6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Plod will have beaten me to it by the time I'm next there ?

No, your wife, kids and parents! Not the bloody bench!

Just been reading about another Russian murdered in the UK - happens to be an enemy of Putin.

 

A murder inquiry was opened last night after a second attack on one of President Putin’s enemies in Britain.

Nikolai Glushkov, 68, was found strangled at his home in London hours after Theresa May issued an ultimatum in the House of Commons to the Russian leader over the Salisbury poisonings.

Counterterrorism detectives are treating his death on Monday as murder after a post-mortem examination found that he had died of compression to the neck. Police said there was no link at this stage to the attempted murders of Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/police-say-nikolai-glushkov-enemy-of-putin-was-murdered-pkxkqdrsl

 
How is that evidence? In the normal world we carry out an investigation first. Then we assign blame. 
 
The government pretty much asked Russia to prove its innocence instead without providing them with any evidence or even a sample of the alleged nerve agent. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/16/russian-spy-poisoning-attack-novichok-chemist

The above will help you understand.



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9 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/16/russian-spy-poisoning-attack-novichok-chemist

The above will help you understand.



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What stands out from that article is how little Mirzayanov appears to know about novichok.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/salisbury-attack-statement-following-british-ambassadors-meeting-with-russian-government

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/britain-needs-its-allies-to-stand-with-us-against-russia-article-by-boris-johnson

16 hours ago, riclag said:

"Unfortunately in this day and age thanks to fake news/ Info war's /nonsense click bait videos on YouTube etc people are looking for a Conspiracy Theory in Everything. Also it seems like no one can agree with a person or government sometimes and disagree other times. It seems like the line in the sand is drawn you have to pick a side and start shouting and ignore facts if those facts favour a person you dislike. It's not about the right argument it's about the right person saying it".

 

I read through the comments and found this of interest, in particular.

U.S. and Uzbeks Agree on Chemical Arms Plant Cleanup mentions this in post 84.

The article was written in 1999 and some how turned up in this thread.

 

Last night what I thought was a friend  made a comment to me in front of  several friends,he said"America and Britain was responsible for the chemical agent attack on the 2 spies". My first reaction was disgust and denial and wanting to defend my country and my honor especially from what was  perceived as a verbal slap in the face. I held back looked at everyone's face ,in the silence, I  tried to look not offended and changed the subject.

 

I learned  something today ,yes still learning after 65 years! News,Media and what could be perceived as a friend/acquaintance is all up in the air in this day and age of fake news. To try and link the west and spin this our fault is ridiculous !!

 

don't get  angry with your friend its hard to work out whats real and what is not now we live in a world where a crackpot blogger can write up some nonsense on a website and it look exactly  the same as something written by a expert.

Troll post and reply removed.

 

On 17/03/2018 at 12:35 AM, juice777 said:

Saying we should tread carefully so it don't escalate to war is fine. Saying a nerve gas attack is not enough to fuss over is another thing. Would you be saying the same if the attack was from Muslim country probley not after reading your last post. And if you consider foreign languages a biger Threat then a nerve gas attack then I would suggest you are the insecure one.
 

I am being being rational. It's a matter of degree. The chances of innocent British people being killed or maimed by childish Russian spygames on the streets of Britain is infinitely less (because so far no British person has ever been killed or maimed) than the chances of being injured of killed by the daily activities of immigrants and their cultural sensitivities which often reflects genuine hostility.

 

I am far less worried about the almost-farcical use of nerve agent on British soil (which was done for deliberate dramatic effect to deter future Russian spy defections - it's just thugs working their issues out on each other) than about the very real danger of increased global tension by unnecessarily escalating this issue, and into which direction your pique precipitates us all. Consider that WWI was caused not by the assassination of one individual in Sarajevo (who cares about that now?) but the pride-based escalation that resulted. Human nature never learns. Never, ever, act according to pique.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/investigators-from-chemical-weapons-watchdog-to-arrive-in-uk

Off-topic post and reply removed.

 

I am being being rational. It's a matter of degree. The chances of innocent British people being killed or maimed by childish Russian spygames on the streets of Britain is infinitely less (because so far no British person has ever been killed or maimed) than the chances of being injured or killed by the daily activities of immigrants and their cultural sensitivities which often reflects genuine hostility.

 

I am far less worried about the almost-farcical use of nerve agent on British soil (which was done for deliberate dramatic effect to deter future Russian spy defections - it's just thugs working their issues out on each other) than about the very real danger of increased global tension by unnecessarily escalating this issue, and into which direction your pique precipitates us all. Consider that WWI was caused not by the assassination of one individual in Sarajevo (who cares about that now?) but the pride-based escalation that resulted. Human nature never learns. Never, ever, act according to pique.

This is not something a rational person would say

 

" I am being being rational. It's a matter of degree. The chances of innocent British people being killed or maimed by childish Russian spygames on the streets of Britain is infinitely less (because so far no British person has ever been killed or maimed) than the chances of being injured or killed by the daily activities of immigrants and their cultural sensitivities which often reflects genuine hostility."

 

Because a rational person would know that you have no more chance of getting killed by an immigrant than a British citizen so it is far from rational.

 

I agree with you that caution should be taken so it doesn't escalate to war, but saying you are more worried about immigrants and the nerve gas attack is not enough to fuss about doesn't sound like that.it sounds like a normal racist comment.

 

Plus there is the fact that they are suspected in the deaths of 14 people on British soil and some of them were British citizens

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/russia-uk-deaths-british-police-investigation-state-involvement-putin-latest-news-a8253336.html

 

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4 hours ago, juice777 said:

Because a rational person would know that you have no more chance of getting killed by an immigrant than a British citizen so it is far from rational.

Crime correlates with low socio-economic status which correlates with immigrants. I think that's rational. It's also empirical. I have lived in South London and seen it - it's dangerous - you don't want to go out at night. Danger doesn't correlate with Russian spies playing their silly games once in a while. Alright, a scintilla of danger, if by freak chance you happen to get some nerve agent on your hand in a washroom, but that's not intentional, and it's not enough to whip up international tension and instability.

[to the mods: this discussion is about relative assessments of danger. It is germane.]

 

Not to suggest actual conflict will arise out of this - it's just too ridiculous - but other countries may join in the fracas and there could be a significant ratcheting up of global tension - and tension breeds tension - and then who knows.

 

Nor am I saying it should be ignored completely. A bit of remonstration is appropriate. What we are seeing is far too much media-generated hysteria.

From Boris today:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/salisbury-attack-foreign-secretarys-remarks-to-media-at-the-march-2018-foreign-affairs-council

14 minutes ago, evadgib said:

From Boris today:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/salisbury-attack-foreign-secretarys-remarks-to-media-at-the-march-2018-foreign-affairs-council

 

Actually, Boris is wrong in claiming that "Britain is acting [with] punctilious accordance with our obligations under the Treaty on Chemical Weapons". The treaty states that the accusing country is supposed to give the accused country ten days to respond. The UK gave Russia twenty four hours. Also, Boris claims that Russia has been stockpiling nerve agents over the last ten years. But it's the duty of the UK, under the treaty, to report this information to the OPCW, which it didn't. So we can deduce that, either the UK has been illegally withholding this information from the OPCW for no logical reason, or that Boris, er, just made it up.

I don't think Boris is the pillock he'd have us believe