Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[transam]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

Quote from an FT comment 

 

 When will the PM actually understand that the Brexit process is a business process not a political whim process? When will the PM actually understand that political whims pay no bills? Her stubbornness (not to be confused with resilience and determination) is selling the economic well being of this country's children down the river. There will be no deal with the EU. They do not need us, even less as the deadline approaches. We are as the value of an out of the money traded option as the date of expiry nears. End of March 2019 with no deal secured we will have lost all clout and have no underlying value. Quite an achievement for Mr Farage who has secured his own future in journalism.
 

 

[tebee]

11 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

How long has the UK been a member of the EU ?

 

Why does the UK have one of the lowest State Pensions of EU Members ?

 

Might it be that UK State Pensions are nothing to do with the EU and leaving or remaining in the EU will not change the fact that the UK has a sh!t State Pension.

 

Yes, the competence for pensions, and decisions as to the level thereof is at the state level  - what I  was pointing out was that a botched brexit or even just one where we don't take economics into consideration, may affect the level of the pound and the ability of the government to borrow money to pay the ever-increasing national debt. In turn this may mean   reductions in the already poor state pension.  

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

OK but many of that list are incompatible with single market membership. Much of the current British economy  is dependent on us being a single market member. It's something that's not been questioned n the last 40 years.  

 

Dropping out suddenly will cause firms to close or relocate to the rest of the EU. Airbus employees 17,000 people in the UK , with an estimated 110,000 people in support industries (including myself at one point in the past) It will be a major shock to the economy and we will take years to recover. Many of those jobs will never come back because some modern hi-tech  just can't exist in an economy as small as us on our own. Even leavers are now talking about possible Brexit benefits, but only in 30 years time. Is it worth it  ? you and I will probably be dead by then having survived our last years on much reduced pensions.

Economy... markets.... markets....economy! These are NOT the only issues but you just won't listen will you? Airbus and now BMW are warning, not saying anything for definite - there will be more of these threats from the big corporate elements who all all pro EU - all part of continuing Project Fear. Why should pensions necessarily be affected?

 

The EU and those who control it are responsible for ruining the continent of Europe.

 

If Britain is out of the EU when my last order is called, I'll be happy enough!

Edited June 23, 2018 by nauseus
pro for pre

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you explain which of the things that Leavers voted for would be delivered in a soft Brexit? For example:

 

- Ability to strike trade deals with other nations

- No EU laws forced upon us

- Reclaim fishing waters

- Come out of the CAP

- No ECJ jurisdiction

- No contributions to the EU budget

- No free movement of people

 

What would a soft Brexit deliver from the above list?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, tebee said:

OK but many of that list are incompatible with single market membership. Much of the current British economy  is dependent on us being a single market member. It's something that's not been questioned n the last 40 years.  

 

Dropping out suddenly will cause firms to close or relocate to the rest of the EU. Airbus employees 17,000 people in the UK , with an estimated 110,000 people in support industries (including myself at one point in the past) It will be a major shock to the economy and we will take years to recover. Many of those jobs will never come back because some modern hi-tech  just can't exist in an economy as small as us on our own. Even leavers are now talking about possible Brexit benefits, but only in 30 years time. Is it worth it  ? you and I will probably be dead by then having survived our last years on much reduced pensions.

"OK but many of that list are incompatible with single market membership."

 

Exactly!  You're finally beginning to understand the viewpoint of many brexiteers.

 

The rest is just typical project fear.

 

Sadly, I'm incapable of reading a crystal ball - only remainers possess this talent.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

And we do not benefit from membership of these agencies?

Not enough for the cost.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Are you being obtuse? I refuse to believe that you are incapable of understanding the point he was making - but in case that is so, he is highlighting the sophistry of the language that, once again, the Brexiteers are trying to seduce the country with. 

 

The Big Red Brexit Bus of Lies was one example - the Brexit Dividend is another. Rees Mogg knows that the only winners from Brexit will be him and his tax avoiding clients. He knows that we will suffer a net loss from Brexit - he only gives half the picture, and you seem to refuse to accept the other half.

Obtuse back at you if can't understand what Pilgrim said.

[The Renegade]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Are you being obtuse?

Brilliant satire from someone who was getting his jock strap in a twist over Max -- Fac as it might affect his ability to export from the UK to the Philippines.

 

??

 

 

[tebee]

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Economy... markets.... markets....economy! These are NOT the only issues but you just won't listen will you? Airbus and now BMW are warning, not saying anything for definite - there will be more of these threats from the big corporate elements who all all pro EU - all part of continuing Project Fear. Why should pensions necessarily be affected?

 

The EU and those who control it are responsible for ruining the continent of Europe.

 

If Britain is out of the EU when my last order is called, I'll be happy enough!

But don't you realize that having an economically disastrous hard brexit will only result in people wanting to rejoin the EU ?

 

Brexiters   will try to defect blame to the EU but there will be enough of us around to remind everyone that it was their( the Brexiters) decision to leave at all costs that precipitated the crisis.

 

Indeed there are those in the remain camp that say that having a bad brexit may be the only way to clear this out of the UK's system and let the two factions reunite after - otherwise UK society will be rent for a generation or more .

 

Again I quote from an FT comment

 

 Weep as I must - daily - at this self inflicted tragedy, I also find my sinews stiffening in equal measure.

 

Stiffening against the last residues of loyalty to a nation that I once called home and was proud to do so.

 

Now, whilst not yet mad, I find myself turning. Turning from wanting to prevent Brexit at all costs, to wanting to see a painful and brutal Hard Brexit such that the UK suffers a sharp recession and then a fast return of its  senses. 

 

For if it is to happen at all, then surely it must not be so soft as to let those who promoted this idle folly be able to claim that it was the fault of anyone else but them. No room for fudge and further lying, please!
 

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

But don't you realize that having an economically disastrous hard brexit will only result in people wanting to rejoin the EU ?

Can you not open your eyes and see that there might not be an EU to rejoin ?

 

Perhaps those specs you are wearing come with special filters that only allows you to see certain news. Mostly of Project Fear variety  and filter out articles of reality over the EU.

 

Brexit, is currently the least of the EU's worries.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

But don't you realize that having an economically disastrous hard brexit will only result in people wanting to rejoin the EU ?

 

Brexiters   will try to defect blame to the EU but there will be enough of us around to remind everyone that it was their( the Brexiters) decision to leave at all costs that precipitated the crisis.

 

Indeed there are those in the remain camp that say that having a bad brexit may be the only way to clear this out of the UK's system and let the two factions reunite after - otherwise UK society will be rent for a generation or more .

 

Again I quote from an FT comment

 

 Weep as I must - daily - at this self inflicted tragedy, I also find my sinews stiffening in equal measure.

 

Stiffening against the last residues of loyalty to a nation that I once called home and was proud to do so.

 

Now, whilst not yet mad, I find myself turning. Turning from wanting to prevent Brexit at all costs, to wanting to see a painful and brutal Hard Brexit such that the UK suffers a sharp recession and then a fast return of its  senses. 

 

For if it is to happen at all, then surely it must not be so soft as to let those who promoted this idle folly be able to claim that it was the fault of anyone else but them. No room for fudge and further lying, please!
 

"But don't you realize that having an economically disastrous hard brexit will only result in people wanting to rejoin the EU ?"

 

It was mostly (?) those on low wages that voted for brexit - and hard to see how any govt. would dare reduce the minimum wage.

 

The 'bad part' ALWAYS arrives on the doorstep of the poor....

 

The rest is just typical fear factor - unless one is fortunate enough to not only have a crystal ball, but also be able to read it.

 

To be fair, if there is another referendum a few years later that resulted in a 're-join' vote, I'd accept it.

Edited June 23, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[The Renegade]

tebee,

 

Came across an article in the Telegraph that immediately made think of you

 

Quote

Mountain rescuers refused to pick up a Ben Nevis climber who complained he was too wet to continue. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/22/mountain-rescuers-refuse-save-ben-nevis-climber-complained-wet/

 

It is a mindset ??

[Eloquent pilgrim]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

Now, whilst not yet mad, I find myself turning. Turning from wanting to prevent Brexit at all costs, to wanting to see a painful and brutal Hard Brexit such that the UK suffers a sharp recession and then a fast return of its  senses. 

This is typical of your continued hatred for the UK, and once again exposes you as having no concern whatsoever, for the British people or the UK. Your only selfish interest in this is your own personal status as a UK citizen living in France post-Brexit; shame on you tebee

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"But don't you realize that having an economically disastrous hard brexit will only result in people wanting to rejoin the EU ?"

 

It was mostly (?) those on low wages that voted for brexit - and hard to see how any govt. would dare reduce the minimum wage.

 

The 'bad part' ALWAYS arrives on the doorstep of the poor....

 

The rest is just typical fear factor - unless one is fortunate enough to not only have a crystal ball, but also be able to read it.

 

To be fair, if there is another referendum a few years later that resulted in a 're-join' vote, I'd accept it.

Actually, if the vote had been to remain - I'm damn sure that we wouldn't still be arguing about it years later!

 

Yes, ukip would still be in existence - as would those thinking the uk needed to leave.  But it would NEVER have reached these levels of hysteria about the referendum result!

Edited June 23, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[HAKAPALITA]

Seems to concern mainly Brits here who are a bit hard up. Teachers n Mongers who should be back home saving to retire in comfort.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, HAKAPALITA said:

Seems to concern mainly Brits here who are a bit hard up. Teachers n Mongers who should be back home saving to retire in comfort.

How on earth do you know that???

 

Join grouse in the 'insulting opinions only' corner....

Edited June 23, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[transam]

2 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Seems to concern mainly Brits here who are a bit hard up. Teachers n Mongers who should be back home saving to retire in comfort.

Yes me....Unfortunately me sweeping the gutters to keep the place clean didn't give me a chance to save for anything...

[HAKAPALITA]

Desperate Brits use Actually a lot ive noticed.Why.?...Like "Trust Me" as cheats do. Mate before they hit someone, strange language

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, HAKAPALITA said:

Desperate Brits use Actually a lot ive noticed.Why.?...Like "Trust Me" as cheats do. Mate before they hit someone, strange language

I assume that you've had more than a few drinks and have suffered a bad experience ☹️.

 

I'm sure that we've all had our own 'bad experiences', but it has nothing to do with this thread.

Edited June 23, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[HAKAPALITA]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes me....Unfortunately me sweeping the gutters to keep the place clean didn't give me a chance to save for anything...

Nice Cars from sweepin gutters

[tebee]

13 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

This is typical of your continued hatred for the UK, and once again exposes you as having no concern whatsoever, for the British people or the UK. Your only selfish interest in this is your own personal status as a UK citizen living in France post-Brexit; shame on you tebee

Er that wan't me, but someone else I was quoting - I see his point, but I don't think it is justice to afflict the people of the UK with a bad brexit, just to show they made a bad choice. 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Nice Cars from sweepin gutters

You don't know my history...............No silver spoon came my way....

[Eloquent pilgrim]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

Er that wan't me, but someone else I was quoting - I see his point, but I don't think it is justice to afflict the people of the UK with a bad brexit, just to show they made a bad choice. 

Well maybe you should thoroughly read what someone has written before quoting their comments; alternatively, don’t post them if you don't agree with them. The fact that you have posted their comment implies that you support what they have said

[tebee]

Another comment from the FT

 

The government appears to think as follows:

 

If Brexit happens and the bottom falls out of the economy, they will simply say that it's not their fault as they had no choice but to execute the so-called will of the people (vile phrase) and that they should get credit for doing so.

 

If Brexit doesn't happen, a certain part of the UKIP/Tory base will always blame the Tories for bottling it, no matter how much they protest that they had to turn aside to prevent the destruction of the economy.  The idiots who are hardcore Leavers will always think that they were somehow betrayed.  I don't predict a riot, but many of them will be alienated from the Tories for a long time.  Of course, the filthy rich will have no choice but to continue to support the party, but there's only so many of them.  People whose only credentials are a degree in the Deep State that they received from YouTube are not easy to convince as facts fail to impress them.

 

Of course, if Brexit does happen and all is well, Boris will ride into town on a unicorn with Liam Fox on the horn.

I suspect the most likely positive result will be a long, long transition period, during which the Remainers will gather enough force for a second referendum and an ultimate reversal of this giant waste of time and resources.  By then, a majority of the Brexit pensioners will have gone to that great UKIP party conference in the sky.
 

[The Renegade]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

I see his point, but I don't think it is justice to afflict the people of the UK with a bad brexit, just to show they made a bad choice. 

I await your explanation of what you deem to be a '' Good Brexit ''

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

Another comment from the FT

 

The government appears to think as follows:

'' Appears to think ''

 

Is as much use as erectile dysfunction at an orgy.

 

tebee. I mean this with the greatest of respect.

 

Get a F***ing grip of yourself.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

I await your explanation of what you deem to be a '' Good Brexit ''

one that does not cause a financial disaster will do.

 

I'd prefer one that kept FOM rights but the above will do. 

[tebee]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

.....

 

Is as much use as erectile dysfunction at an orgy.

 

......

Been there, done that.....

 

Well have you any idea what they are thinking at the moment? I haven't and I'm not sure they do.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

'd prefer one that kept FOM rights but the above will do. 

Obviously you missed this one that I posted earlier

 

Quote

Almost three quarters of British adults support Theresa May’s policy to cut immigration, according to a Deltapoll survey published by Channel 4 News Friday.

Quote

Voters from across the political spectrum expressed similar views, with 86 percent of Conservative voters and two thirds of Labour voters supporting reducing EU immigration.

https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/

 

Out of all the things that you could have said, for you the number 1 priority is keeping FOM rights.

 

Am I to assume that you are worried that you might get kicked out of France and do not care about the 3 quarters of UK adults in the above poll ?

[HAKAPALITA]

24 minutes ago, transam said:

You don't know my history...............No silver spoon came my way....

Neither did Alan Sugar.

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Obviously you missed this one that I posted earlier

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-three-quarters-of-brits-back-dramatic-fall-in-immigration/

 

Out of all the things that you could have said, for you the number 1 priority is keeping FOM rights.

 

Am I to assume that you are worried that you might get kicked out of France and do not care about the 3 quarters of UK adults in the above poll ?

I am not such a malibale piece mindles dogshit that I find it nessesary to align my views with the majority of population thank you. I have my own views and opinions.

 

I've always considered migration a good thing, even before I did it myself. It's always the best and brightest who move. Without it the UK would have gone the same way as Japan, caught up in years of stagnation.