'Numerous fatalities' at Florida high school after ex-student opens fire

[Jingthing]

Chauvinistic Americans don't get basic things we can learn from other countries. Such as gun control and universal health care. It is truly tragic.

 

They think they know better. They do not. They squawk about American exceptionalism while being blind to the fact that's crystal clear to the rest of the world - - that on number of important issues the USA is exceptionally bad and backwards.

 

I don't hate USA. I love it enough to think it could be much better.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Yes, there are words.

 

Stop promoting a culture of guns and start implementing policies to keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them.

 

When you have 18 school shootings in a year (so far), it is time to admit that you have a serious problem, and that the steps you have taken to date are not working.

 

To all the gun people out there; 

 

HOW MANY MORE UNTIL YOU SUPPORT SOME CHANGES TO GUN LAWS?

 

In a country with 350 million people, many of whom are armed, love guns and will never elect a politician that advocates gun control just how effective will your "solution" be?

The one thing that will work in reality, having armed guards in school draws immediate condemnation from those that think solving the problem is having a love in and a candle ceremony.

The only thing that will stop someone with a gun that wants to kill lots of people is other people with a gun, which is why US police have guns and SWAT.

 

Either way, expect more such, and more hand wringing before something actually gets done.

[Jingthing]

I have a hypothetical question. If there was a mass school shooting in the USA every school day would anything change? I honestly don't think so. The gun nut culture is that ingrained.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Staff and students told local media that a fire alarm went off around the time the shooting started, sparking chaos as some 3,000 students at the school first headed into hallways before teachers herded them back into classrooms, to seek shelter in closets.

 

9 hours ago, webfact said:

The school had recently held a meeting to discuss what to do in such an attack, Ryan Gott, a 15-year-old freshman told CNN.

I guess the students weren't paying any attention at the meeting then.

[JimmyJ]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have a hypothetical question. If there was a mass school shooting in the USA every school day would anything change? I honestly don't think so. The gun nut culture is that ingrained.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Nothing will happen because of the politicians and their connection to the gun lobby.

 

America has the best politicians money can buy. (Along with every other country).

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by JimmyJ

[jvs]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In a country with 350 million people, many of whom are armed, love guns and will never elect a politician that advocates gun control just how effective will your "solution" be?

The one thing that will work in reality, having armed guards in school draws immediate condemnation from those that think solving the problem is having a love in and a candle ceremony.

The only thing that will stop someone with a gun that wants to kill lots of people is other people with a gun, which is why US police have guns and SWAT.

 

Either way, expect more such, and more hand wringing before something actually gets done.

You are beyond help,i hope you don't have a gun but i hope you are not being serious.

Edited February 15, 2018 by jvs

[spidermike007]

If anyone was serious about starting the battle against gun control, they would start by outlawing the NRA, one of the most heinous, and dangerous organizations to ever operate legally. Then they could make it illegal for a lobbyist of the gun industry to be within a mile of the very white house. Arrest him, and lock him up for a mandatory 10 years, instead of paying him $300,000 a year, and inviting him to White House dinners. 

 

I have no issues with someone being able to possess one handgun, or one rifle or shotgun, for hunting or self protection. With a deep background check, and a waiting period. But it is so easy to procure weapons in the US. The US now has more weapons in the hands of civilians, than any other nation on earth. It is sickening. It says alot about America. 

 

Overall, Americans own an estimated 265 million guns – more than one gun for every American adult, according to the study by researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Half of those guns – 133 million – were in the hands of just 3% of American adults, so-called “super owners” who possessed an average of 17 guns each, it showed.

The survey, the most authoritative since a 1994 study posed similar questions to gun owners, is under peer-review for publication in a trade journal. Summaries of the study were released this week to the Guardian and The Trace news outlets.

The findings include:

 

• An estimated 55 million Americans own guns.
• The percentage of the U.S. population who own guns decreased slightly from 25% in 1994 to 22% last year.
• Between 300,000 and 600,000 guns are stolen each year.
• Gun owners tend to be white, male, conservative, and live in rural areas.
• 25% of gun owners in America are white or multi-racial, compared with 16% of Hispanics and 14% of African Americans.
• There are an estimated 111 million handguns nationwide, a 71% increase from the 65 million handguns in 1994.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

If anyone was serious about starting the battle against gun control, they would start by outlawing the NRA, one of the most heinous, and dangerous organizations to ever operate legally. Then they could make it illegal for a lobbyist of the gun industry to be within a mile of the very white house. Arrest him, and lock him up for a mandatory 10 years, instead of paying him $300,000 a year, and inviting him to White House dinners. 

 

I have no issues with someone being able to possess one handgun, or one rifle or shotgun, for hunting or self protection. With a deep background check, and a waiting period. But it is so easy to procure weapons in the US. The US now has more weapons in the hands of civilians, than any other nation on earth. It is sickening. It says alot about America. 

 

Overall, Americans own an estimated 265 million guns – more than one gun for every American adult, according to the study by researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Half of those guns – 133 million – were in the hands of just 3% of American adults, so-called “super owners” who possessed an average of 17 guns each, it showed.

The survey, the most authoritative since a 1994 study posed similar questions to gun owners, is under peer-review for publication in a trade journal. Summaries of the study were released this week to the Guardian and The Trace news outlets.

The findings include:

 

• An estimated 55 million Americans own guns.
• The percentage of the U.S. population who own guns decreased slightly from 25% in 1994 to 22% last year.
• Between 300,000 and 600,000 guns are stolen each year.
• Gun owners tend to be white, male, conservative, and live in rural areas.
• 25% of gun owners in America are white or multi-racial, compared with 16% of Hispanics and 14% of African Americans.
• There are an estimated 111 million handguns nationwide, a 71% increase from the 65 million handguns in 1994.

If anyone was serious about starting the battle against gun control, they would start by outlawing the NRA, one of the most heinous, and dangerous organizations to ever operate legally. Then they could make it illegal for a lobbyist of the gun industry to be within a mile of the very white house. Arrest him, and lock him up for a mandatory 10 years, instead of paying him $300,000 a year, and inviting him to White House dinners. 

None of which would get even as far as the SCOTUS, being unconstitutional.

 

Then they could make it illegal for a lobbyist of the gun industry to be within a mile of the very white house.

You don't seem to understand that congress makes the laws, not the W H. The NRA owns politicians of both parties, so fat chance of changing anything except minor stuff like bump stocks.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, jvs said:

You are beyond help,i hope you don't have a gun but i hope you are not being serious.

Of course I do. I was even issued several over the years by the government.

 

Entirely serious about having armed guards in schools.

[attrayant]

34 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have a hypothetical question. If there was a mass school shooting in the USA every school day would anything change?

 

Schools would quickly become maximum security facilities, like prisons, with ten-foot high double fences topped with razor wire.  Actually it would be more like a reverse-prison, because the good people are on the inside and homicidal murderers are running around free on the outside. Students would need to get there an hour early to get through security protocols, x-ray machines, bomb-sniffing dogs and pat-downs.  

[canuckamuck]

40 minutes ago, samran said:

So to summarise, it is a special kind of degradation going on in the US that is causing people to shoot up school kiddies....

 

Is that correct? 

Of course that is what I am saying. American culture is reacting differently to the culture war then other countries. At least one reason is obvious, America is obsessed with guns. But Britain is quite knifey these days and Sweden is quite rapey. Canada has a drama school teacher PM making virtue statements in place of economic policy.  So on and so on...

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Schools would quickly become maximum security facilities, like prisons, with ten-foot high double fences topped with razor wire.  Actually it would be more like a reverse-prison, because the good people are on the inside and homicidal murderers are running around free on the outside. Students would need to get there an hour early to get through security protocols, x-ray machines, bomb-sniffing dogs and pat-downs.  

Rather like flying El Al then.

 

More likely people would be schooled at home by computer linked to education hubs. Those that couldn't stay at home alone could go to small centres in their neighbourhood.

If it was like you say, they'd have to have high walls as well, as someone with a "big boy" gun could shoot from any high building far away.

[Jonnapat]

Every American citizen should be appalled by this latest of a very long list of mass murders.

Even more appalling is the fact that no one will do anything about it.

It's high time that the sacred second amendment to the Constitution allowing any Tom, Dick or Harry to roam freely with a firearm tucked into their pocket was 

rethought..

So many politicians in the grip of the ÑRA, so nobody should expect anything other than the slaughter to carry on unabated 

Very, very sad.

A 

[dunroaming]

"What do you want for your birthday son?"

"Can I have a AR-15 assault rifle and lots of ammo please dad?"

Sure thing son, now you go out and enjoy yourself!

 

Since 2013 there have been  300 school shootings.  Congratulations America for holding the world record!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Of course that is what I am saying. American culture is reacting differently to the culture war then other countries. At least one reason is obvious, America is obsessed with guns. But Britain is quite knifey these days and Sweden is quite rapey. Canada has a drama school teacher PM making virtue statements in place of economic policy.  So on and so on...

I know of at least one country where it is possible to own more or less as many long weapons as one wants ( even a 50 cal ) and where zero school shootings have occurred. It's definitely an American thing, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Every American citizen should be appalled by this latest of a very long list of mass murders.

Even more appalling is the fact that no one will do anything about it.

It's high time that the sacred second amendment to the Constitution allowing any Tom, Dick or Harry to roam freely with a firearm tucked into their pocket was 

rethought..

So many politicians in the grip of the ÑRA, so nobody should expect anything other than the slaughter to carry on unabated 

Very, very sad.

A 

Indeed. Up to the voters then.

[Gecko123]

People talk about "mental illness" being a big part of the problem - which it certainly is - but the final paroxysm of violence is just the tip of the iceberg. Lying below the surface is the tremendous social alienation festering in many American communities, particularly suburban communities, which are physically spread out, completely car oriented, and where both parents have to work in order to pay the mortgage. This leaves many people, especially the young, suffering in silence from social isolation and alienation, and early warning signs that a person is about to go off the deep end oftentimes go undetected.

[riclag]

18 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Every American citizen should be appalled by this latest of a very long list of mass murders.

Even more appalling is the fact that no one will do anything about it.

It's high time that the sacred second amendment to the Constitution allowing any Tom, Dick or Harry to roam freely with a firearm tucked into their pocket was 

rethought..

So many politicians in the grip of the ÑRA, so nobody should expect anything other than the slaughter to carry on unabated 

Very, very sad.

A 

We are appalled! What would you suggest we do ,that hasn't been discussed for the last 40 years.Do you think doing away or tinkering with #2 is going to solve the problem?Criminals and sickos are going to find the means to get a gun. AK's are already banned,that didn't stop that nutjob.

 

[Berkshire]

5 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

People talk about "mental illness" being a big part of the problem - which it certainly is - but the final paroxysm of violence is just the tip of the iceberg. Lying below the surface is the tremendous social alienation festering in many American communities, particularly suburban communities, which are physically spread out, completely car oriented, and where both parents have to work in order to pay the mortgage. This leaves many people, especially the young, suffering in silence from social isolation and alienation, and early warning signs that a person is about to go off the deep end oftentimes go undetected.

There's always going to be people who are disturbed...or mentally ill...or depressed...or angry....or jealous...or paranoid....or drunk....or on drugs....or just having a bad hair day.  The question is, do we give them easy access to guns?  That's it, and that's all.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory baiting posts and replies have been removed. 

[wayned]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I have a hypothetical question. If there was a mass school shooting in the USA every school day would anything change? I honestly don't think so. The gun nut culture is that ingrained.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, No, if that ever happened we would buy more guns to protect ourselves!

[jak2002003]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

?Criminals and sickos are going to find the means to get a gun. AK's are already banned,that didn't stop that nutjob.

 

But if the guns were much harder to get then surely you can see that the number of mass shootings and gun crime would naturally decline?

 

Criminals are always going to find a way to commit a crime... so in your view we should just legalise all weapons and let them get on with it?

 

The sad fact seems to be that most Americans love guns more than children.  

 

 

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, wayned said:

Unfortunately, No, if that ever happened we would buy more guns to protect ourselves!

And there you have the answer.  

[RickTik]

I give my sincere condolences to all the victims.

It will be interesting to find out what the "unspecified reasons" were for the shooter's previous expulsion. 

You don't just go on a shooting spree like that for no reason.

Was he bullied? Was the "disciplinary" charge legitimate?  

Let's hear what Nikolaus Cruz (the shooter) has to say.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by RickTik
link formal name with the shooter

[Gecko123]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

There's always going to be people who are disturbed...or mentally ill...or depressed...or angry....or jealous...or paranoid....or drunk....or on drugs....or just having a bad hair day.  The question is, do we give them easy access to guns?  That's it, and that's all.

I totally advocate tighter gun controls. The point of my post was that those who want to defend the second amendment to their dying breath need to consider the scope of the social problems driving these mass shootings. This is more than just a handful of people who feel socially marginalized and isolated. It's more like a silent epidemic. Unfettered access to guns may sound good on paper (the Constitution), but from a public safety standpoint the costs seem to be mounting ever higher.

[Gecko123]

On Valentine's Day, too. Heartbreaking.

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, RickTik said:

I give my sincere condolences to all the victims.

It will be interesting to find out what the "unspecified reasons" were for the shooter's previous expulsion. 

You don't just go on a shooting spree like that for no reason.

Was he bullied? Was the "disciplinary" charge legitimate?  

Let's hear what Nikolaus Cruz (the shooter) has to say.

 

 

Staggering post!  Lot's reported already about this person and why he was excluded from school including the way he was always threatening people.  Try reading the real details.

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

But if the guns were much harder to get then surely you can see that the number of mass shootings and gun crime would naturally decline?

 

Criminals are always going to find a way to commit a crime... so in your view we should just legalise all weapons and let them get on with it?

 

The sad fact seems to be that most Americans love guns more than children.  

 

 

Not at all, but armed guards patrolling schools would deter the potential offenders.

 

The number of school shootings this year are 19, and the number of weapons out there are in the multi millions. It takes but one gun to make 20.

Leaving schools undefended is tantamount to welcoming in the shooters.

[metisdead]

Offensive troll posts have been removed. 

[thaibeachlovers]

28 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I totally advocate tighter gun controls. The point of my post was that those who want to defend the second amendment to their dying breath need to consider the scope of the social problems driving these mass shootings. This is more than just a handful of people who feel socially marginalized and isolated. It's more like a silent epidemic. Unfettered access to guns may sound good on paper (the Constitution), but from a public safety standpoint the costs seem to be mounting ever higher.

Seems to me this is the classic case of public frenzy over a problem because it is an emotional one. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be taken seriously- it should, but in 2016 opioids killed over 42 THOUSAND Americans and there isn't anywhere near the debate about that than school shootings which in comparison killed hardly any people.

That isn't saying that school shootings are not horrific, but it's obvious that the US has some deep seated and truly awful problems that are not being dealt with and that comes down to congress not doing it's job. Time for them to get off their idle backsides, stop the partisan rhetoric and start working for their constituents.

Edited February 15, 2018 by thaibeachlovers