quelling hunger ?

dontoearth · April 25, 2018

Just now, Justfine said:

https://www.health-calc.com/body-composition/waist-to-height-ratio

I do all of these various measurements and even an electronic scale with body composition analysis about once a month. I never depend on one measurement. I assume most pleasing plump and chubby would not do well on this measure either! I believe I read the waist measurement for men needs to be under 35" in the USA. I am under that at about 33" now but was at a 40" before. Still as I said no one in my family or circle of friends seemed to think weight loss was necessary or a good idea.

I was sick of all the metabolic medicine like HBP, etc. And not wanting the doctor to push more on me so I took matters into my own hands.

JimmyTheMook · April 25, 2018

Never trust fat people.

robblok · April 25, 2018

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

I do all of these various measurements and even an electronic scale with body composition analysis about once a month. I never depend on one measurement. I assume most pleasing plump and chubby would not do well on this measure either! I believe I read the waist measurement for men needs to be under 35" in the USA. I am under that at about 33" now but was at a 40" before. Still as I said no one in my family or circle of friends seemed to think weight loss was necessary or a good idea.

I was sick of all the metabolic medicine like HBP, etc. And not wanting the doctor to push more on me so I took matters into my own hands.

I too don't rely too much on measuring stuff too much going on in my body. I would kill for a dexa scan or a bod pod. These would really give good readings and would be comparable from period to period so you can really see if things are going well. Too bad these things are not available in Thailand. I have looked and let others look for me.

The scales can only be relied upon over a period of time as you got ups and downs (water weight ect) can be frustrating if you look at it too often. Also if you are still building muscle then weight is not the perfect indicator of fat loss. Skin calipers work but you have to have someone who knows what he is doing apply them. Tape measure around the waist is a good one as that does give accurate readings about belly fat in general.

As for people not supporting you I said it again those people who said it was not needed were probably overweight too. By telling you its a good idea they have to admit to themselves that they too should do something. Its better to pretend that everything is ok (for them) so they can go on with what they like doing.

Healthy living requires life changes.. these are hard to make for most and hard to keep up with. I admit its not easy on me always too. I love chocolate and ice cream.. I could stuff myself with pizza or other foods.. but I don't (not now anyway).

Justfine · April 25, 2018

1 hour ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Never trust fat people.

Never trust a skinny chef

Justfine · April 25, 2018

6 foot person 36 inches or less

Wonder how many Americans are 40+ and how many are 50+.

Kaalle · April 25, 2018

Rubbish.

Yeah you are right, cant argue when you make such a solid point.

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk

dontoearth · April 26, 2018

19 hours ago, robblok said:

I too don't rely too much on measuring stuff too much going on in my body. I would kill for a dexa scan or a bod pod. These would really give good readings and would be comparable from period to period so you can really see if things are going well. Too bad these things are not available in Thailand. I have looked and let others look for me.

The scales can only be relied upon over a period of time as you got ups and downs (water weight ect) can be frustrating if you look at it too often. Also if you are still building muscle then weight is not the perfect indicator of fat loss. Skin calipers work but you have to have someone who knows what he is doing apply them. Tape measure around the waist is a good one as that does give accurate readings about belly fat in general.

As for people not supporting you I said it again those people who said it was not needed were probably overweight too. By telling you its a good idea they have to admit to themselves that they too should do something. Its better to pretend that everything is ok (for them) so they can go on with what they like doing.

Healthy living requires life changes.. these are hard to make for most and hard to keep up with. I admit its not easy on me always too. I love chocolate and ice cream.. I could stuff myself with pizza or other foods.. but I don't (not now anyway).

Electronic scales with a large amount of measurements like Bodyfat, musclemass, fatfree mass, viseral fat etc. are on the market now and have an accuracy according to the manufacture of within about 1% of the Dexa. They are getting cheap and anyone can afford them for the home these days. I have access to one at my health club but will be buying one when I get home to the USA.

Weighing yourself on an old fashioned scale is a pretty useless idea. I am really surprised that doctor's offices still push that crap when they could easily afford a better measuring device for their patients.

dontoearth · April 26, 2018

On 4/22/2018 at 11:09 AM, JSixpack said:

Consider Refeeds For Fat Loss: The Science Behind Leptin

Thanks. I read up on the refeed idea and think it would be great for those pursing low carb, no carb, atkins, paleo etc. I see the wisdom in boosting Lepitin. I see changing the body these days as like squeezing a ballon. One squeeze at the bottom gives you a new bump at the top! And I see the danger in all the hunger hormones returning to my body as a result of cheat or refeed day!

My success has been with intermittent fasting and I am reaching a point where I hate CHEAT DAYS. I HATE THE PEOPLE that good naturedly invite me on them and extroll the virtues of them. The cheat days reignites my hunger hormones which had subsided from the IF. This is one thing people don't understand about IF until they do it. In a few days the skipped meal hunger is gone. You just don't care about it anymore. I think the refeed would make the return of hunger so much worse I might attack children for candy! LOL. ROFL. I am thinking the next step for me will be OMAD (One Meal a DAY) and no meal fast days to break below this next plateau. I am in the battle to get the fat to break up and no better way then using it as fuel on a empty stomach. Off it comes!

This is going to be hard but my friends that drag me along and belittle me for cheat day are in Europe for 3 months probably getting even fatter! So I have some time to work out this plan. I will probably need to make a full fast day on a non-gym day and then work on the OMAD plan for the first day of returning to the gym. BTW, I do eat complex carbs which are whole raw fruit and cooked veggies and raw salad veggies. I don't do cereal or oatmeal or any of the other so called complex carbs which are just simple carbs with good marketing hype!

I was reluctant to take this step but I probably just won't tell anybody I know! When I asked to skip cheat day with my friends (the friends have diabetes and just had a stroke and they wolf the pizza down and takes the meds right at the table) I was told I am becoming aggressive and unpleasant from my gym exercises and should watch it! My friends are like many americans they believe those doctors pills are just magic and are helping them in every possible way. The studies which show they are just going to progress to more disease they simple blow off and question.

I had this with my own father so I am learning to shut up and grit the teeth. I just don't want this to be me in the future. I truly don't like pizza and can't eat much ice cream because of a milk allergy. Now bread is addictive but I can stay off it for long periods of time. Hate breakfast cereals and grains unless I boil a full whole grain from the kernel (which is a complex carb) which I can't do here in Thailand because I don't have a kitchen to use.

Edited April 26, 2018 by dontoearth
typos

robblok · April 26, 2018

3 hours ago, dontoearth said:

Electronic scales with a large amount of measurements like Bodyfat, musclemass, fatfree mass, viseral fat etc. are on the market now and have an accuracy according to the manufacture of within about 1% of the Dexa. They are getting cheap and anyone can afford them for the home these days. I have access to one at my health club but will be buying one when I get home to the USA.

Weighing yourself on an old fashioned scale is a pretty useless idea. I am really surprised that doctor's offices still push that crap when they could easily afford a better measuring device for their patients.

Pardon me for not believing this. The scales that measure bodyfat do so on the bases of tables. Those tables are gotten from the average population.. not from people who exercise hard and have more then average fat.

I read up all about these scales and its usefulness. I got one of those scales too (wireless one sends data to the computer) The measurements i get are crazy.

robblok · April 26, 2018

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

Thanks. I read up on the refeed idea and think it would be great for those pursing low carb, no carb, atkins, paleo etc. I see the wisdom in boosting Lepitin. I see changing the body these days as like squeezing a ballon. One squeeze at the bottom gives you a new bump at the top! And I see the danger in all the hunger hormones returning to my body as a result of cheat or refeed day!

My success has been with intermittent fasting and I am reaching a point where I hate CHEAT DAYS. I HATE THE PEOPLE that good naturedly invite me on them and extroll the virtues of them. The cheat days reignites my hunger hormones which had subsided from the IF. This is one thing people don't understand about IF until they do it. In a few days the skipped meal hunger is gone. You just don't care about it anymore. I think the refeed would make the return of hunger so much worse I might attack children for candy! LOL. ROFL. I am thinking the next step for me will be OMAD (One Meal a DAY) and no meal fast days to break below this next plateau. I am in the battle to get the fat to break up and no better way then using it as fuel on a empty stomach. Off it comes!

This is going to be hard but my friends that drag me along and belittle me for cheat day are in Europe for 3 months probably getting even fatter! So I have some time to work out this plan. I will probably need to make a full fast day on a non-gym day and then work on the OMAD plan for the first day of returning to the gym. BTW, I do eat complex carbs which are whole raw fruit and cooked veggies and raw salad veggies. I don't do cereal or oatmeal or any of the other so called complex carbs which are just simple carbs with good marketing hype!

I was reluctant to take this step but I probably just won't tell anybody I know! When I asked to skip cheat day with my friends (the friends have diabetes and just had a stroke and they wolf the pizza down and takes the meds right at the table) I was told I am becoming aggressive and unpleasant from my gym exercises and should watch it! My friends are like many americans they believe those doctors pills are just magic and are helping them in every possible way. The studies which show they are just going to progress to more disease they simple blow off and question.

I had this with my own father so I am learning to shut up and grit the teeth. I just don't want this to be me in the future. I truly don't like pizza and can't eat much ice cream because of a milk allergy. Now bread is addictive but I can stay off it for long periods of time. Hate breakfast cereals and grains unless I boil a full whole grain from the kernel (which is a complex carb) which I can't do here in Thailand because I don't have a kitchen to use.

I agree that a refeed can bring back hunger... but I do believe they help to keep the metabolic rate up. I would not call it a cheat day I would call it a day with more calories / carbs. However that does not mean pizza (wish it would) just more of the normal healthy stuff you eat.

Today I had the unpleasant experience of getting bitten by my own dog on the nose. I went to the hospital loads of stitches injections for rabbies in the nose and ass.... injections in the nose hurt (even though my dog is vaccinated against it does not roam free only gets out with us on a line and sleeps in the house). My dog is a cranky bastard and I think he has a brain problem. I am his owner never hit him always take good care of him. He loves my new gf.. protects her from me (gf is new in the house and more important to him). Anyway I forgive the dog (hate the damage he did. But it did mean I could not train today. That sucks. Will probably be training again tomorrow as its a bite to the nose and should not hinder me too much.

I feel I am going the right way training wise and am on the way losing the weight i gained (around 4-5 kg to go depending on how lean I want to be). This time I will be doing a refeed once a week. Just to see if it works. I am in no rush as I don't have a belly or look fat. Just want to get back to the real lean state i was in. I figure on 2 months to get the weight off again.

I have also been told that i am too fanatic when I confront my family when they get too fat. I just don't talk too much anymore about diet and exercise when I am with them. There are not many like minded people around but I think we all try to stay slim for ourselves and the only conflicts arise when we eat together with others.

dontoearth · April 26, 2018

6 hours ago, robblok said:

Pardon me for not believing this. The scales that measure bodyfat do so on the bases of tables. Those tables are gotten from the average population.. not from people who exercise hard and have more then average fat.

I read up all about these scales and its usefulness. I got one of those scales too (wireless one sends data to the computer) The measurements i get are crazy.

I haven't tried the small personal ones. I got one years ago for the house and it was a mess. It was never accurate. I am thinking they have cleaned up the logic and digital components by now. I will have my last Tanita professional measurement before I leave thailand and then compare it to the new home scale I am getting when I get home to see how close they are in the numbers.

The big one is rated by the company against DEXA standards and is 99.5% within those standards on 100 trials. However, that machine is $1,000's of dollars. Not a home unit.

robblok · April 27, 2018

13 hours ago, dontoearth said:

I haven't tried the small personal ones. I got one years ago for the house and it was a mess. It was never accurate. I am thinking they have cleaned up the logic and digital components by now. I will have my last Tanita professional measurement before I leave thailand and then compare it to the new home scale I am getting when I get home to see how close they are in the numbers.

The big one is rated by the company against DEXA standards and is 99.5% within those standards on 100 trials. However, that machine is $1,000's of dollars. Not a home unit.

To be honest (and I know I am crazy) i would pay the money to have a machine like that IF it was not based on tables and worked on muscular people like me (say I am almost a bodybuilder). I definitely am what some people would call a muscle monkey. Though I don't consider myself a real bodybuilder as I am not big enough.

dontoearth · April 27, 2018

7 hours ago, robblok said:

To be honest (and I know I am crazy) i would pay the money to have a machine like that IF it was not based on tables and worked on muscular people like me (say I am almost a bodybuilder). I definitely am what some people would call a muscle monkey. Though I don't consider myself a real bodybuilder as I am not big enough.

They have it at Olympic Club at MBK. I don't know if a daily guest can use it or not. I downloaded and read the product manual. Yes. It does the adjustments and comparisons against DEXA. Not against tables of data. On the other hand lots of members have not been happy with what they learned. And the club is getting a lot of new help and the last guy got a terrible print out of garbage that said he was 41% bodyfat. LOL. ROFL. So some of the newer help are not well trained in using it for members.

I will use it again next week and see if they have it back in adjustment.

robblok · April 27, 2018

15 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

They have it at Olympic Club at MBK. I don't know if a daily guest can use it or not. I downloaded and read the product manual. Yes. It does the adjustments and comparisons against DEXA. Not against tables of data. On the other hand lots of members have not been happy with what they learned. And the club is getting a lot of new help and the last guy got a terrible print out of garbage that said he was 41% bodyfat. LOL. ROFL. So some of the newer help are not well trained in using it for members.

I will use it again next week and see if they have it back in adjustment.

Ok its interesting, because i stood on my digital wireless scale.. (good brand) and i am 34% fat... (of course I am not that fat at all) It just looks at my weight.. then goes to a table of average people of my height and that weight what my fat percentage would be.

dontoearth · April 27, 2018

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Ok its interesting, because i stood on my digital wireless scale.. (good brand) and i am 34% fat... (of course I am not that fat at all) It just looks at my weight.. then goes to a table of average people of my height and that weight what my fat percentage would be.

Search the product website to see how it makes the computations.

robblok · April 27, 2018

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

Search the product website to see how it makes the computations.

Thanks will do so, i really need to find a reliable way to measure my bodyfat as over the years I got heavier, gaining muscle. (but would like to see that confirmed with half yearly measurements.

Ok now i need to lose a bit of fat but that is because of the sleeping problems i had in the previous 3 months. But normally i did not gain fat and was always following my food program.

I searched a lot for a Dexa scan in Thailand so i could do half yearly tests. I just never want to be fat again. The 4 kg i need to lose are not a big problem. It will take time but its already going away.

Taggart · April 29, 2018

In the last while I've found that adding nuts, seeds and dark chocolate to what I normally eat each day helps to quell any hunger.

Nuts are limited to a hand full per day. A small amount of nut butter may be also included. Seeds (normally ground flax or chia for their omega-3 content) are kept at two to three tablespoons per day max. 70%+ dark chocolate, I have maybe two to four small squares per day. The higher the percentage, normally makes for a smaller sugar content.

dontoearth · April 30, 2018

6 hours ago, Taggart said:

In the last while I've found that adding nuts, seeds and dark chocolate to what I normally eat each day helps to quell any hunger.

Nuts are limited to a hand full per day. A small amount of nut butter may be also included. Seeds (normally ground flax or chia for their omega-3 content) are kept at two to three tablespoons per day max. 70%+ dark chocolate, I have maybe two to four small squares per day. The higher the percentage, normally makes for a smaller sugar content.

I found using the chocolate at the 90% of more cocoa is a real appetite killer. I just need one square.

robblok · April 30, 2018

18 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

I found using the chocolate at the 90% of more cocoa is a real appetite killer. I just need one square.

Wish that worked for me.. im a chocolate addict.. also the high % cocoa. There was actually documentary on the BBC where they were force feeding naturally skinny people. For many of those chocolate was the only thing they could eat unlimited (to gain weight) it did not supress their hunger. It was probably not 90%+ cocoa.

It was a nice documentary, the subjects were measured in a bod pod, one guy resisted fat gain even at higher calories and got muscle instead (without workout). Not everyone responds the same. But the skinny people were constantly complaining about how much food they had to eat. (different hunger sensation). Then later they had to lose the weight again. Did not go as easy for everyone but most lost it.

I got some non Dutched cocoa powder that I sometimes add to unflavored protein as it has many anti oxidants.

Edited April 30, 2018 by robblok

poanoi · May 5, 2018

On 4/30/2018 at 8:52 AM, robblok said:

Wish that worked for me.. im a chocolate addict.. also the high % cocoa. There was actually documentary on the BBC where they were force feeding naturally skinny people. For many of those chocolate was the only thing they could eat unlimited (to gain weight) it did not supress their hunger. It was probably not 90%+ cocoa.

It was a nice documentary, the subjects were measured in a bod pod, one guy resisted fat gain even at higher calories and got muscle instead (without workout). Not everyone responds the same. But the skinny people were constantly complaining about how much food they had to eat. (different hunger sensation). Then later they had to lose the weight again. Did not go as easy for everyone but most lost it.

I got some non Dutched cocoa powder that I sometimes add to unflavored protein as it has many anti oxidants.

all you can eat buffet gain only muscle, what a rush to live in those times when

science have unlocked this one,

manfred hoeberl watch out for competition

Edited May 5, 2018 by poanoi

Justfine · May 5, 2018

On 30/04/2018 at 11:34 AM, dontoearth said:

I found using the chocolate at the 90% of more cocoa is a real appetite killer. I just need one square.

Not sure why. Cocoa I use in shakes.

Justfine · May 5, 2018

On 26/04/2018 at 10:46 AM, dontoearth said:

Electronic scales with a large amount of measurements like Bodyfat, musclemass, fatfree mass, viseral fat etc. are on the market now and have an accuracy according to the manufacture of within about 1% of the Dexa. They are getting cheap and anyone can afford them for the home these days. I have access to one at my health club but will be buying one when I get home to the USA.

Weighing yourself on an old fashioned scale is a pretty useless idea. I am really surprised that doctor's offices still push that crap when they could easily afford a better measuring device for their patients.

I found a machine like that in pharmacy.

Scales arent useless. They are a guide. People know what their fit weight is and can compare. Costs like $20 for good scales. You don't need a gp to tell you what a good weight is. You know yourself.

Justfine · May 5, 2018

On 27/04/2018 at 10:37 AM, robblok said:

To be honest (and I know I am crazy) i would pay the money to have a machine like that IF it was not based on tables and worked on muscular people like me (say I am almost a bodybuilder). I definitely am what some people would call a muscle monkey. Though I don't consider myself a real bodybuilder as I am not big enough.

Just compare yourself to rugby players. Find one the same height and see what their weight is.

Paul Gallen 180cm, 103/104 kgs

Luke Lewis 188cm, 105kgs

So unless you are taller 100 to 105kgs is a good weight when carrying muscle.

robblok · May 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Justfine said:

Just compare yourself to rugby players. Find one the same height and see what their weight is.

Paul Gallen 180cm, 103/104 kgs

Luke Lewis 188cm, 105kgs

So unless you are taller 100 to 105kgs is a good weight when carrying muscle.

I get what you are saying, but because changes are so small in my body (in general not now that i am losing fat that I gained) its just nice to know if the KG i gained is fat or muscle. In the end it should not matter much only how i look. Its just occupational deformation I am an accountant and I like numbers and facts.

I think in general bodybuilder will be more lean then rugby players (they certainly are not fat)

Nice of you to join the debate again (meant seriously before it is mistaken for sarcasm)

Edited May 6, 2018 by robblok

robblok · May 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Justfine said:

Not sure why. Cocoa I use in shakes.

I use a bit of it too with the unflavored protein shakes to be honest it still does not make it taste good but i hear there are many anti oxidants and other good stuff in Cocoa as long as you take the one that is not Dutched (how i hate it that my countries name stands for something negative *LOL*)

robblok · May 6, 2018

5 hours ago, poanoi said:

all you can eat buffet gain only muscle, what a rush to live in those times when

science have unlocked this one,

manfred hoeberl watch out for competition

There are just genetic freaks everywhere the people in the top of the field of sports usually have a genetic advantage over others. The top bodybuilders its not just steroids if it was that easy everyone could reach the top. Its training + a genetic advantage.

poanoi · May 6, 2018

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

There are just genetic freaks everywhere the people in the top of the field of sports usually have a genetic advantage over others. The top bodybuilders its not just steroids if it was that easy everyone could reach the top. Its training + a genetic advantage.

yes, but i'm thinking of those genetic freaks, i was watching a documentary

of a man who could not add any fat at all to his body,

i think one day, we can take a pill to get that effect, or any other desired effect,

hopefully not as repulsive as DNP

Justfine · May 6, 2018

There's a few fat rugby players at the top level but those 2 I mentioned are super fit. Lewis used to be a fast winger before going into the forwards and adding muscle.

Justfine · May 6, 2018

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I use a bit of it too with the unflavored protein shakes to be honest it still does not make it taste good but i hear there are many anti oxidants and other good stuff in Cocoa as long as you take the one that is not Dutched (how i hate it that my countries name stands for something negative *LOL*)

I put in carrots and strawberries plus spices and I like the flavour. Currently trying pea protein instead of whey. It was cheaper and low sugar.

dontoearth · May 6, 2018

6 hours ago, Justfine said:

Scales arent useless. They are a guide. People know what their fit weight is and can compare. Costs like $20 for good scales. You don't need a gp to tell you what a good weight is. You know yourself.

Recently, the various youtubes I watch on health and fitness are talking about TOFI (thin on the outside, fat on the inside) as the reason that about 30% of heart disease patients are of normal weight according to just a plain scale. Once they do some more sophisticated weighing like body fat and muscle mass and graphical composition analysis they find these TOFI have huge viseral fat deposits causing serious problems in the circulatory system. They have a fit weight only in pounds (kilo) not a fit weight in terms of healthy body composition.

So scales can't tell you the whole story unless you get some of the other measurements.

My simply bathroom scale told me for 6 months that I had not gained a single pound while I was home in Chicago. I was walking 14 miles a day. When I returned here to my health club where I have free use of a very expensive full featured body composition scale from Tanita with software analysis I discovered I had gained 9 lbs of FAT. I had maintained my exact weight on a simple scale but my general over health was sliding. I do wonder how many people using just simple scales are not getting a clear enough picture of their overall condition. Most doctors have not put in these new scales yet preferring to make the patient go for expensive MRI's and other high cost procedures for body measurements in the USA.

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