When to say "She" or "Her"

[rott]

Hope somebody here can help, I have had somebody ask the above question and to me it is so automatic and instinctive that I cannot find the words to explain.

 

Any suggestions.??

[Chrisdoc]

Normal sentence structure is subject verb object (eg "the dog eats food"). "She" for the subject, "her" for the object so " She likes her" with "she" as subject and "her" is the object. The exception is "her" is used to show possession eg "her house,her dog" etc.

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[rott]

Thanks for that Chrisdoc, I will see how I get on explaining subject and possession.

 

I appreciate your help.

Edited March 21, 2018 by rott

[Loaded]

48 minutes ago, rott said:

Thanks for that Chrisdoc, I will see how I get on explaining subject and possession.

 

I appreciate your help.

Subject personal pronoun &

 

Possessive adjective.

 

How will you explain it? They are learning the language you will use to explain new language. There are ways however.

 

From your post, I guess you will wing it and then call the students dumb if they don't 'understand'.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Loaded

[Chrisdoc]

Subject personal pronoun &
 
Possessive adjective.
 
How will you explain it? They are learning the language you will use to explain new language. There are ways however.
 
From your post, I guess you will wing it and then call the students dumb if they don't 'understand'.

I guess the student is Thai. Although Thai doesn't have a different word for "her" as an object it still follows the subject verb object pattern (kow gin khao) and has the equivalent for possessive (khong kow) so I cant see a problem.

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[Chrisdoc]

I guess the student is Thai. Although Thai doesn't have a different word for "her" as an object it still follows the subject verb object pattern (kow gin khao) and has the equivalent for possessive (khong kow) so I cant see a problem.

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I left out an explanation of pronouns so as not to complicate things.

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[samsensam]

 

personal pronoun and possessive adjective; non of my english speaking thai friends have any difficulty with this basic english grammar.

[Chrisdoc]

 
personal pronoun and possessive adjective; non of my english speaking thai friends have any difficulty with this basic english grammar.

The OP asked for a way of explaining "she" and "her". The next poster mentioned the pronouns. I replied that I thought it would complicate his explanation if I talked about personal and possesive pronouns. I do not see how you can read into my post that I was saying that Thai people can't understand basic English grammar.

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[rott]

Believe it or believe it not but the person asking is an English teacher (well how much do you need to know to  teach conversational English to kids). I think this could be part of Dyslexia.

 

Honest.

[jenny2017]

18 hours ago, rott said:

Thanks for that Chrisdoc, I will see how I get on explaining subject and possession.

 

I appreciate your help.

• He has a camera. The camera belongs to him. It is his camera. The camera is his.
• She has a diamond ring. The diamond ring belongs to her. It is her diamond ring. The diamond ring is hers.
• They have a tea garden. The tea garden belongs to them. It is their tea garden. The tea garden is theirs.
• The forms he, she and they are used when a pronoun is the subject of a sentence.
• The forms him, her and them are used when a pronoun is the object of a sentence.
• The forms his, her, hers, their and theirs are possessive in nature.

Please see: https://www.englishgrammar.org/words-heshe-himher-hishers/

[jenny2017]

18 hours ago, rott said:

Believe it or believe it not but the person asking is an English teacher (well how much do you need to know to  teach conversational English to kids). I think this could be part of Dyslexia.

 

Honest.

Are you saying that a foreign English teacher was asking you this question?

But your claim that it's so automatic and instinctive for you that you can't explain it, doesn't make you into a better person than the English teacher in question. 

BTW, Dyslexia is the general term for disorders that involve difficulty in learning to read or interpret words, letters, and other symbols, but that does not affect general intelligence.

[rott]

Not too sure of your point, but to clarify this is an English person working as an English teacher. The person mentioned a short while ago that they did not understand when to say her and she. I had already noticed this in conversation and put it down either to what appeared to me to be dyslexia or to an extension of a regional dialect/accent. (When somebody repeatedly pronounces Ekamai as Ekkymar I suspect dyslexia).

 

I do not know where you got the impression that I think I am a better person. I am better at English than the majority of people I mix with, but most of them are better at fixing cars and building house extensions than I am.

 

Automatic and instinctive yes, the same as yourself and many people on here. But I could not explain why one way is correct and the other wrong, my schooldays (English "O' Level by the way) are long gone and it is many decades since I have been aware of sentence structure, subject, object, preposition, split-infinitive or whatever.

And I am aware that dyslexia does not reflect low intelligence but thank you for reminding me.

 

Any time you think I am getting above myself and require a digital slap over the head, please feel free. In turn I will politely explain to you again what garbage you are talking.

[Chrisdoc]

• He has a camera. The camera belongs to him. It is his camera. The camera is his.
• She has a diamond ring. The diamond ring belongs to her. It is her diamond ring. The diamond ring is hers.
• They have a tea garden. The tea garden belongs to them. It is their tea garden. The tea garden is theirs.
• The forms he, she and they are used when a pronoun is the subject of a sentence.
• The forms him, her and them are used when a pronoun is the object of a sentence.
• The forms his, her, hers, their and theirs are possessive in nature.

Please see: https://www.englishgrammar.org/words-heshe-himher-hishers/

So why is this any different from what I wrote. She is the subject,her is the object,her is possessive?

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[jenny2017]

46 minutes ago, Chrisdoc said:

So why is this any different from what I wrote. She is the subject,her is the object,her is possessive?

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It was just an example to answer the OP's question.

[jenny2017]

1 hour ago, rott said:

Not too sure of your point, but to clarify this is an English person working as an English teacher. The person mentioned a short while ago that they did not understand when to say her and she. I had already noticed this in conversation and put it down either to what appeared to me to be dyslexia or to an extension of a regional dialect/accent. (When somebody repeatedly pronounces Ekamai as Ekkymar I suspect dyslexia).

 

I do not know where you got the impression that I think I am a better person. I am better at English than the majority of people I mix with, but most of them are better at fixing cars and building house extensions than I am.

 

Automatic and instinctive yes, the same as yourself and many people on here. But I could not explain why one way is correct and the other wrong, my schooldays (English "O' Level by the way) are long gone and it is many decades since I have been aware of sentence structure, subject, object, preposition, split-infinitive or whatever.

And I am aware that dyslexia does not reflect low intelligence but thank you for reminding me.

 

Any time you think I am getting above myself and require a digital slap over the head, please feel free. In turn I will politely explain to you again what garbage you are talking.

Nope, I don't think that you've gotten over yourself and you do not require a digital slap over the head. My point was more about the person who was asking you about the difference. 

 

I'm aware that some people who grow up in an English speaking environment are often not the greatest when it comes to grammar and the explanation of grammar rules. And your example is in my eyes one of the easiest to explain. 

 

IMO, if the English English teacher doesn't know when to use she, or her, the person might have the wrong job, even when he/she's "only" teaching conversational English. No offense to you. 

[Chrisdoc]

Of course. I'm not an English teacher so I forget that the more words and grammatical terms you use the better.

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[rott]

13 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

Nope, I don't think that you've gotten over yourself and you do not require a digital slap over the head. My point was more about the person who was asking you about the difference. 

 

I'm aware that some people who grow up in an English speaking environment are often not the greatest when it comes to grammar and the explanation of grammar rules. And your example is in my eyes one of the easiest to explain. 

 

IMO, if the English English teacher doesn't know when to use she, or her, the person might have the wrong job, even when he/she's "only" teaching conversational English. No offense to you. 

And no offence taken I am sure. Though there was at first and I possibly over-reacted.

 

The wrong job? Well that has occurred to me too,  but there always seem to be people and schools offering employment. Incidentally I am not speaking of myself in the third person, it is a third person I am speaking of. I often wish I had given TEFLing  "a go" ten years ago, if it had worked out I would not mind the extra money, but now I am too old, impatient and grumpy.

 

I have spoken to teachers whose attitude is "I am given a curriculum and lesson plans. I go in and teach. If they do not want to learn that is their business". Is this a common attitude.?

 

Anyway will explain subject, object and possessive over a few pints tonight nd see how it goes down. Thanks to jenny2017 and chrisdoc and others for your input.

[ozmeldo]

As much as this has degenerated into a typical dysfunctional TV teachers thread, it's been a great read. Teachers that care what they are doing +4.

[rott]

Er I am not a teacher (just an old git) but my mate is. And he does take his job very seriously despite not being over-educated and to my mind a touch dyslexic. I presume there are degrees of dyslexia.

 

To give an update, he understands subject/object/possessive but it will take some time to correct the speech habits of decades.

 

Thanks again for the input, I am pleased to see that some have enjoyed the thread.

[pearciderman]

On 3/22/2018 at 5:39 PM, jenny2017 said:

Are you saying that a foreign English teacher was asking you this question?

But your claim that it's so automatic and instinctive for you that you can't explain it, doesn't make you into a better person than the English teacher in question. 

BTW, Dyslexia is the general term for disorders that involve difficulty in learning to read or interpret words, letters, and other symbols, but that does not affect general intelligence.

 Dyslexia affects far more that you have mentioned above.

 

https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/dyslexia/skills-that-can-be-affected-by-dyslexia