Health ministry blames irresponsible owners of cats and dogs for the spread of rabies

[dieter1]

I do not read all , sorry...

 

in my home country , they way they do is affective and even acceptable for "dog-lovers":

 

- zero tolerance for wild dogs: if there is is a dog without owner ,it will be caught.

- it is illegal to feed wild dogs and cats (living outside ).

It is even not necessary to kill them, cause they do not catch that many. They have them in animal-shelters and they try to find new dog-owners for them.

thats it, quite easy

 

ok, here in Thailand , one need to cull first all of them (1-2 million, because <,I think , there are way too many for shelters)

and you need to get nearly every dog away from the streets. not just 80%, even 90 % would not be enough.

Do not tell me, you can sterilize all of them. this will be impossible. And vaccination them will even not work because I think for rabbis, one vaccination is not enough, you have to repeat it (thats what you need to do if you are a human being)

I think  vaccination and sterilizing will not work for 100 (or nearly 100%) so there will be not real success.

[dieter1]

oh not to forget:

you need to do this in a very short time everywhere, at least you need to do it like a bulldozer throughout the country because if there is a chance, that there are dogs left, going to areas  where you culled all the dogs before, they will do it!

[Airbagwill]

11 minutes ago, dieter1 said:

I do not read all , sorry...

 

in my home country , they way they do is affective and even acceptable for "dog-lovers":

 

- zero tolerance for wild dogs: if there is is a dog without owner ,it will be caught.

- it is illegal to feed wild dogs and cats (living outside ).

It is even not necessary to kill them, cause they do not catch that many. They have them in animal-shelters and they try to find new dog-owners for them.

thats it, quite easy

 

ok, here in Thailand , one need to cull first all of them (1-2 million, because <,I think , there are way too many for shelters)

and you need to get nearly every dog away from the streets. not just 80%, even 90 % would not be enough.

Do not tell me, you can sterilize all of them. this will be impossible. And vaccination them will even not work because I think for rabbis, one vaccination is not enough, you have to repeat it (thats what you need to do if you are a human being)

I think  vaccination and sterilizing will not work for 100 (or nearly 100%) so there will be not real success.

One vaccination is sufficient....once you achieve about 70% of the population that creates herd immunity.

80% neutering will reduce the population.There are about 10 million dogs in Thailand you have to decide which are owned, community or stray.

To work owned dogs have to be included in the scheme.

Treated dogs need to be released back into the community for the scheme to be effective.

A 7 year scheme costing 550 million baht was offered to BMA by the Soi dog foundation to solve the problem in Bkk at no cost to Bkk...it was turned down. There are between 300,000 and 700,000 free roaming dogs in Bkk.

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Airbagwill

[dieter1]

ok. thanks for the information

I would guess, of these 10 millions, 6/7millions are what I would call street dogs".

the need of neutering 80 % of 10 millions. this  will not work out.

Just because they will not stop procreating, till you reach that number   (80%). and you cant stop when you reach 80%

just to make this discussion realistic: was neutering aiming 80% of the population anywhere be successful in the world with a population of 10 million dogs? I dont think so.

and get to the 70% vaccinations (7 million dogs )to get herd immunity ? sounds surreal

[Airbagwill]

18 minutes ago, dieter1 said:

ok. thanks for the information

I would guess, of these 10 millions, 6/7millions are what I would call street dogs".

the need of neutering 80 % of 10 millions. this  will not work out.

Just because they will not stop procreating, till you reach that number   (80%). and you cant stop when you reach 80%

just to make this discussion realistic: was neutering aiming 80% of the population anywhere be successful in the world with a population of 10 million dogs? I dont think so.

and get to the 70% vaccinations (7 million dogs )to get herd immunity ? sounds surreal

Your guess is probably wrong the number apparently is estimated as "running into millions" but not that high a proportion that you suggest.

The problem is that many of these ddogs May have a different status. In general they are free roaming but may be owned, community or stray.

Soi dog foundation claims success on Phuket with a vaccination program.

Movement of dogs is the main problem with rabies and this can happen with owned dogs.

There are 2 interlinked problems, one is the size of the population the other is the spread of rabies.

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, dieter1 said:

oh not to forget:

you need to do this in a very short time everywhere, at least you need to do it like a bulldozer throughout the country because if there is a chance, that there are dogs left, going to areas  where you culled all the dogs before, they will do it!

Your strategy  is lifted from 1942 and was last employed in Eastern Europe. We all know how that worked out.  It is unacceptable and to be blunt, I do not care about how it works in your homeland. The environment and circumstances in Thailand are significantly different than your homeland. This means that the response must be adapted for Thai circumstances. That is what the MOH  recommended and has been trying to do for some time. People do not listen and heed the. advice, the same as people do not listen to  stop smoking.

[sandyf]

It is fairly obvious that most on here think that nothing is being done or has ever been done. Stray dogs did used to be culled until the western do gooders stuck their noses in and brought the international media into play, the government ended up between a rock and a hard place.

I wouldn't disagree that they could have been a bit quicker in coming up with other measures but I sense there was some defiance to the media intervention.

The important thing is that action is now being taken, how effective, only time will tell. The government vet team came to our house last Saturday, they are working round the area trying to vaccinate all the animals they can. My wife said he shouldn't waste his vaccine on ours as they have all been vaccinated and doctored at our own expense, we have 9 dogs and over 40 cats. My wife and her sister have created a sanctuary for unwanted animals, the morning the vet came a neighbour had brought us a dog saying she could no longer afford to feed it.

The vet said it was part of the program and he would need to do them irrespective. It was fairly late in the day and he did the dogs and got half way through the cats before running out of vaccine, supposed to come back this week to finish the cats so wait and see how that pans out.

People shouldn't be so quick to make unsubstantiated accusations.

 

[jak2002003]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Your strategy  is lifted from 1942 and was last employed in Eastern Europe. We all know how that worked out.  It is unacceptable and to be blunt, I do not care about how it works in your homeland. The environment and circumstances in Thailand are significantly different than your homeland. This means that the response must be adapted for Thai circumstances. That is what the MOH  recommended and has been trying to do for some time. People do not listen and heed the. advice, the same as people do not listen to  stop smoking.

So you recommendation will never work if you are saying no one will ever listen / implement it.  

 

And what are you saying about 1942?  Are you comparing culling diseased dangerous feral dogs to killing human beings in the war?  I hope not.

 

 

[Cake Monster]

I am all for the eradication of diseased and sick animals for the control of the Rabies outbreak.

 

However, it has to be done in a humane manner, and the use of BB guns would not be a humane method of control.

[impulse]

On 3/19/2018 at 2:55 PM, PatOngo said:

On 3/19/2018 at 2:51 PM, webfact said:

The Ministry of Public Health yesterday blamed the spread of rabies in the country on irresponsible pet owners and called on the state to have a law to tax, penalise those who don’t take care but abandon unwanted cats and dogs.

Finally, is that a bit of common sense I detect?

 

Nah.  They've had laws against driving like a crazy man for years.  Doesn't seem to help.  Laws aren't worth the paper they're written on if there is no enforcement, and there will never be enforcement if the cops are too busy supplementing their inadequate incomes (and paying off the debts they incurred buying their positions) to actually enforce the laws.  The system is rotten to the core, and all the laws in the world can't help it.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

I've mentioned this before in other rabies-related discussions but the real-world results of  rabies control programs conducted in various countries all around the world show that the most effective way to control rabies is by conducting mass canine vaccination campaigns.

 

As the summary report of the rabies Global Conference, held in Geneva, Switzerland on 10-11 December, 2015, states:

Quote

Unlike for many other [animal-borne diseases] the appropriate tools to eliminate dog-mediated human rabies already exist. Dog-mediated human rabies can be eliminated at source by vaccinating dogs, in conjunction with dog bite prevention, bite management, raising public awareness and improved access to prompt post-exposure treatment.

Furthermore, as another article on rabies on the WHO website says:

Quote

culling is an ineffective means of elimination and mass vaccination is most efficacious to reduce disease incidence in all species.

It is worth bearing in mind that these statements are not just theoretical ideas, they are based on decades of experience and the results of actual rabies control efforts in many countries where rabies is the most problematic, including countries with large populations of free roaming dogs, such as Bangladesh, Chad, the Philippines and Tanzania. 

 

Even in such countries where there are many practical challenges and obstacles to carrying out mass vaccination of stray dogs, the experience of organisations like the Global Alliance for Rabies Control and Mission Rabies has proved that the 70% target rate of vaccination for the effective reduction of rabies transmissibility is achievable.

 

Incidentally, if there have already been any attempts at vaccination (as there apparently have been in some places in Thailand) culling can actually be counter-productive. As a BMJ article on rabies puts it:

 

Quote

[The] dogs that are easiest to vaccinate are often those that are easiest to cull, and without clear identification of vaccinated dogs, culling of free-roaming dogs can often lead to culling of vaccinated dogs, reducing population immunity and increasing rabies risk.

 

[Keesters]

On 3/19/2018 at 7:51 PM, coulson said:

Soi/ beach dogs never had owners

The owners are those who regularly feed them. It's time for those people to clean up their shit.

 

[Airbagwill]

On 3/19/2018 at 7:51 PM, coulson said:

Soi/ beach dogs never had owners

Situation is not that simple. Soi dog is a farang term used in Thailand to describe free roaming dogs.

Status varies and can be difficult to determine. Some are owned, some are "community" dogs and some are feral.

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Airbagwill

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.  

 

One post edited.  

 

[Orton Rd]

12 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Situation is not that simple. Soi dog is a farang term used in Thailand to describe free roaming dogs.

Status varies and can be difficult to determine. Some are owned, some are "community" dogs and some are feral.

 

But they all need to go whatever you want to label them as- not living in a house should equal being put down

[dieter1]

I dont know, may be vaccination of at least 70 % of the population (feral and domestic dogs) may be successful in limiting the spreading of rabies.

but one needs not to forget the rising number of the population of dogs.

so we are talking about a number of about 1 million stray dogs alone. From my observations, there is no strict distinction between stray and domestic dogs possible. They all in the same area and many so called domestic dogs running around totally unrestricted. At least, the number of the stray dogs has to be limited at the  momentary level. It is already very high. for this, vaccination will not do the trick .

can someone explain, why I have to go to the clinic 4 times to get 4 injections and for dogs, one injection is enough  (aint that fair ...)

[Airbagwill]

11 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

But they all need to go whatever you want to label them as- not living in a house should equal being put down

No cull has ever worked in Asia...youI need to look for another solution

Edited March 23, 2018 by Airbagwill

[greenchair]

There are no substandard vaccines. 

We destroyed them last year. 

Straight from the horses mouth. 

[Airbagwill]

70% vaccination will bring about herd immunity, regardless of the numbers.

80% neutering will result in population decrease.

BMA turned down a massive 7 year program organised by Soi Dog Foundation.

If Thailand addressed the garbage disposal problem not only would it reduce pollution, improve public health, it would also reduce the dog population.

Countries that dispose of garbage responsibly don't have dog population problems.Stray dogs in those countries are reduced to manageable numbers. The numbers of dogs suffering etc is reduced to almost nothing compared to the disgusting states of some of the poor creatures in Thailand