Billy Graham, preacher to millions, adviser to U.S. presidents, dies at 99

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Gillyflower said:

I attended at least two of his meetings in Sydney.  It's strange,  I didn't really  like him, there was something that repelled me, but he WAS magnetic.  When he appealed for people to stand up and let Christ into their hearts, people by the hundreds got up.  His meetings were full to overflowing.  Another thing that was striking, was that all his group were tall, handsome and extremely well dressed people.  A Godlike party!!!!!  He never had anyone 'ordinary' around him.  

One can understand then why people shouted 'sieg heil' to someone else in another era

[canuckamuck]

41 minutes ago, Becker said:

So you didn't get the impression Graham didn't get along well with President Obama. On what basis did you build that impression? Are you sure it wasn't wishful thinking?

 

I wasn't really disparaging the person Graham as much as I was your comment about him being "a hero of the faith". You do realize that this "hero" in all likelihood will not get to heaven (if indeed that place exists)? 

As the rock star of your particular superstition so bluntly put it: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (J. Christ.)

And Graham died a very rich man.

A reference to a gate in Jerusalem known as the eye of the needle. Notoriously difficult for traders to get their camels through the gate. Not impossible though. Jesus was explaining that riches can be a barrier to faith. A good illustration IMO.  

[Becker]

14 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

A reference to a gate in Jerusalem known as the eye of the needle. Notoriously difficult for traders to get their camels through the gate. Not impossible though. Jesus was explaining that riches can be a barrier to faith. A good illustration IMO.  

Not impossible? What a relief!!!

[Jingthing]

Graham once suggested the AIDS was a punishment from God. Then he apologized. At least he apologized. The type of right wing preachers that followed him would say stuff like that and never apologize. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

A reference to a gate in Jerusalem known as the eye of the needle. Notoriously difficult for traders to get their camels through the gate. Not impossible though. Jesus was explaining that riches can be a barrier to faith. A good illustration IMO.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle#Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle#Gate

 

 

[farcanell]

He played on people’s fears and used psychological terror to expand his faith.... terrorist.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

He played on people’s fears and used psychological terror to expand his faith.... terrorist.

 

More like insurance salesman.

[Gecko123]

Always felt his rather indiscriminate cozying up to whoever was in the Oval office detracted from rather than added to his moral authority.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Gecko123

[PREM-R]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle#Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle#Gate

 

 

Your links are interesting, I always assumed that the 'eye of a needle' story just meant "there's no pockets in shrouds".

[puck2]

13 minutes ago, farcanell said:

He played on people’s fears and used psychological terror to expand his faith.... terrorist.

 

...... that's the way religion/s  is/are  working.

[Jingthing]

Back in the day I remember I actually watched some of his "God" rallies on t.v. Not because I was open to his message but because he was a great showman. 

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, PREM-R said:

Your links are interesting, I always assumed that the 'eye of a needle' story just meant "there's no pockets in shrouds".

That's why people get buried in suits these days.

[Jack100]

Think I saw him in  Pattaya once  -  he was wearing a T - Shirt that said " God guys go to Heaven .......................

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

He had a good life, He is loved by his family and millions of other people. He became famous for his integrity and worked hard to make the world a better place according to his personal worldview. A man who inspired great respect and was known across the world and a personal friend and adviser to 12 presidents, although it can be assumed that meeting Obama was just a formality.

How's your legacy shaping up?

He was certainly a man who believed in what he was doing but so is the flat earther who wants to shoot himself up with a rocket to prove that the world is flat. He was an American evangelist which means he took the bible literally without much critical thought and thoroughly misunderstood the message of an enlightened man who would probably be horrified of what has become of his teachings.

 

His true message was no different from that of the 3 to 4,000 year old teachings of Advaita Vedanta or those of the Buddha 600 years before him. Alone the teaching 'deny yourself' is the same, there is no 'you' it is a mind concept, there is only wholeness, the oneness, for which he had to use the word God instead of consciouness or awareness hence 'love thy neighbour as yourself', because it is yourself. I think it was the famous Indian mystic of the 20th century Ramana Maharshi who, pointing with one hand to heaven and the other to the world said, ''i am that", Jesus said "I am the light of the world" which he later changed to "You are the light of the world", no difference to Maharshi.

 

The difference between Jesus, the Buddha and  Graham was that the first two were poor and Graham was very rich, Billy had a good earthly life because maybe he lost himself in his misunderstanding of the teachings of the enlightened man Jesus and preached a caricature of the revelation, one could say, forgive him for he knew not what he did.

Edited February 22, 2018 by soalbundy

[evadgib]

Listen to what Phil Collins & Genesis made of that Malarky during their 'We can't dance' tour in 92 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by evadgib

[canuckamuck]

19 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

He was certainly a man who believed in what he was doing but so is the flat earther who wants to shoot himself up with a rocket to prove that the world is flat. He was an American evangelist which means he took the bible literally without much critical thought and thoroughly misunderstood the message of an enlightened man who would probably be horrified of what has become of his teachings.

 

His true message was no different from that of the 3 to 4,000 year old teachings of Advaita Vedanta or those of the Buddha 600 years before him. Alone the teaching 'deny yourself' is the same, there is no 'you' it is a mind concept, there is only wholeness, the oneness, for which he had to use the word God instead of consciouness or awareness hence 'love thy neighbour as yourself', because it is yourself. I think it was the famous Indian mystic of the 20th century Ramana Maharshi who, pointing with one hand to heaven and the other to the world said, ''i am that", Jesus said "I am the light of the world" which he later changed to "You are the light of the world", no difference to Maharshi.

 

The difference between Jesus, the Buddha and  Graham was that the first two were poor and Graham was very rich, Billy had a good earthly life because maybe he lost himself in his misunderstanding of the teachings of the enlightened man Jesus and preached a caricature of the revelation, one could say, forgive him for he knew not what he did.

I see you watch a lot of Discovery Channel, secrets of the Bible exposed type shows. I am not in the mood for casting my pearls before swine tonight so I'll take a rain check on the rebuttal. But before I go, can you please show where Jesus says you are the light of the world?

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

I see you watch a lot of Discovery Channel, secrets of the Bible exposed type shows. I am not in the mood for casting my pearls before swine tonight so I'll take a rain check on the rebuttal. But before I go, can you please show where Jesus says you are the light of the world?

Mathew 5, 14 -16. I don't watch television but I do read a lot.

[canuckamuck]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Mathew 5, 14 -16. I don't watch television but I do read a lot.

Full marks dude, you are correct.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Full marks dude, you are correct.

Did you know that Nazareth didn't exist in the 1st century and there was no Roman law that stipulated one had to go to ones place of birth for taxation or census reasons ?

[GinBoy2]

I'm one of the zero religious kinda guys.

That being said I could always get my head around the rather non judgemental, non partisan road Billy trod.
I know he'd had some missteps, but all credit to the guy he always tried at least, to apologize for those missteps.

Unfortunately his son and successor, Franklin has pursued a radically different and divisive path from that of his Father.

I always thought, rightly or wrongly, Billy tried to be inclusive of all, even if he disagreed with their religion, lifestyle, or opinions.
His son on the other hand, pursues the ultra right 'if you don't agree with us, you're the devil' philosophy of hate.

Rather sad that the legacy of a rather gentle man will ultimately get tainted by his bigoted spawn

[canuckamuck]

13 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Did you know that Nazareth didn't exist in the 1st century and there was no Roman law that stipulated one had to go to ones place of birth for taxation or census reasons ?

No, where are you getting that from? 

[evadgib]

I recall the legendary TV football pundit Jimmy Greaves cringing in silence as he sat though a lengthy sermon on TV-AM by Billy Graham plugging a forthcoming stadium performance from UK with some sort of satellite link to Alexandria and elsewhere. At the end Greavsie could not help himself & (with a straight/puzzled face) said:

 

"Where did you say you're doing it from?"

BG: "Upton Park, The home of West Ham United"

Greavsie: "You're a bit late to save anyone there mate, They were relegated last Saturday!" (and indeed they were!)

 

All the technicians in the studio erupted; Anne Diamond didn't know whether to laugh or cry & the camera jumped about like there'd been an earthquake! :)  

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by evadgib

[Skeptic7]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

No, ending up in Pattaya is a little more like going to heaven!

 

Used to be! Nowadays...not so much IMO. 

[Skeptic7]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

More like insurance salesman.

Ha ha...true, but even the worst insurance companies sell policies they can...and do...make good on! Preachers sell insurance which they never have to pay out. 

[boomerangutang]

I saw Billy Graham preach when in my mid-teens in London.  Impressive.  He was a dynamic and endearing man.  He would have been successful at any profession.  99 years, wow, that's impressive.

I don't care for preaching of any kind, whether it be religion of metaphysics or laundry soap or.....

 

So his words went by me like water down a duck's back.   I've found better philosophical truths than Christianity, but I won't preach about it here.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I see you watch a lot of Discovery Channel, secrets of the Bible exposed type shows. I am not in the mood for casting my pearls before swine tonight so I'll take a rain check on the rebuttal. But before I go, can you please show where Jesus says you are the light of the world?

a plea from Mr. Swine:  "oh please cast your pearls before me"  (but don't cast them in the mud, it makes them hard to extract)

[soalbundy]

9 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

No, where are you getting that from? 

You can google about Nazareth. I knew about there being no need to go to Bethlehem (the story about there being no room in the inn) after reading a book about Roman administration in the empire, I can't remember the title now it was some time ago but maybe you can google that as well. I am not disputing that Jesus was a historical figure,that has been documented by the Jewish historian Josephus and the Roman historian Tacitus, but I dispute his divinity and much of the myths surrounding his teachings. Interesting that Jesus once said "Before Abraham was, I am" a mixture of past and present tense showing the timelessness as presented in the Advaita Vedanta, time, like the 'I' or 'me' being only concepts of the mind, time is a concept within the boundlessness of infinity. Since Indian artifacts have been found throughout the Roman empire, India was obviously known to the Romans and Jesus may well have come into contact with the teachings of Buddha or Hinduism (not much difference in the basis) through traders.

[canuckamuck]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You can google about Nazareth. I knew about there being no need to go to Bethlehem (the story about there being no room in the inn) after reading a book about Roman administration in the empire, I can't remember the title now it was some time ago but maybe you can google that as well. I am not disputing that Jesus was a historical figure,that has been documented by the Jewish historian Josephus and the Roman historian Tacitus, but I dispute his divinity and much of the myths surrounding his teachings. Interesting that Jesus once said "Before Abraham was, I am" a mixture of past and present tense showing the timelessness as presented in the Advaita Vedanta, time, like the 'I' or 'me' being only concepts of the mind, time is a concept within the boundlessness of infinity. Since Indian artifacts have been found throughout the Roman empire, India was obviously known to the Romans and Jesus may well have come into contact with the teachings of Buddha or Hinduism (not much difference in the basis) through traders.

Yes those theories are not uncommon, but since He claims to be from the beginning of all things, it is just as fair to say that the parts of other religions that are copacetic with His own teaching are just shades of things revealed to men all along. That certainly lines up with before Abraham was, I am.

[MajarTheLion]

As expected, the anti-Christian haters are out in force. I don't have anything good or bad to say about Billy Graham. He was a human being like the rest of us. I'm sure he had his good and bad points. If he advised so many presidents, I'm guessing he was doing something right.

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Yes those theories are not uncommon, but since He claims to be from the beginning of all things, it is just as fair to say that the parts of other religions that are copacetic with His own teaching are just shades of things revealed to men all along. That certainly lines up with before Abraham was, I am.

Much of the christian religion can be traced back to Egyptian religion and they can be traced back even further to Sumeria, the oldest known civilization. Interesting but radical.