15 minutes ago, juice777 said:

 

 

They don't care as long as they can claim a victory with Blue passports what the European Union stopped us having.Oh, no wait we could have changed them back anytime we wanted to because it was only a suggestion by the European Union.

Or at least we will be able to kick out all the foreigners from the European Union claiming benefits for years.Oh no, wait we could have kicked them out if they didn't have a job or capital to support there selfs after 3 months like other European Union countries do, but our politicians chose not to.

But at least public service like The NHS and police force, Schools Etc will be able to cope with fewer immigrants.Oh no wait net migration is down and public services are getting worse and worse all the time.So maybe no connection there after all.

All lies and miss information


How can another VOTE of all things be against democracy if the outcome is different because everyone knows more now and a lot of people have changed there mind?

If its not the will of the people anymore it's not democracy anymore.

Even old Nigel boy wanted another vote if it was 52-48.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

 

I'm not going to accuse you of lies and misinformation because it's obvious that you genuinely buy into the lies and misinformation that you parrot. But I will point out to you that we still have nett migration into the UK, and it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here. There are actually fifty percent more here than we were previously told. And that's why the NHS, police, schools, roads, housing and every other part of our infrastructure are struggling to cope. Our country is over-full, as anybody who lives here can confirm.

 
I'm not going to accuse you of lies and misinformation because it's obvious that you genuinely buy into the lies and misinformation that you parrot. But I will point out to you that we still have nett migration into the UK, and it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here. There is actually fifty percent more here than we were previously told. And that's why the NHS, police, schools, roads, housing and every other part of our infrastructure are struggling to cope. Our country is over-full, as anybody who lives here can confirm.

" and it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here"

Care to post a link or something I can't find anything on google about it.And I am sure it would be all over the news if it was true.

You don't think it has more to do with Government Cutbacks then?

Just a thought

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

On 29/03/2018 at 12:54 PM, Grouse said:

Why are so many of our east coast seaside resorts stuffed with morons? We should be told.

Here you go again with your usual condescending attitude to anyone who does not agree with your own viewpoint, now being called morons.

You ought to wake up and realise that whether you like it or not, the UK is leaving the EU and many people voted to do so fully realising that it might not automatically mean more money in their pockets, since for many people money is not God, as it certainly appears to be for you.

18 hours ago, Grouse said:

The OP was about Great Yarmouth in particular. My comment concerning the higher than average concentration of morons in East coast seaside towns is entirely relevant and is, of course, why Reuters went there rather than Cambridge, say. I am sure you have noted that UKIP tended to get the greatest support in these areas. I would like to know why?

 

Did you look at the photograph accompanying the OP? Look at all the badges? What kind of people are into that in the twenty first century? Do they have stalls like that where you take vacations?

 

My comment stands, as does my query.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11539388/Mapped-where-is-Ukips-support-strongest-Where-there-are-no-immigrants.html

 

The map on the right shows UKIP penetration

 

The map on the left shows level of immigrants

 

 

 

And finally, from the OP :-

 

"Great Yarmouth has the country's lowest percentage of college graduates -- 14.2 percent -- and a high rate of unemployment."

 

Any more comments? ?

You can present as many statistics as you like, but the fact still remains that you believe anybody who has views on Brexit which differ from your own is a moron and you did not confine your comment to people living only in Great Yarmouth.  You appear to believe that your University education elevates you to a higher status than those not so educated, but it is obvious to many on here that it certainly did not teach you any manners and definitely no humility. A discussion with you face to face must be an absolute nightmare, somewhat akin to a monologue with a smattering of abuse thrown in for good measure.  My two sons received a similar education to you and, like you, are doing very well in life but, thankfully, they display none of the arrogance which permeates throughout most of your postings.

16 hours ago, juice777 said:

 

 

" and it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here"

Care to post a link or something I can't find anything on google about it.And I am sure it would be all over the news if it was true.

You don't think it has more to do with Government Cutbacks then?

Just a thought

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

 

Last year, the accepted figure for the number of EU nationals living in the UK was 2.9 million.

 

Michael Barnier stated when announcing the recent draft brexit agreement that the figure is 4.5 million.

 

And government cutbacks haven't made the roads more congested, or made it increasingly difficult to get a doctor's appointment.

Let's turn the UK into one big Great Yarmouth, yeee!

18 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

You can present as many statistics as you like, but the fact still remains that you believe anybody who has views on Brexit which differ from your own is a moron and you did not confine your comment to people living only in Great Yarmouth.  You appear to believe that your University education elevates you to a higher status than those not so educated, but it is obvious to many on here that it certainly did not teach you any manners and definitely no humility. A discussion with you face to face must be an absolute nightmare, somewhat akin to a monologue with a smattering of abuse thrown in for good measure.  My two sons received a similar education to you and, like you, are doing very well in life but, thankfully, they display none of the arrogance which permeates throughout most of your postings.

"The OP was about Great Yarmouth in particular. My comment concerning the higher than average concentration of morons in East coast seaside towns is entirely relevant and is, of course, why Reuters went there rather than Cambridge, say. I am sure you have noted that UKIP tended to get the greatest support in these areas. I would like to know why?"

 

My comment referred to east coast seaside towns and it is a fair point. Why are there so morons in these places?

 

I do not think that all Brexiters are morons. However, from what I have seen, heard and read, morons do seem to be in favour of Brexit. 

 

In fact there are many very bright Brexiters.who have seen a way to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. Nobody could accuse Bamford, Dyson or Rees Mogg of being moronic.

 

My post was a polemic. I make my point robustly.

 

I'm glad your sons got a good education. I'm sure they will indeed do well. 

10 minutes ago, nausea said:

Let's turn the UK into one big Great Yarmouth, yeee!

That already seems to be the trend. ?

To all Brexiteers..think it's best not to get involved in forum discussions with remoaners..they quite obviously cannot accept the fact that they lost the referendum vote.
They would argue black was white.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

To all Brexiteers... think it's best not to get involved in forum discussions with remoaners..they ask difficult questions, make us think about things we'd never thought of before and they try to get us to read newspaper articles containing big words with joined up writing - then they ask us to show them our thinking and that''s really really difficult, I mean, isn't just knowing the answer enough! 

On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 5:33 PM, Khun Han said:

Last year, the accepted figure for the number of EU nationals living in the UK was 2.9 million.

 

Michael Barnier stated when announcing the recent draft brexit agreement that the figure is 4.5 million.

 What Barnier actually said was 

Quote

“That makes it possible today to reassure to the 4.5 million citizens – British and European – who are affected and concerned by Brexit.”

(7by7 emphasis)

That's 2.9 million EU nationals living in the UK and 1.6 million British nationals living in the EU. Which corresponds to all the official statistics, and those quoted in the press and by interested parties such as the anti immigration pressure group Migration Watch, that I have been able to find.

 

Quote taken from this Sunday Express article. Neither the Daily nor the Sunday Express can be described by anyone as pro EU or pro immigration! 

33 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 What Barnier actually said was 

43 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Quote

“That makes it possible today to reassure to the 4.5 million citizens – British and European – who are affected and concerned by Brexit.”

(7by7 emphasis)

That's 2.9 million EU nationals living in the UK and 1.6 million British nationals living in the EU. Which corresponds to all the official statistics, and those quoted in the press and by interested parties such as the anti immigration pressure group Migration Watch, that I have been able to find.

 

Quote taken from this Sunday Express article. Neither the Daily nor the Sunday Express can be described by anyone as pro EU or pro immigration! 

 

I stand corrected. Though it prompted me to do some Googling, and I found this from fullfact.org, which seems to contradict all the currently accepted figures on EU migration to the UK:

 

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-citizens-brexodus/

The problem with the figures used by Full Fact is that, as they say on the page you linked to

Quote

........the available figures aren’t completely clear.......

........These figures aren’t certain: they’re based on a survey of households and that means there’s a margin for error for the figure for each nationality........

and say again on this page

Quote

These figures have a margin for error because they’re mainly based on surveys of passengers at airports. Net migration from the rest of the EU in any one year could usually be around 30,000 more or less than the estimates.

Indeed, in all their articles on this subject they stress that their figures, although obtained from organisations such as the ONS,  are estimates. As EU nationals are not counted into or out of the UK by UK Border Force, then the only figures with any degree of accuracy come from the last census; but as that was 7 years ago they are obviously out of date.

 

But whatever figures one chooses, your earlier assertion that

On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 12:46 AM, Khun Han said:

it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here. There are actually fifty percent more here than we were previously told.

is completely false!

 

You make great play of the UK being, as you put it, full. Blaming that on EU migration.

• Ignoring the fact that at most EU migrants make up just 6% of the UK's population (source: your Full Fact link).
• Ignoring the fact that if the freedom of movement directive had never existed and EU migrants had never come here and British migrants had never gone to other EU countries the population of the UK would, at best,  be around 3% lower than it is now because approximately half as many Brits have emigrated to other EU countries as EU nationals have come to the UK.
•  Ignoring the fact that the third highest nationality of EU immigrants, Irish, would still be here because of the immigration agreements and the common travel area agreement between the UK and RoI; agreements which predate both countries joining the EU (or EEC as it was then).
• Ignoring the fact that most immigrants to the UK are not EU nationals.

 

As someone who voted remain, I can't help but wonder why you and many other Brexiteers are, so long after the referendum, still banging on about the perceived evils of the EU. Particularly as the vast majority of Remainers in the UK, and from what I've read Remainers on this forum, have accepted the result, have accepted that the UK will be leaving the EU next March.

 

It begs the question: who are you trying to convince? Could it be yourself?

 

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The problem with the figures used by Full Fact is that, as they say on the page you linked to

Quote

........the available figures aren’t completely clear.......

........These figures aren’t certain: they’re based on a survey of households and that means there’s a margin for error for the figure for each nationality........

and say again on this page

Quote

These figures have a margin for error because they’re mainly based on surveys of passengers at airports. Net migration from the rest of the EU in any one year could usually be around 30,000 more or less than the estimates.

Indeed, in all their articles on this subject they stress that their figures, although obtained from organisations such as the ONS,  are estimates. As EU nationals are not counted into or out of the UK by UK Border Force, then the only figures with any degree of accuracy come from the last census; but as that was 7 years ago they are obviously out of date.

 

But whatever figures one chooses, your earlier assertion that

On 30/03/2018 at 12:46 AM, Khun Han said:

it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here. There are actually fifty percent more here than we were previously told.

is completely false!

 

You make great play of the UK being, as you put it, full. Blaming that on EU migration.

• Ignoring the fact that at most EU migrants make up just 6% of the UK's population (source: your Full Fact link).
• Ignoring the fact that if the freedom of movement directive had never existed and EU migrants had never come here and British migrants had never gone to other EU countries the population of the UK would, at best,  be around 3% lower than it is now because approximately half as many Brits have emigrated to other EU countries as EU nationals have come to the UK.
•  Ignoring the fact that the third highest nationality of EU immigrants, Irish, would still be here because of the immigration agreements and the common travel area agreement between the UK and RoI; agreements which predate both countries joining the EU (or EEC as it was then).
• Ignoring the fact that most immigrants to the UK are not EU nationals.

 

As someone who voted remain, I can't help but wonder why you and many other Brexiteers are, so long after the referendum, still banging on about the perceived evils of the EU. Particularly as the vast majority of Remainers in the UK, and from what I've read Remainers on this forum, have accepted the result, have accepted that the UK will be leaving the EU next March.

 

It begs the question: who are you trying to convince? Could it be yourself?

First of all, I acknowledged your correction of my error (which I'm pretty sure was down to Barnier being misquoted in the article where I'd read it), and 'liked' your post putting the matter straight. Yet, in your subsequent post quoted above, you chose to re-quote part of my earlier post:

 

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

But whatever figures one chooses, your earlier assertion that

On 30/03/2018 at 12:46 AM, Khun Han said:

it has recently come to light that we were lied to about the number of EU migrants already here. There are actually fifty percent more here than we were previously told.

is completely false!

 

And you wonder why so many of your debates descend into acrimony!

 

So, let me get this right: If fullfact.org thinks that it's figures may be as much as 30,000 out, that means that there were about 3,670,000 EU registered migrants here last year at the lower adjustment, not 2,900,000. And neither of those figures include people choosing to fly under the radar because they are working in the black economy/up to no good, etc.

 

With regard to whether-or-not the country's resources have been stretched over the last decade: well, yes, they have, as anyone who has lived here all their life can see. The notion that congested roads, overloaded doctors' surgeries and hospitals, etc, has no correlation to the rise in the number of people in the UK (in which EU migration has paid a large part) is patently absurd. And such issues certainly aren't down to spending cuts, as some have suggested.

 

As to your last paragraph, we're banging on about the "evils" of the EU because posters such as yourself (despite your claims that you have accepted the referendum result) are still banging on about the evils of brexit. It's called debate. Geddit?

 

And spare me the pathetic attempt at amateur psychology.

 

16 hours ago, Khun Han said:

So, let me get this right: If fullfact.org thinks that it's figures may be as much as 30,000 out, that means that there were about 3,670,000 EU registered migrants here last year at the lower adjustment, not 2,900,000.

You have not got it right. As the quote from Full Fact clearly says,  their estimate of net migration from the EU could be out by as much as 30,000 per year, not 30,000 in total! 

 

Secondly, the official figures only include those EU citizens who have lived in the UK, and those British citizens who have lived in one of the other 27 countries, for at least 12 months. So in reality both sets of figures are almost certainly higher than the official ones; although I note that you have no problem with 1.6 million plus Brits living in other EU states, many of whom are as overcrowded as the UK if not more so, nor the accuracy of that figure!

 

They do not include jobseekers, who can only remain for a maximum of three months unless they find work, nor, of course, tourists. The passenger surveys upon which Full Fact have based their figures do include the former and may also, depending on how the questions are asked, the latter. Plus, of course, for passenger survey figures to be 100% accurate, every single passenger entering the UK would have to not only be surveyed, but they would also have to answer truthfully!

 

16 hours ago, Khun Han said:

And neither of those figures include people choosing to fly under the radar because they are working in the black economy/up to no good, etc.

Neither do the figures for Brits living in one of the other 27 states (or Thailand, come to that!).

 

I see that you have not answered a single one of the other points I raised regarding overcrowding, namely, 

22 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

You make great play of the UK being, as you put it, full. Blaming that on EU migration.

• Ignoring the fact that at most EU migrants make up just 6% of the UK's population (source: your Full Fact link).
• Ignoring the fact that if the freedom of movement directive had never existed and EU migrants had never come here and British migrants had never gone to other EU countries the population of the UK would, at best,  be around 3% lower than it is now because approximately half as many Brits have emigrated to other EU countries as EU nationals have come to the UK.
•  Ignoring the fact that the third highest nationality of EU immigrants, Irish, would still be here because of the immigration agreements and the common travel area agreement between the UK and RoI; agreements which predate both countries joining the EU (or EEC as it was then).
• Ignoring the fact that most immigrants to the UK are not EU nationals.

It seems you want to place the blame for all that is wrong with the UK today firmly on the shoulders of the EU; something not even Farage has ever attempted!

 

And yes, I have accepted the referendum result, and only enter the debate when those who claim to support Brexit make patently false claims in an effort to convince themselves they made the right decision.

43 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

17 hours ago, Khun Han said:

So, let me get this right: If fullfact.org thinks that it's figures may be as much as 30,000 out, that means that there were about 3,670,000 EU registered migrants here last year at the lower adjustment, not 2,900,000.

You have not got it right. As the quote from Full Fact clearly says,  their estimate of net migration from the EU could be out by as much as 30,000 per year, not 30,000 in total! 

 

Secondly, the official figures only include those EU citizens who have lived in the UK, and those British citizens who have lived in one of the other 27 countries, for at least 12 months. So in reality both sets of figures are almost certainly higher than the official ones; although I note that you have no problem with 1.6 million plus Brits living in other EU states, many of whom are as overcrowded as the UK if not more so, nor the accuracy of that figure!

 

They do not include jobseekers, who can only remain for a maximum of three months unless they find work, nor, of course, tourists. The passenger surveys upon which Full Fact have based their figures do include the former and may also, depending on how the questions are asked, the latter. Plus, of course, for passenger survey figures to be 100% accurate, every single passenger entering the UK would have to not only be surveyed, but they would also have to answer truthfully!

 

17 hours ago, Khun Han said:

And neither of those figures include people choosing to fly under the radar because they are working in the black economy/up to no good, etc.

Neither do the figures for Brits living in one of the other 27 states (or Thailand, come to that!).

 

I see that you have not answered a single one of the other points I raised regarding overcrowding, namely, 

On 01/04/2018 at 1:43 PM, 7by7 said:

 

You make great play of the UK being, as you put it, full. Blaming that on EU migration.

• Ignoring the fact that at most EU migrants make up just 6% of the UK's population (source: your Full Fact link).
• Ignoring the fact that if the freedom of movement directive had never existed and EU migrants had never come here and British migrants had never gone to other EU countries the population of the UK would, at best,  be around 3% lower than it is now because approximately half as many Brits have emigrated to other EU countries as EU nationals have come to the UK.
•  Ignoring the fact that the third highest nationality of EU immigrants, Irish, would still be here because of the immigration agreements and the common travel area agreement between the UK and RoI; agreements which predate both countries joining the EU (or EEC as it was then).
• Ignoring the fact that most immigrants to the UK are not EU nationals.

It seems you want to place the blame for all that is wrong with the UK today firmly on the shoulders of the EU; something not even Farage has ever attempted!

 

And yes, I have accepted the referendum result, and only enter the debate when those who claim to support Brexit make patently false claims in an effort to convince themselves they made the right decision.

 

Even if one compounds the margin for error in the most negative way for the whole seventeen years of the survey (which would be a preposterous thing to do), the figure is still considerably higher than 2.9 million.

 

So, job seekers come to look for jobs, and if they don't want to go home after three months, what happens? And people entering to work in the black economy or worse, are ,rather obviously, going to declare themselves as tourists/visiting family or friends and suchlike on arrival. So they're off the radar.

 

What type and quantity of British people are living abroad is pretty-much irrelevant to this discussion, in view of the fact that the vast majority of them are reasonably well-off.

 

I have already answered your attempts to obfuscate the fact that the UK has become over-full in the last ten years (as anyone who has lived here all their lives can see with their own eyes), with a huge number of these new arrivals coming from EU countries. You can come up with as many facts and figures as you want to argue that the UK hasn't become over-full in the last ten years, but everyone going about their day-to-day lives knows that it has. There, I've answered them again.

 

With regard to 'convincing' myself that I've made the right decision, migration has always been at the lower end of importance for me. Getting back sovereignty and avoiding  becoming a part of an EU superstate led by Germany has always been the most important, with getting back full control of our economy being a close second so that we can make economic decisions which are the best for the UK, rather than have the EU making economic decisions for the UK that are the best for the EU (something which will become quite some problem during the next economic downturn).

I'm looking forward to this... man of Norwich but great friend of Great Yarmouth, Alan Partridge is due to return to the TV this spring as "The Voice of Hard Brexit"...

 

http://www.konbini.com/us/entertainment/alan-partridge-bbc-voice-hard-brexit/