SURVEY: Criminal Background Checks or Marriage -- Good or Bad?

[phantomfiddler]

If it is done, it should be done for both parties !

[BigC]

Checking for criminal record if they wish to apply for a marriage visa is up to Thailand but for 2 people that wish to get married criminal record or not shouldn’t come into it. Also what if the thai  bride has a record. Would they be not allowed to marry if there is a chance the marriage could be a scam to protect the foreigner ?

[BigC]

If you have committed a crime and paid for it then it shouldn’t matter if one has a record unless for sex offenses 

[smotherb]

5 hours ago, Media1 said:

They won't know nothing this info is not easily shared unless a crime was committed. This is fake news. Thai racism nothing more

Gee, not known unless a crime was committed, eh? More like not known unless a conviction is brought down, but isn't that the point? So, I don't see fake news; it may be a rouse to scare the baddies away, or a real plan to cull the farang herd. Either way, it got us talking.

[Fish Head Soup]

Everyone who applies for a Thai visa or visa extension should have to prove they don't have a recent criminal record, and if they have then they should be barred from the country and blacklisted.

 

A person with previous convictions should only be allowed in to Thailand if the past convictions are 'spent', and UK immigration guidelines could be a good place for them to start to research if they wish to put together a regulation regarding this.

 

Thailand could take on a rule such as bellow, and in fact I may email the relevant authorities in Thailand to suggest looking at this as a way of weeding out undesirables.

 

A conviction is 'spent' if more than 10 years has passed since imprisonment of between 6 and 30 months. Any imprisonment over 30 months cannot ever be spent and therefore will always count against you and bar you permanently from entering the country.

 

Imprisonment of less than 6 months or fines have a shorter rehabilitation period of say 5 years.

 

For consecutive prison sentences the rehabilitation period would begin at the time you were last in prison, unless the sentence is over 30 months in which case you would be permanently barred from entering the country.

 

So in conclusion a good system could be along the lines of;

 

• Fines or jail term of up to 6 months - Entry to Thailand only after a minimum of 5 years after leaving prison or completing payment of fines.
• Jail term of 6 - 30 months - Entry to Thailand only after a minimum of 10 years after leaving prison.
• Jail term of over 30 months - Permanently excluded from entering Thailand.

 

I think the above is quite a fair compromise.

[Media1]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

Gee, not known unless a crime was committed, eh? More like not known unless a conviction is brought down, but isn't that the point? So, I don't see fake news; it may be a rouse to scare the baddies away, or a real plan to cull the farang herd. Either way, it got us talking.

Another joke. They can't even produce a functional website. Besides that they can share there Thai database only. Who gives a toss. They wouldn't know what a personality test was. Just another Phuket nutter rambling 

[baboon]

14 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Only 13 countries?

 

Hmm...wonder what the criteria was for choosing these countries.

A Blacklist springs to mind.

[Credo]

I think it would be a good idea to look at all extensions based on marriage to see how many people with criminal backgrounds are already in the country.   

 

[StayinThailand2much]

If you think that marrying a Thai national is a crime, then yes. However, if you are a foreigner, thinking that marrying a Thai national is a crime, perhaps you should not marry a Thai.

[StayinThailand2much]

20 hours ago, sawadeeken said:

If you don't have a criminal record................... why worry about it............... SIMPLE............

It's not about worrying. Would you wear a yellow star on your shirt, front and back? ("Don't worry, it's only for identification". That's what they told the Jewish in Nazi Germany...) I don't have a problem with it, if everyone in Thailand did have to do a background check before getting married, but why only foreigners?

[Ossy]

Surely, the 'If you've nothing to hide' maxim should be the dominant argument, here. Why should any woman, Thai or other, be at risk of wedding a bad guy who, further down the line, shows her just how bad he can be, when his evil is exposed. CR checks will expose such evil before it's too late and another corpse is carried to the morgue.

[Ossy]

21 hours ago, djayz said:

Where is all this leading to? It's not enough that we have to jump through hoops to stay here legally but we also have to "report" to the authorities every 90 days! Now this added step/deterrent! Why? If they keep this nonsense up, I'll consider packing my bags and moving to a country which is happy to have a healthy, middle-aged, university educated expat living, earning and spending money in their country. 

 

I've often wondered what effect it would have if all expats (and eventually tourists) didn't spend a single Baht on a particular day of the week/month (a boycott). Maybe when they see just how much we are worth to the economy, they might make living here a little easier for us. I KNOW we only make up a small percent of the overall economy, but if businesses such as restaurants, cafes, bars, tour opetators, etc. are hurting because of the lost revenue, staff being laid off, places closing, etc. they might reconsider having such obstacles in place. 

 

How much longer until they start tattooing identification numbers on our arms and resettling us in camps? 

 

If they don't want us here, they should stop us at the airports before we disembark the plane, turn us around and send us home. 

 

The country is a joke and it ain't getting better. 

 

Brilliant . . . a sure contender for post of the week!

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

a good system

If this system (ie., payment of a fine) was applied to Thais, you'd probably deport a fourth of the adult population - if one could deport Thai nationals.

But at least you recognize flaws in the new vetting of farangs for criminal activity before marriage.

[Ossy]

10 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Everyone who applies for a Thai visa or visa extension should have to prove they don't have a recent criminal record, and if they have then they should be barred from the country and blacklisted.

 

A person with previous convictions should only be allowed in to Thailand if the past convictions are 'spent', and UK immigration guidelines could be a good place for them to start to research if they wish to put together a regulation regarding this.

 

Thailand could take on a rule such as bellow, and in fact I may email the relevant authorities in Thailand to suggest looking at this as a way of weeding out undesirables.

 

A conviction is 'spent' if more than 10 years has passed since imprisonment of between 6 and 30 months. Any imprisonment over 30 months cannot ever be spent and therefore will always count against you and bar you permanently from entering the country.

 

Imprisonment of less than 6 months or fines have a shorter rehabilitation period of say 5 years.

 

For consecutive prison sentences the rehabilitation period would begin at the time you were last in prison, unless the sentence is over 30 months in which case you would be permanently barred from entering the country.

 

So in conclusion a good system could be along the lines of;

 

• Fines or jail term of up to 6 months - Entry to Thailand only after a minimum of 5 years after leaving prison or completing payment of fines.
• Jail term of 6 - 30 months - Entry to Thailand only after a minimum of 10 years after leaving prison.
• Jail term of over 30 months - Permanently excluded from entering Thailand.

 

I think the above is quite a fair compromise.

And I thought I was meticulous! You're definitely on the right lines, here, in my view; making it more of an immigration condition than a marriage condition.

[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, Ossy said:

Surely, the 'If you've nothing to hide' maxim should be the dominant argument, here. Why should any woman, Thai or other, be at risk of wedding a bad guy who, further down the line, shows her just how bad he can be, when his evil is exposed. CR checks will expose such evil before it's too late and another corpse is carried to the morgue.

Mind you, Thais like to simplify. If all foreigners have to do the check before getting married, don't be surprised if people point at you - 'Look there is one of those (potential) criminals... Our cops know why they're doing this.'

[DrTuner]

I went through the checks for another matter a couple of years ago. Took almost two months for the papers to go through banglamung-chonburi-DSI BKK. Better not be in a hurry, would likely take two years if they vet all.

[seancbk]

On 2/25/2018 at 12:01 PM, djayz said:

What about the majority of foreigners who aren't criminals? Why should they have to be vetted too just because of a few bad apples? Why are their lives here being made more difficult? Why do they have to put up with even more crap than they already do? 

 

As a previous poster has pointed out, a lot of people have made mistakes in the past. This doesn't mean people can't/don't change. A mistake in the past shouldn't destroy the rest of  person's life. 

 

I'm all in favour of kicking organized criminals, gangsters, repeat offenders, etc. out but we all know that these undesirables have the right people in their pockets so that's not going to happen. 

 

What is so onerous about being fingerprinted once (presumably using a digital scanner, not manual ink pad style) and then having it confirmed that you are not a crook?

I was fingerprinted by my condo management and can now use a fingerprint scanner to enter my building. 
 

[geisha]

Why don’t they just put the finger print machine with the immigration when arriving , like in Malaysia and many other countries ? Also they  should  be working closely with Interpol.. surely that would stop’a lot of smugglers  and  terrorists. 

[RKASA]

A simple online check and prints - not a big deal.  If someone from outside the country is getting married to a Thai it gives them advantages should they want to get involved or be involved in crime.  This in fact makes it less likely other systems may be required later to make it worse - in fact it may open the possibility of making some things easier like bank accounts ect.  Why not - as married to a Thai your vetted right.  People do this to make air travel better too.  If they would make things easier for me I would more then welcome vetting.  I don't feel sorry for those with a record - they made their own bed they lay in.

When I married here years ago (many) she had to go though a complete background check at my governments demand which included a copy of the complete family tree, police reports, interviews, and everywhere she ever worked or lived and yes fingerprints as well as xrays and a check up.  Not a big deal.

[smotherb]

13 hours ago, Media1 said:

Another joke. They can't even produce a functional website. Besides that they can share there Thai database only. Who gives a toss. They wouldn't know what a personality test was. Just another Phuket nutter rambling 

Well, they certainly have us jumping through hoops to keep our visas; I see no reason why they could not levy this tactic too.

[overherebc]

Does Canada still require a blood check as they did many years ago?

[seancbk]

2 hours ago, geisha said:

Why don’t they just put the finger print machine with the immigration when arriving , like in Malaysia and many other countries ? Also they  should  be working closely with Interpol.. surely that would stop’a lot of smugglers  and  terrorists. 

 

I would imagine that is the end goal.   These things take time though.  

[WeLubThailand]

On 2/25/2018 at 12:50 PM, connda said:

It's already evident that all foreigners are deemed guilty of being criminals until they prove they are not.  The Thai government considers all foreign men to be security risks to Thailand. 
But they will do what they want to do.  More bureaucratic paper shuffling in order to keep the Thai public 'safe' from potential foreigner criminals.  However, reassigning those bureaucratic to policing Thais roads would make Thailand a far safer place.

Do they deem foreigners to be a risk or is that an excuse to milk more from them? Increase bureaucracy is not different from job creation, a reason to confuse and make more unclear rules. This makes corruption more convenient. Of course, one may argue they arent even so smart to think of this. Thai roads could be safer if they simply outsource the job to a foreign security firm who in turn does not need to answer to the corrupted generals.

[Fish Head Soup]

The goal should be a global DNA data base of every man, woman and child traveling in and out of every country on earth and an automated 'instant' DNA screening and database check on entry and exit to all countries should be performed.

 

The technology to enable this is coming in the future for sure. We're going to need some bigger prisons though, best get building them now, nice stimulus for the economy too.

[KiChakayan]

On 25/02/2018 at 11:52 AM, djayz said:

How much longer until they start tattooing identification numbers on our arms and resettling us in camps? 

This is the main purpose of 90 days report (with the TM28/TM30). If thinks get sour here; we will be rounded, parked and expelled so the we can't report on exactions.

 

[djayz]

On 2/26/2018 at 9:16 AM, StayinThailand2much said:

It's not about worrying. Would you wear a yellow star on your shirt, front and back? ("Don't worry, it's only for identification". That's what they told the Jewish in Nazi Germany...) I don't have a problem with it, if everyone in Thailand did have to do a background check before getting married, but why only foreigners?

My sentiments exactly! 

[djayz]

On 2/26/2018 at 12:09 PM, seancbk said:

 

What is so onerous about being fingerprinted once (presumably using a digital scanner, not manual ink pad style) and then having it confirmed that you are not a crook?

I was fingerprinted by my condo management and can now use a fingerprint scanner to enter my building. 
 

Being fingerprinted to access your condo building is not quite the same as being fingerprinted, checked, double checked, tripple checked, etc. just to get married. Next thing is, they'll want to check us before we have kids with Thais. Maybe even have our passport numbers tattooed on our arms/foreheads. After that, they'll be rounding us up in lorries and moving us to  "falang camps". Then what? Images of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s spring to mind. 

This isn't about entering your condo - I bet if any country in the west tried doing this with them or other minorities living back in Faranigstan, there'd be a huge fuss about it! On an international scale and all. I can just imagine the headlines now "Nazi Europe/America/Australia", run by "Racists and fascists", "White Supremacists", etc. 

I always find it amusing that so many expats here bend over when asked to do so and open their buttocks and willing take it as they wai and smile to the authorities - but back home the foreigners in our countries put up a lot more more resistance when the powers that be try to implement these or similar "security" measures. They organise marches, newspaper articles written about it, it gets global attention, but not here. I was fingerprinted for my condo, what's the problem? Brilliant! Absolute classic! Bend over and smile... 

[Fish Head Soup]

2 hours ago, djayz said:

I always find it amusing that so many expats here bend over when asked to do so and open their buttocks and willing take it as they wai and smile to the authorities - but back home the foreigners in our countries put up a lot more more resistance when the powers that be try to implement these or similar "security" measures. They organise marches, newspaper articles written about it, it gets global attention, but not here. I was fingerprinted for my condo, what's the problem? Brilliant! Absolute classic! Bend over and smile... 

Organize a march then.

 

Where would you march to and what will you do when you get there?

 

Good luck with it. I'm sure it will be a game changer.

[djayz]

1 hour ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Organize a march then.

 

Where would you march to and what will you do when you get there?

 

Good luck with it. I'm sure it will be a game changer.

I have no intentions of organizing anything, but at the same time I have even less intentions of bending over...

Good luck with the sarcasm. That'll definitely unite the Falang front...

[KiChakayan]

5 hours ago, djayz said:

This isn't about entering your condo - I bet if any country in the west tried doing this with them or other minorities living back in Faranigstan, there'd be a huge fuss about it! On an international scale and all. I can just imagine the headlines now "Nazi Europe/America/Australia", run by "Racists and fascists", "White Supremacists", etc. 

I always find it amusing that so many expats here bend over when asked to do so and open their buttocks and willing take it as they wai and smile to the authorities - but back home the foreigners in our countries put up a lot more more resistance when the powers that be try to implement these or similar "security" measures. They organise marches, newspaper articles written about it, it gets global attention, but not here. I was fingerprinted for my condo, what's the problem? Brilliant! Absolute classic! Bend over and smile... 

You are not wrong. But it make me proud to come from "Faranigstan" more than anything else. You have also to recognize that mentalities and institutions are close to those of Europe 250 years ago. When it come to modernity only technology has made its way, even if very imperfectly.