Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[adammike]

5 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Unless the EU stops NY, HK, Singapore and others from clearing €'s it does not have a legal leg to stand on.

 

 

The EU's argument is that euro clearing should be done in countries that have the euro as a currency, that was why they wanted to take the licence away from the UK the ECJ disagreed and said it just has to be a EU member.They dish out the licence to clear so I guess that means it will move to France or Germany!! 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

WHEN is good, if a hard brexit is so easy and everything will be hunky dory afterwards why hasn't HMG made any provisions for a hard brexit? because it won't happen, there will be a 'yes minister' solution. The civil service will probably have more say than the government and they are anonymous, difficult to attack a grey suite that can't be sacked but that's what the politicians are for, cannon fodder. 

 

It must be wonderful to see imto the future and to know that you are right. At this point in time few people know what has actually been achieved and those that do know ain't telling.

 

I have no idea what will happen in March and I doubt that meny people on TVF have either.

 

I do know that according to the government we WILL leave in March 2019 though what agreements will be in place then I have no idea.

[soalbundy]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

It must be wonderful to see imto the future and to know that you are right. At this point in time few people know what has actually been achieved and those that do know ain't telling.

 

I have no idea what will happen in March and I doubt that meny people on TVF have either.

 

I do know that according to the government we WILL leave in March 2019 though what agreements will be in place then I have no idea.

I agree, everything is speculation here and in the media, depending on the newspaper you read it will be hard brexit and the UK will become a world leader or it's doom and gloom or it won't happen. I suspect that it will be something in the middle which won't satisfy anybody but will be sold as a victory by both the UK and the EU.

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I agree, everything is speculation here and in the media, depending on the newspaper you read it will be hard brexit and the UK will become a world leader or it's doom and gloom or it won't happen. I suspect that it will be something in the middle which won't satisfy anybody but will be sold as a victory by both the UK and the EU.

Yes, but is it worth risking this happening if we could avoid it ?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/revealed-plans-for-doomsday-no-deal-brexit-02mld2jg2

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Yes, but is it worth risking this happening if we could avoid it ?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/revealed-plans-for-doomsday-no-deal-brexit-02mld2jg2

 

 

 

I dislike the idea of brexit purely out of emotional grounds, I like the idea of a USE, but the normal citizen has no influence, despite the referendum, what goes on behind closed doors is way beyond our control, Sir Humphrey would regard brexit as an unfortunate accident which can be reversed in the fullness of time and no doubt it will be.

[The Renegade]

32 minutes ago, tebee said:

Yes, but is it worth risking this happening if we could avoid it ?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/revealed-plans-for-doomsday-no-deal-brexit-02mld2jg2

Just one question

 

Quote

Whitehall has begun contingency planning for the port of Dover to collapse “on day one” if Britain crashes out of the EU, leading to critical shortages of supplies.

The Port of Dover has been operational since 1606, why would it now suddenly collapse on Day 1 of Brexit ?

 

Quote

Britain would be hit with shortages of medicine, fuel and food within a fortnight if the UK tries to leave the European Union without a deal, 

How stupid of me to think that under WTO rules no-one will be able to ship food, medicine or fuel to the UK ??

 

This article is just another '' Smell the fear '' article.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Just one question

 

The Port of Dover has been operational since 1606, why would it now suddenly collapse on Day 1 of Brexit ?

 

How stupid of me to think that under WTO rules no-one will be able to ship food, medicine or fuel to the UK ??

 

This article is just another '' Smell the fear '' article.

The port of Dover now handles 7 times the volume of traffic it did before we joined the EU. One of the reasons it's been able to do this is that there are no customs formalities there .Post-brexit every load will need to be checked and there just isn't the space to do it .

 

There are no rules preventing shipment of medicine, the article is talking about shipments getting delayed because of the physical congestion at the port.

 

Though of course we will need to get our own medicines agency set up before then, so we can authorize the sale of those medicines to the public - unless we rely  on the EU's one somehow.    

[tebee]

Following on from the above, the EU has prepared detailed guidelines about how medivines will be authorized for use Post-brexit - http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/general/general_content_001707.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac0580a809a7

 

There is nothing remotely similar from the UK side - does the government secretly know we are not really leaving and so it's not worth preparing or are they just incompetent ?   

[The Renegade]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

The port of Dover now handles 7 times the volume of traffic it did before we joined the EU.

Sure it does, no one is disputing that.

 

???

 

But if the article you quote is correct, how much is that volume of traffic going to fall on Brexit day ? Because there will be NO TRADE ??

 

Is Dover the only Port in the UK ?

 

Tell you what tebee, for a person who claimed yesterday that they were good at analytical thinking, you do not appear to be any good at plain thinking.

[The Renegade]

23 minutes ago, tebee said:

Following on from the above, the EU has prepared detailed guidelines about how medivines will be authorized for use Post-brexit - http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/general/general_content_001707.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac0580a809a7

 

There is nothing remotely similar from the UK side - does the government secretly know we are not really leaving and so it's not worth preparing or are they just incompetent ?   

When you can buy pre - approved and authorised medicines direct from the manufacturer, you do not really need a UK equivalent of EMA.

 

You then say '' there is nothing remotely similar in the UK ''

 

Then what is the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Authority ( MHRA ) 20 years ago it was called the Medicines Control Agency.

 

Quote

The MHRA is the competent authority of the UK. It liaises with all the devolved Governments and advises the UK licensing authority.

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/mhra/emea-rivalry-or-partnership/10004834.article

 

Another epic failure by the highly intelligent remainers.

[Kieran00001]

18 hours ago, The manic said:

Illegal things happen..sometimes not polo y...the hospital is a famous London hospital in the Kensington area of London. Regarding the deaths of patients in the UK at the hand of both immigrants and non immigrant staff do your own research. The language,poor hygiene and Lack of compassion is a recurring problem with third world workers in the NHS.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14921565

It's been a problem for years...the actual case I was referring to seems to have disappeared.  As does truth when issues of immigration and the NHS arise....but it will surface again...Meanwhile..good luck

 

You expect me to conduct research into an alleged disparity in care between native born and immigrant NHS staff?  I don't actually have the means to do that!  All I can do is read news reports and figures the NHS release.

 

What you have posted is someone who thought they knew better than the nurse, insisted on seeing a doctor, and blamed the nurses hesitance on their English ability. 

 

If it has been a problem for years it really should be easy for you to find some evidence, but you can't, can you?  So I have to disregard all that you have said, you claim it has vanished because it was the truth, that is the lamest excuse I have heard in a long while.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I agree, everything is speculation here and in the media, depending on the newspaper you read it will be hard brexit and the UK will become a world leader or it's doom and gloom or it won't happen. I suspect that it will be something in the middle which won't satisfy anybody but will be sold as a victory by both the UK and the EU.

 

I have to admit there are times when it looks like a total "buggers muddle" and sometimes it is not quite that bad.

 

In the meantime there isn't anything that posters on TVF or the voters in the UK can do about it, other than find something else to do and hope that it comes out somewhat satisfactory in the end.

 

As you point out, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bugger's Muddle

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I have to admit there are times when it looks like a total "buggers muddle" and sometimes it is not quite that bad.

 

In the meantime there isn't anything that posters on TVF or the voters in the UK can do about it, other than find something else to do and hope that it comes out somewhat satisfactory in the end.

 

As you point out, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bugger's Muddle

Rather like the industrial revolution, in the end money won the day.

[tebee]

7 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I agree, everything is speculation here and in the media, depending on the newspaper you read it will be hard brexit and the UK will become a world leader or it's doom and gloom or it won't happen. I suspect that it will be something in the middle which won't satisfy anybody but will be sold as a victory by both the UK and the EU.

Thinking about this, I don't see there is a middle way left other than remaining in the EU in all but name and I'm not sure there is time left to organize that.

 

I'm starting to conclude that the only two lightly scenarios left are  a hard Brexit with no deal next March of we just abandon the whole thing.

 

It was an answer to problems in the UK that were not of the EU's making, but our own.

[tebee]

6 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Just one question

 

The Port of Dover has been operational since 1606, why would it now suddenly collapse on Day 1 of Brexit ?

 

How stupid of me to think that under WTO rules no-one will be able to ship food, medicine or fuel to the UK ??

 

This article is just another '' Smell the fear '' article.

Just to show there are other who think it could be chaos, read this tweet and the replies from a prominent leave supporter 

 

And if there is even only a small chance of it being this bad is it worth risking it?

 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Thinking about this, I don't see there is a middle way left other than remaining in the EU in all but name and I'm not sure there is time left to organize that.

 

I'm starting to conclude that the only two lightly scenarios left are  a hard Brexit with no deal next March of we just abandon the whole thing.

 

It was an answer to problems in the UK that were not of the EU's making, but our own.

No, that won't do, neither side wants a hard brexit and forgetting the whole thing isn't politically possible apart from the loss of face (brexit means brexit) it would be political suicide. It will be fudged beyond recognition but the name for the fudge will be PC, there could even be clauses in very small letters about automatic reentry subject to changes in EU policy that meets the approval of HMG, should we live to see it it would be amusing.

[tebee]

13 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

No, that won't do, neither side wants a hard brexit and forgetting the whole thing isn't politically possible apart from the loss of face (brexit means brexit) it would be political suicide. It will be fudged beyond recognition but the name for the fudge will be PC, there could even be clauses in very small letters about automatic reentry subject to changes in EU policy that meets the approval of HMG, should we live to see it it would be amusing.

I agree neither side wants hard  brexit, but this government is so incompetent it might very well stumble into one.

 

I can't see any solution working other than Brexit in name only and I'm not sure if that is on offer - we have done no preparation for customs checks or replacing EU regulators - the only way we can survive that is staying in CU and SM.

 

Maybe  the government is hoping one of the challenges to the referendums validity will give them an excuse. I can't see the UK art 50 challenge getting anywhere, but the Schindler case might. 

[The Renegade]

20 minutes ago, tebee said:

Just to show there are other who think it could be chaos, read this tweet and the replies from a prominent leave supporter 

 

And if there is even only a small chance of it being this bad is it worth risking it?

 

A tweet on Tw@tter, yes that is enough to get some people rushing for their safe space.

 

I have now dragged my laptop under my bed and posting from the safety my bed provides ??

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

A tweet on Tw@tter, yes that is enough to get some people rushing for their safe space.

 

I have now dragged my laptop under my bed and posting from the safety my bed provides ??

watch out for spiders

[aright]

7 hours ago, tebee said:

Yes, but is it worth risking this happening if we could avoid it ?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/revealed-plans-for-doomsday-no-deal-brexit-02mld2jg2 

 

 

 

If leaving the EU was purely an economic exercise your is it worth the risk question would be valid but the issue goes beyond that. Most people vote in governments on the basis of their tax and spending policies but if these responsibilities are increasingly taken out of the hands of national governments how can you exercise a right of free choice? The EU Commission has shown contempt (see latest election results) for the concerns of ordinary people. The only reform the common man sees in the EU is that which moves it towards a European federal Superstate . For many people  economic predictions are mere conjecture whilst federalisation  is a certainty and this overrides the economic uncertainty.

If you make peaceful change impossible you make violent change inevitable...…..JFK

Just watch Italy! 

[tebee]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

......

 

In the meantime there isn't anything that posters on TVF or the voters in the UK can do about it, other than find something else to do and hope that it comes out somewhat satisfactory in the end.

 

......

People who know nothing about how Britain works, or how the EU works, or how international trade works, are deciding "what #Brexit means". And that's just the politicians.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

People who know nothing about how Britain works, or how the EU works, or how international trade works, 

Your comments over the last 3 weeks puts you firmly in that group.

 

People in glass houses etc.

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

If you make peaceful change impossible you make violent change inevitable...…..JFK

Just watch Italy! 

Juncker

 

Quote

Juncker: EU won’t ‘meddle’ in Italy’s affairs

Commission president says he wants to avoid mistakes of Greek crisis 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/02/juncker-eu-italy-olive-branch

 

Until Italy's budget lands at the European Commission for inspection and rubber-stamping, then all hell is going to break loose.

 

Shows just how Independent EZ Countries are when they have to present their Budgets to the EC for inspection before being given the go-ahead.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

15 minutes ago, tebee said:

People who know nothing about how Britain works, or how the EU works, or how international trade works, are deciding "what #Brexit means". And that's just the politicians.

…. and what do you know about it. We’ve endured nothing but drivel, copy & paste and third party links from you for weeks; all because you are concerned about your own personal situation as a UK citizen living in France …… tiresome, doesn't start to cover it

[tebee]

I see breixt as more of a reply to these sort of problems than anything from the EU

 

https://eand.co/the-age-of-tragedy-6b30fcf7ed1e

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

If leaving the EU was purely an economic exercise your is it worth the risk question would be valid but the issue goes beyond that. Most people vote in governments on the basis of their tax and spending policies but if these responsibilities are increasingly taken out of the hands of national governments how can you exercise a right of free choice? The EU Commission has shown contempt (see latest election results) for the concerns of ordinary people. The only reform the common man sees in the EU is that which moves it towards a European federal Superstate . For many people  economic predictions are mere conjecture whilst federalisation  is a certainty and this overrides the economic uncertainty.

If you make peaceful change impossible you make violent change inevitable...…..JFK

Just watch Italy! 

Italy, hah ! two thirds don't want to lose the Euro,no wonder when the unleashed Lira is the alternative, the two comedians bound by contract but that's about all will probably fall apart within 4 months, let them moan, it lets of steam. Even in ancient Rome they were governed by corruption and relied on foreign workers (slaves) and food from conquered regions, their democratic senate was a rubber stamp for an emperor held in place by a loyal army, when was Italy ever stable ?

[The Renegade]

Owen Jones, left wing, Social Democrat and EU loving Guardian columnist.

 

Quote

If Brussels doesn’t budge, calamity beckons for Italy – and the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/01/brussels-change-calamity-italy-eu-austerity

 

When someone like Owen Jones speaks out against the EU, there is something very far amiss.

[aright]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Italy, hah ! two thirds don't want to lose the Euro,no wonder when the unleashed Lira is the alternative, the two comedians bound by contract but that's about all will probably fall apart within 4 months, let them moan, it lets of steam. Even in ancient Rome they were governed by corruption and relied on foreign workers (slaves) and food from conquered regions, their democratic senate was a rubber stamp for an emperor held in place by a loyal army, when was Italy ever stable ?

Its not that they don't want to loose the Euro, they can't afford to ditch it. The euro was always necessary to achieve political unification: all states have their own currency.  It was designed not merely with no possible way back for the Franc, Mark or Lira but also to ensure that the fiscal affairs of member states were interlocked to a far greater extent than almost anybody  realizes.

All this of course to the benefit of German exports. Why don't we start calling the euro the mark since Germany seem to be the only country to have benefitted from it.

The role of euro sceptics in Europe, especially Italy, I believe will get progressively stronger and the part Junker and Germany  played in its ascendancy will become clearer. Whatever Remainers think, globalization is getting less and less popular and feelings of national independence and sovereignty are stronger. At a political level the European Commission is pushing hard for a single Euro super state but at a people level they are pushing hard against it.

I look forward to seeing you perform in the Colosseum. ? 

 

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Italy, hah ! two thirds don't want to lose the Euro,no wonder when the unleashed Lira is the alternative, the two comedians bound by contract but that's about all will probably fall apart within 4 months, let them moan, it lets of steam. Even in ancient Rome they were governed by corruption and relied on foreign workers (slaves) and food from conquered regions, their democratic senate was a rubber stamp for an emperor held in place by a loyal army, when was Italy ever stable ?

Your lack of knowledge and understanding about what is happening between the EU and the new Italian government is quite staggering; either that, or your sense of denial regarding the reality of the situation has spiralled completely out of control.

 

As for berating Italy and its people for the ancient history of the Roman empire, your association with irrelevance has truly reached new heights, even for such a specialist as yourself

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Your lack of knowledge and understanding about what is happening between the EU and the new Italian government is quite staggering; either that, or your sense of denial regarding the reality of the situation has spiralled completely out of control.

 

As for berating Italy and its people for the ancient history of the Roman empire, your association with irrelevance has truly reached new heights, even for such a specialist as yourself

ah, my old friend the school master. How long do you think this government will last and how many of their day dreams will they accomplish ? So tell me about the political stability of Italy.