Israeli forces kill 16 Palestinians in Gaza border protests - Gaza medics

[dexterm]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I did not sweep anything under any carpet. Addressed the very same nonsense on a previous post.

 

Assessments and warning that things could go south were aired long ago, since talk of the mass protests started. And to head off the usual comments - such comments were made both by Israeli and Palestinians (including the organizers). It was pretty obvious to anyone familiar with those involved and how such things go, that things would deteriorate quite quickly - hence, predicting casualties is neither surprising nor sinister. It's just a realistic take on how these things go.

 

That the IDF deployed extra troops, and specialized forces (like snipers) is pretty much what's expected. The point of having snipers, rather than regular troops is to decrease situations in which improperly armed and trained soldiers face protestors. There would have probably been more bloodshed otherwise.

 

And, of course, there was no claim that the Palestinian casualties weren't caused by the IDF - so sweeping under the carpet how? What are you on about there? As for the psychological assessment you toss in, I'd rather rely or more hinged opinions.

 

In all your many vehement posts, you still haven't found the time to explain how such protests are to be handled? That is, leaving aside your political rants, which regardless of their lack of merit aren't relevant to dealing with current, ongoing events. In practical terms, rather than soap box nonsense - what's the IDF's alternative? Let Palestinians storm the fence? Not return fire when shot at? Wait until a mass of protestors is already at the fence or over it and then open fire? Do tell.

Israel always always reacts with OTT heavy handedness, as though they want to provoke more instability to justify their paranoia. Israel has a massive arsenal of non lethal crowd control...hell...they've made an industry out of it and export worldwide.

 

Shouldn't Israel try some detente for a change, so that these demonstrations aren't necessary...might give Israel a spot of good PR for a change too. 11 years of blockade forcing Gazans into a ghetto with sub human conditions. How about improving Gazans' lives by slowly lifting the blockade. When people are allowed to live decent lives they have no need to demonstrate. 

 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, dexterm said:

So you are saying that other countries took decades/centuries to apologize for their mistreatment, dispossession and heinous crimes against indigenous peoples, so lets allow Israel the same latitude..unbelievably pathetic excuse!

 

Surely Israel should have learnt something from other colonial powers' mistakes.

 

One day there will be a truth and reconciliation tribunal in Israel and today's events will be part of it.

 

No, that's what you're saying I'm saying. Hardly the same thing.

 

You claimed other countries apologize for past misdeeds. I'm pointing out that countries do that when they feel secure enough that the acknowledgement of such things would not constitute a threat to their existence. It is not an "excuse", but rather how things are. That you refuse to accept it and keep making misleading statements is regrettable, but also immaterial. There is no particular reason given as to why Israel is to be held to a different standard or expected to act otherwise. And once more, you can try (and you will, no doubt) push the "colonial" hashtag all you like - it will not make Israel's case similar to others.

 

It seems that some posters expect some winning pseudo legal/moral/historical argument that would, by the force of its merit, compel both Israel and the World to accept their point of view. Sorry to burst that bubble - doesn't work this way.

 

If there will be, some day, a "peace and reconciliation" thing, it will include wrongdoing from both sides, not just one of them. That you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that indicates that your interests lies in winning, revenge and one-sided "justice" following your own extreme views. Your message is neither about peace, nor reconciliation.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Israel live in  a tough back yard!
ITS a shame its not their backyard!!!!!!!
 
Animals!

Actually it is and the sooner that more of her neighbors accept that the better.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dexterm]

51 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The statements of Hamas leaders during the current protests refer to the Palestinians returning to lands which are Israel. If your post is about Israel allowing this to happen - very doubtful. Countries do not choose outright suicide, most times. What you seem to be saying is that if the Palestinians would get everything that they want, they will have no more legitimate complaints. Problem is that granting all Palestinian demands implies no Israel. 

Well that's the dilemma that you and Israel must face. You can't have a modern civilized democracy and a state with preferential treatment solely for the minority religion.

 

No doubt folks in the south after Jim Crow and white South Africans after 94 bemoaned change. Life just aint going to be the same no more.

 

Deal with it. 

Work out a just peace agreement for 2 viable state where Israel could retain some of its predominantly Jewish character, or work out mechanisms for a peaceful gradual transition to one man one vote in one state.

Otherwise today's events will simply repeat themselves or escalate.

[poohy]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Actually it is and the sooner that more of her neighbors accept that the better.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sort of depends who you are talking too!

Apart from jews and the American Israeli lobby most normal educated people are against Israeli expansion.

 

You would not be popular voicing your opinion in UK for example 

[dexterm]

20 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, that's what you're saying I'm saying. Hardly the same thing.

 

You claimed other countries apologize for past misdeeds. I'm pointing out that countries do that when they feel secure enough that the acknowledgement of such things would not constitute a threat to their existence. It is not an "excuse", but rather how things are. That you refuse to accept it and keep making misleading statements is regrettable, but also immaterial. There is no particular reason given as to why Israel is to be held to a different standard or expected to act otherwise. And once more, you can try (and you will, no doubt) push the "colonial" hashtag all you like - it will not make Israel's case similar to others.

 

It seems that some posters expect some winning pseudo legal/moral/historical argument that would, by the force of its merit, compel both Israel and the World to accept their point of view. Sorry to burst that bubble - doesn't work this way.

 

If there will be, some day, a "peace and reconciliation" thing, it will include wrongdoing from both sides, not just one of them. That you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that indicates that your interests lies in winning, revenge and one-sided "justice" following your own extreme views. Your message is neither about peace, nor reconciliation.

 

 

>>If there will be, some day, a "peace and reconciliation" thing, it will include wrongdoing from both sides, not just one of them.

...Oh yes. I do agree. It's the only way to heal the bitterness.

 

You're saying the only reason Israel perpetrates atrocities such as today's, and maintains an illegal occupation, but can't bring itself to say sorry is because it doesn't feel secure enough to do so. Knows what it is doing is wrong but has to wait a few more decades like other countries until presumably it feels it has succeeded into grinding the Palestinians into complete submission, then it can feel magnanimous enough to say sorry. Ridiculous.

Edited March 31, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Israel built a great country by using the free land they confiscated from Palestinian owners while ethnically cleansing most of them into Gaza and the West Bank. Now they want even more free land..but that's another story

 

The Palestinians were attempting to do something about it today, but you see it is the supremacist Israelis who have all the guns and planes and the ability to blockade and control every facet of Palestinian lives. Makes it kinda hard to get out of the pit.

 

More misleading wide-brush nonsense. Hardly all of Israel's land was "confiscated" from the Palestinians. And Israel did not "ethnically cleanse" all them Palestinians. Israel was founded according to a UN resolution, which you apparently accept and reject according to the "argument" pushed. Israel did conquer territories allocated to the Palestinians, but leaving it at that, without the context of Arab/Palestinian attitudes toward peace making post-war is simply dishonest.

 

Alleging or implying all Palestinian refugees were directly Israel's doing is, again, your version rather than fact. Many did run away in the believe that they'll be able to return after the victory (which failed to materialize). Some did so on the force of their leaders statements.

 

The land gained was not "free" - wars cost resources and blood. Guess you've never been anywhere near one.

 

The Palestinians in Gaza are not attempting to do something about it. It's a protest. If any of them protestors believes his leaders' fiery statements (which you echo) about breaching the fence and heading back to his ancestors village - he ought to be smarter about politicians as he's in for a rude awakening. Obviously, Hamas leaders spewing this talk are not at the forefront....and the same goes for you.

 

The blockade is in place mainly due to Hamas agenda, policies and actions. It was always there. It doesn't even have to be as restrictive, provided Hamas would agree to oversight. Other aspects of hardship in the Gaza Strip relate to the internal rift between Palestinian factions - which you'll have little to say about. Oh yeah, Egypt. Egypt could make the blockade void and null, but it doesn't. Guess they have a different take than yours.

 

[Jingthing]

Sort of depends who you are talking too!
Apart from jews and the American Israeli lobby most normal educated people are against Israeli expansion.
 
You would not be popular voicing your opinion in UK for example 

Bait not taken.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Israel always always reacts with OTT heavy handedness, as though they want to provoke more instability to justify their paranoia. Israel has a massive arsenal of non lethal crowd control...hell...they've made an industry out of it and export worldwide.

 

Shouldn't Israel try some detente for a change, so that these demonstrations aren't necessary...might give Israel a spot of good PR for a change too. 11 years of blockade forcing Gazans into a ghetto with sub human conditions. How about improving Gazans' lives by slowly lifting the blockade. When people are allowed to live decent lives they have no need to demonstrate. 

 

 

Let me point out again that there's an inconsistency between your claims to be informed and some of the claims you repeat. Pick any neighboring country to Israel - and each got a handful of truly "overhanded reactions", putting Israel's in their proper place - hardly the worst. There was another example made earlier mentioning casualty toll handling riots in the US. Guess skipped your attention. You're just playing the same games again, setting up irrelevant standards, and exaggerating Israel's supposed "heavy handedness" - with the usual allegation (based on...?) of sinister, nefarious plans.

 

If anything, the provocation here is from the Palestinian side. Even organizers commented that they hope to avoid that - but acknowledged they have no control over it (or over Hamas/Islamic Jihad etc actions), and it's probable that things would go this way.

 

Every casualty serves the agendas of extremists - Israel's right wing (as opposed to your wide-brush generalization), the Hamas, people holding views such as yours - all get something out of it. Going on about how Israel gains, and ignoring that other angle is dishonest, and rather makes the point. 

 

There were non-lethal crowd control means deployed and used. You conveniently ignore the past two weeks seeing two attacks on IDF soldiers, a bomb planted on the fence, and a couple of incidents were Palestinians breached the fence and made it into Israel. Tension was building up, not as if nothing preceded this protest. And you continually ignore that there was also an attack (possibly two, unless names of places were mixed up in Arabic) on IDF soldiers during the protest (acknowledged by the Palestinians, save your denials).

 

Other than saying using non-lethal weapons (which were used), there's little insight offered. And back to the political waffling...

 

A "detente" with whom? Or rather, why don't you expect the Hamas & Co. to come forward and initiate this? And what would that have to do with the Land day/Nakba Day protests? A "detente" would make them "unnecessary"? Thought them protests were about the supposed right of return?

 

The blockade is there for a reason. It has to do with the Hamas agenda, policies and actions. You don't want to acknowledge that, fine. Just stop the waffle about one-sided "detentes". How about Hamas accepting international oversight on goods entering the Strip? How about Hamas accepting the PA's rule (including handing over weapons)?

 

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Well that's the dilemma that you and Israel must face. You can't have a modern civilized democracy and a state with preferential treatment solely for the minority religion.

 

No doubt folks in the south after Jim Crow and white South Africans after 94 bemoaned change. Life just aint going to be the same no more.

 

Deal with it. 

Work out a just peace agreement for 2 viable state where Israel could retain some of its predominantly Jewish character, or work out mechanisms for a peaceful gradual transition to one man one vote in one state.

Otherwise today's events will simply repeat themselves or escalate.

 

I do not have to face anything, thanks. And I don't have to accept your misleading nonsense either.

 

Peace is not just up to Israel, no matter how you try to present it as such. And despite your efforts, the Palestinians fail to live up to the ready and willing marketing pitch. They can't even settle things peacefully among themselves. It is not simply a matter of Israel making peace, but of having someone credible to make peace with.

 

That today's events will repeat themselves was promised by Hamas leaders earlier. Try to keep up. Like some posters they don't care all that much for the casualties, other than them being in supposed service to the "cause".

 

 

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>If there will be, some day, a "peace and reconciliation" thing, it will include wrongdoing from both sides, not just one of them.

...Oh yes. I do agree. It's the only way to heal the bitterness.

 

You're saying the only reason Israel perpetrates atrocities such as today's, and maintains an illegal occupation, but can't bring itself to say sorry is because it doesn't feel secure enough to do so. Knows what it is doing is wrong but has to wait a few more decades like other countries until presumably it feels it has succeeded into grinding the Palestinians into complete submission, then it can feel magnanimous enough to say sorry. Ridiculous.

 

And as said, voices such as yours won't be part of any such "peace and reconciliation". Please save me the waffle about supposedly agreeing with me - nothing in your posts, ever, indicates any acceptance whatsoever of Palestinian accountability or responsibility for wrongdoings. That is, on them rare occasions when you slip and accept something done by Palestinians as wrongdoing.

 

Again, I'm not saying, you're saying I'm saying. If twisting my words is all you've got, guess pretty desperate times. Anyway...I was commenting on other examples, and presenting a pattern. You choose to avoid acknowledging that such a pattern does exist, and instead focus on Israel this and Israel that. I think most countries do not have a plan as to if or when things will be acknowledged, rather a process and factors adding up. Nothing to do with the simplistic version you put up. As for "ridiculous" - about as strong a nothing argument as expected.

 

[dexterm]

22 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And as said, voices such as yours won't be part of any such "peace and reconciliation". Please save me the waffle about supposedly agreeing with me - nothing in your posts, ever, indicates any acceptance whatsoever of Palestinian accountability or responsibility for wrongdoings. That is, on them rare occasions when you slip and accept something done by Palestinians as wrongdoing.

 

Again, I'm not saying, you're saying I'm saying. If twisting my words is all you've got, guess pretty desperate times. Anyway...I was commenting on other examples, and presenting a pattern. You choose to avoid acknowledging that such a pattern does exist, and instead focus on Israel this and Israel that. I think most countries do not have a plan as to if or when things will be acknowledged, rather a process and factors adding up. Nothing to do with the simplistic version you put up. As for "ridiculous" - about as strong a nothing argument as expected.

 

>>And as said, voices such as yours won't be part of any such "peace and reconciliation". 

You're the one who lives there. Your future, not mine.

 

Not necessarily agreeing with you. Just correcting one of your mind reading false accusations.

Whenever you get caught out, you always excuse yourself with the lame "twisting my words" I quote them for all to read. 

You admit that atrocities such as todays will be acknowledged one day; just a matter of timing...how cynical.

 

Meanwhile Israel digs itself a deeper hole in world opinion. Perhaps today was the Palestinians' Sharpville. Time and increasing global awareness is on their side. 

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

More misleading wide-brush nonsense. Hardly all of Israel's land was "confiscated" from the Palestinians. And Israel did not "ethnically cleanse" all them Palestinians. Israel was founded according to a UN resolution, which you apparently accept and reject according to the "argument" pushed. Israel did conquer territories allocated to the Palestinians, but leaving it at that, without the context of Arab/Palestinian attitudes toward peace making post-war is simply dishonest.

 

Alleging or implying all Palestinian refugees were directly Israel's doing is, again, your version rather than fact. Many did run away in the believe that they'll be able to return after the victory (which failed to materialize). Some did so on the force of their leaders statements.

 

The land gained was not "free" - wars cost resources and blood. Guess you've never been anywhere near one.

 

The Palestinians in Gaza are not attempting to do something about it. It's a protest. If any of them protestors believes his leaders' fiery statements (which you echo) about breaching the fence and heading back to his ancestors village - he ought to be smarter about politicians as he's in for a rude awakening. Obviously, Hamas leaders spewing this talk are not at the forefront....and the same goes for you.

 

The blockade is in place mainly due to Hamas agenda, policies and actions. It was always there. It doesn't even have to be as restrictive, provided Hamas would agree to oversight. Other aspects of hardship in the Gaza Strip relate to the internal rift between Palestinian factions - which you'll have little to say about. Oh yeah, Egypt. Egypt could make the blockade void and null, but it doesn't. Guess they have a different take than yours.

 

Please note that you are the one introducing events of 70 years ago. But no doubt you will ultimately whine off topic.

In 1945 Jews owned 6% of the land but two years later were awarded 56% of the land by foreign governments who had no right to give away Palestinian land. In the ethnic cleansing of 47-48 Jews grabbed even more and again in 67. Until today Palestinians control 0% of their own land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#British_censuses_and_estimations

 

Go figure who the thieves are.

 

That's what todays protest was about. Palestinians want to go back to their homes, farms and villages that have been stolen.

In times of war people flee to safety...and often they are pushed. Whether Israel committed war crimes then is irrelevent.

But the fact that Israel will not allow back refugees today is without doubt a war crime.
You call it national suicide, upsetting the demographics...I call it dismantling the apartheid regime.

[Morch]

20 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>And as said, voices such as yours won't be part of any such "peace and reconciliation". 

You're the one who lives there. Your future, not mine.

 

Not necessarily agreeing with you. Just correcting one of your mind reading false accusations.

Whenever you get caught out, you always excuse yourself with the lame "twisting my words" I quote them for all to read. 

You admit that atrocities such as todays will be acknowledged one day; just a matter of timing...how cynical.

 

Meanwhile Israel digs itself a deeper hole in world opinion. Perhaps today was the Palestinians' Sharpville. Time and increasing global awareness is on their side. 

 

I live in Thailand, sunshine. And I'm not the one pushing a hateful, vehement one-sided agenda. As said, voices such as yours are not helpful with regard to any prospect of "peace and reconciliation".

 

As for the rest - what did you agree with, then? I said both sides wrongdoing will need to be addressed. You are the one refusing to acknowledge one of the side's wrongdoings. Twisting words is an integral part of your posting style, that's not an excuse, plain reality.

 

No, I do not "admit" any of your assumed nonsense. And I did not dub today's events as "atrocities", you did - thereby demeaning the term. If there comes a time of such "peace and reconciliation" process, then it will not be about your style of one-sided "admits", and hyperbole "atrocities".

 

As said earlier, you keep going on about world opinion. Been years of posting now. Still no significant change, other than previously, even milder events would raise harsher international reactions. That's a fact. If time is on the Palestinian side, why are they in such a frenzy to "do something about it" as you put it earlier, what's urgent about dying for a cause which will be achieved anyway - I know, shouldn't expect coherence.

 

The Palestinians will not simply get a country through international intervention, or through Israel coming about to the Palestinian point of view. And they will not win it by violence. The only way forward for them is to change mode and embrace a compromise.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Please note that you are the one introducing events of 70 years ago. But no doubt you will ultimately whine off topic.

In 1945 Jews owned 6% of the land but two years later were awarded 56% of the land by foreign governments who had no right to give away Palestinian land. In the ethnic cleansing of 47-48 Jews grabbed even more and again in 67. Until today Palestinians control 0% of their own land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#British_censuses_and_estimations

 

Go figure who the thieves are.

 

That's what todays protest was about. Palestinians want to go back to their homes, farms and villages that have been stolen.

In times of war people flee to safety...and often they are pushed. Whether Israel committed war crimes then is irrelevent.

But the fact that Israel will not allow back refugees today is without doubt a war crime.
You call it national suicide, upsetting the demographics...I call it dismantling the apartheid regime.

 

I'm introducing....? Do you even pay attention to what you post? Here is the bit from the post I replied to, in case your memory failed:

 

Quote

Israel built a great country by using the free land they confiscated from Palestinian owners while ethnically cleansing most of them into Gaza and the West Bank.

 

So, rather, it was you going on about supposed past events, not me "introducing" them. And then you whine when it's pointed out you're twisting words, heh. That it is off topic is a fact....like most of your posts.

 

As pointed out previously, you embrace or reject UN resolutions according to whatever argument is pushed. The would be Palestinian State was part of the same UN resolution as Israel. You cannot accept one but not the other. That you go on about "peace and reconciliation" and yet spew so many posts denouncing Israel's very right to exist is hypocritical, at best. The land was not stolen, even if you whine about "thieves" to kingdom come.

 

A couple of other corrections to your standard issue drivel - the UN resolution handed Israel  a whole lot of land which was arid and sparsely populated or cultivated, that accounts for quite a bit of the percentage there. And as for the Palestinians currently controlling 0% of their land - that's one way of looking at it. Another would be to accept that Palestinian never had a land (as a nation). The Palestinians (and their Arab sponsors) rejected the UN resolution, and rejected peace with Israel for decades afterwards (and partly so to this day). In fact, the current Palestinian control is the most they've ever had. Try another spin, do.

 

So today's protest was about Palestinian lands. But just a few posts earlier your opined that a "detente" and some improvement in their living conditions would make such protest unnecessary. Which is it, then? Is this a principled stand? Or one conditioned on convenience? Or perhaps that whole "detente" waffle was just that - waffle. Coherence ain't a bad word, you know.

 

Your opinion is that Israel commits a war crime by not letting the Palestinians return. Most people do not realistically expect Israel to let millions of hostile Palestinians in, and frankly not even millions of non-hostile Palestinians.There are various ways to resolve such issues, not necessarily following your script or interpretation. You can make up whatever name you like for it - but it won't change reality. Nor would it be correct. Tossing about hyperbole and vehemence is nothing new when it comes to your posts.

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Morch

[Judo Chop]

Imagine if the people who care so much for the Palestinians demanded that the PLO and HAMAS built hospitals, schools, universities, public housing etc with all that aid money, rather than using it to build terror tunnels & pay terrorist stipends?

That would make all Palestinians better off but the name of the game is to demonize Israel. The Palestinians are merely pawns to their supporters.

[JimmyTheMook]

14 minutes ago, Judo Chop said:

Imagine if the people who care so much for the Palestinians demanded that the PLO and HAMAS built hospitals, schools, universities, public housing etc with all that aid money, rather than using it to build terror tunnels & pay terrorist stipends?

That would make all Palestinians better off but the name of the game is to demonize Israel. The Palestinians are merely pawns to their supporters.

 

But internet keyboard warriors like  

dexterm are too blinded by their own

ignorance and hatred to see this.

 

 

 

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Judo Chop said:

Imagine if the people who care so much for the Palestinians demanded that the PLO and HAMAS built hospitals, schools, universities, public housing etc with all that aid money, rather than using it to build terror tunnels & pay terrorist stipends?

That would make all Palestinians better off but the name of the game is to demonize Israel. The Palestinians are merely pawns to their supporters.

Yes, HAMAS and PLA have been proven to be corrupt, but not the only side of the story. e.g.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/38878311/gaza-hospitals-clinics-to-reopen-after-emirati-grant-who/

 

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=773994

[simple1]

13 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

May I direct your attention to the past history of such attacks: the attackers have a strong likelihood of going kaboom. It's why the Israeli border crossings are  constructed as they are. In Syria and Iraq it is a regular occurrence  to have suicide bombers.  remember that the Israeli fence is constructed on Israeli territory. The attackers were in the no man's land and on Israeli  territory when the defensive measures were employed.

I have yet to see a media report addressing the killings and huge level of gunshot injuries (now reported at 773) referencing "No Man's Land". As far as I'm aware no mention of suicide bombers ever attacking border fences, nor that those injured or killed had entered Israeli territory. Am I incorrect?

[Judo Chop]

40 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Yes, HAMAS and PLA have been proven to be corrupt, but not the only side of the story. e.g.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/38878311/gaza-hospitals-clinics-to-reopen-after-emirati-grant-who/

 

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=773994

The 2nd link you posted claims that Hamas will open 17 new schools this year. They announced it last year.  So can you tell me how many of those 17 schools have actually been opened?

[Judo Chop]

1 hour ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

But internet keyboard warriors like  

dexterm are too blinded by their own

ignorance and hatred to see this.

 

 

True. People like that manage to watch videos like this http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-31/protests-in-gaza-leave-at-least-15-dead/9606688

and somehow claim after seeing the footage, that the Palestinians were unarmed and innocent or better, they were simply picking parsley from the field. Delusional and liar are two words that spring to mind.

 

 

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Judo Chop said:

Imagine if the people who care so much for the Palestinians demanded that the PLO and HAMAS built hospitals, schools, universities, public housing etc with all that aid money, rather than using it to build terror tunnels & pay terrorist stipends?

That would make all Palestinians better off but the name of the game is to demonize Israel. The Palestinians are merely pawns to their supporters.

 

Anti-Palestinian dog whistle.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Judo Chop said:

The 2nd link you posted claims that Hamas will open 17 new schools this year. They announced it last year.  So can you tell me how many of those 17 schools have actually been opened?

No, can you?

[Morch]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Yes, HAMAS and PLA have been proven to be corrupt, but not the only side of the story. e.g.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/38878311/gaza-hospitals-clinics-to-reopen-after-emirati-grant-who/

 

https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=773994

 

No, that's actually the exact same "story". Just worse than posters realize or are willing to acknowledge.

 

The Gaza Strip energy crisis is mostly about power struggles between Hamas the the Fatah (or put another way, the PA). The lion's share of the responsibility for causing this "crisis" lies with Hamas, whereas the PA's part is more to do with exploiting the situation in order to advance political goals.

 

As for construction materials for schools and such - consider how much of these goes into building Hamas tunnels, and how many of these are used to public benefit. And once more, it is Hamas who either rejects oversight - which would have sorted this long ago.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, that's actually the exact same "story". Just worse than posters realize or are willing to acknowledge.

 

The Gaza Strip energy crisis is mostly about power struggles between Hamas the the Fatah (or put another way, the PA). The lion's share of the responsibility for causing this "crisis" lies with Hamas, whereas the PA's part is more to do with exploiting the situation in order to advance political goals.

 

As for construction materials for schools and such - consider how much of these goes into building Hamas tunnels, and how many of these are used to public benefit. And once more, it is Hamas who either rejects oversight - which would have sorted this long ago.

Expected you would respond - thanks for clarification

[Morch]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

I have yet to see a media report addressing the killings and huge level of gunshot injuries (now reported at 773) referencing "No Man's Land". As far as I'm aware no mention of suicide bombers ever attacking border fences, nor that those injured or killed had entered Israeli territory. Am I incorrect?

 

Each and every ceasefire and de-facto agreement between Israel and the Hamas (usually mediated by Egypt), includes a bit about an exclusion zone along the fence. Width of the zone varied and varies, but it is hardly a secret and it is not as if Gaza residents are not well aware of it. This was even referenced by the organizers of the protest.

 

There was a bomb attached to the fence about a couple of weeks ago, possibly planted there during another instance of protests. I think two IDF officers injured. Suicide bombing requires proximity to would be victims, so more of a check point sort of thing. That said, if the fence was breached, a whole lot could happen.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Anti-Palestinian dog whistle.

 

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Another anti-Palestinian dog whistle.

 

Neither is. The complaint is not directed at the Palestinian people, but at their leaderships. To deny that these are corrupt, or that they prefer their ideology over the welfare of the citizens is true.

[Morch]

42 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Unsourced. Well photoshopped...the 2nd pic showing a man in standard IDF uniform but with an Arab name underneath.

Desperate damage control.

 

Only if you ignore that the Hamas already officially acknowledged 5 of its military wing operatives killed. The pic linked is (I think) from the IDF spokesperson page. Do talk about damage control....or perhaps pay attention to what even the side you "support" accepts.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Morch

[ezzra]

24 hours later of this discussions and not of the pro Arabs/Palestinians has any solutions as to what Israel suppose to do in order to give the palestinians what they want...

Should Israel just pack up and go back to the nazi ghettos, should they just drive themselves to the sea and die? because it seems that nothing short of the above will appease the palestinians and many millions of Israel/Jews haters ( not to mention a number of very vocal and passionate members to the palestinian cause of this forum )

Anyone with a workable solution that will see the state of israel living within its sovereign and secure borders? anyone?... No? didn't think so...

Edited April 1, 2018 by ezzra

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed.