Thai Xenophobia

[ColPyat]

I'd say it's less about resentment and more along the lines of how the Nazis felt about the Jews and how many Afrikaans speakers felt/feel about black South Africans. The local version is more polite, surely.

Are you being facetious or are you really equating thai society with Nazi Germany? It's not even close to being that bad. Even in some crazy alternate universe if Thailand "got out of hand" so to speak it has nothing to back it up with. Any country worth its salt could give Thailand a thump on the nose with a big military rolled up newspaper. Last time I heard Thailand was still trying to trade chickens for outdated U.S. F-16s and its 1950's era tanks displayed during the coup are a laugh for any modern army.

I don't think you got it.

Heng did not state that Thailand is going to start WW3, but that there are many Thais that feel that westerners belong to a somewhat inferior race, but are very polite about it.

And, i have to say that i have known these emotions to be about here in the "LOS".

[wintermute]

Some of these papers have also rightly or wrongly shifted the blame onto the foreign governments and to the farangs in general for what is happening in Thailand.

This is the more disturbing thing about all of this. Thailand is really upping its rhetoric towards other countries by breaching longstanding diplomatic etiquette. Its spat with Singapore is pretty ugly to say the least even though it's not all one sided it just shows you that Thailand has set a very negative standard these days. I believe this is due to having a number of senior military men running the show. They don't know anything else except authoritarian style rule, aggression, and blunt awkward policies. Unfortunately, to the rest of the world this just makes Thailand look rude, crass, and potentially dangerous if it continues with its impetuous attitude. Look at how Thailand "warned" Japan about Thaksins visit..it was almost like the Thai junta was trying to issue commands to a subordinate. I imagine a lot of regional security experts are taking notes on these new developments.

Furthermore, the paper also reported that is was the responsibility of the foreign governements to control its citizens and to 'punish' us legally for such abuses of the Thai rules.

Basically, they want our governments to follow their lead..sloppy judicial system, reduced human rights, and authoritarianism.

This of course is clear bumpkin but it does go to reveal the thinking that is going on.

It's extremely arrogant to say the least and I do believe that these comments and actions taken by this current regime will come back to hurt Thailand overall. Noone cares if you're trying to screw your own people over but when you try to screw with other countries (especially ones with vastly superior military and economic strength) then that's when it gets real serious.

[wintermute]

I don't think you got it.

Heng did not state that Thailand is going to start WW3, but that there are many Thais that feel that westerners belong to a somewhat inferior race, but are very polite about it.

And, i have to say that i have known these emotions to be about here in the "LOS".

Which is an interesting perspective to say the least considering that Thailand is well known internationally for a couple of issues considered pretty degenerate to the rest of the world. I don't see where this moral and ethnocentric high horse comes from really.

[Nikkijah]

but i must tell you all, i have never encountered it, and i say, its got a lot to do with how you approach the thai people.

Or more to the point, what you, terry57, actually notice...

[Heng]

As long as you know what it is, that's good enough.

[tropo]

I'm with Terry on this one.It's not Xenophbia it's pure bloody elitist RACISM.Oh I forgot that there are no prostitutes,there is no racism,no AIDS,no corruption and no coloured peopled in Thailand either.If an African American and a Caucasian were going for the same position who would get it? Of course if you have truckloads of cash nobody cares....TIT.

I was in the busiest gold shop on Yaowarat Road back in November. After I'd waited quite a while I managed to get to the counter and was attended to in a rather half-hearted fashion. After showing me one ring, he totally ignored me and served the Thai next to me. These guys were not desperate for business as they obviously were already making a fortune, so their true colours surfaced.

[SanukJoe]

but i must tell you all, i have never encountered it, and i say, its got a lot to do with how you approach the thai people.

How well said Terry!

Look at the way farangs on TV insult and abuse Thailand and thai people/government. The way farangs behave could be the cause IF something like xenophobia exists. Interesting would be to find out where it supposedly exist, Pattaya? BKK?

It certainly does not exist in my area

Joe

[chuchok]

but i must tell you all, i have never encountered it, and i say, its got a lot to do with how you approach the thai people.

How well said Terry!

Look at the way farangs on TV insult and abuse Thailand and thai people/government. The way farangs behave could be the cause IF something like xenophobia exists. Interesting would be to find out where it supposedly exist, Pattaya? BKK?

It certainly does not exist in my area

Joe

suggest you look at this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1098313

and Hengs post above.He is Thai and normally hits the nail on the head.

[SanukJoe]

but i must tell you all, i have never encountered it, and i say, its got a lot to do with how you approach the thai people.

How well said Terry!

Look at the way farangs on TV insult and abuse Thailand and thai people/government. The way farangs behave could be the cause IF something like xenophobia exists. Interesting would be to find out where it supposedly exist, Pattaya? BKK?

It certainly does not exist in my area

Joe

suggest you look at this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1098313

and Hengs post above.He is Thai and normally hits the nail on the head.

I read his post before. He has NO clue about german people during nazi time, he has NO clue about south africa where the original people are the blacks ( so how can you want a south africa without blacks? bullocks). He is right about preferences. But how preferences develop? Bu negative experiences. So if some thai people have negative experiences with farangs they would tend to become xenophobic. Normal in my opinion. If farangs don't behave/misbehave, why would thai people love them? If foreign people irritate me I also think: go home!

Joe

[Acquiesce]

I wonder if many people read the Thailand forums that are in Thai language, maybe if they did they would get a better idea of how many Thai people realy feel about them.

BTW here is a snipit from a Thai writer on the Bangkok Post forum.

QUOTE "I just wanted to add some comments regarding the Interracial marriage in Thailand. I just think that the Asian socieity in general is kowtowing too much to the West. I happen to be a 2nd generation Chinese who was born in Thailand and I have gone through quite a bit of racism in Thailand myself. There was a period where I wanted to fit into the Thai society so badly that I refused to speak my Tachoew dialect with my parents.

It was only later then when I realised that I can never be like the Thais that I started to appreciate the true me.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that many Thais right now are not proud of what they have and so that's why many of them marry Westerners. What can I say? It's really appalling to see a young Thai girl who doesn't know a word of English going out with an old Farang just to escape from her culture.

Don't tell me that it's true love, give me a break. How can it be true love when the communication is not there?!

I should also add that this doesn't just happen in Thailand, it's happening everywhere. I have a Chinese friend of mine who would rather date an ugly, fat white man who is a cook than a normal Chinese guy who has a bright future ahead of him. It is just so sad for the Asian men that the good looking girls are going out with ugly fat and nasty white men. I just don't understand why we don't stick together and help each other out?!

It all comes down to just the fact that we, Asians, are not proud of who we are and the society is pushing towards the fact that being white is equivalent to being superior. It's sad but I am sure that as time goes by and when Asian countries are doing as well as the Western world, we will embrace our race and cultures more.

I am very conservative (and I am only 24). I believe in sticking with your own race and I always wonder where is the connection when I see an interracial couple, especially if they don't speak the same language.

Look around and see that the majority of the interracial couples are mainly old, fat, and nasty white men with OK-looking Asian girls. It wouldn't aggrevate me at all if the Asian girl was also ugly, fat, and nasty looking.

So that's my story and I am sticking to it. Send me an e-mail if you have any comments or concerns."

Edited January 23, 2007 by Acquiesce

[SanukJoe]

I wonder if many people read the Thailand forums that are in Thai language, maybe if they did they would get a better idea of how many Thai people realy feel about them.

BTW here is a snipit from a Thai writer on the Bangkok Post forum.

QUOTE "I just wanted to add some comments regarding the Interracial marriage in Thailand. I just think that the Asian socieity in general is kowtowing too much to the West. I happen to be a 2nd generation Chinese who was born in Thailand and I have gone through quite a bit of racism in Thailand myself. There was a period where I wanted to fit into the Thai society so badly that I refused to speak my Tachoew dialect with my parents.

It was only later then when I realised that I can never be like the Thais that I started to appreciate the true me.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that many Thais right now are not proud of what they have and so that's why many of them marry Westerners. What can I say? It's really appalling to see a young Thai girl who doesn't know a word of English going out with an old Farang just to escape from her culture.

Don't tell me that it's true love, give me a break. How can it be true love when the communication is not there?!

I should also add that this doesn't just happen in Thailand, it's happening everywhere. I have a Chinese friend of mine who would rather date an ugly, fat white man who is a cook than a normal Chinese guy who has a bright future ahead of him. It is just so sad for the Asian men that the good looking girls are going out with ugly fat and nasty white men. I just don't understand why we don't stick together and help each other out?!

It all comes down to just the fact that we, Asians, are not proud of who we are and the society is pushing towards the fact that being white is equivalent to being superior. It's sad but I am sure that as time goes by and when Asian countries are doing as well as the Western world, we will embrace our race and cultures more.

I am very conservative (and I am only 24). I believe in sticking with your own race and I always wonder where is the connection when I see an interracial couple, especially if they don't speak the same language.

Look around and see that the majority of the interracial couples are mainly old, fat, and nasty white men with OK-looking Asian girls. It wouldn't aggrevate me at all if the Asian girl was also ugly, fat, and nasty looking.

So that's my story and I am sticking to it. Send me an e-mail if you have any comments or concerns."

What does it add and what does it say?

A poor chinese bloke who doesn't understand that interracial is not always (I would say not regularly) old ugly farang with cute thai. In reality this guy has a big problem: China's policy to have more male children than female has caused a huge majority of men, causing crimes towards women and men who will never marry. He wants to stick to his own race? Fine, lets go for it. He won't be happy, as even chinese women tend to go for "western" men. Maybe it has to do what Terry said before: it depends how you approach people. Western men tend to respect a woman and that is quite new for a lot of asian women!

Joe

[TAWP]

I find it amasing that terry57, a person that doesn't live here, knows so much about the place... or atleast he has opinions on how we should feel about it or interprete reality.

If you want to know if there is any xenofobia (or rascism), just ask your wife/girlfriend/last bargirl - more times then not they will answer honestly if you atleast ask about another color/location-group then yourself.

And yes, many thai's I've meet say they don't like colored people for instance...

[SanukJoe]

I find it amasing that terry57, a person that doesn't live here, knows so much about the place... or atleast he has opinions on how we should feel about it or interprete reality.

If you want to know if there is any xenofobia (or rascism), just ask your wife/girlfriend/last bargirl - more times then not they will answer honestly if you atleast ask about another color/location-group then yourself.

And yes, many thai's I've meet say they don't like colored people for instance...

You don't have to live in a place to know about it!

You ask your BKK bargirl about Isaan women, she will tell you bad things. If you ask your bargirl about blacks she will tell you bad things. Why? You ever realised that thai women are "forced" to have as much a light skin as possible? I've never seen so many "lighting" products as in Thailand, it's dominated by thai men who prefer a light skin. It has nothing to do with xenophobia, it's to do with dark skin. My wife, who has dark skin for a thai, many times asked me if I don't mind. I told her that people in Europe pay a lot of money to get a darker skin!

To close up: I asked my wife and many others: no xenophobia!

Joe

[Acquiesce]

To close up: I asked my wife and many others: no xenophobia!

Joe

That was a joke, right? You should be on stage Joe.

Come back and tell us if you still believe that after you have lived here for five or ten years, i bet you change your opinion.

[chuchok]

but i must tell you all, i have never encountered it, and i say, its got a lot to do with how you approach the thai people.

How well said Terry!

Look at the way farangs on TV insult and abuse Thailand and thai people/government. The way farangs behave could be the cause IF something like xenophobia exists. Interesting would be to find out where it supposedly exist, Pattaya? BKK?

It certainly does not exist in my area

Joe

suggest you look at this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1098313

and Hengs post above.He is Thai and normally hits the nail on the head.

I read his post before. He has NO clue about german people during nazi time, he has NO clue about south africa where the original people are the blacks ( so how can you want a south africa without blacks? bullocks). He is right about preferences. But how preferences develop? Bu negative experiences. So if some thai people have negative experiences with farangs they would tend to become xenophobic. Normal in my opinion. If farangs don't behave/misbehave, why would thai people love them? If foreign people irritate me I also think: go home!

Joe

joe,you should have read hengs post properly.He followed up with this..

I'm saying it's about simple preference. It has less to do with the object of one's dislike... and more to do with oneself. Many Nazis preferred a Germany without Jews, many South Africans prefered a South Africa without blacks, many Thais prefer to have foreigners jumping through hoops. Losing a World War, getting rid of apartheid, or lower tourist revenues wink.gif does very little to change people's preferences.

Did you read the link above as well?love to hear your comments on that one then.

In the villages (As has been stated here already) there is not so much xenophobia.

As for the Whits skin thing,that is an Asian thing and is not just Thai.Opposite to what europeans are like.Who is right?

Edited January 23, 2007 by chuchok

[Ijustwannateach]

Interesting thread with a lot of great stuff- Guesthouse, great post. It falls in line with something an acquaintance of mine who has lived here for years said after he was recently physically attacked after getting into an argument: years ago Thais wouldn't have dared to attack a foreigner; now they will- some will even look for excuses to do so.

It's really the anti-egalitarian (it's too violent here simply to call it inegalitarian) streak that does it, isn't it? When your whole society is built around a principle of inequality- for no two Thais are ever truly equal, are they?- then you start to look for reasons to put more people "under" you for the sake of your self-esteem, especially if your "self" is located more in your status/face and less in your conscience, as it often is in Asia. Visual differences are easy to spot, therefore the ease with which anti-egalitarian societies adopt racism of various sorts. It's especially helpful in rationalising extreme social injustices in those societies; for example, the attitude which an heiree must put on to avoid seeing how undeserved and obscene his family's wealth is compared to the situation of an uneducated country family which never had any advantages (including any real education). Why, he must be socially and therefore genetically superior! Moving futher "down" the scale, Thais with little status and face can regard themselves as superior by sheer "Thainess" when compared to foreigners, who can themselves be classified in various arcane ways. I agree that "Thai Rak Thai" was no help in this kind of matter.

In general, European society/the English-speaking world are no longer as breathtakingly and shamelessly racist as most of the insular Asian societies I have encountered recently. In Japan, HIV is the "foreigners' disease" and actors still use blackface- other Asians are scorned and if possible until recently have hidden their family heritage and changed their names to escape the stigma. In Malaysia, the Malays call themselves "Bumiputra" (children of Earth?) and have pro-racist government policies. In Thailand, I had to stop talking to some of my Thai friends about my Burmese or Lao friends because they were so irrationally negative on the subject. I've had to reassure friends over and over that being "dark" was not an acceptable reason for them to feel bad about their appearance, and I get very angry when I see someone with so little self-esteem that they damage themselves with "whitening" cosmetic poisons.

Of course, money helps- but it's not everything. I'm pretty sure that even if I became much poorer than I am now (as I once was), my best Thai friends would be with me then as they were before. It's all about people being able to see you as an individual rather than a "type"- that it to say, a stereotype.

Regarding the silly letter quoted above, the whole anti-farang shtick that many of these more unpleasant Sino-Thais put on seems to be simply an unconscious co-opting of Thai culture- which is ironic, since most of the same Sino-Thais would consciously label the "Thai-Thais" as inferior to themselves. They want to be on top, so they put foreigners on the bottom as a "type." Resentment about their lack of representation in Western culture (while at the same time lusting after it) helps this tendency, as does a basic jealousy. Notice how the writer quoted above projects his own anger and inadequacy through the repeated pejoratives against "all" foreigners dating Sino-Thais as "old, fat, nasty, ugly." Notice how he would rather question the sanity of his friends who date foreigners rather than question why they might find them somehow preferable to, say, himself- could it be personality, perhaps? Obviously his friends are not as racist as himself!

I haven't noticed these tendencies in many ethnic Chinese living in other places I have been, so I must assume it's the influence of the Thai culture here on them that does it; either that or a particularly unpleasant background culture among the particular group of Chinese that has arrived here. I think the former explanation is more likely, which just goes to show that the Thai-based thinking can make other groups even more racist than they were before, if they aren't careful. I even have to remind myself sometimes how much I used to like Chinese people in other countries.

I think Thailand is going through a time of many transitions, culturally as well as politically, and democracy is not only a political concept but also a social one. Many mistakes will be made, and innocent people (including some of us) will be part of the collateral damage at times.

"Steven"

[SanukJoe]

Interesting thread with a lot of great stuff- Guesthouse, great post. It falls in line with something an acquaintance of mine who has lived here for years said after he was recently physically attacked after getting into an argument: years ago Thais wouldn't have dared to attack a foreigner; now they will- some will even look for excuses to do so.

It's really the anti-egalitarian (it's too violent here simply to call it inegalitarian) streak that does it, isn't it? When your whole society is built around a principle of inequality- for no two Thais are ever truly equal, are they?- then you start to look for reasons to put more people "under" you for the sake of your self-esteem, especially if your "self" is located more in your status/face and less in your conscience, as it often is in Asia. Visual differences are easy to spot, therefore the ease with which anti-egalitarian societies adopt racism of various sorts. It's especially helpful in rationalising extreme social injustices in those societies; for example, the attitude which an heiree must put on to avoid seeing how undeserved and obscene his family's wealth is compared to the situation of an uneducated country family which never had any advantages (including any real education). Why, he must be socially and therefore genetically superior! Moving futher "down" the scale, Thais with little status and face can regard themselves as superior by sheer "Thainess" when compared to foreigners, who can themselves be classified in various arcane ways. I agree that "Thai Rak Thai" was no help in this kind of matter.

In general, European society/the English-speaking world are no longer as breathtakingly and shamelessly racist as most of the insular Asian societies I have encountered recently. In Japan, HIV is the "foreigners' disease" and actors still use blackface- other Asians are scorned and if possible until recently have hidden their family heritage and changed their names to escape the stigma. In Malaysia, the Malays call themselves "Bumiputra" (children of Earth?) and have pro-racist government policies. In Thailand, I had to stop talking to some of my Thai friends about my Burmese or Lao friends because they were so irrationally negative on the subject. I've had to reassure friends over and over that being "dark" was not an acceptable reason for them to feel bad about their appearance, and I get very angry when I see someone with so little self-esteem that they damage themselves with "whitening" cosmetic poisons.

Of course, money helps- but it's not everything. I'm pretty sure that even if I became much poorer than I am now (as I once was), my best Thai friends would be with me then as they were before. It's all about people being able to see you as an individual rather than a "type"- that it to say, a stereotype.

Regarding the silly letter quoted above, the whole anti-farang shtick that many of these more unpleasant Sino-Thais put on seems to be simply an unconscious co-opting of Thai culture- which is ironic, since most of the same Sino-Thais would consciously label the "Thai-Thais" as inferior to themselves. They want to be on top, so they put foreigners on the bottom as a "type." Resentment about their lack of representation in Western culture (while at the same time lusting after it) helps this tendency, as does a basic jealousy. Notice how the writer quoted above projects his own anger and inadequacy through the repeated pejoratives against "all" foreigners dating Sino-Thais as "old, fat, nasty, ugly." Notice how he would rather question the sanity of his friends who date foreigners rather than question why they might find them somehow preferable to, say, himself- could it be personality, perhaps? Obviously his friends are not as racist as himself!

I haven't noticed these tendencies in many ethnic Chinese living in other places I have been, so I must assume it's the influence of the Thai culture here on them that does it; either that or a particularly unpleasant background culture among the particular group of Chinese that has arrived here. I think the former explanation is more likely, which just goes to show that the Thai-based thinking can make other groups even more racist than they were before, if they aren't careful. I even have to remind myself sometimes how much I used to like Chinese people in other countries.

I think Thailand is going through a time of many transitions, culturally as well as politically, and democracy is not only a political concept but also a social one. Many mistakes will be made, and innocent people (including some of us) will be part of the collateral damage at times.

"Steven"

Very well noticed, same same here!

Joe

[SanukJoe]

To close up: I asked my wife and many others: no xenophobia!

Joe

That was a joke, right? You should be on stage Joe.

Come back and tell us if you still believe that after you have lived here for five or ten years, i bet you change your opinion.

No joke mate. I have been in Thailand for the last 5 years and I'm learning fast. I talk to people, ask them, try to find about their thinking. Hey, I don't mean bar talk ok?

I will not change my opinion as it is based on many questions and answers.

Cheers

Joe

[SanukJoe]

but i must tell you all, i have never encountered it, and i say, its got a lot to do with how you approach the thai people.

How well said Terry!

Look at the way farangs on TV insult and abuse Thailand and thai people/government. The way farangs behave could be the cause IF something like xenophobia exists. Interesting would be to find out where it supposedly exist, Pattaya? BKK?

It certainly does not exist in my area

Joe

suggest you look at this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1098313

and Hengs post above.He is Thai and normally hits the nail on the head.

I read his post before. He has NO clue about german people during nazi time, he has NO clue about south africa where the original people are the blacks ( so how can you want a south africa without blacks? bullocks). He is right about preferences. But how preferences develop? Bu negative experiences. So if some thai people have negative experiences with farangs they would tend to become xenophobic. Normal in my opinion. If farangs don't behave/misbehave, why would thai people love them? If foreign people irritate me I also think: go home!

Joe

joe,you should have read hengs post properly.He followed up with this..

sorry Chuchok, he did mention this:

Many Nazis preferred a Germany without Jews, many South Africans prefered a South Africa without blacks,

I gave my comments on it as he has no clue.

I'm saying it's about simple preference. It has less to do with the object of one's dislike... and more to do with oneself. Many Nazis preferred a Germany without Jews, many South Africans prefered a South Africa without blacks, many Thais prefer to have foreigners jumping through hoops. Losing a World War, getting rid of apartheid, or lower tourist revenues wink.gif does very little to change people's preferences.

Did you read the link above as well?love to hear your comments on that one then.

In the villages (As has been stated here already) there is not so much xenophobia.

As for the Whits skin thing,that is an Asian thing and is not just Thai.Opposite to what europeans are like.Who is right?

Who said it's thai? I just said it generates discrimination, as the lighter the better, BS in my opinion. No one is right.

Joe

[chuchok]

To close up: I asked my wife and many others: no xenophobia!

Joe

That was a joke, right? You should be on stage Joe.

Come back and tell us if you still believe that after you have lived here for five or ten years, i bet you change your opinion.

No joke mate. I have been in Thailand for the last 5 years and I'm learning fast. I talk to people, ask them, try to find about their thinking. Hey, I don't mean bar talk ok?

I will not change my opinion as it is based on many questions and answers.

Cheers

Joe

Well Joe,why don't you read all of "stevens" post as well as Casanundra Heng (Thai) Mobi D'Ark

and steveromagnino (part Thai..I think) and Guesthouse.

That is definatly not 'bar' talk.(dunno where that came from??) These guys have been here for quite some time.They are normally quite astute.

[Acquiesce]

Ignorance is bliss chuchok, ignorance is bliss.

[SanukJoe]

To close up: I asked my wife and many others: no xenophobia!

Joe

That was a joke, right? You should be on stage Joe.

Come back and tell us if you still believe that after you have lived here for five or ten years, i bet you change your opinion.

No joke mate. I have been in Thailand for the last 5 years and I'm learning fast. I talk to people, ask them, try to find about their thinking. Hey, I don't mean bar talk ok?

I will not change my opinion as it is based on many questions and answers.

Cheers

Joe

Well Joe,why don't you read all of "stevens" post as well as Casanundra Heng (Thai) Mobi D'Ark

and steveromagnino (part Thai..I think) and Guesthouse.

That is definatly not 'bar' talk.(dunno where that came from??) These guys have been here for quite some time.They are normally quite astute.

Chuchok, I have a tendency to react on what I read, ok?

The post you and others referred to (Hengs) is what I reacted on and I stick to it, the facts he is stating are wrong, believe me. No matter he is thai or whatever, he is plain wrong on assuming that.

Guys that have been in Thailand for longer time: does that prove they know about it? Does it prove they learned a lot? No, it does not! It only proves they have been here longer time, so what? A guy who is hungry to learn can catch up more in 6 months than others in 2 years, got me?

I tell you what I think, based on what I know. About Germany and South africa I'm very sure, about xenophobia in Thailand I'm not sure but I know of the area me and my family live. I also asked, funny there was no reaction, if there are local/regional differences in having xenophobia. If I was a Thai living in Pattaya I would be xenophobic, for sure. So again it's a matter of where you live. As stated in villages it is less, well, I live in a very tiny little village and I tell you again: no xenophobia!

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Ignorance is bliss chuchok, ignorance is bliss.

I just read your profile, the only thing you mentioned is "male" further no information........ a nono?

[chuchok]

Chuchok, I have a tendency to react on what I read, ok?

The post you and others referred to (Hengs) is what I reacted on and I stick to it, the facts he is stating are wrong, believe me. No matter he is thai or whatever, he is plain wrong on assuming that.

Guys that have been in Thailand for longer time: does that prove they know about it? Does it prove they learned a lot? No, it does not! It only proves they have been here longer time, so what? A guy who is hungry to learn can catch up more in 6 months than others in 2 years, got me?

I tell you what I think, based on what I know. About Germany and South africa I'm very sure, about xenophobia in Thailand I'm not sure but I know of the area me and my family live. I also asked, funny there was no reaction, if there are local/regional differences in having xenophobia. If I was a Thai living in Pattaya I would be xenophobic, for sure. So again it's a matter of where you live. As stated in villages it is less, well, I live in a very tiny little village and I tell you again: no xenophobia!

Joe

Joe,It has already been stated that vthe majority of xenophobia comes from the ruling classes.

Many,many Thais will deny being xenophobic.

most of Asia is xenophobic.Japan being the worst IMO,with the Thais a close second.

[SanukJoe]

Chuchok, I have a tendency to react on what I read, ok?

The post you and others referred to (Hengs) is what I reacted on and I stick to it, the facts he is stating are wrong, believe me. No matter he is thai or whatever, he is plain wrong on assuming that.

Guys that have been in Thailand for longer time: does that prove they know about it? Does it prove they learned a lot? No, it does not! It only proves they have been here longer time, so what? A guy who is hungry to learn can catch up more in 6 months than others in 2 years, got me?

I tell you what I think, based on what I know. About Germany and South africa I'm very sure, about xenophobia in Thailand I'm not sure but I know of the area me and my family live. I also asked, funny there was no reaction, if there are local/regional differences in having xenophobia. If I was a Thai living in Pattaya I would be xenophobic, for sure. So again it's a matter of where you live. As stated in villages it is less, well, I live in a very tiny little village and I tell you again: no xenophobia!

Joe

Joe,It has already been stated that vthe majority of xenophobia comes from the ruling classes.

Many,many Thais will deny being xenophobic.

most of Asia is xenophobic.Japan being the worst IMO,with the Thais a close second.

I can follow you now Chuchok, as ruling classes mostly mean big city people. So it confirms what I thought already: xenophobia exists in big cities like BKK and maybe/probably in areas with high farang presence, or even more accurate, the combiantion of the two. I cannot imagine (but that's not based on facts) that the second largest city of Thailand, Udon thani, has this problem, as there are not many farangs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Joe

[chuchok]

I can follow you now Chuchok, as ruling classes mostly mean big city people. So it confirms what I thought already: xenophobia exists in big cities like BKK and maybe/probably in areas with high farang presence, or even more accurate, the combiantion of the two. I cannot imagine (but that's not based on facts) that the second largest city of Thailand, Udon thani, has this problem, as there are not many farangs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Joe

This

I have just read this whole thread from top to bottom and am mildly amused.

Being a resident here working with the educated upper classes on a daily basis (even some who are on the new consitution committee) I can confirm that there are some very protectionistic views about keeping Thailand away from the foreign devils being made on a daily basis in the higher circles of Thai society and most of them are being said with me in the meeting listening in as well... they have no shame. I also get to read some of the new government proposlas before they become public and some of them coming out in recent weeks have been handed back with suggestions that they may be a little too harsh towards foreigners in general and could be toned down abit. Some of these papers have also rightly or wrongly shifted the blame onto the foreign governments and to the farangs in general for what is happening in Thailand.....

and this boomer..

When I first moved to Thailand, almost twenty years ago, I would say that the general reception of foreigners was almost wholly positive. I have to measure that against the fact that I, and the other foreigners I was working with, were given a number of privileges that came with being employees of a multinational. At that time there were extremely few expats living in Thailand outside those working for multinationals.

So rarity of foreigners actually living in Thailand has to be considered.

However, it was not all good news. The company I work for have in place extremely stringent anti discrimination policies, our policies are the same across all our offices. They need to be since we move employees globally.

This brought about my first encounter of Thai Xenophobia. We had an incident of Thais refusing to work with an Indian member of staff who had been assigned to our Thailand office.

The company response was to add 'Anti Discrimination Practices' to our cross cultural training.

It was clear we needed it, when the issue of 'You are required to work with whoever is assigned to your team regardless of race, religion, gender or age' was raised, we had a group of Thais ranting 'This is Thailand we do Thai way'.

Clearly, the cover they took for their bigotry was to hide their beliefs in 'Thainess'.

Well you take the company money you take the company rules. One of these ranters, was dismissed less than six months for distributing racist cartoons in the office.

But it's not just in the office, sitting on a Bht bus one evening I overheard the driver ask the driver of the bus next to him 'how was he doing for passengers?" - 'Two Thai people and one farang animal was his reply' (If you speak Thai, you'll know the classifier he used and it's implications).

Those are cases, of what I would regard as background racism and xenophobia. I would not regard them as noteworthy beyond that they are an indication of how things where.

Things have got worse.

There was a marked shift in Thai attitudes to foreigners during the financial crisis of the mid 90s. Foreign speculators and foreigners in general where made the scapegoats for the collapse of the Thai economy. The ensuing collapse of work and income for Thais created ill feeling, I experienced this and I know of many others that did too. Perhaps we can understand this, I don't say excuse it, but at least accept that it arose out of extraordinary conditions.

What is not excusable is the use Thaksin made of this atmosphere of increasing dislike of foreigners. He and his Thai Rak Thai party used fear of foreigners as a means to gain political control. Thai Rak Thai played on the growing Xenophobia and racism.

The consequences of that were regularly discussed here on TV.

What where those consequences. Well for one there has been a raft of laws that preclude foreigners from gaining any more rights in Thailand and there has been an increase of animosity towards foreigners.

Back when I first came to Thailand I almost never heard of Thais attacking foreigners, or rather it was such a rare occasion that when it did occur it made the BK Post. The same cannot be said now, attacks of foreigners are common place.

I've not suffered such an attack, I know others who have, but as a Thai speaker I am absolutely aware of the change in the way Thais speak about foreigners.

Yes we can argue that the quality of foreigners turning up in Thailand has dropped and yes that would have an impact on Thai attitudes. But I think it is more than that, post after post on TV and else where asks 'where has the Thai smile gone' or some other reference to Thais no longer being as friendly as they once where.

To deny this is to deny repeated reports from many quarters while to suggest that xenophobia does not exist in Thailand is just plain silly (or out of touch with reality).

My firm belief is that there is an increase in Thai racism and xenophobia and that the reasons for the increase is the use the Thai Rak Thai made of nationalism and xenophobia for the political ends of Thaksin and his henchmen.

I might add, to imbibe the Thais with some super human quality of not being possessed of the self same faults as the rest of humanity is nothing more than the flip side of the racism coin – The intellectual failing is the same, to attribute qualities (negative or otherwise) on the basis of race. It’s the kind of feeble thinking that comes from a lack of real knowledge and experience of Thailand, its people and culture.

I dunno about areas etc,but the more the ruling classes spread their crap,the more the Thai people will go along with it.

[ColPyat]

about xenophobia in Thailand I'm not sure but I know of the area me and my family live.

In my wifes village, surrounded by her family and clan i do not face any racism. An outsider living there without being part of the clan would never show openly any racist feelings towards me as he would face severe difficulties. That though does not say anyting other than that my wife's clan, poor as they are, are very secure in their identity and feel not threatened by my different race, and don't really have any thoughts on this.

My wife and me had to correct though once a while our nieces and neviews when they came with some comments about farang home from school that they did not understand and were not exactly flattering towards farang.

That does not mean anything though, other than that i have been accepted by my family here.

My spectrum of socialising is very wide though through work. And i have encountered many openly racist comments and attitudes, from taxi drivers up to well known politicians and business men. And obviously, needles to say, the majority of people i meet are not that way inclined, or at least they do not show it openly.

I wonder though if you speak Thai, and can understand speaches of politicians, or TV shows, where you can often hear blatantly xenophobic statements. Or, as much as i enjoy Thai comedies in the cafes, i do not enjoy sitting in the first tables, because i will definately be the target of some not so nice jokes in terms of racial stereotyping, at least until i can give them return comments, and they lose interest.

[Jimjim]

Joe,It has already been stated that vthe majority of xenophobia comes from the ruling classes.

Many,many Thais will deny being xenophobic.

most of Asia is xenophobic.Japan being the worst IMO,with the Thais a close second.

I'd have to strongly disagree with you there. Koreans are much more xenophobic and racist than Thais. Just about no Korean family, whatever their class, wants their daughter to marry a non-Korean. I think you find much more acceptance among Thais than Koreans in this particular example.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Jimjim

[alexth]

I think that also education has something to do with the thais being xenophobic, uneducated people can easily lead to idiotic thinkings and since the level of education in Thailand is so low...well, here we go. I feel the xenophobia around me, everywhere I go, no matter. Who thinks it doesn't exist...well, he/she hangs out in strange places (bars, a-go-go's. massage parlours) or strictly touristic venues. It took me about 2 or 3 months of actually living here and felt sad about it, I cheered up after applying for university, the people there are more friendly but still...xenophobia and racism is everywhere in Thailand, it's one of the reasons I'm leaving soon...

[Jet Gorgon]

This thread has it all: the good, the bad and the ugly.

I tended to veer to the not xenophobic side yesterday. Then I started thinking about it.

I do know that teachers in our local school tell the kids that farang are dirty and not as good as Thais.

I have received terrible or rude service here, but usually put it down to belligerent foreigners who came before me.

When all is going well, my villagers are kind and helpful, but one mishap (like my dog biting a Thai man who came into my yard and then gave me a Bt3,000 bill for rabies shots), and they all run and hide. Only one told me not to make a fuss and just pay because the man's family was big in the village.

But, the villagers all took turns staying with a farang friend hospitalised after a bike accident.

I try to be respectful and quiet, visit people in hospital, attend funerals, etc. But am I really accepted? In the end, I believe not.

I guess the best test would be whether your Thai neighbours/friends would come to your rescue if you were accused of a major crime. Would they shun you even if the charges were false? But, would friends help you if you were back home?

Far Eastern Economic Review did a survey on racism/xenophobia in Asia several years ago. (Help me out here, FEER readers.) Questions included would you allow your daughter/son to marry a foreigner? Would you work for a foreign company? Thailand was definitely ranked in the top three if not the most xenophobic nation. (Tried to research this, but could not find the story.)

Xenophobic or not, I love Thai people. Those who moved to a different village will stop in to see me even a year later if they are within 10km of my home. Neighbours act as silent security, message carriers, and surprise food suppliers. Those who know my face always call out my name and ask how I am when I pass by. A few of those a day and I'm a happy camper.