Gun lobby pushes back on Trump's gun plans after Florida shooting

[attrayant]

Anyone who thinks a weapons cache is going to help you defend yourself against your government only need ask David Koresh how well that worked out for him.  Of course, you'd need to use a Ouija Board to do it.

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, Becker said:

And how is that relevant?

One must read what I responded to. That's the problem with taking a single quote and putting your own meaning to it. Quite possible you do it on purpose to serve your own agenda as is the method of many on TV.

[attrayant]

I read what you responded to and I don't see the relevance either.

 

And while I'm here, I'd like to know how you can be "sure" what "many folks said" 200 years ago.

[Becker]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

One must read what I responded to. That's the problem with taking a single quote and putting your own meaning to it. Quite possible you do it on purpose to serve your own agenda as is the method of many on TV.

I WROTE what you responded to. I didn't take a single quote and put my own meaning to anything - I just asked what relevance your confused reply had. I see now you have a hard time responding to this simple question.

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, Becker said:

I WROTE what you responded to. I didn't take a single quote and put my own meaning to anything - I just asked what relevance your confused reply had. I see now you have a hard time responding to this simple question.

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Posted 3 hours ago

3 hours ago, Becker said:

Are you actually saying that Americans need guns because the government might turn on them?? Tell me, which planet are you living on? And on that planet in which scenario would you and your pitiful AR-15 win against an A1 Abrams or a missile equipped drone?

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov. And I'm sure at that time many folks said, ahh it'll be OK, don't rock the boat.

 

Carry on.

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

The powerful gun lobby group does not support Trump's proposals

More importantly neither House Majority Leader Ryan nor Senate Majority Leader McConnell have taken ANY stand on gun legislation. Neither have spoken in support of any of Trump's gun legislation ideas.

Legislation is developed in congressional committees (ie., judicial committee), then moves to the Floor of each congressional branch for finalizing the legislation and bringing to a vote. Without their support, no gun legislation can even reach the committee stage. Even in committee the majority party and Chairman of the Committee - Republican currently - can stop legislation going forward to the Floor.

Until both Ryan and McConnell commit to gun legislation, any Republican support including the POTUS for gun legislation is just noise and posturing. The alternative is to change political majority in both the House and Senate.

[Becker]

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

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Posted 3 hours ago

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov. And I'm sure at that time many folks said, ahh it'll be OK, don't rock the boat.

 

Carry on.

Again;

Relevance?

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Little over 200 years ago in the US folks had a ruckus with the Gov.

Assuming you mean the American Civil War that divided brother against brother over the Southern States' declaration of secession from the United States of America and declaration of war against the United States of America by seizure of Ft. Sumter, how is your statement relevant to the current gun control issue?

Maybe if the Confederates and Union had gun control in place the South might not have been so quick in its rebellion that lead to the deaths of more than 600,000 Americans.

 

[BobBKK]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Yea, that's just one of Trump's (and the NRA's) asinine suggestions. There are a slew of reasons why arming teachers is a stupid and dangerous idea.  I would list them here, but don't want to hog too much space on this blog.

 

Probably not another civil (civilian) war, but similar.  Redneck gun huggers would band together in unregulated militias and shoot to kill - if they suspected any folks were trying to disarm them.  Everyone agrees to that, even the '....cold dead fingers' crowd.   As to how severely the problem would escalate, we don't know, but the US is headed in that direction.  No one should doubt that gun-addicts look forward to massive killing sprees which could ensue.  They fantasize about that daily, just as they fantasize about blowing the head off a brown skin kid who happens to try to pry open a window to enter their trailer.

 

 

Without wishing to add to your deflection of the thread but most people would want to defend their property and I have ZERO sympathy for anyone who get's hurt trying to enter someone else's property whether they be black, brown, yellow or pink.

 

Back on-topic I hope Trump introduces sensible controls and the NRA can go stick their 'cold dead fingers' where the sun don't shine.

[attrayant]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I hope Trump introduces sensible controls

 

Don't stop there!  What will you do if/when he doesn't?  And lots of other things needs to happen too - a bill has to be drafted, pass various committees, be brought up for vote by majority leaders, and finally passed.

 

Seeing as how we've been here many times before with no subsequent changes, I just don't see all of these things happening.  So far I don't see ANY of them happening.  What then?

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

It may not be practical, but unless it's canvassed, we'll never know.

you mean like ...........Gun control for instance? You are happy to try guns in schools before you would attempt gun control. My what an upside down topsy turvey world we live in. 

[BobBKK]

Just now, attrayant said:

 

Don't stop there!  What will you do if/when he doesn't?  And lots of other things needs to happen too - a bill has to be drafted, pass various committees, be brought up for vote by majority leaders, and finally passed.

 

Seeing as how we've been here many times before with no subsequent changes, I just don't see all of these things happening.  So far I don't see ANY of them happening.  What then?

 

Well he could sign an exec order and bypass all the BS?  to answer your other question I don't much care as I'm British and we don't have that problem of people buying assault rifles which, frankly,. is madness.

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

It's a badly written article.  Who is Dana Loesch?  The article doesn't say.  Is she a passer-by on the sidewalk?

 

Good question......

 

 

[farcanell]

47 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Assuming you mean the American Civil War that divided brother against brother over the Southern States' declaration of secession from the United States of America and declaration of war against the United States of America by seizure of Ft. Sumter, how is your statement relevant to the current gun control issue?

Maybe if the Confederates and Union had gun control in place the South might not have been so quick in its rebellion that lead to the deaths of more than 600,000 Americans.

 

I think he’s talking about the period in history when treasonous British citizens, colonizing the crowns holdings in the americas, rose up in revolution against their king, whose might was concentrated on European conflicts

 

this treason resulted in the formation of the United States, under their own constitution, (including the dreaded second) which then needed protection from the king, by forming, in lieu of a professional army, a well regulated militia.

 

militas were arguably a nessesity, until the US was threatened with being dragged into WW1, since which time, the US has had an effective military.

 

lol.... I could be wrong... right?

Edited February 26, 2018 by farcanell

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

None of those institutions arrived with Trump. But he is singularly suited to highlighting all these interfaces that have been happening for decades now. Sure, spew your vitriol at Trump, he deserves it, but all these institutions which both parties have been co-opted by are going to get some on them too. Even rabid partisans have to see that their own preferred party is engaged in exactly the same type of activity, all of the time.

 

I am partisan. But at the same time, I can admit that the party I have voted for my whole life is completely broken, was run by gangsters such as Wasserman Schultz, put forth the worst candidate since Mike Dukakis, and failed on every level. Has anything changed? Has the democratic party learned anything, reformed itself, or improved on any level? Let us hope. I do agree both parties are completely broken and completely devoid of ethics or morality. 

[Andaman Al]

25 minutes ago, farcanell said:

militas were arguably a nessesity, until the US was threatened with being dragged into WW1, since which time, the US has had an effective military.

So if you have an effective military you don't need British traitors, peasants and farmers with guns any more? A great argument for gun control and a amendment to the second amendment,  thank you.

[Srikcir]

13 minutes ago, farcanell said:

I think he’s talking about the period in history when treasonous British citizens, colonizing the crowns holdings in the americas, rose up in revolution against their king, whose might was concentrated on European conflicts

 

this treason resulted in the formation of the United States, under their own constitution, (including the dreaded second) which then needed protection from the king, by forming, in lieu of a professional army, a well regulated militia.

 

militas were arguably a nessesity, until the US was threatened with being dragged into WW1, since which time, the US has had an effective military.

 

lol.... I could be wrong... right?

It's a confusing reference if it's to the American Revolution that was more than 240 years ago.

The USA didn't have a standing army until 1789.

Believing that “standing armies in time of peace are inconsistent with the principles of republican governments [and] dangerous to the liberties of a free people,” the U.S. legislature disbanded the Continental Army following the Revolutionary War. September 29, the last day of its first session, that Congress passed a bill empowering the president (aka POTUS) “to call into service, from time to time, such part of the militia of the states, respectively, as he may judge necessary.”

That would have been the "well-regulated militia."

http://www.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-u-s-armed-forces

 

[dunroaming]

And so it goes on and nothing will change while you have idiots like the current POTUS in place.

[William T]

    

7 hours ago, Becker said:

Are you actually saying that Americans need guns because the government might turn on them?? Tell me, which planet are you living on? And on that planet in which scenario would you and your pitiful AR-15 win against an A1 Abrams or a missile equipped drone?

   American citizens must be reassured when they see a "well regulated Militia " like this , ready to defend them against any oppressive government who tries to take away their gun rights.

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by William T

[Becker]

Just now, William T said:

    

   Americans must be reassured when they see a "well regulated Militia " like this , ready to defend them against any oppressive government who tries to take away their gun rights.

 

I'm looking forward to well armed black militias being formed in the US. That would put a bee under the bonnet of the good 'ol boys!

[ThaiFelix]

"You have already been paid so do as you are told!!"

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, Becker said:

Indeed. The "argument" that citizens need guns to protect themselves against their government is ridiculous for three reasons:

1. The US government might turn on the population and start killing them in droves. Need I go on?

2. If the government ordered the armed forces to do this they would obey and start killing their mothers/fathers/siblings and friends.

3. Even if the government managed to convince the armed forces to do this a bunch of pot bellied civilians with rifles would be able to effectively fight back.

I mean, come on!

The fact that such nonsense is even suggested is proof of the moral depravity of the NRA and some of its supporters.

[joecoolfrog]

6 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

May make sense. A government arms its police and military against threats, and of course I know the difference.

 

With good training, I think it's an idea worth exploring, and just may provide a sufficient deterrent to dissuade some lunatics. Who knows? 

 

People who carry out school shootings, or any shottings against unarmed others, are cowards, and if they know there will be resistance they just may not go ahead.

 

It may not be practical, but unless it's canvassed, we'll never know.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

Mentally unstable people are unlikely to be deterred , they may even relish the challenge. Why not just make it more difficult for them to acquire automatic weapons and the like ?

[riclag]

This idea of fortifying schools should be a first priority,ID badges,metal detectors and one entry is a good start to safe guarding all schools.In the USA  there are many portable police departments such as police substations in malls.These sub stations can easily be put in place in High schools  and be filled with uniform armed police .Police work behind a desk in many cities 24-7, why not put one or two in a sub station in junior and senior high schools.There won't be any extra burden on school and city budgets and they would replace the idea of trained school teachers.

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

This idea of fortifying schools should be a first priority,ID badges,metal detectors and one entry is a good start to safe guarding all schools.In the USA  there are many portable police departments such as police substations in malls.These sub stations can easily be put in place in High schools  and be filled with uniform armed police .Police work behind a desk in many cities 24-7, why not put one or two in a sub station in junior and senior high schools.There won't be any extra burden on school and city budgets and they would replace the idea of trained school teachers.

Or we could do it the easy and logical way and just impose strict gun control measures and outlaw weapons of war like the AR-15.

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

And so it goes on and nothing will change while you have idiots like the current POTUS in place.

Totally agree, all the school shootings started 2017. Everything was peachy prior to Trump.

[Andaman Al]

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

This idea of fortifying schools should be a first priority,ID badges,metal detectors and one entry is a good start to safe guarding all schools.In the USA  there are many portable police departments such as police substations in malls.These sub stations can easily be put in place in High schools  and be filled with uniform armed police .Police work behind a desk in many cities 24-7, why not put one or two in a sub station in junior and senior high schools.There won't be any extra burden on school and city budgets and they would replace the idea of trained school teachers.

That is a completely arse about face line of thinking. We need age verification on this forum.............actually that is completely unfair, it is the kids that are going to cause the gun control regulations to be put in place. THEY ARE the sensible ones. Those 17 year old kids currently on TV and protesting will all be voting age in 2020 and republican politicians who do not listen to them will be out of a job. I used to think that responsible gun control was a really good start. Now I see that the embedded mentality is at such an immature level the only way ahead is a total ban on Guns aka Australia.

[attrayant]

43 minutes ago, riclag said:

This idea of fortifying schools should be a first priority, ID badges, metal detectors and one entry is a good start to safe guarding all schools.

 

And then when schools become too hard a target for domestic terrorists, we'll need to do the same thing to shopping malls, hospitals, bus stops, retirement homes, hotels, sports stadiums, restaurants, churches, subway stations, museums, hospitals and so on. Easy-peasy!  Just look for any place where people might conceivably gather for any reason, and fortify it!  It's so amazingly simple, why has no one thought of this before?  OR we could find the single common element shared by all these places when there is a mass shooting, and regulate that thing instead.

 

Let's see... Militarily harden and fortify tens of thousands of constantly changing venues, or regulate one thing that repeatedly causes trouble at all these places. It shouldn't be a tough choice.

[dunroaming]

36 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Totally agree, all the school shootings started 2017. Everything was peachy prior to Trump.

Sorry pal no cigar for you.  The NRA have been growing in power for years and many Americans love pretending they are Rambo or John Wayne.  It did look for a while like gun controls were being put in place but it was usually reversed.  Previous Presidents have been weak on gun control but at least Obama tried for change.  However the gun lobby were more powerful as it has been for far too long. Now it is different when you have a POTUS who is in the pocket of the NRA completely and gutless as well. 

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

Sorry pal no cigar for you.  The NRA have been growing in power for years and many Americans love pretending they are Rambo or John Wayne.  It did look for a while like gun controls were being put in place but it was usually reversed.  Previous Presidents have been weak on gun control but at least Obama tried for change.  However the gun lobby were more powerful as it has been for far too long. Now it is different when you have a POTUS who is in the pocket of the NRA completely and gutless as well. 

On the item of no cigar, I'm just finishing up a cigar and a tall Leo before the skeeters eat me. Looks like I win.