800K Baht Ruling - Condo Owner

[factseeker]

The basics are - wife and I are Non Thai - Retirement Visas for last 5 years - both have Bank Accounts here (needed for Visa).

All funds held in Thailand arrive via Intl Trnsfr - proof exists of outside source of funds (Pensions) since inception.

We are considering buying a 'Freehold' Condo.

I have been told that such a purchase has to use funds sourced from outside Thailand.

 

1.  However it has now been suggested that I cannot use those funds already in Thailand even though they originated from outside.

 

    Anybody any experience of this situation?

 

2.  For Visa 800K Baht has to be held in Thailand or a certain income - I am aware of the  rules.
     I think I read at one time that the purchase value of the Condo 'investment' could be used for the  Retirement 800K Baht Visa ruling as opposed to funds in Bank Account.

 

    Anybody any experience of this situation?

 

Hoping for comments.
Best Rgds.

Edited March 18, 2018 by factseeker

[ubonjoe]

1. It does have to come from outside the country. I think the problem with the 800k baht you have here already is getting the required proof it came from abroad.

Question about that issue should be asked in this forum where there is pinned topic about transferring the funds into the country for a property purchase. https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/59-real-estate-housing-house-and-land-ownership/

2. Owning a condo does not exempt you from 800k baht in the bank requirement to apply for your extensions.

You can use a condo purchase to qualify for an extension based upon investing a total of 10 million baht (condo and money in the bank or government bonds).

[allane]

1. The B 800,000 has to be "immediately available". Equity in a condo. clearly is not.

2. You can buy a condo. with money that you already have in Thailand, but with one very big "but":  If you eventually will want to take the proceeds of selling that condo. out of Thailand, the money that was used to buy it has to have been earmarked for the condo. purchase at the time it was brought in to Thailand.

[factseeker]

46 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. It does have to come from outside the country. I think the problem with the 800k baht you have here already is getting the required proof it came from abroad.

Question about that issue should be asked in this forum where there is pinned topic about transferring the funds into the country for a property purchase. https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/59-real-estate-housing-house-and-land-ownership/

2. Owning a condo does not exempt you from 800k baht in the bank requirement to apply for your extensions.

You can use a condo purchase to qualify for an extension based upon investing a total of 10 million baht (condo and money in the bank or government bonds).

HI ubunjoe ,

 

I have since I came here scrupiously recorded every penny/cent coming in with Bank paperwork etc - in fact they have now introduced an email service for receiving an attachment each month as pensions arrive - that has just started up - very good.

 

So I can prove source of all with bank paperwork - in fact more than I have in bank right now which is somewhat above the necessary level for visa.

 

But from what I now understand - doubtful I can use that.

 

All a bit silly - but  I can just stop my pension to here until I run down to just the level  800 Baht level and bring in what I need from outside for the Condo.

 

But thnxs for info and link - much appreciated.

 

Best Rgds.

[factseeker]

50 minutes ago, allane said:

1. The B 800,000 has to be "immediately available". Equity in a condo. clearly is not.

2. You can buy a condo. with money that you already have in Thailand, but with one very big "but":  If you eventually will want to take the proceeds of selling that condo. out of Thailand, the money that was used to buy it has to have been earmarked for the condo. purchase at the time it was brought in to Thailand.

Hi Alane,

 

Thnxs for your time.

 

Please see reply to ubunjoe.

 

Best Rgds.

[BobBKK]

Cannot use the 800k as a condo purchase for the visa. It's straight forward.

[safarimike11]

(factseeker)

1. You need proof of transfer of funds in - which means when you transfer the money in, you need to write "for condo purchase" on the bank transfer. If you have proof of this - even the previous transfer - (and you haven't already used it to purchase a condo), it is still valid. You need to provide the letter to the bank to get the cheque and you will get a form to fill in which the Land Office requires.

2. As far as I know - and you can check the Immigration website - you need 800k baht to have been in an account for (one month initially and) 3 months every year thereafter for your retirement visa/retirement extension on a Non B visa. (800k baht in an account - as stated - or 80k per month pension, verified by the embassy of a mixture of the bank deposit and the pension, e.g. 400k baht bank deposit and 40k per month pension. I have never heard (and don't foresee) of anything like the condo itself being recognized as collateral.

[tagalong]

I would never buy a condo..WHY?  Thai neighbors make noise ALL the time anywhere...I av always rented because of this n when  "I do not care neighbors" come along I av moved easily...Also, with buying u r at the mercy of the condo controllers at all times..

Renting allows u to move whenever with no worry of money....I av done this for 20 years...Cheers..

[Suradit69]

14 minutes ago, tagalong said:

I would never buy a condo..WHY?  Thai neighbors make noise ALL the time anywhere...I av always rented because of this n when  "I do not care neighbors" come along I av moved easily...Also, with buying u r at the mercy of the condo controllers at all times..

Renting allows u to move whenever with no worry of money....I av done this for 20 years...Cheers..

I have a fair number of Thai neighbors, none of whom is noisy. Have been here for nearly as many years as you. 

Possibly the problem is that you're renting condos ( or bed-sits) with a high proportion of short term renters compared to resident owners and you've sought out buildings that suit low budget renters, both farang and Thai.

 

23 minutes ago, tagalong said:

Renting allows u to move whenever with no worry of money

Paying rent for that long would have amounted to more than the price of the condo. And when I die my heir will be able to sell the condo. Even if it's sold for less than what I paid (other units in my building have recently sold for more), it will still be more than a rented condo would be worth to ones heirs when the renter dies.

 

Even taking the example of a low end rental of Baht 10,000 a month for 20 years, you'd have spent   10,000 x 12 x 20 = Baht 2,400,000 and have nothing to show for it other than some receipts.

 

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, safarimike11 said:

2. As far as I know - and you can check the Immigration website - you need 800k baht to have been in an account for (one month initially and) 3 months every year thereafter for your retirement visa/retirement extension on a Non B visa. (800k baht in an account - as stated - or 80k per month pension, verified by the embassy of a mixture of the bank deposit and the pension

Unless it's changed (and I don't know about it, in which case please put me right) the initial amount of 800K needs to be invested for two months and thereafter three months at a time.

 

And the monthly income has to be shown at a minimum of 65K...........

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bruce404]

Just having statements or notices from one's bank indicating that your inbound transfers of funds are sufficient to buy your condo may not be enough to satisfy the government land office to approve transfer of ownership of a foreign-owner-permitted condo to you.

 

You may need to have a formal Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (FETF), a Bank of Thailand document, prepared, signed, and rubber-stamped with its seal by your bank. 

 

It may only state the required "PURPOSE: for condo purchase" if the overseas bank initiating the transfer puts that instruction into the SWIFT message to the Thai Bank.

 

For example  Siam Commercial Bank's inward transfer office in Bangkok will prepare this form routinely for transfers of US $50,000 or more, and usually call the customer to advise receipt of such funds.

 

But if one brings in one or more tranches of less than this amount, one will have to go into a branch and request the manager to contact Bangkok for instructions how to prepare and issue the FETF. 

 

Most bank staff will have no idea what the FETF is, so patient explanation and bringing in an online-downloaded blank FETF may help, as well as asking them to call SCB BKK Inward Transfer for guidance (+66 2.256.1848, +66.2.128.1000).

 

Be sure to insist on getting a fully-stamped and signed duplicate/original from the bank, and not just a xerox copy, in case the land office is a stickler about having an original.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Bruce404
Additional info

[Sumarianson]

The proof that the funds came from abroad is held by your bank. You can ask for statements going back several years. The bank just needs to provide a letter now saying that the funds came from abroad, an FET is no longer required. The main reason for this is so that if you sell and try to repatriate the funds you have proof that they came from abroad.
The bank may charge you up to 500B for supplying the back statements (if you dont have them yourself or the book entries) The Bangkok Bank will do this no problem.
If you intend to pay for the condo from existing funds in your bank then it has to be clarified that the funds came from abroad. Normally you would send the money and state that it was for a condo purchase on the transfer. However proof that the funds came from abroad should be enough as it is your bank you have to convince, noone else.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sumarianson]

Unless it's changed (and I don't know about it, in which case please put me right) the initial amount of 800K needs to be invested for two months and thereafter three months at a time.
 
And the monthly income has to be shown at a minimum of 65K...........
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct. However it is 800K or 65k not both.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Eaglekott]

3 hours ago, tagalong said:

I would never buy a condo..WHY?  Thai neighbors make noise ALL the time anywhere...I av always rented because of this n when  "I do not care neighbors" come along I av moved easily...Also, with buying u r at the mercy of the condo controllers at all times..

Renting allows u to move whenever with no worry of money....I av done this for 20 years...Cheers..

I regeret I did NOT purchase the condo I live in now, After 6 years in the same Condo I could have payed everything off already, and the prices has gone up in the building with over a million Baht. If I wanted to move I could rent it out for over 20k each month to finance another living instead of selling it.  Have never had any problems with noisy neighbours except for a few months when some Condo owners rented their out short time through AirBnB. And even during that time it was not so bad.

[xylophone]

23 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Correct. However it is 800K or 65k not both.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yeah, that's what I was meaning........sorry it wasn't clear!

[HampiK]

5 hours ago, tagalong said:

I would never buy a condo..WHY?  Thai neighbors make noise ALL the time anywhere...I av always rented because of this n when  "I do not care neighbors" come along I av moved easily...Also, with buying u r at the mercy of the condo controllers at all times..

Renting allows u to move whenever with no worry of money....I av done this for 20 years...Cheers..

I think this depends in which price range you stay. When you rent condos for 2'000-5'000 baht per month yes there is a bigger change for noisy neighbours.
If you are in a better condo area (buildings) I would say to have noisy neighbours is almost not possible. Because the other owners would complain as well. And mostly the loud ones are low life. Sorry

[nickmondo]

i think you are mad wanting to buy a property here.

just rent.

its a lot safer, easier, and you dont have all the nightmares associated when purchasing.

And if you ever want to sell it and get your money out of Thailand........good luck with that mate.

[nickmondo]

reality check mate!  you get noise from neighbours in EVERY Condo.

budget or multi million.

it is impossible to stop it due to the noise travelling through the construction of the building.

I have numerous articles on this.

I wanted to soundproof my apartment in Spain, but I would have had to build an apartment within an apartment.

ridiculous.

dont buy

 

[galt67]

1 hour ago, nickmondo said:

reality check mate!  you get noise from neighbours in EVERY Condo.

budget or multi million.

it is impossible to stop it due to the noise travelling through the construction of the building.

I have numerous articles on this.

I wanted to soundproof my apartment in Spain, but I would have had to build an apartment within an apartment.

ridiculous.

dont buy

 

4

'Every'? 'Impossible'?

 

Having HAPPILY owned a condo for the past six years in Thailand, your description is inaccurate.

 

And I'm VERY sensitive to 'noise' thus avoid living in noisy environments.

[stud858]

10 hours ago, safarimike11 said:

(factseeker)

1. You need proof of transfer of funds in - which means when you transfer the money in, you need to write "for condo purchase" on the bank transfer. If you have proof of this - even the previous transfer - (and you haven't already used it to purchase a condo), it is still valid. You need to provide the letter to the bank to get the cheque and you will get a form to fill in which the Land Office requires.

2. As far as I know - and you can check the Immigration website - you need 800k baht to have been in an account for (one month initially and) 3 months every year thereafter for your retirement visa/retirement extension on a Non B visa. (800k baht in an account - as stated - or 80k per month pension, verified by the embassy of a mixture of the bank deposit and the pension, e.g. 400k baht bank deposit and 40k per month pension. I have never heard (and don't foresee) of anything like the condo itself being recognized as collateral.

Having to use reference "for condo purchase" was not needed at Krungsri bank when i helped friend.  Reference used was "savings "for condo purchase. This was a while ago. Is there a new rule or the usual rule of anything is possible on the day still stands?

[Wake Up]

A lot of smart guys I know bought their condo and a lot of smart guys I know rent. Personal decision. I rent because I don’t know where I want to live 12 months from now and renting is easy for me and I don’t care about dying and leaving a condo to my relatives. I also don’t want the hassle of trying to sell a condo when I am ready to go to Swampy with my suitcase and try another country. But I have never rented a condo that I could have bought for less than 20 years of rent and the joys of no maintenance costs and freedom outweigh any potiential gain or loss to me. Peace. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Wake Up

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, Wake Up said:

I have never rented a condo that I could have bought for less than 20 years of rent

This is my experience.  It would be different if condo prices were rising quickly, but with immigration reducing the independent under-50s, condo rentals on one-year contracts have been cheaper for me every year for several years ongoing.

 

13 hours ago, nickmondo said:

you get noise from neighbours in EVERY Condo.

budget or multi million.

Yes, inevitably at least one neighbor "re-tiles" or does major renovations while I live at a condo.  A condo-structure's steel and concrete is like a big drum - so a hammer-drill or chisel "rings" through many floors and units in all directions.  This can make your unit "un-inhabitable" during the day for weeks at a time, since they inevitably hire one guy (who takes his sweet-time - paid by the day? - hammering every minute or so, from 10AM to 5PM), instead of a team of 4 completing the work in a few days. 

 

Still, this beats soi-dogs and/or loud bars all night, like many apartments - so at least I could sleep at night, and not go stark raving mad.

[safarimike11]

On 3/19/2018 at 11:08 AM, xylophone said:

Unless it's changed (and I don't know about it, in which case please put me right) the initial amount of 800K needs to be invested for two months and thereafter three months at a time.

 

And the monthly income has to be shown at a minimum of 65K...........

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes: 2 months initially.

[safarimike11]

(Related subject) Residency Certificate: When you go for a Residency Certificate, they ask you - on the form - to say what you need it for, e.g. to open a bank account, buy a car etc. I would just like to remind readers that this does not mean that you need to buy multiple Residency Certificates, i.e. one "to open a bank account" and another Residency Certificate "to buy a car"; they are all the same and all you need to do is to get ONE RESIDENCY CERTIFICATE and photocopy it as many times as you need to - but make sure it is a good quality colour copy (20 baht at a professional print shop) or with a decent printer/copier. Why am I on about this? Because when I got mine, the guy in front of me told them he needed 3... one for this, one for that etc. I could have said something but decided against it - being as he seemed to be absolutely ****ing full of himself.

[HampiK]

9 hours ago, safarimike11 said:

(Related subject) Residency Certificate: When you go for a Residency Certificate, they ask you - on the form - to say what you need it for, e.g. to open a bank account, buy a car etc. I would just like to remind readers that this does not mean that you need to buy multiple Residency Certificates, i.e. one "to open a bank account" and another Residency Certificate "to buy a car"; they are all the same and all you need to do is to get ONE RESIDENCY CERTIFICATE and photocopy it as many times as you need to - but make sure it is a good quality colour copy (20 baht at a professional print shop) or with a decent printer/copier. Why am I on about this? Because when I got mine, the guy in front of me told them he needed 3... one for this, one for that etc. I could have said something but decided against it - being as he seemed to be absolutely ****ing full of himself.

Yes and no. This only works if you need this for the same time, as for your example.

 

But when you need one today and the next one in 4 months, then you have to go for a new one again. I am not sure how long you can use the same as I think after maybe 3 months it will not be valid anymore. 

Maybe someone who knows about this will give an answer.

Till now I not needed a Residency Certificate and hope that I never need one… we will see how lucky I will be in future

[BobBKK]

On 3/19/2018 at 4:22 PM, nickmondo said:

i think you are mad wanting to buy a property here.

just rent.

its a lot safer, easier, and you dont have all the nightmares associated when purchasing.

And if you ever want to sell it and get your money out of Thailand........good luck with that mate.

 

Not sure where you get your 'information' I have purchased , rented out and sold over 20 condos in BKK, Pattaya and Chiang Mai and your 'advice' is nonsense. I have made a consistent 8/9% RoI and, while the market HAS changed, to advise against purchasing after due diligence is just silly bar-like talk with no foundation in reality. Potential purchasers just need to research as they would in farangland. Any losses I made were purely from my own mistakes but I have made far greater gains than losses over the last decade. 

 

No nightmares for me just sweet dreams and rake in the 8/9%. Do the Math it it takes 20 years to break even rent-for-purchase I wouldn't do it and, as things have changed, buying for rentals is more challenging now than 10 years ago. Buying to live?  if you are settled and know the location you want to live go for it.

[onera1961]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:54 PM, Suradit69 said:

Even taking the example of a low end rental of Baht 10,000 a month for 20 years, you'd have spent   10,000 x 12 x 20 = Baht 2,400,000 and have nothing to show for it other than some receipts.

Historic S&P 500 return over  a period of 20 years is 10%. Of course, your real estate asset may also appreciate. If you're able to get a mortgage it may be a good option but I would still prefer renting. I find it hassle free. gives me more freedom to move around if I don't like it in one one place