Is 'Dek Dee' at the root of Thailand's problems?

[PREM-R]

There has been much discussion regarding the Thai education system and its apparent lack of success despite the high, per capita, expenditure allocated by several governments over many years. However, it does appear that the development of: questioning, thinking, active and argumentative students is not what the Thai education system aims to produce, rather it is designed to provide the nation with ‘Dek Dee’ (Good Children).

 

Thailand’s  Basic Education Core Curriculum in 2008 described the characteristics desired in school children as: showing respect and gratitude to seniors, loyalty to the nation and religion, and cherishing Thai-ness. Thailand has, supposedly, transformed its educational system from being ‘teacher-centric’ to ‘child-centric’; however, the ‘Dek Dee’ ideology still demands an unchanged power relationship between ‘seniors’ and ‘juniors’ (teachers and students).

The Conservative Elite of Thailand continue to believe that a hierarchical power relationship in schools is necessary to construct and reproduce the ‘Dek Dee’ ideology, which in turn, validates their seniority-based society and produces ‘good citizens’.

 

Consequently, the state schools continue with a hierarchical relationship between students and teachers meaning that the pedagogic achievement of the Thai state school is to produce obedient citizens who function within a seniority  culture. (citizens that ‘know their place’).

 

The seeming lack of educational success within the Thai schools and the Thai children’s “lack of competence, critical ability and maturity”, as asserted by the MIL project and consequent UNESCO reports,  may relate to system failings rather than a failing of the Thai children themselves.

 

Some Thai educators have spoken out, suggesting that respect for seniors is fine but believing  in “authority”, without question, is a problem. Showing respect, in the Thai context, should not mean being ‘under control’, but rather the children should express their views and beliefs with respect to their seniors’ knowledge, not their age or status. Puey Ungphakorn (a graduate of the London School of Economics and a former rector of Thammasart University) argued against the use of a singular ideology in education, labeling it as a means by which authoritarians can force people to think and act in the same way.

 

So, the seeming lack of educational achievement in the Thai schools may not be considered as failure by the Elites who ‘own’ the country, on the contrary, they may be more than satisfied with the outcomes.

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by PREM-R

[worgeordie]

Thai government's don't want a thinking population,easier to control,

the less they know,and Thailand is not the only one.

 

regards worgeordie

 

[rwdrwdrwd]

Nail on head, and exactly why mine don't go to a Thai curriculum school - the indoctrination starts in kindergarten.

Edited March 1, 2018 by rwdrwdrwd

[Bob12345]

Thais seem (mistakenly) proud to have never been colonized; they think they have freedom.

 

But all are slaves: dumbed down minions following their "masters" and saying, doing, and even thinking what their masters want.

 

No voting rights, limited international opportunities, and crawling on the floor for their masters (which starts with little kids crawling in front of their teachers on teacher day).

[Jip99]

14 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Thai government's don't want a thinking population,easier to control,

the less they know,and Thailand is not the only one.

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

 

It is little to do with governments........ control and self-interest goes way beyond that.

[BobbyL]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Thais seem (mistakenly) proud to have never been colonized; they think they have freedom.

 

Very true.

 

It was only recently that my wife (after living and studying in the UK for two years) said that if Thailand had been colonised by say the UK decades ago, it may actually have benefited the country today and in to the future.

 

I bet a large percentage of Thai people would never even contemplate that thought as they seem to have this strong, deep rooted nationalistic attitude, all which is ingrained from a young age. 

[MrPatrickThai]

9 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Very true.

 

It was only recently that my wife (after living and studying in the UK for two years) said that if Thailand had been colonised by say the UK decades ago, it may actually have benefited the country today and in to the future.

 

I bet a large percentage of Thai people would never even contemplate that thought as they seem to have this strong, deep rooted nationalistic attitude, all which is ingrained from a young age. 

Thais have a lot of freedom, unlike the UK.

My kids did very well in the government system, however went/go to unis abroad.

Good OP.  It's not just the elites that are happy. Somchai at the tax office is also happy as he also has his own little kingdom. Thai society is totally based on a social hierarchy. The philosophy of not teaching the kids is actually one that comes from China. 

In the UK btw, national pride was ingrained into me. Standing for the anthem at cinemas etc. 

[MrPatrickThai]

16 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

It was only recently that my wife (after living and studying in the UK for two years) said that if Thailand had been colonised by say the UK decades ago, it may actually have benefited the country today and in to the future.

Why does she think that? 

[BobbyL]

2 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Thais have a lot of freedom, unlike the UK.

 

I find that highly confusing unless your children also hold a foreign passport. 

 

If you refer to freedom in their own country, highly debatable depending on their upbringing and family. 

 

If you refer to freedom to travel and work abroad etc, also highly debatable as Thai nationals cannot easily travel or emigrate around the world. 

 

[BobbyL]

3 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Why does she think that? 

It was a conversation. Something she has never mentioned before. It might be wrong, but there are certainly lots of things that are very ingrained in society here that without a doubt hold the nation back. Anyone who has lived here for some time knows that. 

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

I find that highly confusing unless your children also hold a foreign passport. 

 

If you refer to freedom in their own country, highly debatable depending on their upbringing and family. 

 

If you refer to freedom to travel and work abroad etc, also highly debatable as Thai nationals cannot easily travel or emigrate around the world. 

 

My kids have  2 passports, obviously. I'm talking about freedom in general, not just travelling abroad. However, my sister in law works in Germany, and I have known many many Thais that have worked or studied abroad. Had a taxi driver this week who worked abroad for 8 years. 

[Thaidream]

This is an extremely complex subject and there is no way that any foreigner can  fully understand all the dynamics involved.

Thais have the same range of IQs that other people have in other countries. However, Thais are taught from birth that respect of their culture is foremost in their life. That, in itself is a good thing as Thai culture and all of it's intricacies does produce caring and upstanding citizens.

Where it all goes awry is the use of a single educational model that forces students to learn by rote, never question and never develop an inquisitive mindset. Throw in the face issue and you have a very one dimensional academic product.

 

My step daughter is a great example of a Thai student who is gentle; having a deep respect for Thai culture; religion and the family unit. An excellent student who excels at very difficult subjects but never asks Why about anything and keeps most opinions to herself. She is becoming more outgoing as she moves into University but the teaching methodology is the same- lecture and tests and results.She will succeed in Thai business  but have a hard time thinking outside of the box and moving into an international environment.

 

The Government controls the educational process and therein lies the problem. Teachers are trained under the Government system. There is no divergence; no discussion of anything that could possibly be considered controversial and therefore no way to achieve the ability to think and thus have a divergent opinion.

 

IMHO- Thailand has good natural resources; a willing population who with proper training  an education can succeed and excel.  My step daughter actually on my urging gave an opinion and had the right answer- "We need a new generation, younger and with new ideas to take over". Maybe there is hope.

[Cranky]

3 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Racial nonsense. Do you have any Thai relatives btw, maybe a Thai girlfriend or wife?

Absolutely.  My (Thai) missis is a case in point - she's very intelligent, speaks excellent English and learns quickly, reads a lot and watches educational TV rather than soaps - it's not her fault she had a crap education and graduating from high school at age 18 left her on a par with an 11+ (almost).  Big problem - (which she now recognises aged 30 something) is that when she left school, graduation certificate in hand, she actually believed she was well educated. 

 

Fast forward a few years, now with a law degree which is totally and utterly useless as no law firm will even consider it a qualification as it was obtained through years of correspondence.  Zero prospects of what 'we' would consider a proper job with commensurate wage.

[MrPatrickThai]

I've lived here many years and known many guys to go 'home' for their children's education. Not all turn out well. One old friend told me recently that his daughter was pregnant at 16 and in jail at 18, from dealing drugs.

There are pros and cons about going to school in Thailand. Mostly cons, for sure unless the parent takes interest. 

[MrPatrickThai]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

This is an extremely complex subject and there is no way that any foreigner can  fully understand all the dynamics involved.

I disagree. Perhaps change 'foreigner' to expat who doesn't learn the Thai language or integrate into society.

[Andycoops]

Completely agree with the OP.

[MrPatrickThai]

9 minutes ago, Cranky said:

Fast forward a few years, now with a law degree which is totally and utterly useless as no law firm will even consider it a qualification as it was obtained through years of correspondence.  Zero prospects of what 'we' would consider a proper job with commensurate wage.

The well-paid jobs are going to young graduates with a Master's from abroad. 

[Thaidream]

Mr Patrick is  correct- one must be in Thailand long term and speak Thai to fully comprehend this issue and yes all the good paying jobs are going to Thais with Master's Degrees from abroad.

I also find interesting that most Thais who go abroad for  several years to study and/or work come back to Thailand and have lost their Thainess. They  become irritated at the same things we do and often actually speak about it but they are smart enough not to go public with it.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

24 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

I find that highly confusing unless your children also hold a foreign passport. 

 

If you refer to freedom in their own country, highly debatable depending on their upbringing and family. 

 

Thais are more free in many senses.  They are not subject to such rigorous enforcement of (often petty) laws.  They are free to do what they like without having a CCTV camera peering over their shoulder every 10 metres like in the UK.  The UK is a bureaucratic open prison.

[MrPatrickThai]

10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Mr Patrick is  correct- one must be in Thailand long term and speak Thai to fully comprehend this issue and yes all the good paying jobs are going to Thais with Master's Degrees from abroad.

I also find interesting that most Thais who go abroad for  several years to study and/or work come back to Thailand and have lost their Thainess. They  become irritated at the same things we do and often actually speak about it but they are smart enough not to go public with it.

I read CSI LA on facebook. More and more are speaking out about these issues. 

[Bangkok Barry]

47 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Racial nonsense. Do you have any Thai relatives btw, maybe a Thai girlfriend or wife?

Google IQ levels in different countries. Thailand is waaaay down the list. Why that is so is referred to in several of the above posts. The system does not encourage critical think, only that you mustn't question your elders.

[ThaiFelix]

45 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

It was a conversation. Something she has never mentioned before. It might be wrong, but there are certainly lots of things that are very ingrained in society here that without a doubt hold the nation back. Anyone who has lived here for some time knows that. 

In my opinion Thailand would have benefited through colonisation, although I do despise it.  One of the first things a colonial power does is streamline bureaucracy.  The Thai administration is inefficient because it is steeped in nepotism.  Many govt processes are created just to give jobs to family, friends, and those who are considered loyal.  Qualifications, competence, and experience are low on the list.

[Bangkok Barry]

43 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

 

IMHO- Thailand has good natural resources; a willing population who with proper training  an education can succeed and excel.  My step daughter actually on my urging gave an opinion and had the right answer- "We need a new generation, younger and with new ideas to take over". Maybe there is hope.

It's interesting that one area, maybe the only area, in which Thais excel is the arts. Blunting that kind of creativity by rote learning is almost impossible so the real potential of a Thai is able to shine through.

[BobbyL]

30 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Mr Patrick is  correct- one must be in Thailand long term and speak Thai to fully comprehend this issue and yes all the good paying jobs are going to Thais with Master's Degrees from abroad.

I also find interesting that most Thais who go abroad for  several years to study and/or work come back to Thailand and have lost their Thainess. They  become irritated at the same things we do and often actually speak about it but they are smart enough not to go public with it.

I can agree with this. My wife studied an MSc in England and we moved back here in August. Those two years definitely changed her outlook on things here a lot. 

[MrPatrickThai]

7 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Google IQ levels in different countries. Thailand is waaaay down the list. Why that is so is referred to in several of the above posts. The system does not encourage critical think, only that you mustn't question your elders.

I'm aware of IQ's in different countries. This has nothing to do with critical thinking, IMHO. 

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

In my opinion Thailand would have benefited through colonisation, although I do despise it.  One of the first things a colonial power does is streamline bureaucracy.  The Thai administration is inefficient because it is steeped in nepotism.  Many govt processes are created just to give jobs to family, friends, and those who are considered loyal.  Qualifications, competence, and experience are low on the list.

Like India benefited? 

[BobbyL]

1 minute ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I'm aware of IQ's in different countries. This has nothing to do with critical thinking, IMHO. 

Critical thinking is a huge thing. Being allowed to have an open opinion, questioning things and learning about worldwide issues is something sorely lost in normal education here. 

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Thais seem (mistakenly) proud to have never been colonized; they think they have freedom.

They're probably really jealous of countries that were well and truly colonized and plundered like Zimbabwe, Angola, Pakistan, South Africa, Cambodia & Laos, The Philippines, Myanmar, India, etc 

[MrPatrickThai]

Interesting, In the USA, the Jewish race has the highest IQ, followed by Asians. 

[Xaos]

Society is by design.

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