Sturgeon says Scottish parliament will not consent to UK PM May's Brexit bill

[lungbing]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Scotland is a country that forms part of the UK.  Their elected politicians have a duty to protect their citizens as they see fit.  England is the same and so is Northern Ireland.  It is not for the English or the N.Irish to dictate what Scotland does.  Same applies to all. 

Good.  can we have an English parliament then?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

Yip..I am a Rangers Man..and your point is??????

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I just see a lot of Sevco fans who spout the same empty rhetoric that you did in your previous post.

Thankfully it isn't guaranteed that one goes with the other, but there is a strong correlation between Rangers fans and blind obedience to Betty.

[malagateddy]

Surely that is our perogative..or would you rather we went on bended knee to republicans..I do not think so

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[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Surely that is our perogative..or would you rather we went on bended knee to republicans..I do not think so

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Of course, freedom of choice and all that, but it makes a mockery of the oft hurled attack that the SNP is a cult. Ask your average independence supporter why they support independence and they will, most likely, talk about aspirations for a better, fairer country. Ask a unionist why they support the status quo and it usually comes back to flags, crown and history.

[malagateddy]

No no no...the Unionists of Scotland are very wise and sensible people..imagine independance and right into the cesspit of brussels

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[malagateddy]

We can carry this conversation on 2moro..busy now for couple hours then its nite nite time
Please remember..bjk

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[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, malagateddy said:

We can carry this conversation on 2moro..busy now for couple hours then its nite nite time
Please remember..bjk

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To be honest, I am not really a football man so I needed to google bjk. But I was born and raised a protestant, albeit with a bit of influence from the wee frees - I hope it doesn't scunner you too much, but I have been in favour of independence since 1979 when my mum brought me along to the local primary school so she could vote in the devolution referendum (she voted no, but mainly because my father, Thatcher's number 1 fan, told her to).

 

The thing about Scottish independence is that there isn't a one-size fits all philosophy. That is why, alongside the usual NAT, you  can find Europhiles for Yes, Brexiters for Yes, Tories for Yes, Labour for Yes, etc. So what happens post independence is anyone's guess. 

[malagateddy]

I honestly do not think that the "yes" vote will ever win..do you think that people want to be under the brussels thumb for all their days?
Do you think they want a massive infestation of muslims and eastern europeans..crime rate going thro the roof..please remember that I have many friends in the Glasgow area..some of their children are serving police officers..and the stories that get passed on to me would make you scream!!!

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[steve187]

14 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

but don't take it from me:

 

"It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another successful, independent country."

David Cameron

 

"Now our case is not that Scotland could not survive as a seprate state. Of course it could."
Alastair Darling

 

"Scotland is perfectly capable of being an independent nation."
Nigel Lawson

not the best people to trust for the truth coming out of their mouths.

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

To be honest, I am not really a football man so I needed to google bjk. But I was born and raised a protestant, albeit with a bit of influence from the wee frees - I hope it doesn't scunner you too much, but I have been in favour of independence since 1979 when my mum brought me along to the local primary school so she could vote in the devolution referendum (she voted no, but mainly because my father, Thatcher's number 1 fan, told her to).

 

The thing about Scottish independence is that there isn't a one-size fits all philosophy. That is why, alongside the usual NAT, you  can find Europhiles for Yes, Brexiters for Yes, Tories for Yes, Labour for Yes, etc. So what happens post independence is anyone's guess. 

 

Crikey! Fancy being under the the thumb of Thatcher's number one fan! But, seriously, do you think that Sturgeon is the best Scotland can offer? (and I'm all for Scottish independence if you Scots want it).

[malagateddy]

The majority DO NOT want independance

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[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

The majority DO NOT want independance

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I'm English Teddy, which is why I always defer to Scots on this matter.

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, meinphuket said:

Look what the EU did for Eire...it will do the same for a divorced Scotland.

Yes, but without the UK, they cannot finance their largesse.

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The elctorate - by a significant margin.

All my Scots friends here seem to despise the woman!

[malagateddy]

Do you honestly wonder why?????[emoji23]

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[GinBoy2]

I'm just going to give my impressions of the whole UK devolution debacle as seen from an American.

At least in the US there is a clear definition of the roles as responsibilities that are ceded to the Federal government, and they apply to ALL States who are in the union

Equally, States rights are enshrined, although still arguable through the Supreme Court, but at the end of the day, fairly well defined.

I am at a loss to understand the UK system of devolved Government. Basically 4 sovereign nations, equivalent to US States, with different devolved powers from the center, with the largest having no devolved Government!

That's like saying California should be governed directly from Washington DC, yet New Hampshire gets their own State Govt.

Again, not being a Brit don't want to sick my nose in, but until you all craft a proper Federal settlement, isn't this all a train wreck in progress?

[malagateddy]

As a Scottish man who is a Royalist and a Unionist.. I hope that there will be a separate
Parliament for England in the very near future.
It makes sense 100% imo.
Right now..the rancid snp government and their lemming like members and supporters are using anything and everything they can think of to vainly attempt to drum up anti-English/British feeling in Scotland.
The snp..especially sturgeon are imo blatant racists.
You only need to look at their policy re University Education policy.
Imo.. they are a crowd of extremely bitter nonentities.
Long live the Union!!

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[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I'm just going to give my impressions of the whole UK devolution debacle as seen from an American.

At least in the US there is a clear definition of the roles as responsibilities that are ceded to the Federal government, and they apply to ALL States who are in the union

Equally, States rights are enshrined, although still arguable through the Supreme Court, but at the end of the day, fairly well defined.

I am at a loss to understand the UK system of devolved Government. Basically 4 sovereign nations, equivalent to US States, with different devolved powers from the center, with the largest having no devolved Government!

That's like saying California should be governed directly from Washington DC, yet New Hampshire gets their own State Govt.

Again, not being a Brit don't want to sick my nose in, but until you all craft a proper Federal settlement, isn't this all a train wreck in progress?

Never fear - it is always interesting to get an outsider's perspective.

 

To be honest, I see no possibility of a federal UK. One of the current problems in the UK is that there is no devolved parliament for England. The liklihood of one being created is, in my opinion, very slim - as once that happens, more power would be transferred from Westminster, leading to questions as to its purpose.

 

Add to the mix the different legal systems (not different laws, but funadamentally different systems) and EVEL, a rule introduced to Westminster that prevents Scottish MPs voting on matters that are purely English in nature, and you can see that the UK system of government is destined to create grievances. This last one is especially contentious because, due to the way that the UK government calculates disbursement to the devolved parliaments, there are relatively few laws that actually affect only England, even if it would appear at first glance that they do.

 

One of the oft-repeated fallacies in the argument  is that the desire for Scottish independence is based upon some form of anti-English sentiment. This is a much repeated trope intended to discredit the independence movement even though their is very little substance to back it up. The simple fact is that many in Scotland see that a parliament where 90% of the representatives are from what they consider another country, they do not believe that the interests of the Scots are being met by Westminster, and that for the greater good of all parties in the union, there should be an amicable separation.

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

As a Scottish man who is a Royalist and a Unionist.. I hope that there will be a separate
Parliament for England in the very near future.
It makes sense 100% imo.
Right now..the rancid snp government and their lemming like members and supporters are using anything and everything they can think of to vainly attempt to drum up anti-English/British feeling in Scotland.
The snp..especially sturgeon are imo blatant racists.
You only need to look at their policy re University Education policy.
Imo.. they are a crowd of extremely bitter nonentities.
Long live the Union!!

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You see, this is what makes me so frustrated - all the name calling and snide attacks. Ramcid, lemmings, racists, bitter nonentities - in the absence of a credible argument, all you have to hand is abuse.  

 

Can you provide clear examples of the racism of Sturgeon?

 

The university thing is a non-starter, I am afraid. The objective is to make higher education a possibility for as many Scots as possible. If it was available to all from the UK, Scots would be crowded out by other students for England, Wales and NI. However under EU law, the Scottish government MUST offer places to students from other member countries. This is not a desired situation - ideally non UK EU nationals would also have to pay, but this situation is not the SG's doing.

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, malagateddy said:

I honestly do not think that the "yes" vote will ever win..do you think that people want to be under the brussels thumb for all their days?
Do you think they want a massive infestation of muslims and eastern europeans..crime rate going thro the roof..please remember that I have many friends in the Glasgow area..some of their children are serving police officers..and the stories that get passed on to me would make you scream!!!

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You need to improve your consistency of message - it's clear that the racists are not the NATs.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Crikey! Fancy being under the the thumb of Thatcher's number one fan! But, seriously, do you think that Sturgeon is the best Scotland can offer? (and I'm all for Scottish independence if you Scots want it).

I think she is playing a blinder, to be honest. She is running rings round the Westminster government (OK, maybe not a fair comparison), their Brexit strategy has been a spectacular success and she has no equal in Holyrood. Why do you think poorly of her?

[malagateddy]

And do you really think that the people of scotland would relish and enjoy being subservient to unelected jobsworths over in brussels.
Please remember that there are closed door meetings between eu jobsworths and BIG financials players such as soros..reps from citibank..rothchilds..goldman sachs..etc etc
At least every 5 years there are British general elections where people can vote to get rid of their respective MP if they so wish.
Try getting rid of the eu jobsworths like junker..tusk..etc etc
The eu is on its way to being an autocratic dictatorship like russia..china.imo.

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[RuamRudy]

Just now, malagateddy said:

And do you really think that the people of scotland would relish and enjoy being subservient to unelected jobsworths over in brussels.
Please remember that there are closed door meetings between eu jobsworths and BIG financials players such as soros..reps from citibank..rothchilds..goldman sachs..etc etc
At least every 5 years there are British general elections where people can vote to get rid of their respective MP if they so wish.
Try getting rid of the eu jobsworths like junker..tusk..etc etc
The eu is on its way to being an autocratic dictatorship like russia..china.imo.

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Well I see no significant change from the Brexit vote so, yes, I think that the Scottish people are happy being part of the EU. Don't forget, more Scots by proportion and percentage voted to remain in the EU than they did the UK.

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, malagateddy said:

The majority DO NOT want independance

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The majority of whom? The majority of those born in Scotland voted for independence - it was the large number of voters born outside Scotland who swung the vote in favour of the union.

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think she is playing a blinder, to be honest. She is running rings round the Westminster government (OK, maybe not a fair comparison), their Brexit strategy has been a spectacular success and she has no equal in Holyrood. Why do you think poorly of her?

 

I think she's something of a Walter Mitty character who puts personal attainment ahead of everything else. So that makers her not much different to most other UK politicians.

[transam]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think she is playing a blinder, to be honest. She is running rings round the Westminster government (OK, maybe not a fair comparison), their Brexit strategy has been a spectacular success and she has no equal in Holyrood. Why do you think poorly of her?

Thought the SNP recently got trounced by the voters...

[RuamRudy]

Just now, transam said:

Thought the SNP recently got trounced by the voters...

Without wishing to seem like I am slavishly defending the SNP (I am not a member), 56 of 59 MPs for one party would be a bit of an unrealistic for any party to maintain in the current political climate. It is telling though, that after 10 years in government, they still manage to command a majority of MPs.

[malagateddy]

All would be immigrants wishing to settle in the UK should should
1// supply at their expense an "enhanced disclosure" police check verifying that they do not have a criminal record of any discription.
2// Every would be immigrant must also supply at their own expense a full medical report about themselves.
My Wife was with me for 10 years in Glasgow and had to supply the afore-mentioned documents to the UK Embassy before her visa was granted.
As things stand justnow..you have scummy eastern european gansters in jails all over the UK for committing serious crimes in the UK.
Because of the eu "human rights"..any tom dick and harry can wander into the UK..covicted paedo's..rapists..drug dealers etc.
The UK Authorities are NOT ALLOWED to know if the hordes of eu immigrants are gangsters or not.
Quite disgraceful imo

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[GinBoy2]

20 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Never fear - it is always interesting to get an outsider's perspective.

 

To be honest, I see no possibility of a federal UK. One of the current problems in the UK is that there is no devolved parliament for England. The liklihood of one being created is, in my opinion, very slim - as once that happens, more power would be transferred from Westminster, leading to questions as to its purpose.

 

Add to the mix the different legal systems (not different laws, but funadamentally different systems) and EVEL, a rule introduced to Westminster that prevents Scottish MPs voting on matters that are purely English in nature, and you can see that the UK system of government is destined to create grievances. This last one is especially contentious because, due to the way that the UK government calculates disbursement to the devolved parliaments, there are relatively few laws that actually affect only England, even if it would appear at first glance that they do.

 

One of the oft-repeated fallacies in the argument  is that the desire for Scottish independence is based upon some form of anti-English sentiment. This is a much repeated trope intended to discredit the independence movement even though their is very little substance to back it up. The simple fact is that many in Scotland see that a parliament where 90% of the representatives are from what they consider another country, they do not believe that the interests of the Scots are being met by Westminster, and that for the greater good of all parties in the union, there should be an amicable separation.

I’m just more curious than anything, but what makes differences in legal systems an impediment to Federalism? In the US every State has it’s own legal system, indeed lawyers need certification in the State in which they practice, it doesn’t cross State lines

 

The argument that if you cede too much to the States, invalidates the legitimacy of the center, I’m not sure I get. If that was the case Washington DC would be an worthless hulk, compared to State Capitals, who do wield immense power, yet clearly it’s not.

 

Maybe time to look back into your past. Charles Thompson, a Scots Irish from Northern Ireland was pivotal in crafting the US constitution and understood, with incredible insight how to craft the balance between central and devolved (States) rights and powers

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

All would be immigrants wishing to settle in the UK should should
1// supply at their expense an "enhanced disclosure" police check verifying that they do not have a criminal record of any discription.
2// Every would be immigrant must also supply at their own expense a full medical report about themselves.
My Wife was with me for 10 years in Glasgow and had to supply the afore-mentioned documents to the UK Embassy before her visa was granted.
As things stand justnow..you have scummy eastern european gansters in jails all over the UK for committing serious crimes in the UK.
Because of the eu "human rights"..any tom dick and harry can wander into the UK..covicted paedo's..rapists..drug dealers etc.
The UK Authorities are NOT ALLOWED to know if the hordes of eu immigrants are gangsters or not.
Quite disgraceful imo

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Immigration is a reserved matter.