Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[nontabury]

10 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

 

 

So...you want to say that they do not have to employ in the UK and pay UK taxes or that some of their employees are not British citizens?

Please, stop trying to twist your answers. You stated they  have to employ British fishermen. To which I said B.S. I replied that they do not employ British fishermen. As you would see if you visited their local dole office.

Edited March 14, 2018 by nontabury

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Some of these are possible. Others are twisting the facts to form an argument.

 

For example, "Fishing accounts for 0.5% of the Brit economy".  Well fishing could be a much bigger part of the Brit economy if we regained control of our waters, so that point is moot.  

No.. that won't happen to any significant figure.you have have more fish and they don't exist.....what might happen is the range of fish we eat will reduce.

[Airbagwill]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Using the size of the industry now (since it has shrunk due to the CFP) defeats the object of that argument. Explain how our fishing industry won't grow once we have control over the fishing waters surrounding our island.

Itching grow due to the fishing grounds welooelse, the fish we can't sell/export due to duties and the lack of fish stocks...... there is no rabbit in the Brexit hat.

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Please, stop trying to twist your answers. You stated they  have to employ British fishermen. To which I said B.S. I replied that they do not employ British fishermen. As you would see if you visited their local dole office.

I guess they employ the fishermen who are not in the dole office,  I guess the fishing industry has probably shed a lot of jobs as modernisation has boosted productivity, with economies of scale.  Hopefully, once inward capital investment is reduced, we can go back to more labour-intensive meanss of production and have jobs for all.  It will be a Great Leap Forward

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

"Just to avoid spending falling as a fraction of national income beyond 2019–20 he would need to find an additional £14 billion a year, relative to current plans, by 2022-23."

 

The IFS do not make wild speculations. 

 

 

Just before the referendum, they were forecasting the deficit to happen in 2019:

 

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf

 

That's now changed to the mid-2020s.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

25 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I guess they employ the fishermen who are not in the dole office,  I guess the fishing industry has probably shed a lot of jobs as modernisation has boosted productivity, with economies of scale.  Hopefully, once inward capital investment is reduced, we can go back to more labour-intensive meanss of production and have jobs for all.  It will be a Great Leap Forward

 

Fishing is, by necessity, a labour-intensive industry. The only reason why there are less jobs in the UK is because we have a smaller share of the stocks than we used to. 

[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Itching grow due to the fishing grounds welooelse, the fish we can't sell/export due to duties and the lack of fish stocks...... there is no rabbit in the Brexit hat.

 

The lack of fish stocks that European fishing fleets hog our waters not to catch.

 

Europe won't buy our fish. They'll buy it from further afield, less fresh, and with the same duties imposed.

[Khun Han]

41 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

No.. that won't happen to any significant figure.you have have more fish and they don't exist.....what might happen is the range of fish we eat will reduce.

 

Don't need more fish. Better control of existing stocks will work fine.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

 

      The UK will remain.

Yes. Remain the UK.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Itching grow due to the fishing grounds welooelse, the fish we can't sell/export due to duties and the lack of fish stocks...... there is no rabbit in the Brexit hat.

No rabbiit.............but shedloads of fish.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Itching grow due to the fishing grounds welooelse, the fish we can't sell/export due to duties and the lack of fish stocks...... there is no rabbit in the Brexit hat.

"Itching grow due to the fishing grounds welooelse"

I'm not doing a grammar police thing, but I'm genuinely baffled by that sentence.

In any case, I believe there are opportunities for the UK to re-establish fishing as a major industry once we exit the CFP and implement our own policies for OUR fishing waters. We are an island nation surrounded by sea. Why wouldn't we have a thriving fishing industry of our own?!

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I guess they employ the fishermen who are not in the dole office,  I guess the fishing industry has probably shed a lot of jobs as modernisation has boosted productivity, with economies of scale.  Hopefully, once inward capital investment is reduced, we can go back to more labour-intensive meanss of production and have jobs for all.  It will be a Great Leap Forward

Not correct, the fishing industry is, and always will be to some extent, labour intensive. Most of the jobs in the industry were lost/ sacrificed in order that the U.K. could gain entry into the e.e.c the forerunner of what became the hated E.U.

 In a previouse post  I showed a photograph of part of the largest fishing fleet in the world, now I show a photograph of what is now the remnants of that same fleet, the last sidewinder trawler, The Article Corsair, a museum piece.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by nontabury

[nontabury]

On 08/03/2018 at 12:41 PM, rockingrobin said:

The cattle is being moved from one farm to another. The amount of paperwork is minimal. The passport is issued at birth, or importation and remains with the beast for life. The update of the passport can be done online.

As promised I have now checked the point you raised with my farmer friend, and yes you are correct.However, unfortunately that is the easy part, the farmer still has to do most of the unnecessary clerical work, which is very time consuming.

 

[Airbagwill]

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Don't need more fish. Better control of existing stocks will work fine.

Some stocks have all but disappeared, EU regs have meant that some have improved.....it is unlikely that post Brexit UK will manage stocks any better 

[Khun Han]

54 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Some stocks have all but disappeared, EU regs have meant that some have improved.....it is unlikely that post Brexit UK will manage stocks any better 

 

Stocks will improve markedly once the UK regains control of them, for the simple reason that there will be less fishing for a while. Why is it unlikely that post-brexit UK will manage stocks better than the EU? Please spare us one of the childish insults and try to come up with a sensible answer.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Khun Han

[simoh1490]

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

Just before the referendum, they were forecasting the deficit to happen in 2019:

 

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf

 

That's now changed to the mid-2020s.

You do speak such nonsense some times and of course only cherry pick phrases that fit with what you'd like to have seen written. You should read that link in detail and in particular pages 4 & 5, the short term and long term, in context.

 

People have been telling you for months if not years that Brexit would cause a financial hit to the economy, that point was emphasised even before the vote but you and your cronies wouldn't have it. Now we're creeping up on that time where the chickens might just come home to roost and you're trying to find fault with the timing of these forecasts and blame other new remain related tactics for why things aren't all tickety-boo. Well I'll tell you why things aren't all tickety-boo and that's because Brexit as an entity has its head where the sun doesn't shine, case in point from the link provided:  "The estimates of short-run effects range from reducing GDP by 6% (Société Générale and the Treasury’s ‘severe shock’ scenario) to increasing it by 1.6% (Economists for Brexit)" - increase GDP by 1.6% just for voting to leave, you couldn't make this stuff if you tried!

 

I'll tell you what Mr Han, if this debacle goes through, what happens to the country will be on your head and I for one be looking for the tallest soap box I can find to stand on to point you and your puppets out to the angry crowd. Decreased social spending, increased taxes, increased crime and even higher crime and social unrest, those are the things YOU are advocating and those are the things YOU will be held accountable for if this does proceed as you intend.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

You do speak such nonsense some times and of course only cherry pick phrases that fit with what you'd like to have seen written. You should read that link in detail and in particular pages 4 & 5, the short term and long term, in context.

 

People have been telling you for months if not years that Brexit would cause a financial hit to the economy, that point was emphasised even before the vote but you and your cronies wouldn't have it. Now we're creeping up on that time where the chickens might just come home to roost and you're trying to find fault with the timing of these forecasts and blame other new remain related tactics for why things aren't all tickety-boo. Well I'll tell you why things aren't all tickety-boo and that's because Brexit as an entity has its head where the sun doesn't shine, case in point from the link provided:  "The estimates of short-run effects range from reducing GDP by 6% (Société Générale and the Treasury’s ‘severe shock’ scenario) to increasing it by 1.6% (Economists for Brexit)" - increase GDP by 1.6% just for voting to leave, you couldn't make this stuff if you tried!

 

I'll tell you what Mr Han, if this debacle goes through, what happens to the country will be on your head and I for one be looking for the tallest soap box I can find to stand on to point you and your puppets out to the angry crowd. Decreased social spending, increased taxes, increased crime and even higher crime and social unrest, those are the things YOU are advocating and those are the things YOU will be held accountable for if this does proceed as you intend.

 

What on earth are you getting yourself all worked up about? Take the tin foil hat off. I don't have "cronies" or "puppets". I'm an individual with strong connections to Thailand posting opinions on on politics on a Thai-centric internet forum, the same as yourself.

 

Anyway, getting back to the point, timing is everything. Only those who don't want so see can't see that the predictions of economic failure simply keep on failing to materialise, over and over and over again. Only those who don't want to see can't see that they are nothing more than propaganda sponsored by corporate globalists who want to turn Europe into a one size fits all superstate that will be much more suited to their money making operations.

 

As to your last paragraph, I can only assume you've had a jolly good evening on the sauce. Hope you enjoyed it.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What on earth are you getting yourself all worked up about? Take the tin foil hat off. I don't have "cronies" or "puppets". I'm an individual with strong connections to Thailand posting opinions on on politics on a Thai-centric internet forum, the same as yourself.

 

Anyway, getting back to the point, timing is everything. Only those who don't want so see can't see that the predictions of economic failure simply keep on failing to materialise, over and over and over again. Only those who don't want to see can't see that they are nothing more than propaganda sponsored by corporate globalists who want to turn Europe into a one size fits all superstate that will be much more suited to their money making operations.

 

As to your last paragraph, I can only assume you've had a jolly good evening on the sauce. Hope you enjoyed it.

My apologies for my typo and spelling error, I did not intend to write puppets but rather muppets instead!

 

And don't deflect, you raised a point, I shot it down, now you sidetrack with attitude and irrelevance - if you have a point you strongly believe in, argue the case man and support it with evidence rather than twisting fact and throwing out one liners that are irrelevant, man up in this debate and debate with fact!

 

And I don't drink!

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by simoh1490

[StreetCowboy]

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

....

And I don't drink!

 

 

Well, that's one logical explanation out the window, then.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

My apologies for my typo and spelling error, I did not intend to write puppets but rather muppets instead!

 

And don't deflect, you raised a point, I shot it down, now you sidetrack with attitude and irrelevance - if you have a point you strongly believe in, argue the case man and support it with evidence rather than twisting fact and throwing out one liners that are irrelevant, man up in this debate and debate with fact!

 

And I don't drink!

 

 

 

You didn't shoot my point down. You used your standard deflection that only the timing is wrong. I pointed out that the timing is perpetually wrong. And I can't help noting that you are trying to bait me here. I hope the mods are following this.

[aright]

30 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

 Decreased social spending, increased taxes, increased crime and even higher crime and social unrest, those are the things YOU are advocating and those are the things YOU will be held accountable for if this does proceed as you intend.

Excuse me. This is a post about the UK and Brexit, not about Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Hungary et al. 

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You didn't shoot my point down. You used your standard deflection that only the timing is wrong. I pointed out that the timing is perpetually wrong. And I can't help noting that you are trying to bait me here. I hope the mods are following this.

You see there you go again, I accuse you of deflection and what's your response, to accuse me of deflection, it's a pathetic and kindergardenish way to debate anything.

 

Every time a study or report showing the economic impact of Brexit is put forward you always manage to avoid its contents and point to other reports where the results were wrong. You almost never acknowledge that only some items in these reports were inaccurate or that the timing was off, significantly you repeatedly fail to acknowledge that the overarching principle in all of them is actually correct, that Brexit will result in a significant hit to the economy and we have been saying that for many many months. People don't want to debate a topic as serious and important as Brexit with other people who ignore fact and best efforts economic forecasts, such people simply don't have anything worthwhile or useful to say.

Edited March 15, 2018 by simoh1490

[cookieqw]

On 27/02/2018 at 10:01 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

i dont know where you live but i have a very good friend who works in the NHS and she tells me that the amount of money spent on interpreters for foreign patients is astronomical, this comes out of the NHS budget. by the way the country voted OUT, now its time for the MPs to start earning their keep. PS you are probably right in what you say but what have the MPs done for the past 40 or so years to get this country in such a state that it has decided to leave the all encompassing protective arms of the all powerful EU. it should have stayed at the original countries. i'm suprised that their are not any russians flooding the west as i believe Moscow is in Europe

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Excuse me. This is a post about the UK and Brexit, not about Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Hungary et al. 

Agreed - perhaps you missed the seriously increased crime figures recently.

[aright]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

Agreed - perhaps you missed the seriously increased crime figures recently.

I did please give me chapter and verse.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

I did please give me chapter and verse.

"The rise in crime in England and Wales is accelerating, according to police figures, which show a 14% year-on-year increase in offences recorded by forces across England and Wales."

 

"Knife crime has gone up even more steeply, by 21% in the 12 months to September, and gun crime has risen by 20%, according to quarterly figures released on Thursday.

Police chiefs said the increases – including a 32% rise in domestic burglary to 261,965 offences and an 18% rise in vehicle-related crimes (443,577 offences) alongside the sharp rises in violent crime – marked a turning point after more than 20 years of sustained falls in these categories."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/25/knife-and-gun-rises-sharply-in-england-and-wales

[StreetCowboy]

10 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You see there you go again, I accuse you of deflection and what's your response, to accuse me of deflection, it's a pathetic and kindergardenish way to debate anything.

 

Every time a study or report showing the economic impact of Brexit is put forward you always manage to avoid its contents and point to other reports where the results were wrong. You almost never acknowledge that only some items in these reports were inaccurate or that the timing was off, significantly you repeatedly fail to acknowledge that the overarching principle in all of them is actually correct, that Brexit will result in a significant hit to the economy and we have been saying that for many many months. People don't want to debate a topic as serious and important as Brexit with other people who ignore fact and best efforts economic forecasts, such people simply don't have anything worthwhile or useful to say.

The economics are irrelevant.

 

We want to be an inward-looking, insular nation, where people cannot easily travel to their neighbouring countries, with our own standards and values, not those shared by our neighbours and trading partners.  We want to have our own, more exciting and productive labour laws, rather than being stifled by the same workers' rights that have crippled French and German manufacturing industry.

[aright]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"The rise in crime in England and Wales is accelerating, according to police figures, which show a 14% year-on-year increase in offences recorded by forces across England and Wales."

 

"Knife crime has gone up even more steeply, by 21% in the 12 months to September, and gun crime has risen by 20%, according to quarterly figures released on Thursday.

Police chiefs said the increases – including a 32% rise in domestic burglary to 261,965 offences and an 18% rise in vehicle-related crimes (443,577 offences) alongside the sharp rises in violent crime – marked a turning point after more than 20 years of sustained falls in these categories."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/25/knife-and-gun-rises-sharply-in-england-and-wales

So what is the link between this and Brexit?

[Kieran00001]

10 hours ago, nontabury said:

Please, stop trying to twist your answers. You stated they  have to employ British fishermen. To which I said B.S. I replied that they do not employ British fishermen. As you would see if you visited their local dole office.

 

They are British companies who have to obey British employment law.