation.

 

If you were actually even half bothered about the situation escalating as such, you might have addressed the issue of Iranian actions not conforming to this notion. But, as expected, one-sided misleading vehemence is all that's on offer.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The timeline is that Israel has been provocatively bombing Syria repeatedly for the last 6 years. This time the bully Israel got a bloody nose so all hell breaks loose, while they whine  "Whatd'we do to deserve this?"

 

Some may say that the provocation is from Iran and Syria's side, by trying to provide advanced arms to the Hezbollah. Obviously, you see nothing wrong with that. If Israel was intent on bombing Syria per se for 6 years, the consequences would have been far worse by now.  Other than in your post, the focus of the OP and most related stories covering this isn't about your characterizations of Israel. But if you want to go there - Syria acting as staging ground for Iranian interests, then whine when things hit the fan. Cuts both ways. Seems you have little to offer on this topic other than your usual irrelevant rants.

[Thorgal]

Yes, the Israeli  jet entered Syrian airspace to destroy the drone launching vehicle and after the Israeli f 16 got shot down, other Israeli F16s went back into Syria to destroy where those missiles came from

The drone launching vehicle was destroyed after the supposed Iranian UAV was shot down.

Looks like unarmed soldiers have been attacked...and that once more for the IDF, the Conventions of Geneva are only applicable within the Canton of Geneva...


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[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Do try and follow the timeline on this one. First an Iranian UAV flying from Syria being intercepted in Israel's territory. Then a retaliatory airstrike against Iranian and Syrian targets.

So a single drone crossed the border and was shot down. A retaliatory attack resulted in an Israeli aircraft being shot down. In response, Israel launches 8 massive attacks far to the North of Damascus. 

 

Israel think it can still act with impunity. They have launched hundreds of strikes against a sovereign state. This needs to stop NOW.

 

Israel should give up its nuclear  arsenal and cease being aggressive to its neighbours. One day Iran MIGHT just bite back.

[FitnessHealthTravel]

I love all the comments and people's interpretation of what seems like a pretty straightforward story to me. However I do agree there is this 'tit for tat' proxy war going on in Syria that has nothing to do with Syria.

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, the Israeli  jet entered Syrian airspace to destroy the drone launching vehicle and after the Israeli f 16 got shot down, other Israeli F16s went back into Syria to destroy where those missiles came from

One drone, 8 targets?

[Thorgal]

 
[mention=171721]Thorgal[/mention]
 

The Iranian UAV is not "supposed", other than in your post. There's a a released clip featuring the interception, and pictures of the debris.

 

As for the Iranian UAV and the Israeli aircraft being shot down "above the Golan Heights" - again seems to be creative license on your part. The UAV goes for your claim that it was shot "above the Golan Heights". The Iranian UAV was intercepted near the town of Beit Shean. There were no clear reports as to where the Israeli aircraft was actually hit.

 
 

Image and date parameters of the released IAF clip has been blurred...

Even so, supposed sending an Iranian drone flying on low altitude is very dubious. The suggested location in Israel makes it that we have to believe that it’s possible to fly or control flying stealth objects above Israel without interception.

Timeline of mass media coverage is rather suspicious if you qualify the supposed Iranian UAV as an act of war...and should be threatened without mass media coverage...

But, let’s suppose that Israel isn’t toppling the Iranian government for decades on numerous occasions and that false flags and mass deception is something new in the region...




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[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So a single drone crossed the border and was shot down. A retaliatory attack resulted in an Israeli aircraft being shot down. In response, Israel launches 8 massive attacks far to the North of Damascus. 

 

Israel think it can still act with impunity. They have launched hundreds of strikes against a sovereign state. This needs to stop NOW.

 

Israel should give up its nuclear  arsenal and cease being aggressive to its neighbours. One day Iran MIGHT just bite back.

 

A bit of context would help. This is not an isolated instance coming out of the blue. Tensions and provocations been building up for a long time. Goes to show how one incident can lead to another and before one knows it - war. Without it being in any party's best interests or without having a clear intention of starting one. Noticeably no criticism offered of Iran's actions in this instance.

 

Most of Israel's attacks in Syria are related to Iran and Syria's attempts to transfer advanced weapons systems to the Hezbollah. Obviously, some posters see that as legit (even though such weapons transfers are against relevant UN resolutions), and do not feel that these need to stop,

 

Israel will not give up its nuclear arsenal (which isn't even the topic) on the recommendation of  poster. As for being aggressive, it cuts both ways - whether posters like to acknowledge it or not.

 

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

The drone launching vehicle was destroyed after the supposed Iranian UAV was shot down.

Looks like unarmed soldiers have been attacked...and that once more for the IDF, the Conventions of Geneva are only applicable within the Canton of Geneva...


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Looks like you're playing let's-pretend-I'm-a-legal-expert again. Doubt as to your prowess on this front, or to your intimate knowledge of whether soldiers attacked were even armed or not. More made up nonsense.

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

The quoted bit from Slick, when read in context, is IMO more related to sides interests in avoiding further escalation, rather than supporting your routine insinuations. And with all due respect to the opinions cited, they both refer to Iran's decision making as if its free of conflicting interests or miscalculations (addressed in more detail on previous post).

 

The Iranian UAV was shot down near Kfar Ruppin. Look it up if you're unfamiliar with the geography. Not quite  what you try to push. If it was just patrolling over the border, then it was in Jordanian territory. I don't think that there was any claim raised about it being headed to Tel Aviv, just more of your usual irrelevant nonsense. I would venture that had Syria intercepted an Israeli UAV, you would not accept such spurious comments and excuses as you now make.

 

Israel is not obligated to seat back and let Iran do whatever it feels like. If Syria chooses to actively ally itself with Iran, and act as a forward base for Iranian interests, it is not surprising that this could carry consequences. Ignoring the context of Israel's attacks in Syria (usually countering advanced arms transfer, often Iranian, to Hezbollah) is a lame attempt to minimize Iran's role in the situation.

 

If you were actually even half bothered about the situation escalating as such, you might have addressed the issue of Iranian actions not conforming to this notion. But, as expected, one-sided misleading vehemence is all that's on offer.

 

Kfar Ruppin is just a knat's inside Israeli territory. How far did Israeli war planes go inside Syria? It's just too much. No balance. Just leads to unnecessary conflict.

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

One drone, 8 targets?

 

12 in total, unless mistaken. As far as I understand, there were two separate attack waves. The first was directed mainly against Iranian targets. The Israeli aircraft was hit by a Syrian SAM on the return journey, which led for another wave targeting Syrian air-defenses. I think the point was to draw a clear line, rather than allow for some "accepted" tit-for-tat scale to develop.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Image and date parameters of the released IAF clip has been blurred...

Even so, supposed sending an Iranian drone flying on low altitude is very dubious. The suggested location in Israel makes it that we have to believe that it’s possible to fly or control flying stealth objects above Israel without interception.

Timeline of mass media coverage is rather suspicious if you qualify the supposed Iranian UAV as an act of war...and should be threatened without mass media coverage...

But, let’s suppose that Israel isn’t toppling the Iranian government for decades on numerous occasions and that false flags and mass deception is something new in the region...




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Well, I guess short of handing over flight data and records for your "expert" examination, nothing would do. Iranian and Syrian claims are accepted on their good word and history of credibility, though.

 

Dubious would be a good descriptor of your posts veracity. The IDF and IAF briefings said the UAV was tracked before it entered Israeli territory, which would explain the attack helicopter ready for interception. As the UAV was intercepted and shot out of the sky, the conclusion would be that it is not all that simple to "fly or control flying stealth objects above Israel without interception".

 

The usual mumbo jumbo about suspicious "mass media coverage" is the same sort of pointless posting. Same goes for the comments about Israel "toppling" the Iranian government or general meaningless assertions about false flags. There's a rather less complicated context, which been out in the open for quite a while - trying to spin conspiracy theories is unnecessary.

 

 

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Kfar Ruppin is just a knat's inside Israeli territory. How far did Israeli war planes go inside Syria? It's just too much. No balance. Just leads to unnecessary conflict.

 

It's near the border with Jordan. A different country than Syria. A 20km bee line from the nearest Syrian border (and that's with crossing over Jordanian territory). The control element attacked was over 200m within Syrian territory. If the apparent logic behind the irrelevant "balance" suggested was to be applied, Israel ought to have attacked a non-related target just across the border - what was the point, again? How is carrying out a UAV incursion in Israeli territory not a move which "leads to unnecessary conflict"?

 

 

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It's near the border with Jordan. A different country than Syria. A 20km bee line from the nearest Syrian border (and that's with crossing over Jordanian territory). The control element attacked was over 200m within Syrian territory. If the apparent logic behind the irrelevant "balance" suggested was to be applied, Israel ought to have attacked a non-related target just across the border - what was the point, again? How is carrying out a UAV incursion in Israeli territory not a move which "leads to unnecessary conflict"?

 

 

I give up. Israel can do no wrong as far as you are concerned. Good night all ...

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I give up. Israel can do no wrong as far as you are concerned. Good night all ...

You're lucky not to have been called an anti-Semite yet, which is the standard reply to any Israel criticism.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I give up. Israel can do no wrong as far as you are concerned. Good night all ...

 

You give up because you cannot make your point relying on facts or logic. I haven't said anything about "Israel can do no wrong" - may want to check the first words I posted in this topic. I'm not in the opinion that anything related to Israel is solely Israel's fault. I'm not into the one-sided views some posters seem to hold on whenever anything of the sort comes up.

 

 

[Air Smiles]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I give up. Israel can do no wrong as far as you are concerned. Good night all ...

 

There is no point talking to extremists.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.   Continued baiting will result in suspensions. 

[Thorgal]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Looks like you're playing let's-pretend-I'm-a-legal-expert again. Doubt as to your prowess on this front, or to your intimate knowledge of whether soldiers attacked were even armed or not. More made up nonsense.

 

Again, the supposed Iranian UAV was used for probably observatory purposes. No problem here with any Convention of Geneva. UAV means Unmanned Aerial Vehicle and in this case it's not yet defined if it was loaded with ammunition and/or missiles.

 

While sending a few F-16's with precision bombing capacities to strike 12 (strangely well known) targets in Syria is rather exagerated and provocative as other posters mentioned earlier. A clear act of war.

 

The supposed Iranian UAV "presence" is in my humble POV innocent, while the deadly and recidivist IAF "incursion" into Syria was premeditated due to the 12 well known targets through sattelite observation spying.

 

At least, higher military Northern region staff from IAF should be subjected to degradation, read replacement. One for letting supposedly an Iranian UAV deeply adventuring in its airspace and two for allowing the very old type of S-125 surface-to-air-missile eliminating one hyper modern tuned F-16.

 

It has not been reported yet that the 12 target locations in Syria received an Israeli  warning phone call and/or an SMS warning prior to the IAF strikes. Any junior legal pretender could claim otherwise that latest IAF incursion in Syria wasn't a war crime...due to the warning...

 

So far, my legal advise.

 

[boomerangutang]

If I had to choose between whether Syrian or Israeli authorities are telling the truth, I would pick the latter.  

If this was like old times (hundreds of years ago), Israel would see Syria's weakness (fighting internecine wars) and simply roll in and annex Syria.  

[Thorgal]

Yes, the Israeli  jet entered Syrian airspace to destroy the drone launching vehicle and after the Israeli f 16 got shot down, other Israeli F16s went back into Syria to destroy where those missiles came from

No, the supposed Iranian UAV was shot down.

This was apparently enough to retaliate with 8 Israeli F-16’s into Syria and to bomb 12 targets.

The Syrian Air defense didn’t like that and fired an old surface-to-air missile which brought down one of 8 Israeli F-16’s.

Quote from link:

“In response to the sighting of the drone crossing into Israeli-occupied territory, the Israeli air force, including 8 planes, struck the base which the Israeli military said operated the unmanned aircraft.

The attack prompted a response from the Syrian Air Defense system, which after firing on the Israeli jets, shot down an Israeli F-16 fighter jet over northern Israel, as it was returning from a bombing raid.

The jet came down near kibbutz Harduf, east of Haifa, and the two pilots operating the plane ejected and were injured, one of them critically.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2018_Israel–Syria_incident



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[Naam]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

You're lucky not to have been called an anti-Semite yet, which is the standard reply to any Israel criticism.

i might not agree with Morch's argumentation but hitting back like this is not his style.