Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Grouse]

9 hours ago, Justfine said:

Yet my education and intelligence is far superior.

 

Your angry response says it all.

No anger whatever. Just speaking my truth brother.

[aright]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What don't you understand about 'No EU law or regulation can be enacted in the UK without having been voted on and passed on in the UK's Parliament.'?

 

I do accept that it is voted on by the house but if the house rejects it and the rest of the EU endorses it its EU law. Can you give me an example of new legislation which is law in the EU but not the UK? Did you read the article I quoted ...............

EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Dear me! Read more, improve your vocabulary. English is such a rich language full subtleties and shades. What's your favourite book? Personally I love John LeCarre just for the richness of his prose.

He's a primitive, he will think you misspelt rose now.

[Grouse]

9 hours ago, Justfine said:

You edited a 3 word post? 

 

Gee you socialists haven't improved much in 150 years.

You're not an American by chance? Gee wiz!

[aright]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

He's a primitive, he will think you misspelt rose now.

I think he meant to say pose. John LeCarre........ nudge nudge wink wink.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I see that Grouse is back to insulting people who disagree with him once again.

What words did you find insulting? The truth that I gave that pipsqueek?

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

But we're leaving; Article 50 was triggered, and in march 2019 we enter the implementation period.

 

Both main political parties are committed to us leaving the EU. The only question that remains is around the terms of our departure and the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

 

So I ask again - what do you (and your ilk) hope to achieve by talking down the UK at this critical time?

Is there someone important reading with us? Good lord we will have to do a bit of jingoism and hip hip hurrah with three rounds of rule Britannia with tears in our eyes.

[aright]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Dear me! Read more, improve your vocabulary. English is such a rich language full subtleties and shades. What's your favourite book? Personally I love John LeCarre just for the richness of his prose.

I would have thought you more an A A Milne man.

Last 2 nights in LOS and am not going to spend them discussing this rubbish. I will reconvene with my headache and itch tomorrow morning

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, transam said:

He perhaps is hi-so.............

How does one express upper quartile in gutter language. Do tell! ?

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The really serious question is, why does there have to be a negotiating position with the EU in the first place?

There has been no sensible answer put forward so far. The backstop answer is always the 'will of the people', but 'people' do not make legislation, there has only ever been 3 national referendums, the UK is a parliamentary democracy and constitutional issues should not be determined by referendum on a first past the post basis, it is not an election.

It appears to be conveniently forgotten that Mr Brexit said before the referendum that a 52/48 outcome would bring the result into question, so whether you or anyone else likes it or not the result will always be in question.

 

 

Whether anyone likes it or not “the result” will stand.

 

 

I think David Cameron said it would....

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

He really is Hi-So in his own tiny little mind.

7 1/2 cap size. My mother had a caesarean. ?

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

I think he meant to say pose. John LeCarre........ nudge nudge wink wink.

don't you wink at me you pervert.

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You're not an American by chance? Gee wiz!

He did say Gee but he hasn't said dude yet.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

That's a brilliant bon mot I must try and remember it for my Glasgow tour. (It's not a cliche is it? Is that the right word? My vocabulary is weak you see)

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

No, it's about hoodwinking ordinary working people, which is the basis of just about every right-wing movement n history ... coupled with a reliance a breathtaking ignorance of history.

And still the lemmings can't see it! Astonishing! 

[simoh1490]

26 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Whether anyone likes it or not “the result” will stand.

 

 

I think David Cameron said it would....

Every decision stands until it's overturned, it's simply a matter of time and of course, that volte-face will also be democratic, the will of the people and all that - if only we didn't have to take the long way around, it would be so much much easier and cheaper.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

The EU is obsessed with reducing carbon emissions at any cost as they try to satisfy their own unachievable emissions targets. Inefficient and costly wind farms, which need at least a strong breeze to work at all, cannot supply a constant supply of power, so that existing power stations have to be kept on line anyway. Biofuels still emit carbon, use up vast tracts of good agricultural land, and so vastly reduce real food output capability.

 

The result of all this is much higher food and energy costs all round, with most costs passed directly passed on to the consumers (EU citizens).

 

EU waste management policies have farmers collecting sewage and industrial waste to be stored on farms until ploughing time stuffs it into arable fields...disgusting...all because of the idiotic EU landfill directive. The EU is financially and environmentally irresponsible but people just believe the propaganda.

 

I'd love to see your evidence that the EU regulations are improving the environment.

 

Tax Q no answer as expected. Thanks. 

I have recently been very impressed with rapidly rising wind power results. Bring back the solar support and install some AGRs to provide nuclear until fusion comes on 50 years from now. How did we lose our own nuclear industry? I must read up on that. Coal is almost finished, then oil, then combined cycle (that's gas for our new friend) Frakking is not worth the risk and environmental damage. Fossil furs wil soon be history.

[talahtnut]

No-one know the future, except to say that it is uncertain. 

In the present case, the majority of voters have chosen

more uncertainty over less uncertainty. They have chosen

to abandon the known to explore beyond the edge of the

map. 'There be dragons', some say. But such exploration

is often required for growth, and certainly, without

exploration, mankind would have 'remained' cave dwellers.

Lots of good debate here, but, in the end, its all down

to the human spirit and ingenuity, which is best when

unfettered, as when you all left home and made good

by yourselves.

Think of Jefferson, Ghandi, etc what would they do

with the brexit problem?
 

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

I was brought up not far from Ardersier and knew many that went to work there, I was away defending the realm when it came about. My brother used to work on the jackets and was one of the last to leave when the site went to care and maintenance. Forres and Nairn are now virtually ghost towns and Kinloss was taken over by the Army with about half the previous personnel, businesses are closing on a regular basis

Most of those I know voted against independence, mainly due to a local dislike of Alex Salmond, the area was one his rallying points back in his early days when he was a bit of an extremist.

Many are now beginning to regret that vote as there is little faith in Westminster stepping up to the plate when the EU funding comes to an end.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-set-to-lose-200m-a-year-in-funding-after-uk-leaves-eu-1-4167989

 

Before any smart alec starts quoting polls, 'regretting the vote' does not equate to wanting another referendum, 2 separate issues.

It's a great part of the world. I lived at Cullodon Moor! The Speyroc bungalow was bought cash with money from the jackets. I don't think any women worked there. Full of hairyarsed Glaswegian fitters and welders. We had a strike and me and fitter went up into the hills in my Landrover Series 2A and blagged a sheep; Tough as old mutton ?. Inverness taught me to splash some lemonade in my dram of Grouse. Never got over that!

[talahtnut]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I have recently been very impressed with rapidly rising wind power results. Bring back the solar support and install some AGRs to provide nuclear until fusion comes on 50 years from now. How did we lose our own nuclear industry? I must read up on that. Coal is almost finished, then oil, then combined cycle (that's gas for our new friend) Frakking is not worth the risk and environmental damage. Fossil furs wil soon be history.

Fossil fuels will also be history.  Agreed, can't be soon enough Grouse!

[Jip99]

19 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Every decision stands until it's overturned, it's simply a matter of time and of course, that volte-face will also be democratic, the will of the people and all that - if only we didn't have to take the long way around, it would be so much much easier and cheaper.

 

We already took the long route to get to where we are....a 45 year journey...

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

There is a problem with your two main arguments, i.e.

 

1. I do believe that more than 50% of the UK electorate are not in favour of Brexit. Yes, many were not sufficiently motivated to be bothered to vote against the status quo

 

2. Also, after 2 years of information on the actualite I do believe that many that voted  for Brexit are now not so inclined

 

Point 1 is simply based on your belief, which gives it no credibility (no offence).  And yes, many couldn't be bothered to vote against the status quo, i.e. vote Leave, so the margin for Leave should have been greater.

 

Point 2, again based on your belief.  One could also believe that many who voted Remain now want to leave, having seen the true colours of the Brussels bureaucrats, and since the EU made it clear just after the vote that further integration is planned (fiscal and military).

 

 

 

OK, that's a reasonable arguement. However, as an expert on porcine laziness, I know that the ones who didn't vote were comfy with status quo and certainly would not want any negative economic effects.

 

as far as the last two years are concerned it is clear that the benefits of Brexit will be minor if any. We will end up in the EEA and joint EFTA. There will obviously be a customs union. We will pay a shed load of cash for nothing much. All bright people see this. The Kommodo Cons definitely smell their benefits. The poor lumpen people will get poorer.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

Let's not forget how German industry formulated their own environmental policy.

Remember the Volkswagen emissions scandal.

I'm afraid that's another issue that was widely misunderstood. Volkswagen broke no rules. They were smart and beat the Americans. If you know anything about how EMCs have enabled all the recent advances, you will understand that multiple inputs affect the outputs to the engine. These vehicles "knew" when they were 5up being gunned uphill on the highway and delivered accordingly. They also "knew" when they were not moving in a station 1up on the flat and a quick gun of accelerator. We engineers think that's great! Don't you? You're going to see way more of this

 

I see BMW are the latest to be probed

 

Thete won't be any American cars though; they generally don't have the technology.

 

The tests specified are crap. The engineering is terrific

[talahtnut]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Landrover Series 2A

Nice one Grouse, I had one too, but I didn't do any rustling,

 I 'came by' a granite milestone 8 miles from Bodmin.

Edited April 6, 2018 by talahtnut
addition

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

But we're leaving; Article 50 was triggered, and in march 2019 we enter the implementation period.

 

Both main political parties are committed to us leaving the EU. The only question that remains is around the terms of our departure and the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

 

So I ask again - what do you (and your ilk) hope to achieve by talking down the UK at this critical time?

Is there someone important reading with us? Good lord we will have to do a bit of jingoism and hip hip hurrah with three rounds of rule Britannia with tears in our eyes.

I did write "(and your ilk)", so I include the more prominent public figures who also indulge in the UK bashing.

 

 

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

No-one know the future, except to say that it is uncertain. 

In the present case, the majority of voters have chosen

more uncertainty over less uncertainty. They have chosen

to abandon the known to explore beyond the edge of the

map. 'There be dragons', some say. But such exploration

is often required for growth, and certainly, without

exploration, mankind would have 'remained' cave dwellers.

Lots of good debate here, but, in the end, its all down

to the human spirit and ingenuity, which is best when

unfettered, as when you all left home and made good

by yourselves.

Think of Jefferson, Ghandi, etc what would they do

with the brexit problem?
 

 

Well written good sir; I shall ponder your words.

[CG1 Blue]

32 minutes ago, Grouse said:

OK, that's a reasonable arguement. However, as an expert on porcine laziness, I know that the ones who didn't vote were comfy with status quo and certainly would not want any negative economic effects.

 

as far as the last two years are concerned it is clear that the benefits of Brexit will be minor if any. We will end up in the EEA and joint EFTA. There will obviously be a customs union. We will pay a shed load of cash for nothing much. All bright people see this. The Kommodo Cons definitely smell their benefits. The poor lumpen people will get poorer.

I think / hope you're wrong.  We'll see

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, aright said:

I do accept that it is voted on by the house but if the house rejects it and the rest of the EU endorses it its EU law. Can you give me an example of new legislation which is law in the EU but not the UK? Did you read the article I quoted ...............

EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries.

Yes I read the article it is replete with half truths, by example:

EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries. Well yes that is true, but the reason it is true is, the EU law only becomes effective in the UK once the UK Parliament has voted to accept it.

Then, like all new laws, it overrides conflicting laws that already exist. 

 

Can you give me an example of new legislation which is law in the EU but not the UK?

No because there aren't any. If the UK does not accept a proposed EU law then the UK uses its absolute sovereign veto of that law and it cannot be made an EU law effective anywhere. 

 

There is no EU law that has not been approved by vote of the UK parliament.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

We already took the long route to get to where we are....a 45 year journey...

And with 45 years to think about it you still have no idea of where you are going or how you are going to get there. 

 

Even red lines of where the UK will never go have turned green.

 

What an utter shambles. 

[dunroaming]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:22 PM, Justfine said:

Well those 3 nations are far more racist than the UK.

True but there are many countries out there that are far more racist than the UK and you don't have to go as far a field as the ones you mentioned.  However maybe it should be clarified that this is about Brexit and the British voters.  After all you could say that not all Trump supporters are racist but all racists are Trump supporters.  A bit of common sense goes a very long way.