Has Pattaya Reached Tipping Point

[johnnyk]

Has Pattaya reached tipping point with respect to its development? Do you think it's now all downhill because of increased street crime, wanton violence, drugs, increasing dissatisfaction with public utility services (water supply, public transport, garbage collection), no user friendly green areas, dirty beaches, stinking drains, traffic increase, traffic signals not working, air pollution, stressed out Thais?

This morning I walked along Dongtan beach. The walking road is filthy. The smell of sour garbage hung over everything. Palm trees are unkempt. Green corrugated iron fence looks awful and garbage is being dumped behind it wherever it's open. I looked at the faces of all the tourists I met and didn't see one smiling. If I were a regular tourist there's no way I would make a return visit. In Jomthien and Pattaya outside of the hotel grounds everything is soooo dirty!!

Except for the beach the palm trees and the stressed out Thais I've seen similar in some cities in the UK and America.

[icecubes]

Central Festival Department Store ( the Big C)

Got charged for the car park today.

thought that was a bit knob of them.

Never checked if you buy something and get a stamp then its free parking,

any one know?

TIT.

Damned ripp offs; since when is that? Pay for parking at this horrible caroussel!!!! The last time I went up there.......it tok about 1,5 hours to find out that the place was absolutely stuffed (twice) and luckiy there was some kind of exit. What a crap!! And now they are charging? Amazing!!!

That’s about what I thought,

And a one more thing the motor cycle parking area at the Big C

Is just taking the piss now,

how many time do you have to burn your leg on someone elses hot exhaust pipe to get your bike out of the parking slot. (it way to small)

Amazing Thailand.

[jinjok]

the really cool thing about pattaya from about 1998 to 2003 (98 my first stay in pattaya) was that it had such a bad rep that everyone avoided it. it was both cheap and convenient at the same time the islands became super scammy rip-offs and over crowded. i just thought...screw it. 1.5 hours from bkk (rmember that?!). it aint paradise, but over the hill is a nice beach and is cheap as chips.

its now a total horror show. floods of ill mannered losers and out of control construction. ive been gone for three months so...how is the 30 floor condo on 2nd rd doing?? OUCH!

[jeepster]

I,ve been coming to pattaya for 15 years and the only reason the place has gone down hill is due to the mass influx of louts from Britain .As soon as you put wall to wall football together with ;cheap ale and a police force that lets you create hel_l and then lets you off with a paltry fine you are asking for trouble . Years ago when the place was full of fat old Germans the locals were delighted to see a Brit .Now I,m ashamed to say where i come from . The girls have also hardened up as a result of being exposed to the sort of behaviour which is par for the course in the UK .There is an easy solution of course ...crack down hard on anti social behaviour , make the scum terrified to step out of line and they will soon clear off and find somewhere else to spoil

[dee123]

globalisation......not something i look forward to....25 years holidays then living in thai....its changed....my god nignoy what must you think....my friends girlfriend who is 48 years old was born in pattaya........last time i flew to thai boarding the plane was like getting on a football special train.....all the bad boys..................memorys!!!

[icecubes]

I,ve been coming to pattaya for 15 years and the only reason the place has gone down hill is due to the mass influx of louts from Britain .As soon as you put wall to wall football together with ;cheap ale and a police force that lets you create hel_l and then lets you off with a paltry fine you are asking for trouble . Years ago when the place was full of fat old Germans the locals were delighted to see a Brit .Now I,m ashamed to say where i come from . The girls have also hardened up as a result of being exposed to the sort of behaviour which is par for the course in the UK .There is an easy solution of course ...crack down hard on anti social behaviour , make the scum terrified to step out of line and they will soon clear off and find somewhere else to spoil

Yea,, lets ban football,, Remove every Tv from all bars, thats both kinds of Tv.

only joking, but think you guys have a point.

Football thugs are here.

[monty]

Came the first time here in '89, and been living here permanently since '93, so I have seen a lot of changes myself.

Major problem (not only in Pattaya mind you), they never seem to be able to keep up with the massive expansion, they're constantly running behind on things such as waste, water supply, telecommunications, police force etc...

Now mind, this is pretty much on par for a developing country, which Thailand definitely is! They do put on the mask of a fully developed place, but behind this facade they are not!

And no, I don't really see a tipping point for Pattaya, the place is just dynamically changing! I do see maybe a slowing of the growth in tourism, but it gets compensated by an accelerated growth of expats/retired people coming to live here.

Remember, Pattaya is much bigger then the area between third road and beach road.

Talking with several business people gives me the impression that places catering to people living here all year round are doing increasingly well! Places relying solely on the tourist trade are getting it harder and harder.

18 years ago when I first came here, Pattaya was basically only suited for tourists. There were simply not enough facilities for people deciding to live out here, apart for the few adventurous minded people!

There were almost no phonelines to be had, communications were difficult and expensive. There was 1 supermarket catering to foreign tastes, and it was terribly overpriced. 14" television sets were cheap, all the other electric/electronic appliances were ridiculously expensive. The level of English spoken/understood was even lower then nowadays.

Today, the place might have lost a lot of it's attraction for tourists, but it has gained a whole lot more attractions for people coming to live here. Simply put, you have pretty much all of the luxuries you had in your home country at a lot cheaper prices (with some notable exceptions of course such as wine, cheese etc, and even that has improved greatly with the invasion of the European superstores)

What budget would a retired person need to go out for dinner every single day of the month, sampling cuisines from all over the world? In Europe such a lifestyle is reserved only for the very rich! Would you have a maid back home? A driver?

I know not too many expats might have them, but it would be more out of habit of doing things yourself then of not being able to afford domestic help!

So in short, I see Pattaya (especially the bigger area surrounding the city) maybe not booming, but definitely expanding at a good pace. I see it daily when driving around the area I live in! And I see it in the fact of my business picking up much faster then I myself had anticipated!

[chanchao]

Overall, looking at the last 20 years, Pattaya is improving a lot in just about every respect. (except perhaps water supply, but that'll get fixed, too)

It's really a sensible family beach destination these days, especially the Wong Amat area, and then whatever that small beach is called near the Cosy Beach / Royal Cliff hotel.

[icecubes]

There are loads of things improving in pattya.

but they are not all good.

so yes you are right but wrong as well.

Does someone want to start the list of bad thing?

Ok i will. but only one from me

1) crime. is improving. its up 50% at least.

Next

[Mobi]

Here is letter published in the current edition of Pattaya Mail.

Nothing particularly, remarkable, original or earth shattering about it.

Just a typical letter, of which we have seen a growing number during the past year or so.

Who gives a ######?

Editor:

We’ve enjoyed the openness and vitality of Pattaya for ten consecutive years, often bringing family members and friends, and seeing friends who are here on our recommendation. The friendliness of the people, the beauty of the country, the beaches and the wonderful food, all brought us back each year for our month-long January vacation, and we alone have contributed around 100,000 baht to the Thai economy each year. Gradually over the past few years we’ve noticed a change. Many more tourists, more crime - usually by Thais - and a diminishing of the friendly Pattaya spirit. We’ve also noticed an almost total failure of the town to react.

In most countries, pedestrians have priority over motorists. In Viet Nam, it’s about equal. It’s a shock to new visitors that in Pattaya, cars and motorcycles have priority over pedestrians. You’d think then that the sidewalks would at least be safe, but Pattaya sidewalks are more torturous than the streets. For instance, while attempting the daily street crossing at the Manhattan, a baht bus and motorcycle slowed enough for us to negotiate the passing, but a fast moving car almost got us. It was a white tourist police car, zooming past us so close and so fast that the “We protect and serve” was a blur. What irony! But two days later, while on the beach walk, my wife was almost run over by a motorbike driven by a tourist police officer who couldn’t have cared less that he almost wiped out one of his supposedly precious tourists. We mentioned this to an English-speaking tourist police volunteer when we got to Walking Street (another oxymoron given the errant speeding motorcycle). The volunteer politely listened and responded that the new police chief has pledged to make Pattaya more hospitable to tourists, but how many times over the years have we all heard that?

Adding to this type of danger are the various steps and drops in the level of the sidewalks, the holes that go uncovered for weeks, the sharp stumps of cut off signs that slice toes, the running water that has tourists slipping and falling. Perhaps it’s actually a service that in many places, tourists are actually forced to walk in the streets because businesses usurp sidewalks for tables, hookahs and whatever. I was recently walking past a 7-Eleven with a fairly clear sidewalk only to have a Thai girl run her motorcycle up a ramp, parking it directly in front of me. Our eyes met and she casually got off the bike and walked into the store, leaving her bike fully blocking my path and then the entire sidewalk.

Of course there are many areas where there are no sidewalks at all. Take for instance the daily horror my wife and I experience walking from and to our apartment on Soi Yensabai. We noticed recently that two Pattaya police officers stopping drivers who were not wearing helmets, while remaining completely oblivious to two motorcycles that sped down our soi at about 40 miles per hour, skirting pedestrians who were squeezed between a wall and the line of cars parked along the other wall of the already narrow street.

So the Thais don’t give a ######, and the police - even the TAT - don’t give a ######. It’s catching, because now we don’t give a ######. We’re not coming back and we’re certainly not recommending Pattaya as a place to visit while in Thailand. If you don’t improve things, vastly and promptly, soon the only visitors you’ll have are the ones you don’t really want.

Has Pattaya reached tipping point?

I doubt it, but as a tourist destination I think it is in for an increasing amount of bad publicity, and bad mouthing from disatisfied visitors. This will inevitably result in a marked drop off in tourist business but that may be a couple of years or so away yet.

As for foreign residents - well as long as you live East of Sukhumvit, you will probably continue to enjoy a unique and pleasant lifestyle for many years to come.

Edited January 29, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[Kerryd]

While Pattaya still has a long way to go, there are improvements. Some are painful (like when ever they tear up the roads to do what ever).

Not everything can be done at once though. It wasn't too long ago that most of Pattaya's raw sewage was pumped out into the bay. During the rainy season it was often difficult to tell where the beach ended and Walking Street began (due to the poor drainage and flooding). Many (most) of the sidewalks consisted of lop-sided slabs of concrete jutting up at weird angles.

There have been numerous improvements, but the city's expansion seems to rapidly outpace them. On one hand they improve the sewage system, then on the other a whole pile of new condo developments spring up that put a strain on the system by the time it's completed.

Same for the water system. The improvements they are making to prevent water shortages now, will probably be inadequate in a couple of years due to the rapid growth.

Something to remember to, is that back in your home countries they have more efficient tax systems. You can hardly make a dime (or spend one) without being taxed. I'll be the various levels of government here don't collect anywhere near the taxes that would be generated in similar cities in your home countries.

The spending practises of those various levels of government are not scrutinized/audited/criticised anywhere near what they would be in your home countries either. This can lead to some shady deals which do more for the elected officials than the people they represent.

I'm pretty sure though, that the "big money" (hotels/international chains/condo developers, ect) that is investing here wouldn't be doing so if they (and their armies of analysts) thought the city had no future and was on the verge of collapse.

There will always be those that wish things could return to the way they were (i.e. the sleepy little fishing village of the 60's) and there will always be those that wish the progress would happen quicker.

Take some pictures of the city now. Compare them to what is was like 10/20/30/40 years ago. Then, in 10/20/30/40 years from now, take some more pictures and see what the difference is.

I'll bet people have been having discussions like this ever since the first GI's descended on Pattaya 40 some odd years ago !

In the meantime, remember the old saying:

1) Don't sweat the small stuff.

2) It's all small stuff.

[OlRedEyes]

Here is letter published in the current edition of Pattaya Mail.

So the Thais don’t give a ######, and the police - even the TAT - don’t give a ######. It’s catching, because now we don’t give a ######. We’re not coming back and we’re certainly not recommending Pattaya as a place to visit while in Thailand. If you don’t improve things, vastly and promptly, soon the only visitors you’ll have are the ones you don’t really want.

Haven't been to Pattaya for years, so I don't comment. But I have from time to time (lately) read some of the threads here. Two things stand out:

Those that say it's getting to be a (bigger) dump. The local expats and regular visitors counter quite often with 'because of the (football) thugs from the UK' etc.

Maybe that last line says it all. Except it's already happened? Often ignoring criticism, or countering it with 'go home if you don't like it' results in degradation. You'll then find the same ppl bitching about the 'quality ' of the foreign visitors, and blame it on them, when it's actually a consequence of the head in the sand, or rosecoloured glasses, syndrome.

[Nignoy]

Here is letter published in the current edition of Pattaya Mail.

So the Thais don’t give a ######, and the police - even the TAT - don’t give a ######. It’s catching, because now we don’t give a ######. We’re not coming back and we’re certainly not recommending Pattaya as a place to visit while in Thailand. If you don’t improve things, vastly and promptly, soon the only visitors you’ll have are the ones you don’t really want.

Haven't been to Pattaya for years, so I don't comment. But I have from time to time (lately) read some of the threads here. Two things stand out:

Those that say it's getting to be a (bigger) dump. The local expats and regular visitors counter quite often with 'because of the (football) thugs from the UK' etc.

Maybe that last line says it all. Except it's already happened? Often ignoring criticism, or countering it with 'go home if you don't like it' results in degradation. You'll then find the same ppl bitching about the 'quality ' of the foreign visitors, and blame it on them, when it's actually a consequence of the head in the sand, or rosecoloured glasses, syndrome.

All this is Cobblers, blaming the tourists ,or the expats or the thais for the state of pattaya today, its called welcome to the modern world, people are encouraged to visit as tourists , to settle down and buy a condo or a house, High rises going up , new soi,s and estates, but there is no infrastructure to support all this new development, But guess what its getting to be the same everywhere where there is a golden clean safe beach,I near live Part of the year near Bribie Island in Queensland, 6 years ago in our village there were 407 houses now there are over 4000 and 4 brand new highrise blocks of flats, and guess what, NO Infra structure, we are plagued with raw sewage being pumpedinto the pumicestone passage and Moreton Bay the beaches are contaminated with Lyngbia bloom caused by polluted groundwater seepage from the over development, okay we dont get the lager louts or the problems with the girly bars , but other drunks and crazy drivers are a problem all your round, and drugs are easier to come by here than in thailand, I think the big resorts in UK ,Portugaland spain have the same problems too. All that Pattaya is suffering from, is growing up too quickly!! give it another 5 to 10 years it will all work out!! Nignoy

[icecubes]

Mobi D'Ark' date='2007-01-29 12:15:26' post='1108759']

Has Pattaya reached tipping point?

I doubt it, but as a tourist destination I think it is in for an increasing amount of bad publicity, and bad mouthing from disatisfied visitors. This will inevitably result in a marked drop off in tourist business but that may be a couple of years or so away yet.

As for foreign residents - well as long as you live East of Sukhumvit, you will probably continue to enjoy a unique and pleasant lifestyle for many years to come. ]

That is so true. 100% correct.

[Dragonmode]

Pattaya will continue to expand and will continue to improve it`s facilities.

Tammi you must always remember that Thailand is a developing country and it takes longer time to improve situations here.....................but isn`t that all part of the charm of the place?......that`s why we don`t go to Blackpool....we go to Pattaya.

There are far worse places in the world to be believe me

you can get anything you want in pattaya as long as pay for it

WHERE CAN I FIND GRAPE NUTS?

At boyztown

[wilko]

"Do you think it's now all downhill because of increased street crime, wanton violence, drugs, increasing dissatisfaction with public utility services (water supply, public transport, garbage collection), no user friendly green areas, dirty beaches, stinking drains, traffic increase, traffic signals not working, air pollution, stressed out Thais?"

So what ,precisely, has actually CHANGED?

[loong]

Yes, I believe that Pattaya has reached tipping point.

The Thai government has made it quite clear that they want to attract a better class of "quality" tourists. They seem to be doing everything that they can to discourage the average Pattaya tourist/expat. Closing times, Visa regs etc

At the same time, Pattaya is doing very little to improve it's image and so attract the "quality" visitor. I enjoy the laid back attitude, but do find it irritating at times. Pattaya does not have too many good points, but I still like it. There is a lot of room for improvement, but I don't foresee much happening there!

Pattaya City Council do have some good ideas. About 4 years ago, they devoted a lot of time to the idea of zoning and that seemed to be a step in the right direction. But probably too good an idea, so never got off the drawing board.

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

[chanchao]

> There is a lot of room for improvement

Yes. For starters, *every* soi could look like Soi 6 Beach Road, instead of just half of them.

Edited January 30, 2007 by chanchao

[britmaveric]

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

Good, hope those sorts stay away!!!!

Edited January 30, 2007 by britmaveric

[Mid]

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

Good, hope those sorts stay away!!!!

[Ulysses G.]

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

Good, hope those sorts stay away!!!!

Agreed!

[snoophound]

Unfortunately due to a strong pound Englands lowlife can pollute the place.

Nothing against a working mans holiday,but these Chavs can live in Pattaya on benefit payments.

My first trip was in about 75 when it was actualy quite fashionable to go there as a new and up and coming destination.

Now its a place for great fat men,with bloated bodies,skinhead haircuts and tatt0os,Why does the english tourist have to pollute everywhere they go with Naf restaurants selling egg and chips ,look what they did to Spain.

Once Britain was a great empire ,now its all about NO1 funny thing is we still want to be respected....for what?

Agree with the previous poster comment on how hard this has made the girls which in the main is why these fools gravitate to pattaya...I mean it couldnt be the cheap beer and sun could it.

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

Good, hope those sorts stay away!!!!

Agreed!

[icecubes]

Unfortunately due to a strong pound Englands lowlife can pollute the place.

Nothing against a working mans holiday,but these Chavs can live in Pattaya on benefit payments.

My first trip was in about 75 when it was actualy quite fashionable to go there as a new and up and coming destination.

Now its a place for great fat men,with bloated bodies,skinhead haircuts and tatt0os,Why does the english tourist have to pollute everywhere they go with Naf restaurants selling egg and chips ,look what they did to Spain.

Once Britain was a great empire ,now its all about NO1 funny thing is we still want to be respected....for what?

Agree with the previous poster comment on how hard this has made the girls which in the main is why these fools gravitate to pattaya...I mean it couldnt be the cheap beer and sun could it.

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

Good, hope those sorts stay away!!!!

Agreed!

You cant blame it all on the brits,, but do agree about the egg and chips.

I had a good friend over at Christmas, we agreed to go out to the library in soi 6 for some reading. He suggested we go for some food first, ok so what did he insist on having , that’s it poached eggs on toast in a brit bar. We nearly had a major falling out over this, with all the different types of food from all over the world on offer in pattaya.

He had to have his Poached eggs on toast.

Some times us brits are very narrow minded over food.

We miss out on so much as a Nation. on this.

But you can blame the Yanks for the outrageous tipping in pattaya for crap service.

Have a nice day

[helicoptor]

I believe the tourist industry has around Beach Road

Regarding other non-tourist related businesses the place is booming

[chanchao]

> Regarding other non-tourist related businesses the place is booming

Yes, I can't help but be reminded of that every time I drive into Pattaya. This is becoming a VERY big city. I know they don't count population numbers of people actually living there, but Pattaya must be approaching the top 10 of biggest Thai cities?

[fisherd3]

In a country where it is normal to ashphelt a road to repair it in the morning and in the afternoon the same road has broken up and build a brand new international airport with amongst other things sections of the multi storey car a park having no drainage on the top two floors, why do farangs constantly have discussions framed in the thought processes of their native countries?

TiT and by their 'standards' it is very imperfect indeed, it is plain the Thai government does not want these judgemental farangs in Thailand long term so why not just do your 'short time' and let them get on with their imperfection that they choose to impose on their citizens....up to them!!

[calibanjr.]

You cant blame it all on the brits,, but do agree about the egg and chips.

I had a good friend over at Christmas, we agreed to go out to the library in soi 6 for some reading. He suggested we go for some food first, ok so what did he insist on having , that’s it poached eggs on toast in a brit bar. We nearly had a major falling out over this, with all the different types of food from all over the world on offer in pattaya.

He had to have his Poached eggs on toast.

Some times us brits are very narrow minded over food.

We miss out on so much as a Nation. on this.

But you can blame the Yanks for the outrageous tipping in pattaya for crap service.

Have a nice day

I lived in Soi 6 for 9 months, owned Gang's Pub (as a partner), back in 2003, and I looked for the library all the time, never found it! Does it exist? Not that I'm going back to Pattaya any time soon.

And yes, you can blame Americans for overtipping (even for shoddy service) pretty much worldwide, part of the salary/tipping system back home.

Edited January 31, 2007 by calibanjr.

[wilko]

So if this is the tipping point....what will happen next?

A lot of my friends who still visited Pattaya in the late 1970s, many are married to Thais, reckon that apart from size, the place hasn't changed.

The biggest change this last year appears to be a big increase in visitors from Eastern Europe and a huge drop in the numbers from UK but the town doesn't care whose money it is......

Edited January 31, 2007 by wilko

[Nignoy]

Unfortunately due to a strong pound Englands lowlife can pollute the place.

Nothing against a working mans holiday,but these Chavs can live in Pattaya on benefit payments.

My first trip was in about 75 when it was actualy quite fashionable to go there as a new and up and coming destination.

Now its a place for great fat men,with bloated bodies,skinhead haircuts and tatt0os,Why does the english tourist have to pollute everywhere they go with Naf restaurants selling egg and chips ,look what they did to Spain.

Once Britain was a great empire ,now its all about NO1 funny thing is we still want to be respected....for what?

Agree with the previous poster comment on how hard this has made the girls which in the main is why these fools gravitate to pattaya...I mean it couldnt be the cheap beer and sun could it.Much the same as the kiwi,s do in Australia at the moment, at least us so called whinging poms emigrate to work , not cross the tasman to sign up on the dole and be a burden on hardworking australian taxpayers , you never see any Naf kiwi cafes or pubs , because they have no cuisine of their own ,unless someone opens a taro or sweetpotato butty bar,you can find a few of the educated kiwis working as bouncers or club doormen,some of the more savage ones are taught to eat off aplate and are allowed out of their cages once a week to play rugby league, the more physhho example play RUGBY UNION Nignoy

I have met a lot of tourists who have told me that 1 visit to Pattaya is enough and that they will never come back. Please note that they loved other places, such as Chiang Mai, and many will come back to Thailand, just not to Pattaya.

Good, hope those sorts stay away!!!!

Agreed!

[Tolley]

Pattaya is not for everybody but it does have a lot of attractions and those attractons mainly lie in the nightlife area.

Lots of great eateries, bars, discos and of course girls.

Add the fact that it is cheap and I don't see Pattaya going anywhere but up.

All the downsides of Pattaya can easily be endured if you have enough of the above.

Pattaya has no where near peaked as evidenced by the large amount of construction going on right now.

Thais probably don't think Pattaya has peaked as they have a different notion of personal space.

Given you can often have three or four Thails living in a bedsit there would seem to be still plenty of space left in Pattaya.