Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

May I bring up country of origin?

 

Having a Euro1 rating for one's product is a big deal; the product can be sold as an EU product under dozens of trade deals.

 

UK products including cars will not qualify unless they are at least 55% manufactured in the EU. This applies equally to EU products with U.K. Sub assemblies.

 

Have any of the populists ANY idea how serious this issue is?

 

No. Thought not.....

When BMW announced last year that its new Electric Mini would be built at its Oxford factory, it said that being able to market the car as “Made in Britain” was an enormous advantage to selling the car worldwide. Manufacturers in both the UK and the EU will have to deal with whatever trade deals are finally agreed, but ‘Made in Britain’ still has a lot of clout throughout the world markets, BMW believe so even if you don’t. Maybe you should try and find some love for your country.

 

 

 

You continually use the label “populist” in a derogatory manner towards anyone that stands outside the established consensus, as if calling for change was beyond the pale.

 

It is remarkably arrogant to assume that any present system of governance, anywhere, is beyond criticism and therefore immune to change.

 

Throughout history, populist’s have acted as agents of change; it was only 100 years ago this year, that universal suffrage for men became law, abolishing the need to be a property owner to vote. This franchised all men, including soldiers in barracks, and some women on a more limited basis. This discrimination was abolished 10 years later in 1928 when women received full universal suffrage.

 

Rather than sneer at populists, a more pragmatic and edifying approach might be to understand why the discontent exists, and perhaps remember that without populist’s you may not now have the privilege of voting   

[tomacht8]

12 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

That's fantastic. At least we get the opportunity to vote them out every 5 years.

 

Can you tell me when we get to vote out the same incompetents, intrasingent's and idiots that make up the European Commission ?

 

You know, the lot that are the real power in the EU and have nothing more in mind than gathering even more power for themselves.

 

 

For your information.
The next EU election is 2019, but

you are probably not allowed to participate then.

 

The 2019 European elections will be the ninth direct election to the European Parliament. It is expected to take place from 23 to 26 May 2019 in the then 27 Member States of the European Union. [1] According to Art. 14 (2) of the EU Treaty, up to 750 members plus the Speaker of Parliament, ie a maximum of 751 members, are elected. [2] It is expected to be the first election to the European Parliament after the United Kingdom's exit from the EU. [3]

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

When BMW announced last year that its new Electric Mini would be built at its Oxford factory, it said that being able to market the car as “Made in Britain” was an enormous advantage to selling the car worldwide. Manufacturers in both the UK and the EU will have to deal with whatever trade deals are finally agreed, but ‘Made in Britain’ still has a lot of clout throughout the world markets, BMW believe so even if you don’t. Maybe you should try and find some love for your country.

 

 

 

You continually use the label “populist” in a derogatory manner towards anyone that stands outside the established consensus, as if calling for change was beyond the pale.

 

It is remarkably arrogant to assume that any present system of governance, anywhere, is beyond criticism and therefore immune to change.

 

Throughout history, populist’s have acted as agents of change; it was only 100 years ago this year, that universal suffrage for men became law, abolishing the need to be a property owner to vote. This franchised all men, including soldiers in barracks, and some women on a more limited basis. This discrimination was abolished 10 years later in 1928 when women received full universal suffrage.

 

Rather than sneer at populists, a more pragmatic and edifying approach might be to understand why the discontent exists, and pervhaps remember that without populist’s you may not now have the privilege of voting   

It was not ‘populism’ that extended suffrage to workingclass men in the UK, it was the long standing demands for the vote from labour unions gaining acceptance through the political and social changes of WW1.

 

If we are to examine ‘why discontent exists’ are we also going to examine the ‘fabrication and fermenting’ of discontent?

 

 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

For your information.
The next EU election is 2019, but

you are probably not allowed to participate then.

Come back when you understand the difference between the European Parliament and the the European Commission.

 

Another remainer that knows nothing about about the EU, despite that being a charge that is often leveled at Leavers.

 

Another epic fail by the highly educated remainers.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If we are to examine ‘why discontent exists’ are we also going to examine the ‘fabrication and fermenting’ of discontent?

How can we examine why the discontent exists, when the main cause of that discontent is in complete denial ?

[The Renegade]

Quote

People smugglers are avoiding tighter security at Channel ports by opening a route through the Irish Republic to get migrants into the UK, an investigation has found.

Migrants are paying at least £10,000 for EU passports before being flown from Paris to Dublin on the promise that identity checks are laxer than at Dover, Gatwick or Heathrow.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/gangs-smuggle-migrants-in-through-ireland-2zgdhh3wh

 

Another reason why the UK needs to get a grip of it's borders.

[StreetCowboy]

30 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Come back when you understand the difference between the European Parliament and the the European Commission.

 

Another remainer that knows nothing about about the EU, despite that being a charge that is often leveled at Leavers.

 

Another epic fail by the highly educated remainers.

I’m glad we have professional civil servants in Btritain, who are not subject to the fickle whim of the electorate.  And similarly, Europe

[StreetCowboy]

22 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/gangs-smuggle-migrants-in-through-ireland-2zgdhh3wh

 

Another reason why the UK needs to get a grip of it's borders.

Once ee’re Out, they’ll need to buy British passports; think what will happen to our balance of trade then - unless foreign criminals beat our own in the supply of bogus passports.  What is the government doing to ensure British criminal gangs do not lose out after Brexit?

 

I suppose there’s always smuggling

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said:

I’m glad we have professional civil servants in Btritain, who are not subject to the fickle whim of the electorate.  And similarly, Europe

C'mon, tell us the difference between the UK civil service and the EU Civil Service ( EC )

 

There is no comparison between them.

 

It's already been answered in the last 15 pages, so it should not take you long to come up with an answer.

 

 

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Once ee’re Out, they’ll need to buy British passports; think what will happen to our balance of trade then

I cannot make up my mind if you are trolling or just being stupid.

 

Do you really think black market passports would do anything to our balance of trade ?

[soalbundy]

59 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

That's fantastic. At least we get the opportunity to vote them out every 5 years.

 

Can you tell me when we get to vote out the same incompetents, intrasingent's and idiots that make up the European Commission ?

 

You know, the lot that are the real power in the EU and have nothing more in mind than gathering even more power for themselves.

 

 

why would you want to do that, you are leaving, or are you like the wannabe leaver Ambrose Pritchard of the Telegraph who thinks it is time to weep for the failed brexit.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

why would you want to do that, you are leaving, or are you like the wannabe leaver Ambrose Pritchard of the Telegraph who thinks it is time to weep for the failed brexit.

Enlighten me, Ohhh wise one.

 

What are you gibbering about ?

 

Quote

That's fantastic. At least we get the opportunity to vote them out every 5 years.

 

Can you tell me when we get to vote out the same incompetents, intrasingent's and idiots that make up the European Commission ?

In or out of the EU, the UK will still have elections every 5 years or so.

 

By remaining in the EU, we will still never get the opportunity to vote out the European Commission.

 

Have another go and tell me different ??

 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

Enlighten me, Ohhh wise one.

 

What are you gibbering about ?

 

In or out of the EU, the UK will still have elections every 5 years or so.

 

By remaining in the EU, we will still never get the opportunity to vote out the European Commission.

 

Have another go and tell me different ??

 

Telegraph today, ''Weep for brexit:the British dash for independence has failed'' 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

That's fantastic. At least we get the opportunity to vote them out every 5 years.

 

Can you tell me when we get to vote out the same incompetents, intrasingent's and idiots that make up the European Commission ?

 

You know, the lot that are the real power in the EU and have nothing more in mind than gathering even more power for themselves.

 

 

 Whilst I largely agree (especially about the eu commission, over whom the electorate have zero control), sadly uk politicians are also only interested in their own power and wealth ☹️.

 

As you say, at least uk politicians can be voted out every few years - hence their nightmare over the brexit referendum result!

 

It's an unfortunate fact of life that the last people who should be given power, are those who crave it - i.e. politicians.  Unfortunately, those who actually care about others and have no interest in power and wealth, have no interest in becoming politicians ☹️.  (With the very rare exception.)

Edited June 7, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I’m glad we have professional civil servants in Btritain, who are not subject to the fickle whim of the electorate.  And similarly, Europe

Really?

 

Those at the top are similarly only interested in their own power/wealth and maintaining the 'establishment' - to which they belong....

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Telegraph today, ''Weep for brexit:the British dash for independence has failed'' 

I haven't read the article, but the headline you mention sounds about right to me.  UK politicians (IMO) are looking for a way to remain part of the eu, without being voted out at the next election.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but time will tell.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Really?

 

Those at the top are similarly only interested in their own power/wealth and maintaining the 'establishment' - to which they belong....

There are still people who think power is in the hands of the electorate (I'm not of that number )

[transam]

Just now, soalbundy said:

There are still people who think power is in the hands of the electorate (I'm not of that number )

Well you are not in the Brit number eh.......we know you are in the German number....?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I haven't read the article, but the headline you mention sounds about right to me.  UK politicians (IMO) are looking for a way to remain part of the eu, without being voted out at the next election.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but time will tell.

No, you are correct.

 

Under Treeza the Appeaza, she is doing her utmost to keep the UK tied at the hip to the EU.

[soalbundy]

Just now, transam said:

Well you are not in the Brit number eh.......we know you are in the German number....?

I still have only a British passport, I was also referring to the electorate worldwide with the exception perhaps of the Nordic countries, their populations are small enough for a 'one opinion' society, the rest of the West is too big and too complicated to be truly democratic. 

[aright]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Presumably remainders then! ?

Yes I would agree. I heard an interesting slant on the respective voting I Q's from my pubs resident philosopher. It ran along the lines of " Of course the better educated voted remain, that's because the EU does far more for educated people than poor people"

I'm off to Portugal, back in a week.

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Well you are not in the Brit number eh.......we know you are in the German number....?

The 'problem' is that there are only a relatively small number of 'independent' voters in the uk - i.e. don't vote for the party for whom they've always voted, or (when piddled off enough...), abstained from voting.

 

The referendum was different insofar as even those being 'told' by the media and even their own MPs that they should vote remain - a large number FINALLY took into consideration their own reality, and voted otherwise.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The 'problem' is that there are only a relatively small number of 'independent' voters in the uk - i.e. don't vote for the party for whom they've always voted, or (when piddled off enough...), abstained from voting.

 

The referendum was different insofar as even those being 'told' by the media and even their own MPs that they should vote remain - a large number FINALLY took into consideration their own reality, and voted otherwise.

 

What makes you think it was reality that took into consideration rather than the lies the Leave campaign told them?

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What makes you think it was reality that took into consideration rather than the lies the Leave campaign told them?

No remain lies then...?

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What makes you think it was reality that took into consideration rather than the lies the Leave campaign told them?

Simple.

 

There followed a General Election in 2017. The 2 Parties that had a Manifesto pledge to leave the EU collectively pulled in just over 80% of votes.

 

The Lib Dems who had a Manifesto pledge to remain in the EU took a beating and returned a mere 12 MP's.

 

That 80% of those who voted in the GE, did not vote because they believed the lies told by both the leave and remain camps.

[dick dasterdly]

9 hours ago, aright said:

"According to Mercedes-Benz, 64 percent of its buyers are male, 64 percent college-educated, 63 percent in a professional or managerial position, 81 percent married and the median age is 48 and median income $119,500."

 

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Presumably remainders then! ?

Makes sense to me.

 

The upper quartile with close to average intelligence/little knowledge about things outside their sphere/an income over 119,500 - and MOST IMPORTANTLY, no care or consideration for anyone else....

 

But they are prepared to 'sacrifice' to buy an over-priced car as this shows their 'superiority' (in their little minds....) over those that feel no need or cannot afford these luxuries ?!

Edited June 7, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If we are to examine ‘why discontent exists’ are we also going to examine the ‘fabrication and fermenting’ of discontent?

Do you mean the fermenting caused by EU monetary policies that have caused the implosion of the economies of Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal, leaving 30% of Southern Europe’s youth unemployed.

 

Or the fermenting caused by the tidal wave of asylum seekers from Pakistan, Sudan, Eritrea, Afghanistan Somalia, and more, that have tailgated the genuine refugees into Europe.

 

All the political parties throughout the EU that have seen a surge in popularity (populism) in the last 3 years, have simple common denominator policies, anti-immigration and retention of cultural identity.

 

Who could possibly have thought that mass uncontrolled immigration, and screaming racist and xenophobe at anyone who questioned the wisdom of it, could lead to a backlash from the electorate …… well I never  

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

No remain lies then...?

 

Remain made no promises, so no, all they did was give potential scenarios, obviously none of those have yet had the chance to materialize.  Whereas Leave made promises they have already admitted they cannot keep, very different indeed.

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Simple.

 

There followed a General Election in 2017. The 2 Parties that had a Manifesto pledge to leave the EU collectively pulled in just over 80% of votes.

 

The Lib Dems who had a Manifesto pledge to remain in the EU took a beating and returned a mere 12 MP's.

 

That 80% of those who voted in the GE, did not vote because they believed the lies told by both the leave and remain camps.

 

It would take a very simple mindset to assume that the only reason every voter chose each of those two parties was on one single pledge.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Remain made no promises, so no, all they did was give potential scenarios, obviously none of those have yet had the chance to materialize.  Whereas Leave made promises they have already admitted they cannot keep, very different indeed.