Enforcement Of 90 Out Of 180 Days

[baboon]

Ever wondered why the tourist visa has a bad reputation? Because hundreds, if not thousands use them to live and work here, without bothering to pay taxes. I don't think that's Ok, and I'm glad to see Thais take action. If you knew what trouble my company and me go through every year to get me that Non-B visa, you'd know why I think it's a good thing.

Lovely attitude, that. "I have difficulty obtaining my visas, therefore so should everyone else." Bet you are huge fun to have a pint with!

[icecubes]

If you have been here 10 years, you should know by now.

but ten years is a short learning curve

Yawn.

Knowing what you are talking about is very important.

Well maybe not for you.

BTW i have been here 9 years, no need for a long learning curve for me.

[lopburi3]

From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site:

TOURIST VISA EXEMPTION

- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements dated 1 October B.E. 2545 (2002), 20 December B.E. 2545 (2002), 18 October B.E. 2547 (2004) and 6 May B.E. 2548 (2005), passport holders from 40 countries and 1 special administrative region – Hong Kong SAR – are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a period of not exceeding 30 days on each visit. Foreigners who enter the Kingdom under the Tourist Visa Exemption category may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

[keenok]

ill try again ,seeing as the last effort didnt go through is this a popular thread or something??. my point is that there are officials who do not see the new regs as others see them.therefore you are at the mercy of the INDIVIDUAL OFFICER THAT YOU ENCOUNTER.

[Axel]

OK, here it is again, as lopburi3 shows, it's a TOURIST VISA EXEMPTION.

Means one can enter as tourist and is exempted from having a visa.

So let's try to stick to the proper classifications, the more as a visa on arrival actually exists and can be applied by passport-holders from 20 countries for the purpose of tourism for the period of not exceeding 15 days.

So if you ar not from

1. Bhutan : Kingdom of Bhutan

2. China : People’s Republic of China (including Taiwan)

3. Cyprus : Republic of Cyprus

4. Czech : Czech Republic

5. Estonia : Republic of Estonia

6. Hungary : Republic of Hungary

7. India : Republic of India

8. Kazakhstan : Republic of Kazakhstan

9. Latvia : Republic of Latvia

10. Liechtenstein : Principality of Liechtenstein

11. Lithuania : Republic of Lithuania

12. Maldives : Republic of Maldives

13. Mauritius : Republic of Mauritius

14. Oman : Sultanate of Oman

15. Poland : Republic of Poland

16. Russian Federation

17. Saudi Arabia : Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

18. Slovakia : Slovak Republic

19. Slovenia : Republic of Slovenia

20. Ukraine

forget it, you will not get a VOA. You might, however, get a visa-exempted permission, if you are a tourist and come from 1 of the following 40 countries or Hong Kong. Your stay for each entry will be limited to 30 days and not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry. Trust this is clear, and here the 41:

1. Australia : Commonwealth of Australia

2. Austria : Republic of Austria

3. Belgium : Kingdom of Belgium

4. Brazil : Federative Republic of Brazil (****)

5. Bahrain : State of Bahrain

6. Brunei Darussalam : Negara Brunei Darussalam

7. Canada

8. Denmark : Kingdom of Denmark

9. Finland : Republic of Finland

10. France : French Republic

11. Germany : Federal Republic of Germany

12. Greece : Hellenic Republic

13. Hong Kong : Hong Kong Special Administrative Region

14. Iceland : Republic of Iceland

15. Indonesia : Republic of Indonesia

16. Ireland : Republic of Ireland

17. Israel : State of Israel

18. Italy : Republic of Italy

19. Japan

20. Korea : Republic of Korea (****)

21. Kuwait : State of Kuwait

22. Luxembourg : Grand Duchy of Luxembourg

23. Malaysia

24. Netherlands : Kingdom of the Netherlands

25. New Zealand

26. Norway : Kingdom of Norway

27. Oman : Sultanate of Oman

28. Peru : Republic of Peru (****)

29. Philippines : Republic of the Philippines

30. Portugal : Republic of Portugal

31. Qatar : State of Qatar

32. Singapore : Republic of Singapore

33. Spain : Kingdom of Spain

34. South Africa : Republic of South Africa

35. Sweden : Kingdom of Sweden

36. Switzerland : Swiss Confederation

37. Turkey : Republic of Turkey

38. United Arab Emirates

39. United Kingdom : United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

40. United States of America

41. Vietnam : Socialist Republic of Vietnam

Those marked **** get 90 days visa exempted stay.

Check your nationality and you know if it is a 15-days VOA or a 30 days visa exempted stay. Others, not shown, definitely need a visa in advance. Others than tourists regardless of origin do need a visa in any case.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Axel

[keenok]

BABEINTHAILAND

30 day visa on arrival Think you need to understand a bit more about visas

and 30 day permit to stay in Thailand tourist stamps.

Think you got your terminology a bit crossed

Have a nice day.

Look. I've been here nearly 10 years and I still don't know what to call the ###### things! I refer to them as "Visa on Arrival" (VOA) because that sounds reasonable and at least "seemed" to be the accepted convention around here. More recently, I have read posts where people are corrected for using the "VOA" term and told instead something to the effect of "30 day stamp" or "30 day entry permit." Even in Thailand, the thing must have a proper name! (Well, maybe not!

I looked in my passport and the identical entry stamp appears to be used for all entries into the Kingdom regardless of what type of visa you have or don't have. There is a blank line for "Visa class" and on that line (or nearby) they have written the class of my visa depending the occasion: "tourist" or "B" in most cases. In those case where I have entered without a visa, its the same stamp with a Thai character that looks vaguely like an English "W" with a little circle on the top of the left-hand down stroke of the "W", and then ".30". Something like W.30 .

Why is something so basic as to what to call the ###### thing so obscure and controversial???

Aloha,

Rex

youve been here 10 years and its a w with a little circle on top

[rexall]

youve been here 10 years and its a w with a little circle on top

Well,l the only reason that I described it as a "W" with a circle on the top is because I don't read Thai. I don't speak much either.

Do you have a problem with that???

Perhaps you might have chosen to be helpful and explained what it means rather than being a smart ass and taking up bandwith with gratuitous pot shots!

Aloha,

Rex

Edited January 27, 2007 by rexall

[keenok]

youve been here 10 years and its a w with a little circle on top

Well,l the only reason that I described it as a "W" with a circle on the top is because I don't read Thai. I don't speak much either.

Do you have a problem with that???

Perhaps you might have chosen to be helpful and explained what it means rather than being a smart ass and taking up bandwith with gratuitous pot shots!

Aloha,

Rex

i have no idea what the visa classification is ,but the little w with the circle on the top is "por peung". not a cheap shot at all ,just an observation.

[Vodyanoi]

Dear old wanderer,

Please excuse my desire to make this cheap joke on your expense:

"I can not be very simpathetic, as here in the USA I see what a shamble we have be allowing 12 million stupid, uneducated and zenophobic Mexicans invade this country, waving there flag...."

How uneducated are they if they know enough about Zeno to fear him...

A paradox?

Vodyanoi

Linguistic trickster

[8ball]

" youve been here 10 years and its a w with a little circle on top"

Had to laugh at that one!!

[obsession]

I cant understand why they are stopping people from getting unlimited 30 day exemptions unless they are trying to remove permanent tourists. So why would they issue tourist visas indefinately. I think after a year or so of tourist visas they will refuse you as you are obviously living in los and not a tourist. I am postponing buying a condo because of all this crap. And as someone else pointed out, £1000 every 15 months for a trip to the uk for a 1 year visa is expensive and a complete waste of a week.

[mrchips377]

Will the Thai Government consider changing the 90 day rule to speed up immigration queues or to make it easier again for people to keep exiting and immediately returning again and again for long stays in Thailand ?

No, to my mind, I don't think so. I don't think they care tuppence about it. The 90 day rule is good enough to cater for the vast majority of tourists and business visitors and hence for their economy. And the Thai Government doesnt care about how much time consuming procedures they inflict on their own immigration officers. It's an autocratic government system even during those time that they have an alleged democracy.

So let's all get used to it. That's the deal. We get 90 days, otherwise there are the longer term visas.

I guess it's all down to previous abuse of the system by a certain section of farangs who were staying in Thailand for a long long time and who included bar owners, teachers and other odds and sods. It didnt help to keep getting headline stories about paedophiles and other perverts of various sorts over the last 10 years or so. Remember the story about the man (German ?) in the north who was accused of giving AIDS to load of Thai girls. Its all these incidents that have finally made the Thai government tighten up on their procedures. Thats that, so we have to live with it. End of story.

Me, in the last 2 years, I have been working on a project in Tunisia. I arrive in Tunis, I get a 3 month visa. After 2 months I go back to UK for a week, and then come back again for another 3 month visa. I have been doing that almost continuously now for 18 months. No problems here. My company has an office here and I could get a proper work permit, but why bother. The 3 month visa is free. I am only on a project here which should finish later this year, so I am not permanently here. So why is it so easy here ? Because Tunisia doesnt get enough tourists yet and there is not a community of badly behaved farangs here to make the government more difficult to the tourist or business visitor. So here the visa problem is non existent.

Cheers

Chips

[Maestro]

Look. I've been here nearly 10 years and I still don't know what to call the ###### things! I refer to them as "Visa on Arrival" (VOA) because that sounds reasonable and at least "seemed" to be the accepted convention around here. More recently, I have read posts where people are corrected for using the "VOA" term and told instead something to the effect of "30 day stamp" or "30 day entry permit." Even in Thailand, the thing must have a proper name! (Well, maybe not!

Seeing Lopburi’s post #93 above the official name, i.e. the name used by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, is “visa exemption” and the entry into Thailand is called “entry under the Tourist Visa Exemption category”. A bit long, for which reason I personally prefer to use “visa-exempt entry”.

”VOA” has been inappropriately used more frequently since local English language newspapers started using this term following the announcement of the new rules effective October 1, 2006.

You are right that the entry stamp given at the immigration desk is the same, i.e. “admitted <date> until <date>” regardless whether you have a visa in your passport or not. It is the visa, respectively the absence of a visa, that makes a difference in terminology, and it will elicit clearer responses on ThaiVisa if a poster specifies whether and what visa he has or whether he arrived without a visa. Calling two entirely different things – the visa-exempt entry and the Visa on Arrival – by the same name, i.e. VOA, and is bound to create confusion. (It would be like calling both a 25-cent coin and a 10-cent coin a dime)

--

Maestro

[aussiestyle1983]

Will the Thai Government consider changing the 90 day rule to speed up immigration queues or to make it easier again for people to keep exiting and immediately returning again and again for long stays in Thailand ?

No, to my mind, I don't think so. I don't think they care tuppence about it. The 90 day rule is good enough to cater for the vast majority of tourists and business visitors and hence for their economy. And the Thai Government doesnt care about how much time consuming procedures they inflict on their own immigration officers. It's an autocratic government system even during those time that they have an alleged democracy.

So let's all get used to it. That's the deal. We get 90 days, otherwise there are the longer term visas.

I guess it's all down to previous abuse of the system by a certain section of farangs who were staying in Thailand for a long long time and who included bar owners, teachers and other odds and sods. It didnt help to keep getting headline stories about paedophiles and other perverts of various sorts over the last 10 years or so. Remember the story about the man (German ?) in the north who was accused of giving AIDS to load of Thai girls. Its all these incidents that have finally made the Thai government tighten up on their procedures. Thats that, so we have to live with it. End of story.

Me, in the last 2 years, I have been working on a project in Tunisia. I arrive in Tunis, I get a 3 month visa. After 2 months I go back to UK for a week, and then come back again for another 3 month visa. I have been doing that almost continuously now for 18 months. No problems here. My company has an office here and I could get a proper work permit, but why bother. The 3 month visa is free. I am only on a project here which should finish later this year, so I am not permanently here. So why is it so easy here ? Because Tunisia doesnt get enough tourists yet and there is not a community of badly behaved farangs here to make the government more difficult to the tourist or business visitor. So here the visa problem is non existent.

Cheers

Chips

A little birdie told me that this new 90 in 180 day visa entry exempt law will be scrapped in February and things will return to normal so people can continue to do what they had been use to doing in the past, unlimited monthly visa runs. However, this is just a rumor I heard at work, but from a very crediable scourse, so if I get any other news I will inform.

[Maestro]

A little birdie told me that this new 90 in 180 day visa entry exempt law will be scrapped in February

Three cheers to the little birdie!!!

I am not affected by this rule but I am sure that many others – including immigration officers manning the border posts – are praying that this prediction will come true.

--

Maestro

[keenok]

A little birdie told me that this new 90 in 180 day visa entry exempt law will be scrapped in February

Three cheers to the little birdie!!!

I am not affected by this rule but I am sure that many others – including immigration officers manning the border posts – are praying that this prediction will come true.

--

Maestro

yes maestro ,they must be hating this new rule.all that counting instead of just stamping!

[rexall]

Dear old wanderer,

Please excuse my desire to make this cheap joke on your expense:

"I can not be very simpathetic, as here in the USA I see what a shamble we have be allowing 12 million stupid, uneducated and zenophobic Mexicans invade this country, waving there flag...."

How uneducated are they if they know enough about Zeno to fear him...

A paradox?

Vodyanoi

Linguistic trickster

No. I am quite certain that among those 12 million, there surely must be more than two who are doctors!

And besides, everyone knows that if Zeno had his way, those Mexicans would never reach the U.S. border because first they would have to travel half-way, and then half-way of the remaining distance, and then half-way of that . . . Xenophophobia? Hardly, it's just plain old scary!

[mitrapaap]

Just to correct your terminology...

As an Aussie passport holder you are subject to a "Visa Waiver" agreement with Thailand and you get a "Permit" stamp on arrival.

A "Visa on Arrival" is a different thing altogether.

That's what I'm so confused about. Everybody is always talking about Visa on Arrival. I thought there is a bunch of countries that do not need a visa at all and can stay in the Kingdom for 30 days. Most European countries make part of that and get what you exactly call right, a permit stamp. Now somebody tell me whether all this visa on arrival stories are actually talking about this entry without needing a visa or are they really talking about the visa on arrival?

[lopburi3]

Most of the time the people use VOA on this forum they mean entry without visa. Visa on Arrival is a facility for a selected few countries (not allowed visa exempt entry) to obtain a 15 day stay by payment for a visa when they arrive at Immigration border points.

[aussiestyle1983]

A little birdie told me that this new 90 in 180 day visa entry exempt law will be scrapped in February

Three cheers to the little birdie!!!

I am not affected by this rule but I am sure that many others – including immigration officers manning the border posts – are praying that this prediction will come true.

--

Maestro

Hip Hip Horay!

Hip Hip Horay!

Hip Hip Horay!

Im not affected by this rule either, but for those who are, hopefully the little birdie was correct!

[rexall]

And as someone else pointed out, £1000 every 15 months for a trip to the uk for a 1 year visa is expensive and a complete waste of a week.

Well, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, that is exactly why the process "may" be heading toward forcing people to return to their home country to apply for a visa. The more costly and inconvenient it is for people to renew and return, the less will do so. And it can happen overnight; just order the Thai Consulates in SEA to grant a maximum of 3 tourist visas in a calendar year, or whatever. That means less pesky foreigners hanging out in the Kingdom for long periods of time, causing all the problems and social disruptions that they are allegedly causing.

It is obvious that some Thais, and some falang who hang out on this board take great offense at the idea of "resident tourists" or whatever we want to call them. However, reading these threads for months, I have never seen anything to convince me that these people are in anyway a threat to anybody, let alone the Kingdom of Thailand. As to this overblown bugaboo of not paying taxes, I am sure that people picking up some pitiful pocket change working part time, under the table, would not object to paying taxes if there was some mechanism for doing so.

Aloha,

Rex

[daeng1212]

now i really am getting pissed off with the inconsintencies here. i have just been to immigration in jomtien to extend my tourist visa. visa history since october 1st is:

oct 29 enter on 30 day visa exempt at suvarnabhmi

nov27 exit at nong khai (30 days up)

dec 4 enter at nong khai on tourist visa (60 days given,expire on 1 feb)

jan 26 extension at jomtien(30 day extension given to expire on3 mar)

the officer told me he could grant me a further 7 days in case of emergency,otherwise at the end of my extension i will have to leave for 3 months!!!!!. this makes no sense to me at all. theyre making it up as they go along i think.its going to be the same old story ,its going to be up to the INDIVIDUAL you deal with and how they interpret it.

It looks like the official is counting the days you spent in Thailand on the tourist visa as part of the 90 days in 180. That's not right, is it? My understanding was that the 90 in 180 rule (you can be in Thailand for only 90 days in a 180 day period) applies only to the 30-day border stamp extension. Did the official make a mistake? Could it be appealed somewhere? This situation applies to me - and probably to a lot of others. I was in Thailand after Oct. 1 for about 80 days on 30-day border extensions, and then got a tourist visa in Penang in mid-December. My plan is that after the tourist visa is extended and then expires (after 88 days), that I would then get 3 30-day extensions at Maesai before getting my next tourist visa. Will this work?

[koheesti]

I cant understand why they are stopping people from getting unlimited 30 day exemptions unless they are trying to remove permanent tourists. So why would they issue tourist visas indefinately. I think after a year or so of tourist visas they will refuse you as you are obviously living in los and not a tourist.

When you get a VOA they really have no idea who you are. You could be any undesirable lving in their country. When you fill out applications for a Tourist visa, they know who you are and they get fees each time you get a new one every 90 days.

Does that sound right?

[icecubes]

Not to sure what you are saying. This is not a dig at you.

They have very little information about you, when you fill out most visa application forms for Thailand,

Does any thing get checked.

Is there a box to tick if you’re an undesirable. You could be any body.

The only thing they have is an address to check your passport against.

Dosh in the bank. For a different kind of Visa.

Not that hard to sort out if you’re an undesirable.

Its not rocket science you know.

All the undesirables will still get visas and will still be here.

A complete waste of time, in my opinion.

Silly sods.

[Maestro]

When you get a VOA they really have no idea who you are. You could be any undesirable lving in their country. When you fill out applications for a Tourist visa, they know who you are and they get fees each time you get a new one every 90 days.

When you get a VOA (visa on arrival) you fill out an application form after arrival at the airport, get the visa stamped in your passport, then proceed to the immigration desk and get a stamp giving you permission to stay for 15 days. This procedure applies to people from countries who are not entitled to visa-exempt entry but are entitled to the VOA.

--

Maestro

[koheesti]

If I understand correctly, the whole stay 90 days out of every 180 applies only to VOA and not to people who get visas at a local Thai embassy/consulate before arriving in Thailand. If true, how many 90-day tourist visas can you get in one year? When one expires can you go to a neighboring country to get a new one and return?

[JimsKnight]

If I understand correctly, the whole stay 90 days out of every 180 applies only to VOA and not to people who get visas at a local Thai embassy/consulate before arriving in Thailand. If true, how many 90-day tourist visas can you get in one year? When one expires can you go to a neighboring country to get a new one and return?

Yes. You simply return to the consulate outside of Thailand and repeat the process ad nauseaum!

[icecubes]

Your dead right.

It’s great, one more very well conceived idea.

That will teach those naughty falangs a lesson.

You get out and spend some money in a different country.

What are they thinking with this silly rule.

It will be of zero benefit to Thailand and like someone

Pointed out,, it will just be joke at immigration when they start

the rolling count of days.

All the naughty boys will still be here.

[tracer]

Disillusioned... :

But what has this got to do with Mike who was an Australian businessman travels here

once a month and just wants to know the most practical way to end to the country

temporarily ?

I seem to remember that for 10000 baht one can get a 3 year multiple entry but it still doesnt allow you to work...

If you work for a multinational its a solution if you just consider the cost per month at minimum salry for tax and social security an extra tax for doing it and essentially just charge it back in various ways to the Thais...

Also there are these repeated remarks that you cannot use anything to stay here if you are below 50. It is possible but can only be done via your native country, NOT anywhere else.

Your Local Thai embassy will require official proof you are retired early, have regular income etc and if properly documented they will require a legally translated copy (They will tell you where to get it) and issue a visum. It will obviously not allow you to work... Please donot ask any more details , ask your local Thai embassy in your country....

[tracer]

And as someone else pointed out, £1000 every 15 months for a trip to the uk for a 1 year visa is expensive and a complete waste of a week.

Well, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, that is exactly why the process "may" be heading toward forcing people to return to their home country to apply for a visa. The more costly and inconvenient it is for people to renew and return, the less will do so. And it can happen overnight; just order the Thai Consulates in SEA to grant a maximum of 3 tourist visas in a calendar year, or whatever. That means less pesky foreigners hanging out in the Kingdom for long periods of time, causing all the problems and social disruptions that they are allegedly causing.

It is obvious that some Thais, and some falang who hang out on this board take great offense at the idea of "resident tourists" or whatever we want to call them. However, reading these threads for months, I have never seen anything to convince me that these people are in anyway a threat to anybody, let alone the Kingdom of Thailand. As to this overblown bugaboo of not paying taxes, I am sure that people picking up some pitiful pocket change working part time, under the table, would not object to paying taxes if there was some mechanism for doing so.

Aloha,

Rex

Thats exactly whats causing the problem and likely most farangs wouldnt mind if those guys had the same overheads as the ones working legally.

We have enough headache with Thais not paying all those extra charges to get another load from illegally working hippies... PLUS that most of these changes announced hit the legal employed ones more then the illegal ones...