Thai Xenophobia

[ColPyat]

i dont live here but busting a leg to get here full time and have been coming to los for the last 20 years 3 times a year.

i have never noticed it.

lets get this narrowed down then,

so is the question aimed at the white farang or is the question in general.

let me know what i need to answer too.

thanks.

Sorry, but i hope for you that you will keep not noticing the rising xeonophobia here once you come to live full time in Thailand. Maybe it's a language issue, as mostly xenophobia is not really in your face here, as not much is in Thailand, but expressed in the here typical subtleties that can be extremely insulting nevertheless if you understand the code.

Regularly encountered certain persistent questions and assumptions about your private affairs regarding your Thai wife, what your Thai wife's former profession might have been in their eyes as no Thai women not of that vocation would ever think of living with a foreigner, or the number of wifes you as a foreigner definately must have is a behavior that people here would never dare to insist upon with a fellow Thai who is not a very closed friend, who might do that in a jokingly matter, but only to a certain degree.

Away from toursit areas, and under themselves Thais are extremely formal people to strangers, and asking certain personal questions is a definate cultural tabu, which increasingly though does not hinder many to change their behavioral pattern when encountering foreigners.

These questions about your personal affairs might sound perfectly innocent curiosity, and often are so, but on many occasions they are not. You will understand that by the choice of words, and the general tone that is more aimed at taking the piss and reconfirming the stereotype of farang being a combination of rich, daft and completely oversexed, and simply not intelligent enough to ever understand Thai cultural nuances.

So far, the extremely ugly violent xenophobia is rarely encountered here, but i fear that in the not too distant future Thailand will catch up there as well with the rest of the world.

And paired with clearly disadvantageous legislations, and by this government more so than the last one even, this is slightly concerning.

My mind was almost changed about you ColPyat, when you have to go and spoil a reasonable post by adding a silly last sentence!!!

Just because it's sold to you in a nicer package does not mean that it is not so.

Thaksin was rash, but over all he was a pragmatic. He was a populist, and talked to the particular audiences what they wanted to hear, and did what he wanted to in the end. Present government is ideologicaly inspired (Gen. Sonthi has openly said so), and large part of that ideology is "patriotism".

Well, trying to bring this debate away from personal experiences, since the '97 crash extreme right wing organisations with a more than dark history such as Look Sueah Chao Ban (Village Scouts) are for the first time since the end of the communist insurgency on the rise again, very popular publications such as the in 2005 published book 'Royal Power' by Pramuan Rujanaseri that do spread very open blood and earth patriotism bordering on blatant racism (read Thongchai Winitchakul's criticism).

There is very public and open xenophobia on the rise here, and with very little criticism or even debate evident.

[Mobi]

Just because it's sold to you in a nicer package does not mean that it is not so.

Thaksin was rash, but over all he was a pragmatic. He was a populist, and talked to the particular audiences what they wanted to hear, and did what he wanted to in the end. Present government is ideologicaly inspired (Gen. Sonthi has openly said so), and large part of that ideology is "patriotism".

Well, trying to bring this debate away from personal experiences, since the '97 crash extreme right wing organisations with a more than dark history such as Look Sueah Chao Ban (Village Scouts) are for the first time since the end of the communist insurgency on the rise again, very popular publications such as the in 2005 published book 'Royal Power' by Pramuan Rujanaseri that do spread very open blood and earth patriotism bordering on blatant racism (read Thongchai Winitchakul's criticism).

There is very public and open xenophobia on the rise here, and with very little criticism or even debate evident.

Nobody hated Thaksin and all he stood for more than me.

But on this point I agree with you 100%

Things from a foreigners' point of view are definitely getting worse under the current regime.

[Jet Gorgon]

It's also not just a Thai-falang issue. It has long been Thai vs. anyone not Thai (long before any falangs were on the scene).

So true, my partner is Vietnamese, she lived her first few years in Nong Khai and was hated because of her Vietnamese appearance, she later moved to BKK and blended in without people knowing/caring where she came from but whenever she visited Nong Khai again to see family or friends she was taunted in the village 'ee gaew' and 'ee yuan' - not particularly nice terms!

Just my 2 satangs.

Very true, and I am sorry your wife faced this ostracism. This racism is way different from what western farang face, and it is much more cutting. Good to hear you moved and it's better now.

This post is getting repetitive except for your post.

[Bananaman]

It's also not just a Thai-falang issue. It has long been Thai vs. anyone not Thai (long before any falangs were on the scene).

So true, my partner is Vietnamese, she lived her first few years in Nong Khai and was hated because of her Vietnamese appearance, she later moved to BKK and blended in without people knowing/caring where she came from but whenever she visited Nong Khai again to see family or friends she was taunted in the village 'ee gaew' and 'ee yuan' - not particularly nice terms!

Just my 2 satangs.

Very true, and I am sorry your wife faced this ostracism. This racism is way different from what western farang face, and it is much more cutting. Good to hear you moved and it's better now.

This post is getting repetitive except for your post.

I agree, steveromagnino reckons I'm a bit of a comedian so maybe I should liven things up with a few jokes. "An Englishman, an Irishman, a Scotsman and a Thai were sitting on a plane...."

[Acquiesce]

i see people defending xenophobia in Thailand like it is acceptable or something. There is no doubt that Thailand is very homogenous, but that it no excuse in my opinion. the world is globalized enough to the point where people should know the proper way to treat other people and not hide behind the fact that one's culture is different, so it's ok to discriminate or even worse, fail to acknowledge a problem at all. and i'm not saying that other counries are perfect either because that is far from the truth, but this forum is about Thailand and thats the reason Thailand is being discused.

I'd just like to know why some people think it is acceptable for Thailand to remain xenophobic. in my opinion, it's a choice, not a mere circumstance.

what is more important, preserving an ancient society at the cost of racial equality, or striving toward equal rights no matter what the consequence? sounds like it'd be a no-brainer, but some of you may be surprised.

[jumnien]

I don't think whether I believe in racial equality or not is important, or whether I believe in democracy or military dictatorship is important. In the end, Thailand is exactly the way Thailand is supposed to be at this moment and I can either be thrilled to be here (as I am when i am spiritually centered) or I can leave or I can stay and be miserable, the choice is mine to make, not Thailand's. I can easily identify character defects or obstacles that I personally need to strive to overcome. But as to where Thailand should be headed, or really even where it is at the moment, only my own grandiosity could lead me to even consider it. There is a solution, there is a path...

[Mid]

NEWS FLASH ................................

What you believe is important ....................................

[terry57]

I don't think whether I believe in racial equality or not is important, or whether I believe in democracy or military dictatorship is important. In the end, Thailand is exactly the way Thailand is supposed to be at this moment and I can either be thrilled to be here (as I am when i am spiritually centered) or I can leave or I can stay and be miserable, the choice is mine to make, not Thailand's. I can easily identify character defects or obstacles that I personally need to strive to overcome. But as to where Thailand should be headed, or really even where it is at the moment, only my own grandiosity could lead me to even consider it. There is a solution, there is a path...

yes i agree.

this xenophobia business is all in the eye of the beholder.

look for it and you shall find it as surely as night follows day.

i dont look for it and have never found it.

[Jet Gorgon]

I think there is a Buddhism forum for your new spiritual comments. Om, brothers.

[toptuan]

It's also not just a Thai-falang issue. It has long been Thai vs. anyone not Thai (long before any falangs were on the scene).

What about that Greek-farang dude (Constantine Phaulkon, I believe) who worked his way up into high Siam-Thai government (Foreign Minister under King Narai) during the days of Ayuthaya a few hundred years back (1664)?

What was with that? Xenophobia-gone-awry? What a shame!

[alexth]

It's also not just a Thai-falang issue. It has long been Thai vs. anyone not Thai (long before any falangs were on the scene).

What about that Greek-farang dude (Constantine Phaulkon, I believe) who worked his way up into high Siam-Thai government (Foreign Minister under King Narai) during the days of Ayuthaya a few hundred years back (1664)?

What was with that? Xenophobia-gone-awry? What a shame!

I dare a farang to do that now, be it greek, brit, american or whatever...we had a german king in Romania about 100 years ago, I can't see that happening in the near future again. I don't what the thais opinion about this greek is (not really sure if there are more than 10% of the thais that know about it), but I sure know that romanians appreciated this german guy for what he did for the country and not for where he came from

[longway]

How can Thailand ever be rated more Xenophobic than Australia? or the USA? or Expats in Thailnd?

I believe the original post was not comparing xenophobia in Thailand to those of other countries but rather, questioning its existence in the first place and whether or not it has worsened in recent years.

I agree with GH here:

Moreover, what does it matter if racism and xenophobia exist in some place thousands of miles away from Thailand - We are not discussing other places, we are discussing life in Thailand.

the reason it matters can be summed up by the sayings

The pot calling the kettle black. (Does this make me a racist? )

Or

People who live in glasshouses shouldnt throw stones.

Also the little amtter of the people discussing xenophobia and racism in Thailand may well come from these countries.

[davidjtayler]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

[Acquiesce]

It's also not just a Thai-falang issue. It has long been Thai vs. anyone not Thai (long before any falangs were on the scene).

What about that Greek-farang dude (Constantine Phaulkon, I believe) who worked his way up into high Siam-Thai government (Foreign Minister under King Narai) during the days of Ayuthaya a few hundred years back (1664)?

What was with that? Xenophobia-gone-awry? What a shame!

Well you might also mention the fact that the British even had courts of law here in the early 1900s.

Here is a news story from The Bangkok Times December 1900.

A couple of Indian dairymen were summoned to the British Counselor Court today for allowing their cattle to stray on the paddy fields at Sala Daeng. Defendants were ordered to pay Tiscals 20, the amount of damage.

Bangkok Times December 1900

[terry57]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

[ColPyat]

the reason it matters can be summed up by the sayings

The pot calling the kettle black. (Does this make me a racist? )

Or

People who live in glasshouses shouldnt throw stones.

Also the little amtter of the people discussing xenophobia and racism in Thailand may well come from these countries.

Well, as i do not see myself as a small brainless part of the collective of my home country, i have no need to defend its more idiotic and xenophobic policies, because the dice have been thrown that i was born there and not anywhere else, i don't really see any relevance of your statement.

I dislike xenophobic policies of my place of birth not one bit less than xenophobic policies and ideas here.

At least though in my place of birth is a very open and public debate about this, while here is none.

[davidjtayler]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

[Little Black Duck]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

[terry57]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

hey duck,

i know your a bit dislexic my good mate,

but what the <deleted>.. is a manky wank ? :D

[Acquiesce]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

hey duck,

i know your a bit dislexic my good mate,

but what the <deleted>.. is a manky wank ?

Manky means dirty, and i'm sure you know what a wank is.

[terry57]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

hey duck,

i know your a bit dislexic my good mate,

but what the <deleted>.. is a manky wank ?

Manky means dirty, and i'm sure you know what a wank is.

dont make sense at all does it, as a wan-k is a lovely, clean, respectful act of self love.

ask duck, as he knows all about that subject.

[Acquiesce]

I only have posh wanks these days.

[Little Black Duck]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

hey duck,

i know your a bit dislexic my good mate,

but what the <deleted>.. is a manky wank ?

Manky means dirty, and i'm sure you know what a wank is.

dont make sense at all does it, as a wan-k is a lovely, clean, respectful act of self love.

ask duck, as he knows all about that subject.

Tut Tut Tut..Terry my Friend did the dyslexic Duck cut a little deep..

To think I could be so misconstrewed...

[davidjtayler]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

hey duck,

i know your a bit dislexic my good mate,

but what the <deleted>.. is a manky wank ?

Manky means dirty, and i'm sure you know what a wank is.

dont make sense at all does it, as a wan-k is a lovely, clean, respectful act of self love.

ask duck, as he knows all about that subject.

Tut Tut Tut..Terry my Friend did the dyslexic Duck cut a little deep..

To think I could be so misconstrewed...

But was it a xenophobic wank Master duck ....?

[Little Black Duck]

Are you guys still carping on about this unanswerable conundrum ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... oh yes it is ... oh no it isn't ... what time does the pantomime end ....?

oh,

i think it could possibly end at 20 minutes past 12 at the turn of the millinium.

only then will they all learn that i was right all along.

I'll drink a tower of fine, fresh, frothy ale to that Terry

I Mean Who gives a Manky Wank anyway ???

Proved one thing they are all either Xena phobic or Paranoid..

Break out the Coldies DJT..

hey duck,

i know your a bit dislexic my good mate,

but what the <deleted>.. is a manky wank ?

Manky means dirty, and i'm sure you know what a wank is.

dont make sense at all does it, as a wan-k is a lovely, clean, respectful act of self love.

ask duck, as he knows all about that subject.

Tut Tut Tut..Terry my Friend did the dyslexic Duck cut a little deep..

To think I could be so misconstrewed...

But was it a xenophobic wank Master duck ....?

Nah Mr DJT just a Nifty Fifty..

[tijnebijn]

Offcourse there is,all of a sudden all these changes in visafees and to get them.Tey all miking us.And do not give us even time to manage,to cope with new regulations.They should do it more moderate,especially married people and fathers under 50.........It's just getting rediculous.all of a suddenthey change their minds of how we should stay in ,wile many left their homes a not too long time ago.the longer stayers proberly cope well allready,not fair in my eyes,and lucky for the longstayers

[jumnien]

Hundreds of posts ago several posters remarked how they were insulted when Thais used "mun" or pronouns for animal when referring to farangs. One shouldn't take this so personally or hysterically. Thais refer to their own children as "little rat -noo", "male genitalia - haam", bird - nok, and "female genitalia - jiim" amongst many others. I don't think you would generalize that Thai people are particularly hateful toward their children, they just use words differently than secretaries from Manchester or plumbers from Bristol. No reason to start growling and barking back.

God bless you and good night!

[Thaddeus]

and "female genitalia - jiim"

I thought that meant 'smile' .... or am I 90 degrees and about one meter out?

[Mobi]

and "female genitalia - jiim"

I thought that meant 'smile' .... or am I 90 degrees and about one meter out?

Yes.

[ColPyat]

Hundreds of posts ago several posters remarked how they were insulted when Thais used "mun" or pronouns for animal when referring to farangs. One shouldn't take this so personally or hysterically.

It depends very much on the social occasion. If a stranger titles me "mun" while talking about me in my presence this is highly offensive, and meant to be that way. Try that with a Thai stranger, and see what the response is...

Don't forget, Thai language is very formal, especially when strangers are concerned, and very strict hirarchies have to be observed there, all expressed in verbal and non verbal communication.